Well I broke the crank in my 383 right at the harmonic balancer, so now I am looking at building a new motor, and I just can not leave well enough alone so I have decided to go a little bigger and badder. I am shooting for a 10.50 in a NA small block Camaro. So I was wondering if some people could tell me about how they built their motors to get there. I am looking at a 434, it will probably have 12:1 compression and a solid roller cam with 215-230cc heads. I currently am running hooker 2210s. I will probably need some bigger primaries right? Do you think a 950 hp will be enough carb? Just kind of let me know what you think or how you built your car to run this fast.

hmm, so running a 383 with a 750 that ran 10.48 is a bad thing to mention...at 3300 lbs, and left some on the table, its geared for spray, and short shifted 1st.

What block are you looking at using? street car on pump gas or planning on better fuel?

build a 421. mild stroked 400. my buddies is in a chevy 2 nova with a powerglide. and 4.88 gears and 29" tires. running 10.00 and dead consistant. would be a ton faster if he would degree the cam and put a dominator carb on. its on a 950 now.

bart, what does the car weigh also?

I am not 100% sure of the weight, I would guess 3300. It still has interior but it will be going on a diet. I plan to use race fuel. It currently has a turbo 350 with a hughes 4000 stall that I would like to keep. I also do not want to run a trans-brake.
The 434 is probably going to be a little more motor than what I need, maybe I should stick with a 406 with 200 cc heads, then I could keep my carb(an aed hp 750) and headers. The cam I am looking at is a comp solid roller. it is a 12-900-9, it has 252 intake duration and 630 lift.

Well I 2nd the 421 build. I built one and let me tell you I couldnt be happier. I have a bowtie block, Lunati crank, Crower rods, Ross pistons 13.1 comp. Comp cam soild roller, Crower hippo lifters, AFR 227 heads, Jesel shaft rockers, bowtie intake. The first night out with the old converter built for the 355 and a borrowed 750 I went a 9.83 @ 137 MPH, with a 1.31 60 ft. I was shocked and very happy. I still need the right carb and the right converter. The converter that is in it is only a 3500. Th400 trans foot braking it. I have a 9 inch with 4.30 gears. The car is 3140lbs with me in it, has full interior except back seats and it does have those black plastic racing seats. It is tagged and I actually just got back from crusing around some.

87 TA went 10.8s on motor with a pretty mild 406 on pumpgas.

you take that motor, add abit more cam, better heads, and it may go 10.50's n/a. He was running old AFR 195's not the new eliminators which flow more

I'd run AFR 210's on a 12-12.5 to 1 sbc 406 if you use race gas, or 11 to 1 or so if you use 93 oct. Solid roller in the 250-260 range should do it for pump gas, go alittle bit more on race gas i would think

if that car is around 3400-3450 race weight then it should definately go mid 10's on motor.

I went with a 383 and nitrous and its capable of mid lower 10's in a proper geared/tranny car but i only hit 10.6 as it sits..its a street car tho

Thats a pretty sound combo there.

Thank you
I would agree, if for a street car I could not have been happier with my combo
just wish I had gone 210/220 heads as orr mentioned. Still pulled 20 mpg on the hwy without converter locking.
It was a cheap build to, with Scat cast crank and Cat rods all straight off ebay.. Is a standard 400 block with .007 core shift, it was all I had, it will puff a little smoke from time to time but never failed me yet..
Car ran a conservative 3.73 gear with 28" tall tires. Thinking of putting the 350 from my racecar in with transbrake, I think it will go 10.6s with that.

But if you can afford 421/434 - can't beat cubes! Maybe dart 227 heads, would be a fun car.

A nice 434 with afr 227 will do the trick. Don't forget to buy the Ed Quay 1 7/8's headers. They are not $1500 like most custom headers. I paid 650.00They fit great with a stock k member.(I have a tubular one now)

Thanks for your input guys. What I have noticed through your replies and looking through the dragtimes database that some cars run 10.50 with a mild combo on pump gas and near stock weight, and some cars run 10.90s with a 434 afr headed race car chevy vega. It is all in the details I guess. I think I will build a 12:1 forged 406 with a zero deck block. I will use a solid roller race cam with 252 duration @ .050. 190 cc patriot heads(already have them), a victor intake, 1 3/4 headers, and a 750 hp carb. If this combo does not get me into the 10.50s I will replace the heads with afr 210s.

