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From my other threads here, i was gonna throw a cam and AFR heads on my stock L98 shortblock but decided against that.
I'm gonna do a 383 build. heres what i have in mind. I may hold out and just get a Golen shortblock thats all forged to make it easier on me, but we will see. I never put a motor together so i dont want to screw anything up
What i'm planning is a fully forged 383, using either scat or eagle forged stuff, and Mahle or SRP or Wiseco pistons. Shooting for 11 to 1 compression with my AFR 195 65 cc heads, 0 deck and .040" gasket. So i will need about -5cc flattop.
Now what i'm trying to decide if i can get away with scat 4340 forged I beam rods with ARP 2000 7/16" rod bolts for my planned near 400whp and then MAYBE a 150 shot down the road on occassion. should be well over 500whp i HOPE.
I would think a cast crank is out of the question so if i go forged crank and pistons, why not go with a durable H beam rod? just another 300 bucks or so, but any money saved is used for other parts that i will need
Golen thinks i can get away with forged crank/ I beam 4340 rods/forged pistons for my goals. But i do plan to rev this thing up to around 6400-6500 rpms. I'm trying to get as much power as i can get out of this build to see the limits of a HSR intake.
The cam is gonna be a custom hydraulic roller from bret bauer. Already working on it. its gonna be high 230's duration at .050 with lift near .600" with a 1.6 rocker arm.
I dont think 400whp is out of the question but i have seen many combos that dont put out the numbers i would have expected...so i will be abit disappointed if it doesnt hit near that mark.
Car is gonna be wicked tho, at 3400lbs race weight, it should go well into the 11's on motor. I'm gonna need a roll bar and a 12 bolt i think
its probly gonna be a split pattern cam, and very similar to the 288hr. I'm gonna guess its 236/240 or 238/242. It may be on a tighter lsa tho, like a 109. Its similar to the fabled LE3 grind for LT1s but with abit less overlap due to the HSR longer runners.
me too man! i'll definately have to come down and see your car run too. I was hoping you will get it done before i do so i can see your numbers and get an idea of what to expect out of my build
with that rpm and power level I beam rods will probably be ok, I used to have stock gm rods, and they went 9's on a 150 shot, and i upped it to 225 on them, they were ok when i took them out, the failure wasnt the rods, it was the oil pump pickup ....get a bolt on one by the way. they did have arp rod bolts though. rod strength is also related to piston weight, heavy pistons and high rpms are rough on rods. I also have a 383 , strictly race engine, dyno numbers are depressing on it, but I have a scraped bumper to prove its running ok. it dynoed at 450 or so, and the shops air fuel sensor box took a crap....maybe it didnt like the leaded fuel lol
you'll get done before me....at least before i get the 288 installed....ive thought about ditching the 1.6's and going back to 1.5's....i mean what is the max that ppl saw with 1.6's?? i dunno..which do you think is easier to do? btw im seriously considering doing a true dual exhaust setup on the fireturd like nova's old setup or maybe 11secZ's (same thing just extended to two mufflers over the axle)
it dynoed at 450 or so, and the shops air fuel sensor box took a crap....maybe it didnt like the leaded fuel lol
big loose converter right? not locked i suppose? if my dyno numbers dont look good but i still run in the high 1-teens, i'll be happy. I want to be as fast as a C5 Z06 on motor, and a C6 Z06 on spray or close haha
Quote:
what are your exhaust plans?
no idea really. I think for now i'm gonna get longtube 1.75" primaries, and run a custom y pipe to my existing setup. Once i get the car tuned and dialed in, i'll consider a larger single exhaust or a true dual setup. I'm thinking true duals but i'll have to map it out to see how much room i have.
I already sold my hooker 2055's, so i'm forced to get longtubes now
I've HEARD that going to 1 3/4 vs 1 5/8 isnt much of a difference but hooker makes good headers.....they just arent in my budget (then again not much at this point is!)
would that be restrictive going from two 3" collectors to one 3" pipe? ::shrugs:: i still gotta find a place to do my true duals
no not that big at all...flashes to 5300 off the transbrake on nitrous lol. I really didnt go there for the h/p number, I wanted to get the jetting in the ball park, or atleast the state lol. got it sorta close before their o2 died. I knew it would be low, and also the dyno operators tend to alter the results, alot of them do it to make it look like their tunes are awesome, so I believe the track timers, not the dyno.
