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Saturday night was nasty. Very hot and muggy. Density altitude was over 6000'. I got 2 passes in before a storm front blew in and covered the track in dust. I loaded up and took the car home for the night. Apparently once the wind died down, the rain held off and they continued T&T but by then many cars had left.
It was a Street Machine weekend. To keep us bracket cars happy, they had a King of the Hill race (one class for all cars). Everyone including the bracket cars ran on a .400 pro tree all weekend. It took me a few runs to get a good launch sequence down but even still, my best reaction time was .057 with .000 in the delay box. Not very good for super class racing but at least I got a bunch of hits on a pro tree to know what to do if I ever have to do it again.
Sunday. Hot and sunny. We started off at 5800' DA and by the time I made my last run at 4:30, the DA was just under 6000'. I was sweating all day in my fire suit as the temperatures hovered around 29c. Inside the car must have been 40c and I'm in a 2 layer fire suit, full face helmet and neck collar.
Total of 6 passes today. First time trial pass I'm going to just throw out. I still wasn't set up properly for the pro tree and my times sure showed it. All my reaction times today were completely out to lunch but so were everyone elses so it really came down to how well you could dial the car in.
Second time trial run. Don't forget, this is at around 5800' DA.
60' - 1.38
1/8 - 6.071
MPH - 113.43
1/4 - 9.521
MPH - 141.95
Third time trial run
60' - 1.378
1/8 - 6.072
MPH - 113.37
1/4 - 9.525
MPH - 141.79
Don't touch anything on the car. You can't get more consistent than that!
First round. Dialed in 9.51
60' - 1.339
1/8 - 6.075
MPH - 113.17
1/4 - 9.534
MPH - 141.35
I won with a MOV of .0477 (about 8-1/2 feet). reaction times were equally poor. I was just closer to my dial. Don't know why the car slowed down with the better 60' time.
Second round. Went up against a mid 8 second dragster and won lane choice. We both wanted the left lane. Moved my dial to 9.52
60' - 1.381
1/8 - 6.066
MPH - 113.78
1/4 - 9.501
MPH - 142.38
Broke out by .019 and I knew I was going to win. The dragster had a worse light and lost traction in the right lane. By the 1000' mark, I could see he wasn't going to catch me but I wasn't going to back off. I never expected to break out.
I leaned down the fuel one pill size and made one more T&T pass. The car ran slower and the tranny was starting to get too hot for me so I loaded up and headed home. Still had a fun day even though my fire suit now smells like old gym clothes. The car was amazingly consistent. I had lots of comments of "nice car" and "wow, you carry the wheels 2-1/2 feet in the air". Actually one in car video today just shows sky as I launch I haven't had time to go through all the footage yet to see what's worth posting online.
Can't wait for some better air. The car seemed to want even more fuel even in the bad air. Although I'm not breaking any personal bests this year after the head swap, I think these bigger heads are going to need a bigger cam for next year. I put the 4.86 gears back in the car last Sunday and the car really likes those. I'm shifting at around 7500 and going through the traps at around the same rpm. I think the off the shelf cam is now holding the engine back.
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87 IROC-Z
All engine, no power adders! Bests: 9.260@146.31 (at altitude)
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One of the girls at work came up to me today. A friend of her's works on the track safety vehicle. He saw me making the passes on the weekend and he told her out of all the cars he's seen go down the track over the years, mine sounds the best. I've had spectators on a Friday night come and tell me that also.
2-1/4" primary tubes into 4" collectors then dual Magnaflow #14153 race mufflers into some side dumps.
I don't know what it is but everyone seems to like the sound of my car. Ever since I installed the mufflers, I don't need to wear ear plugs any more so even I like it.
I looked through all the video I shot on the weekend. None are worth posting. Because I installed a big rear view mirror, the last camera position didn't work because the mirror blocked the view of the tree. I relocated the camera so it sat a bit lower. Now it was too low. You see very little out the window. There's a horizon as I'm sitting on the start line but you don't see a horizon again until after I cross the finish and slow down. The car's nose is in the air all the way down the track. You do see my big sweaty hand doing a shift. Damn it was hot on Sunday and I didn't realize just how hot until I saw the sweat on my hand in the video.
The camera is now mounted back up on the A-pillar bar with a good view through the window for next time.
That was on a slick Friday night track where the street cars were having a hard time hooking up. Those 32 x 14 slicks will almost hook on dirt.
That pic was from the "pictures from the grandstands" and "more pictures from the grandstands" thread I posted a little while ago. Out of all the pics sent to me by a spectator that night. It was a toss up between that one or the one where I'm flying past the grandstand. Everyone likes wheels up shots so I went with it.
The spectator definitely got some good shots. I keep wanting to post up an action shot of mine, but I guess that requires actually getting it down the track. lol
Sounds like it liked the shorter gearing. My memory is kinda fuzzy, what are the specs on the cam you are running?
__________________ Jp Shawgo - Close E'nuff Racing
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 GTA vert www.sandeperformance.com
The spectator definitely got some good shots. I keep wanting to post up an action shot of mine, but I guess that requires actually getting it down the track. lol
Camshaft is designed for 500+ CID and needs a 5000+ stall converter.
The main reason I have this cam is when I first built my 540, it was a locally available cam choice without having to order something right from the manufacturer. Since then, I've changed to a different style tunnel ram, changed from carbs to injection and changed to much bigger heads. Although the cam works fine, it's just not producing enough power that this engine should be making.
