Hi guys, this is my first post over here. A group of my friends have decided to have a little contest over who can build the fastest drag car for $1500 total. Including the cost of the car, lol. Each group consists of 4 guys that will be working on the car. By the end of the summer which ever group has the fastest 1/4 time wins. We figured it would be somthing to do over the summer, instead of pissing away money at the bars every weekend. Plus it will be a great learning experience for all of us. And with a budget of $1500 split between 4 guys its affordable for almost anyone. Anyways, the main reason I bring up this topic to you guys is because my team has picked up a decent 85 Camaro w/ a carbed 305. The only thing missing is a trans, but we got it for $500. Which brings us to $1000 to spend on parts. The modification that my team all agrees on, is that we are going to spray as much N20 at the little 305 as it will handle. We already found a used plate kit with selinoids for $100. We are also thinking about finding a cheap used th350 and converter for the trans. Those are the only things we are pretty sure on. Obviously the car is going to get gutted to the max, for weight savings. So what do you think would get us the biggest gains for the cheapest, or even free?

The...


NITROUS!

next!

Ah, sounds like a fun project. Does it have to be street legal? Or can you tow it to the strip?

On this type of budget, the best thing is addition by subtraction. Rip out the interior, rip out the smog pump, and the air conditioner, take off the rear hatch (heavy) and even lights if you can. If it doesn't have to be street legal, just pull off the exhaust, find some cheap used headers, and run them just like that (exhaust on these cars is one of the most restrictive parts).

There's a ton you can do without spending a dime. Also patrol the boards for used parts. You can probably get scratch n dent parts pretty cheap.

Wow those were some fast responces. Sorry about the The.... I accidently hit reply with my laptop.
Anyways, the car doesn't have to be street legal, just pass tech at the track. What is the cheapest set of longtubes for 3rd gens. We will prob just weld some turndowns to the ends of the collectors, unless we can find some free bullet style mufflers.
What else wakes these little 305's up? I am big into the LSx f-bods, where you can toss a big cam in and gain 75 hp lol. How do these respond to cams? Also thought about getting the head shaved down to bump compression up a touch, and possibly hand porting the heads ourselves.

Power to weight. If you want a fast car you need lots of power in something that doesn't weigh very much. I wouldn't even consider using a third gen. Even stripped down, it's too heavy.

Go find an old Monza or Vega.

A $1500 budget won't get you much except a rust bucket that you can throw a NOS system on.

depends what his competition has, a thirdgen could be fun!

in that price range, they are all probably picking up cars from the 80's, and I'd rather have a 3rd gen than a crown vic or something like that from the 80's. I think the biggest challenge could be a mustang, but if that's the case, isn't what this is all about, f-body vs mustang? I wanna see the budget third gen smoke all.

The cheapest longtubes I'd run are headmans, they go for ~150 new. I've got a set on my car and they work great, I'm trapping 108-110 on motor.

Look up mw66nova, he has a 305 that runs GREAT on stock ported heads(cheap).

TH350 is the way to go for cheap.

Get some SLICKS!!!

Take the pistons out and open the gaps on the rings so you get more than 1 pass. Heck, you might get 3.

I'll see if I have anything worth selling cheap/donating to the cause. I dont think I do.

Maybe goto a U-Pick and see if you can find a 350 vortec out of a truck. Upgrade the cam, use a vortec intake and a used roller cam and you should be in business.

I'd say .045" should be good for a few passes.

Edit: Blazers/S10's have 3.73 and/or 4.10 gears in them, remembered that after the guy below me posted. I'd put in a mini-spool or weld the spider gears.

Make sure you post the big race on youtube so we can see that 305 try to chug down a 300shot! LoL
see if you can find an old lower geared rearend somewhere as the stock one might be kinda high.

Of course pass on all of the extra stuff, like gauges and such, alot of weight can be taken out, I know my car weighs 2900 down the track. Port the heads, 3 angle vj if it is in the budget, find a decent used intake and since $$ is an issue go with a summit cam, hedman LT's, and make sure to find a gear 3.73 seems to be the way to go 4.10's in these rear-ends tend not to last very long. But, then again....how many passes to you need to make???