why, im spraying a 106 lsa....I thought about that when i had the cam made, but the cam guy said, untill you get over 250-300 hp of spray it isnt worth a nitrous grind. comp also agreed when i was shoping for a cam, but i didnt use comp since i didnt like the guy i was dealing with, clearly just reading the computer. where i got the cam I was dealing with a smaller company that is local to me, and i know his stuff is good, and it was actually cheeper than comp, even an off the shelf grind, but i definitly dont have one of those lol
On all the custom ground cams i've seen that also run 150 through it they've all been 112 lsa or so. With a small duration and something like a 106lsa most of the nitrous would just blow out the exhaust is how I've always been taught instead of maximize power on the bottle.
i thought about the tight lsa and spray theory...but for my planned 150 shot and MAYBE a 200 at most, i think i will be fine. there are many LT1 guys doing the same thing on 107 lsa cams. Those custom grinds can be made tight without having a lot of overlap. Whats funny is that ppl use the 230/244 on a 112 cc306 for nitrous thinking it will work fine and most times it does well. it has 74.5 degrees of overlap at the seat advertised numbers. A similar custom grind on a 230/234 duration and 107lsa will have 70.5 degrees of overlap, so its less than the other cam and should still work ok with nitrous. it has large duration but overlap of a smaller cam.
Comps 236/248 nitrous cam on a 113 has 75.5 degrees of overlap. the xe288hr is 236/242 on a 110 and has 71 degrees. All the nitrous grind is, is a cam with a wider exhaust duration on a lazier exhaust lobe which is used to help expel the extra exhaust gasses. 248 nitrous lobe is a 315 advertised, but the XE series its a 300. wider lsa is there to keep some of the overlap out i'm guessing.
But from what i'm hearing, alot of custom grinders are redesigning nitrous cams and using tighter lsa's and playing with lobe design to accomplish the same thing.
But i'll be running nitrous only a few times here and there, mainly at the strip. Basically 80% street n/a car and 20% nitrous....if that. probly closer to 90/10.
if your spending themoney for a fully fordged shortblock, why not make the best out ofit? get some of the bigger AFR heads, like 220 cc intake runners, little bigger cam, and plan on more nitrous, it wouldnt be much more money since u will have a shortblack that can handle it
true but i already have the heads so i'm building around that. plus the auto trans i have now has a mild peformance rebuild, and i dont want to abuse it.
I want more n/a ability than nitrous so i'm keeping compression high and running a smaller shot. it will accomplish the goals that i have now.
plus i dont want to go too radical with it, since i will be driving it alot. its not a race car, its a street strip car, but mostly "pleasure" street driving
I think later down the road i will get dished blower pistons for it and run BOOOST everything else i can reuse
From my other threads here, i was gonna throw a cam and AFR heads on my stock L98 shortblock but decided against that.
I'm gonna do a 383 build. heres what i have in mind. I may hold out and just get a Golen shortblock thats all forged to make it easier on me, but we will see. I never put a motor together so i dont want to screw anything up
What i'm planning is a fully forged 383, using either scat or eagle forged stuff, and Mahle or SRP or Wiseco pistons. Shooting for 11 to 1 compression with my AFR 195 65 cc heads, 0 deck and .040" gasket. So i will need about -5cc flattop.
Now what i'm trying to decide if i can get away with scat 4340 forged I beam rods with ARP 2000 7/16" rod bolts for my planned near 400whp and then MAYBE a 150 shot down the road on occassion. should be well over 500whp i HOPE.
I would think a cast crank is out of the question so if i go forged crank and pistons, why not go with a durable H beam rod? just another 300 bucks or so, but any money saved is used for other parts that i will need
Golen thinks i can get away with forged crank/ I beam 4340 rods/forged pistons for my goals. But i do plan to rev this thing up to around 6400-6500 rpms. I'm trying to get as much power as i can get out of this build to see the limits of a HSR intake.
The cam is gonna be a custom hydraulic roller from bret bauer. Already working on it. its gonna be high 230's duration at .050 with lift near .600" with a 1.6 rocker arm.
I dont think 400whp is out of the question but i have seen many combos that dont put out the numbers i would have expected...so i will be abit disappointed if it doesnt hit near that mark.
Car is gonna be wicked tho, at 3400lbs race weight, it should go well into the 11's on motor. I'm gonna need a roll bar and a 12 bolt i think
you should put in a 3.875 stroke in there instead of a 3.750 and build a 396 or what ever it comes out to and get you some AFR 210's and that thing would fly !