You should replace with 220 or 227's. I have the 210's and run mid tens NA. But it took alot of work. I can kick myself for not buying the 227's as they would have been worth probably 40hp and not cost a dollar more. I don't know about your car at all but I see a 500-525 hp engine being built based on the specs you gave.

agreed, just get the heads now. AFR competition port 210's are sweet. try a touch larger on the cam tho if you can. 260 wouldnt be bad duration on the intake.

227 AFR's have 60/40 valve spacings and require shaft rockers or offset lifters. the 210's dont. Comp port 210's outflow the 227's which are actually 218cc i do believe

AFR is in the process of making a 230+ cc head for the Eliminator lineup that will be VERY impressive on flows. Not sure when we'll see that tho


And you can run 10.50's at 125 or you can run 10.50's at 135mph. The difference is the gearing/launch. Cars that are efficient can run lower ET's for the trap speed. if you set the car up well, it will do great and you can get away with less motor

Hey 1badrz28 any pics of the headers? I am looking to swapping headers this winter. What sterring do you have box or rack? How was install?

This should answer your questions.

S10 steering box, install was no harder than any other set of headers,

Need to loosen headers for an oil change. That's the price you pay I guess. I will install a remote oil filter at some point in the future.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ex...tml?highlight= (Ed Quay 1 7/8 for stock chassis cars)

Thanks man I remember that thread now.

if i were u i would not stop at 10.50. i would buy some real cylinderheads like 18*, 15* heads . great thing about those heads is that i have a very nice set of spread port headers for sale in the classified section that will fit thirdgens perfectly. or i guess u could go with AFR stuff (yawn).

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/en...ders-sale.html

I would love to buy the afrs now, but with the price of the new bottom end, plus a good rear end and cage, I need to reuse these heads. Plus it will give me a direct comparison of these heads to afrs. I know the afrs will win by a landslide, but I am very curious how big of a landslide it will be.
Man, I wish I knew about the ed Quay headers last year when I bought my 2210s, They would be perfect for this combo, oh well, something to add to the list down the road.

If it makes you feel better I am usind the 2210s on my car and in street trim on pump gas I have been 9.95 @ 134 mph with my old 380ci motor it went 9.70 @ 140 mph with the same headers.

I think the 2210s will work, but just not be the perfect choice for me, I will run them for a while though because for 650$ the money could be better spent for now.

With this cam, 252 @ 50 solid roller with 630 lift, and 4.30 gears, what converter would you guys use. I am considering a 4500 and a transbrake, which seems a little loose to me, but most of the cars I have seen with to loose of a converter seem to run better from it, rather than worse, What do you guys think?

seems about right to me

i'd go 4000ish as well

While the 227s do have 60/40 valve spacing they do NOT require shaft rockers or offset lifters.

Interesting...could you cite a source?

AFR's website mentions offset lifters and possibility of shaft rockers for those 227 heads?

From Tony Mamo himself over at speed talk

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewt...hlight=#141431

I know they recommend it but they even say you can use standard rockers (i have the heads and am using standard rockers with no offset lifters just fine )
I didn't want to come off as calling you a liar if that's what you think I was just curious and wanted to read up on the entire deal myself is all. That's pretty cool.

No i didnt think you were calling me a liar. I figured you wanted more information.

[quote=JesasaurusRex;3976397]I know they recommend it but they even say you can use standard rockers (i have the heads and am using standard rockers with no offset lifters just fine )

it says something like if your running on the street you need to run the shaft mount do you drive your on the street as well as the track or just at the track? im asking because i could never get a clear answer about these heads. shaft mounts and offsets?

i am not driving the car around for sh*ts n giggles no...even tho it sees the street from time to time . Make sure your pushrod length is correct with some stud girdles and itll be fine. I had some of the older casting afr 220s (i believe they were 60/40 spacing as well, don't remember tho) which i did run on the street just fine. Solid cams need ajusting tho just know that if that's what ur running.

The AFR 220 was the largest head with standard valve spacing....

there ya go, thx