Depending on how much sneeze you are pushing at it you should be good for some 12 second passes.

Like they said look at mw66nova's VB garage his 305 is a screaming NA low 12 second ride.

If you are looking for a set of pistons let me know, I have 6 KB domed pistons (.030) that I could get rid of for cheap. That way you would only need 2 new ones. I think with 58cc 305 heads they are close to 11:1 IIRC.

Good luck and keep us posted!

TH350, a 3500 or 4000 stall, some 3.73s, some slicks, and just a cheap single plane. Summit cams work pretty well, find a manual steering box out of an s10 too, then you'll be good to go! what do you think you'll be using for a carb?

sounds like we've narrowed it down for you buddy.
th350(light weight too!), long tubes,
stall, deep gears, good tires. LOSE THE WEIGHT!

It's really interesting to see everyone suggestions but he has set a budget of $1500 including the price of the car which he can get for $500. Suggesting all the machine shop work and new engine parts isn't likely going to be in the budget. Just new bearings, gaskets and rings will eat up a big chunk of that. $1000 isn't going to get you a whole lot of performance stuff.

I agree, as my post above mentions nothing about engine work. work with what you have, a good intake and carb to breathe in of coarse.
and of coarse, a nice cheap simple nitrous set.

Depending on where you are I've got a set of 28x9's that are WELL used, but, still hook up pretty well.

If the bearings look good, then why replace them? For some reason I don't think the pistons will last as long as the original bearings. The stock worn rings probably have a better gap for nitrous too.

I would really focus on the stuff you can do for almost free or free, its just labor intensive is all. You can even find "how to" instructions for everything so i would look up instructions on how to port and polish your heads, i seen an article in hot rod magazine that showed you how to do it exactly on 350 heads, and if you are mechanically inclined it shouldnt be a problem. I wouldnt try to do it myself on a high$$ set of heads, but in your case its perfect. Also I would search the junkyard maybe you can find a 400ci cheap or a 350 rocket and throw in a cam from a 454 and some #6 heads, or any old trick you can find. but before you do anything i would reallly make sure nobody is going to cheat like getting an edelbrock carb for free or using the 1500$ to make more money etc...

don't worry so much about making more power for right now. lets just optimize what you have to work with. take a look at my vB garage for sure, but there's so many things you can do to get it down the track quicker without spending much.

-SLICKS for sure...if you can't go with a taller gear initially, you could always go with a shorter tire. i know it'd look funny, but you need to get something on the car that will stick it to the ground, and if you need to go with a steeper gear ratio, then just go down in tire diameter. there is a definite downside to this though. the taller the rear tire, the more longitudinal tread patch is on the ground, which will help with traction more than a wider tire will.

-obviously weight loss, but don't forget about some of the simple things...like the front sway bar. ditch it. not only for the 15 or so pounds you'll loose off the front of the car, but also removing the sway bar will allow the front suspension to articulate, throwing the weight towards the back of the car

-doing those thing will allow you to get optimal traction. i hope you can find a good used th350 and a converter, cause it's gonna be important that you have a good converter. i slapped a bone stock 84 lg4 in my car one time and it had the old 700r4 in it with a 4000 stall ati and 4.10 gears, long tubes, dual exhaust and a couple of other little things...it KILLED stock and mildly bolt on 5.0 mustangs all day long...and still had the stock camshaft and 8.5:1 c/r...along with compression being down because of bad rings...90psi was the most it had in any given cylinder when we did a compression check

-ok...once you've got the car more optimized, then you can focus on your budget power plant. a camshaft from summit will come with lifter for ~$80. 214*224* @ .050, .442"/.465" on a 114lsa...pretty tame, but will LOVE n2o.
-you really don't need to do much to the cylinder heads, mine aren't ported, just have a back cut on the valves and have a mild bowl blend. cool thing is, since you have an 85 model, you already have 9.5:1 compression. if you put a .015" steel shim head gasket on it, you could bump that up to ~10.2:1 or so. that's right the verge of what you'd want for a budget build anyhow.