Glad to see someone doing a decent build-up with the new AFR eliminators.... They produce some very impressive numbers,and it would be nice to see some combo's using them...
Sounds like it should meet your goals with the right tuning......you went 12's with stock heads/cam....I think with traction/good tuning,easy mid 11's,and 10's with spray....
Getting a pre -built shortblock would save alot of hassle...and it would have a warranty(I hope)....
Good luck....do you have a timetable when you think the car will be ready to run?
"But i do plan to rev this thing up to around 6400-6500 rpms. I'm trying to get as much power as i can get out of this build to see the limits of a HSR intake."
This will be the bottle neck to you making big power. Specifically the intake manifold and the runners where they meet the intake manifold. You might want to take the time and have them opened up. I think you will have a nice reward power wise.
I do not know when the car will be able to run. I store the car for the winter and it doesnt legally come out til the first of march. it gets inspected in april but i get a hook up so it will pass everything i need
Soon as the car is out i will be tuning it, getting part throttle close, then giving it some break in time.... Then going to dyno tune it the best i can to see what she got and i hope she has plenty I just cant give you guys a time line of when the motor will be in or running but rest assured i'll have video and update posts as i go.
I have heard the HSR can handle 6500rpms and 400whp. I plan to push that limit I havent seen many numbers from others with power/rpms pushing the limits on HSR, so this will be fun and a good set of data. The only other car i know is making upwards of 400+whp is running a 383 with HSR and a lunati cam 232/242. I hope to match that. I think HSR can support it.
Now i cant decide if i want to run the manifold as is and then plan on porting it to see if i gain anything, or just port it out the best i can now. maybe even partially siamese it. Ill match the intake runners to the head runner ports the best i can tho for sure.
As far as the heads go, the 195 eliminators are the newest version of AFR's small block heads. they are greatly improved versions over the older style heads of years past. Lightweight LS1 style valvetrain and improved cnc'd port design. They should kick ***!
those new afr heads are sweet, the 195's flow just abot as good as the old 220's the new 215's flow better than the 220's so it isnt all volume of the port, it has a lot to do with port velocity. those valves are sweet also they flow better and are lighter than regular valves, and those springs also have good traits, so i think that they are good to go, just dont get cought up in that "well this guys engine does this so i should be that" stuff, some people know more tricks than you think about engine performance, but i kind of like that look people have when they look under the hood, its great they look for awhile and just walk away scratching their heads, usually saying to their pal, how the hell is that so fast? of course after i finish my fuel system they will be even more confused. last summer with a 355 I could hang with some of the bigblock cars, now several are complaining I am cheating and the race season hasnt started yet lol
i ordered some shims to shim up my springs but AFR said they will give me the good 8019 springs for 100 bucks. I may jump on that. My cam will need some pressure to control the lobes.
eh thats weak, only 750lbs open haha. with shims, i will have 156 seat 340 open, 360 spring rate. the upgraded springs are 155 seat 412 open, 428 spring rate... thats as stout as i've seen for a hydraulic roller.
now find out if the lifters will take the over the nose pressure.....I would still try them though, i dont tthink the shimmed springs will keep up at rpm
I plan on using LS7 lifters, they are good to 7000rpms using some aggressive lsx style cam lobes and high spring pressures. I can get them for cheap at my local lsx shop
I think the shimmed springs will handle the cam since it will give adequate pressure. AFR states they work well with aggressive lsx cams up to 6500-6600 rpms. I only plan to rev that high. probly more like 6400-6500. so i should be ok. But extra insurance is always a good thing
I'm told the springs I have are running 360# at full lift, .570ish. Comp 280xfi. I havent had any problems yet and no floating and its hit the limiter multiple times on the MSD thats beyond what you plan to shift at.
thats good to hear. I think the springs could handle it, my cam grinder thinks it is possible too. I gotta check the springs to see if they will handle the lift of the cam with the taller shim underneath. if not i will have to upgrade springs.
Ok wanted to update a few things... i got the cam yesterday and its abit different than what i was expecting. the LSA and lift is about right on what i was thinking he was gonna give me, but the duration is way off
turns out this cam is like a cc306 on steroids.
286/306 advertised, 230/245 at .050". small base circle ground on a 109 LSA, with .603/.613 lift with 1.6 rockers. I'm alittle shocked at only 230 degrees intake duration but more surprised about the exhaust duration split. I thought i'd be getting something in the 234-236 range on the intake with a much more aggressive lobe with less advertised duration. The wide exhaust duration split got me surprised. I got good heads and i thought it wouldnt need much split. It will love nitrous he says which is good since i will run it, but it wasnt designed as a nitrous cam, if their is such a thing.
I have upgraded my AFR springs to their upgrade package which is a dual spring 1.27 inch diameter, about 160lbs on the seat at 1.800" installed height. 412 open and rate of 428 lbs/in. These are the sprigns for aggressive cams like XFI's and such. Should be more than enough for this cam.
Gonna be running LS7 lifters so they will handle the stress and rpms. I dont think this cam will peak at 6400 like i wanted, but it should peak near 6000-6100 and flatline that power out to 6500 or so, which is great nonetheless. I like wide powerbands to play with. WE'll see if it makes my over 400whp goals or not.
You are going to need about 500hp at the motor to get 400rwhp with your combo. The heads will be capable of doing it. I think the cam should be up to the task. Be sure to get a good quality pushrod and rocker arm. I see the cam is from Bret. I would ask him for recommendations on the valve train.
Maybe you ought to consider having Golen leave the pistons .007" in the hole and use the GM .028" head gasket. That will give you a little more quench and help out some more on the 11:1 compression using pump gas. Your looking at 1.3 hp/ci so you will need every edge you can get.
Also your motor will be a prime candidate for an upgraded cold air intake system. I like the modified factory ones I have been seeing posted.
Then you will need a first class exhaust system. You also might have to port the HSR. I have never measured the runners on one. The cross sectional area should not be less than the pushrod pinch area of the heads. You want the heads to be the choke point. You do not want anything in the intake tract to be the choke point.
Last but not least make sure Golen degrees the cam if they are to install it.
yes, me and bret talked about the valvetrain and we are both happy with the AFR 8019 springs. he's used them in the past and they will work great. I got pro magnum rockers by comp so they are up to the task
I wanted a zero deck block and run standard .039" gasket but we will see what happens after i talk to them more.
I also considered modifying the factory air box or doing a cold air type setup. I may run the stock box to see how much it really restricts the motor, then change it out for something else at the track to see the didfference.
I do plan to mildly mod the HSR to better fit the heads and open up some tight spots.
Exhaust i plan to run longtube headers like hooker 2210's with 1 3/4 primaries and run a true dual 3inch system with an xpipe or 3 inch y pipe into a 4 inch single. Ultra flo mufflers or keep powersticks that i have now. Not sure yet. I like the true dual 3inch idea for more power down the road if i change the cam out And the nitrous should like the free flowing exhaust. Both systems would be more than enough tho for this build
Sounds like you have everything covered. When installing the headers and gaskets make sure nothing is over hanging into the exhaust ports. The new AFR heads seem to have an ever so slightly wider exhaust port than in the past.
yeah its a big wide port, almost like they rotated a proper shaped port 90 degrees. the dimensions are odd and most headers are taller than they are wide. I hope 1 3/4 longtubes from hooker or stainless works will cover the ports
From pics i've seen on this site, it will be close. I hope it is
I have been running a comp hydraulic roller in my 383 for 5 seasons. I had the motor in my 87 GTA for a very short time. Took it out and put it in a lightened 78 T/A. We ran the best of 6.87 in that car shifting a 6800 and traping around 7000. Took it out and put it in my 92 Grand Am. It runs 6.80s in the heat of the summer, high 6.60s 6.70 in good temps. That car weighs 2840 race weight. That's shifting at 6200 and trapping about the same. Going to a glide this year to get the motor back in the power range. I have been running comp lifters and springs for 5 years with no problems. That's with a cat cast crank,sir rods, 200 cc dart heads done by me. I don't spray it though. It has had 1 set of rings and 1 set of bearings in 5 years. 3 of those seasons the car was double hit, ran in pro and s/pro by 2 differant drivers. I was going to a 406 this year, but I want to see whay the 383 will do with a glide. One of my buddies has a 70 Chevelle, glass, 2600 race weight with a new set of afr heads. It ran 5.80s and did 4ft wheelies at the end of last season. My 383 with iron heads likes lots of timming, about 11/1 compression. Your 383 should run pretty good. I just didn't have the patients to do all that tunning with the injected car. Good luck on your build.