-for induction i'd look around to see if you can find a double pumper for cheap. a used performer rpm will get you everything you need as well. also, since it's not a street driver, lock the timing out.

-exhaust: hedman longtubes. look on the exhaust board for a post by Orr89Iroc entitled something like "exhaust suggestions for hot 383 build". there's SO much awesome information about exhaust theory and such. you can get GOBS more power out of a combo, just by making sure you have the proper amount of pipe after the headers for the combo than you could if you had just open headers.

i hope this helps. keep us update...i'm interested to see how you come along with this project.

I would have started with a 1st gen 79-85 RX-7. Very light. 2600lbs finished with V8 power.
Come with 3.91's factory and the rear end is relatively strong.
Easy to swap in a SBC/TH350. Many many of thee cars are sold off cheap when the rotary engine blows.
Near stock motor, possibley just a re ring and bearing job to freshen it.
A stock 350 with modified 305 heads or 350TPI (083) heads is fine.
Lots of options there. Home porting on the heads to open them up.
The compression ratio is not real critical, just stuff it with more nitrous.
Crane F-278-2 or Elgin #E-904-P solid nitrous cam+ solid lifters for a 305 Elgin cam # E-902-P for a 350, Lunati 73943 or Elgin RV1943X springs 750cfm carb, Vic Jr or PP Hurricane intake. Any 1-5/8" 1-3/4" long tube headers. Cut 'em up and reweld to fit. Open exhaust.
Junk yard th350 with a shift kit. minimum 3500 stall converter (10")
Fuel system: Ditch the stock gas tank. Install a small 2-3gallon fuel cell under hood.
This will allow you to buy and run small quanities of 110 or 116 octane racing fuel without having to fill the gas tank (much safer too.).
The motor should run off the stock type mech fuel pump fine. (3/8" plumbing)
A pair of cheap carter P4594 electric pumps and holley reg will feed the 400hp nitrous with 3/8" lines.

With a 350-400hp racer plate nitrous kit you should be able to produce 650hp minimum.
700hp is not out of the question.
That would get you 137MPH in a 2700lb RX7 Is high nines good enough?
A 9x 28" slick will fit these cars. the 3.91's are just right.
Lock out the distributor timing for around 20-24deg BTDC on the juice.
Use cold champion V57c plugs and a small cap style distributor with a CD spark box.

A low buck budget mail order house like www.starperf.com , summit, competition products etc is your friend. Anything you can buy good used cheap is a ++.
Use the budget house brand Renegade or Elgin oval track/bracket racer engine internal parts.
You'll need a custom built driveshaft and driveshaft safety loop and a roll bar/cage minimum to run at the track.
Even a 2nd gen 86-91 RX7 will do fine.
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/gallery.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/268.htm
Might give you some ideas.

Wow, you guys are awesome. I havent checked my post since last night and already 20 replies. Thanks a lot! All of the guys that will be working on this project are all pretty much gear heads and have been through a motor or two. Non of us have ever tried to port our own heads, but like somebody mentioned this is the perfect time to try. With stock 2.73's in the rear those have to go, like everyone in here agrees. I didn't know that some S-10's and blazers had 3.73's, but that will def. help us when we go out to a couple junk yards looking for parts. We also thought about just welding the spider gears to save money. We have a few friends that have 3rd gens that might have some parts laying around as well that we can use. But once the project really gets moving along, I will let you guys know what we are in need of. If you guys have anything you would like to donate to the project or sell cheap let me know. One major advantage that we have is that I am good friends with a guy who runs an engine building/machining shop, that would be willing to do some small work, like shaving the heads for close to nothing. The one major thing we have against us is that most of us in the group are familiar with fuel injected vehicles, so carbs. are going to be a learning process for us. So I might be doing a little more research before I decide on a carb, or just trying to rebuild the stocker. We will also probably try to find somone willing to donate some slicks that might still have a couple passes left in them. Also thought about boxing the lca's ourselves.
Once again I really appreciate all of your guys input and help in this. We will be sure to document the entire build, plus video the final race. I don't know for sure what the other team is using for their project vehicle (we have all been pretty secretive), but I am pretty sure it will be a Ford because most of the guys on that team are big Ford fans. This is all meant to be mostly in fun, and a learning experience for all of us. We are getting together tonight to meet with both teams and set up any guidelines/ rules, and them our team is going to get started on our major planning for the build. Ill keep you guys filled in with what we are planning. Thanks again

can you post pics of your secret ride?