Looking good. Couple of thoughts come to mind. I have a Moroso 6qt oil pan but I'm only running 5 quarts total to help keep the oil away from the crankshaft. Also a good windage screen and a baffle at the rear of the pan to keep the oil from sloshing up under acceleration.
I went with the high pressure ZZ4 style oil pump. Heard to many things about the high volume. You should be able to make your horsepower goals. With your excellant exhaust system I'm still a little baffled on the big duration of the exhaust. Oh well Bret knows what he is doing. Good luck with your build.
i'm not 100% set on true duals but i'm more set on that than a single 4inch
Duration on the exhaust is a concern but from what i'm seeing, this wide seperation will allow me to have a long flat hp curve after peak, and wont hurt hp production. It should come in at 6000 rpms and hold that to 6500 before fading off. Its actually similar to road race grinds that i've seen, where you want a long flat powercurve so you dont have to shift as often. But its also gonna like the nitrous so thats good, cuz i will run nitrous more than likely
The canton road race pan is baffled, it has 3 chambers in the bottom sump to keep oil where it needs to be under all kinds of g-force accelerations both in drag racing and lateral loads in road race styles, which is what i want since this car is not just a drag car
What size gasket fits your afr heads? 1205 or 1206? If their 1205s the hsr will matchup pretty good. That's what I started with 6 years ago. What's the coil bind on your springs? Setting them up at 1.800, means they must not coil bind before 1.130. I had that problem with comp stuff when I built my engine. When I called comp and ordered my cam, lifters, and springs, they told me what they setup at. But didn't tell me what the springs coil binded at. When I set up the heads, I found I only had .0010 clearence. I had to buy the +.050 locks, which I didn't care for but they worked out ok. I bought the scat forged I beam rods with the 7/16 cap screw bolts for my next build. They look like a very good set. They are better than the sir rods I'm running now, and I turn it 6800 7000. Just did the pm on the engine this week. Rod bearings looked great, mains had a little wear. If you can tune, you WILL like the 383. I just didn't have the patientce. Took too much time for me. I'll stick will my holleys.
AFR isnt exactly a 1205 but its not a 1206 either. AFR says not to portmatch to a 1205 since the head port isnt quite 1205
i may not use a gasket and go with Right STuff again like i used with the L98. It worked well and i'm thinkin of doing it again.
The hsr ports line up ok. the head port is a tad wider and taller. I opened up the hsr alittle to match. I could go more to make it perfect but i stopped alittle short to leave material on the intake face to seal the head. The AFR port sits a tad higher too or else the hsr port sits alittle low. there is a slight step up going into the head. I dont like that but theres not much i can do.
My springs are spec'd to coil bind at 1.080" and i have the intake springs installed at 1.775" and the exhaust at 1.78". however i was told the actual coil bind height has been measure abit less than 1.080", so that gives me more clearance, but i have plenty reguardless.
I believe it's ok if the intake is a tad smaller. Unless you have room to open up the complete runner, to the head ports. You still drive this car on the street, right? Sounds like you have a pretty good combo.
yes its a street car, but getting more and more limited street time it sees about 4K miles a year, but now it probly will be lucky to see 3000.
I could possibly open up the whole runner but i dont feel like doing it. I already ported it out abit wider and taller, so i really gained some flow space there. I dont think it will really benefit me to go the whole way, but we'll see. I will always have that option if i'm looking for more power and such
its just that there will be very little surface left to seal to the head if i open it up more. Actually it worries me right now lol the HSR is a 1205 with no room to go anywhere else. very little room at the top of th eport to seal to the head.
"Actually it worries me right now lol the HSR is a 1205 with no room to go anywhere else." OOPS.
You do not want any of the HSR openings to the head to be larger than the head opening. Steps are a no-no.
The head opening needs to be wider or the same than the intake manifold runner on all sides at the mating area. If that is indeed the case maybe a call to AFR and see if some beveling is OK.
thats the thing, the HSR is abit smaller as far as height goes, but there is a TINY step up from the AFR port being a little taller (ie raised port) than the HSR port. Hsr port starts alittle lower than the AFR head port. I dont wanna grind the AFR heads. I dont think its a big deal, i'll have to get a pic to show you the difference. its not much but a tad of a step up
14psi, pump gas street tune 
mine really need control, 