this sounds like a really fun project, another guy on the boards here and i built a car for around 1000 bucks in the course of 2 days....it was nuts we started thursday afternoon and quit friday night, no sleep. it was a blast though

by the way i seen the article on how to port your heads about 4 years ago, using techniques from the article i applied them to a lawn mower at work that was broken lol, the thing ran good and seemed it little more beefier, most importantly it still works fine, a buddy of mine still works there and told me there hasnt been a problem with it since and still laughs at me about it to this day. but it was good practice.

You don't want turn-downs on the collectors. You want about 18" long open tubes.

One real quick question for you guys. We have been doing some research on converters that we might use for this project. I understand that the converter is not a good place to be cheap with, but with this low of a budget we need to find somthing as cheap as possible, yet still do a decent job. What kind of converters would you guys recomend looking into for this budget build?

a cheap one, high high stall.

I've got a 10" TCI(built by the same company according to my transmission guy) that flashes to 3800-4000 and generally stalls at 3500. It's worked great!

TH350 btw.

Best stall speed will depend on your camshaft advertised duration. Too high a stall can be just as bad as too low.

Be very careful if you're thinking used. Unless you know the guy, AND trust him. Red neck on ebay sells a very good converter for the money. I've been using them for a few years now, with no problems, I have 1.38 60s.

I agree, my brothers 79' has a ******* converter (4000) stall. Cuts 1.65 60's and hangs the wheels about 2" and keeps em there for 15 or so feet. If you call them and give them all the details, they can decide which stall would be best, and will build it for YOUR car.

So is the project still going where are you at with it now?

Yup the project is still on, and we are finally about to get working on this thing. The main problem we ran into was where we could work on the project and keep it stored. One of the members of my team has a garage that he offered for the build, but it was filled with junk. We got it cleaned and organized good enough for us to have adequate room to work. Our first intension is to strip the car down to the bare essentials and get an idea of how much the car will weigh. Then we will probably pull the engine and start doing any free things like hand port the heads. Then make a plan of attack on where we will spend the rest of our money. I have a feeling we will be visiting a few junk yards looking for parts. Anyways, I will definately post some pics up once we get some progress worth showing. We really appreciate everyones interest and help.

Im guessing somewhere in the high 2000's. Like around 2900 maybe, though I'm not the one to ask.


One thing i do know though, is if those other guys are ford guys, then i would bet money they'd go for a Fox body mustang. If this is true, then no matter what you do, you won't beat them with a weight advantage, your going to have to do it on power and traction. Those Fox bodies are just too light from the factory to play the weightloss game with.


edit: of course i still mean for you to save as much weight as possible. I'm just suggesting that you don't lay alot of hopes on beating them on the scales.

The biggest thing that you need to work out is to agree on a combination. A mild well matched combination will work better than one with some serious parts and even one mismatched part.

85 carbed 305… is it an LG4 or L69? There’s over a point difference in compression and what I would do would change depending on on which you have and what condition it’s in.

If it’s an L69 then I would try and see if I could find some cheap machine work and get the heads milled to raise compression some more, add in a home port job, swap in some cheap performance springs (you should be able to find something that will work up to .600” lift for $25-35 shopping around). Try to find some used 4.10-4.56 gears for it, if not check with northern or a few other parts suppliers, you can usually get “white box” richmonds for around $140, reuse bearings and shims unless they’re wasted, weld the spiders (If you can’t bring yourself to that check with the circle track guys, there are some cheap minispools out there). Cam selection would depend on what you were able to get for compression, more compression/more cam timing. Match the converter to the cam (I suspect you’ll be looking at something like a 3500-4200 or more stall TCI or so) and finish off the combination with tire height proportionate to the gear you ended up with. Headers and bit shot of spray, remove/cut off anything that is not used.

If it’s an LG4 I’d go completely differently. Again, home port the heads + cheap springs or if you can snag a set of decent 350 heads go there. Even reusing the stock heads with some fel pro gaskets will lower compression some. Summit has a cam in the 224/224/114 range, grab that, use a stock manifold on the driver’s side and a modified welded one on the passenger side. For ~$200 you can get a good size turbo on ebay, run the down pipe right through the battery tray out the fender in front of the tire. Small carb setup for blowthrough would work well. Large inline pump (can sometimes find them cheap, also check for mid 80’s ford injected cars and trucks or similar vintage Mercedes… in the jy). I’ve modified a ford turbocoupe regulator to work, but unless you have someone that knows what they’re doing one of the Mallory bypass regulators might be the way to go fairly cheap. Roughly 3K stall converter + th350. Keep the 2.73’s and weld the rear. 26x8 or so slicks… Instead of the turbo you can do the same basic combination with an eaton m90 off of a turbocoupe (should be able to find a useable one for $120-160) with brackets setup to hold it like an accessory

If you have anyone decent with fabrication to pull any of these off well your bigger problem will be that you should be going fast enough to need a rollbar at the track.

85 year model lg4's and l69's both got the 9.5:1 compression ratio. and both got the 416 casting cylinder heads, which is what i'm running on my 305.

good call on the 350 heads and boost though. an 8.5:1 motor with 8-10lbs could be cool!

i know you have a 1500 budget, but what if you sold some of the parts off the car so you would have some extra $$ to buy some more parts? you would still be within the 1500 range out of pocket... G-body malibus make great drag cars too...

good luck finding one of those in his price range...apparently they make good donk machines too

thought that craze was mainly just for A-Body and B-body cars

not around here...it sucks. they buy ALL the g-bodys up before the hotrod guys are able to get to 'em.

i say get a junkyard 350 carb it sell the 305 and all the parts that come off the car grab an s-10 rear and th350 then find used slicks and if you have money left get a nitrous kit

http://vettefbodyvideo.vidiac.com/se...7801204f36.htm

This is how I'd skin the cat.

thats how id skin it too, sell the 3rd gen, get a rx7, or a datsun 240/280 z and drop in a junkyard motor, hookup the spray, and lay waste to them


or u could do the turbo, look at my build, its simple, and u could lose the hood too, to save weight, lol

to do the turbo cheaper, use the manifolds, and a carter mechanical fuel pump, and dumpe the exhaust in front of the tire, no bov, and u could probably do it for under $300

hmm with 1000 to spend hers how id go about it

turbo headers 250$'s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...mZ150257312828
wastegate
60 $'s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/35MM-...QQcmdZViewItem
t4 50 trim turbo 50$;s as of right now 5 hours remaining
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT66-...QQcmdZViewItem
or a t70 (actually a 61 mm turbo) larger then the above turbo 250$'s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T-70-...QQcmdZViewItem


if u go for the t70(61mm) ur looking at a total of 560$'s,which if u poked around on ebay u could prolly knock 200$'s off of that
hell if u got that gt66(aka t4 50 trim) for 100$'s u already knocked 150$ off the total

no need for an intercooler and just use ex tubing for the charge pipes,and setup for a draw threw carb setup

Those generation rx7's have a multi-link(don't remember specifically) solid rear, they weigh about 2200lbs soaking wet with the rotary.


280z's are also a really good choice, I've seen them hang the front with stock suspension and slicks. They had to modify the way the diff mounts to make the half shafts live.

sounds like some good times....take off as much as possible...stereo, headliner,carpet, backseat, even frt passenger seat, windshield wiper fliud, windshield wipers and motors, tailights, power steering obviously spare tire and jack, heck if u had a support truck with jumper cables take out the battery u could even swap out the radiator with a small one out of a cavelier if u wanted...it only needs to live for 3 or 4 passes....heck take off the aircleaner, rear view mirror, take off the passenger mirror 2.

I hate to bump an old topic but how did this go?

yeh???