I think this winter's projects are going to include a cam change. I'll contact Bullet Cams and get a custom cam made for this engine. There's no reason this car shouldn't run into the 8's even at this altitude. Just needs around 200 more HP. Need to get to that 1000 HP mark.
Oh, I finally registered on YB just so I could use the search feature. I haven't posted anything there yet. Always a wealth of information on YB.
I decided to post one of the videos from last Sunday. I still think it's a crappy camera angle but it's better than nothing. This was my third T&T pass. .400 pro tree and a .080 reaction time.
how the hell do you lose traction in an 8 second dragster?
i'll probably get suspended for this...again...but your cars seriously still super unimpressive for a 540 bbc @ 2xxx lbs on alcohol with a stupid sized tire...sorry
It's funny, I honestly thought the same as JesasaurasRex a couple years ago when I first read about your combo.....until I read your location/altitidue. - We have run S/C at the Mile Highs; came in with a combo that went multiple rounds running right on the 8.90 dial the weekend before(dialed back, it was capable of easy 8.2's) made 3 hits there and had to throw everything we had at it to run 8.9anything. Altitude sucks!
I've not seen too many NA 3000+ lb cars run mid-low 9's on any tire, anywhere. Some do, but for every one that does there's 10 that don't.
Methanol also does not make it any faster, I would venture to guess his reason for running injected methanol is more likely the consistency it offers.
- I ran more cam than that in the 468. With your air density and alitutude, talking directly to a good cam company would most definitely be your best bet. I've heard/seen some good things from Bullet, but have not personally used them as of yet myself. Cam Motion has previously treated me well and I've made good power off of their reccomendations. The actual techs at Comp are pretty good as well.
__________________ Jp Shawgo - Close E'nuff Racing
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 GTA vert www.sandeperformance.com
I run methanol mainly for a cost saving. My sponsor just bought me a barrel for $331. A barrel of C14 or C16 which I would need for this 14:1 engine would be somewhere in the $1000+ range. Even if I burn twice as much alcohol as gas, it's still cheaper. Methanol also doesn't fluctuate the power with minor air changes. It needs a big change in the air to change the performance. The injection system is also a hell of a lot easier to tune than carb(s)
Many years ago when I was racing my 454SS truck, everyone thought it should have run faster than it did. I managed to get a 14.9 out if it finally. What everyone didn't realize that I was only running 15.0 at 5000+ feet altitude and they all backed off with their slow speed complaints. Truck also weighs 4600 pounds. I did manage a 13.28 with NOS once.
I'm sure five7kid could jump in but how many non tube chassis cars are running in Denver below 9 seconds? It's not easy to make HP at high altitude. My engine loses approximately 100 HP just because of the altitude. Give me back that 100 HP and I should run a high 8. Give me a good track surface and it would be even better. This is what I have to deal with to race and I make the best of it.
As for my tire size, it's been an advantage already. On the Friday night street legal nights when there's little to no traction compound put down on the track, the street cars are having a hard time hooking up, even the ones with DOT slicks while I hardly notice it.
I can't remember what the S/C index is here in Calgary. I know the S/G index of 9.90 is 10.24.
Jebus your fuel cost is high. I'm still paying less then $200 for a drum of methanol. - But percentage wise it's still that much cheaper than race gas. IIRC I've been paying around $7-8 per gallon for 110/112 at the station I get it from, it's around $10-12 at the track.
__________________ Jp Shawgo - Close E'nuff Racing
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 GTA vert www.sandeperformance.com
The right lane is bad. Even I notice a dip just past the 60' mark.
Unimpressive in what way? Considering I'm racing in mile high air, it's still pretty good. I wish it was 2xxx lbs. My race weight is just under 3100.
unimpressive as in even if it went 8.90s at sea level it still wouldn't be fast for what it is, not trying to start ****, just stating facts. Also I don't care how bad your track is, your car is no where near fast enough to need so much tire, bracket racer or not, even if it was at a lower altitude and made that extra 100 horse power.
Your car tho, and i guess if I have nothing good to say don't say it at all right? Carry on, glad you're atleast enjoying yourself.
So what's the big deal then. Why does a tubbed out car need to be deep into the 8's or quicker? There are 540 powered cars that can't get out of the 10's at sea level also. I didn't build a prostock car nor do I expect it to run 7's or even mid 8's NA. I'm not using NOS, blower or turbo and I'm making about 750 uncorrected HP. I'm not changing valve springs twice a year. I change my oil once a year just because I feel guilty running it longer than that and I get about 2 years out of a set of slicks.
Although I've had engine problems in the past, I don't want something that I have to constantly maintain or fix after every race weekend.
I've also seen tubbed out cars that only run 12's. There's no rule saying how big or wide a tire has to be for any speed. If you want to try and get down some tracks on a small tire then that's up to you. Stock Eliminator has cars running high 9's on a 9 x 30 slick because that's the biggest size they're allowed to use.
Not all tracks have a perfect surface or prep especially at the grass roots level and the small tires cars will always have traction problems on these types of surfaces. Although small tire, high HP cars can do it, they don't usually do it very often or consistently. Build a small tire car and try competing in Super Gas or Super Stock and see how many rounds it goes. There's a few out there but not many if any are in the winners circle. Spin a tire off the line and you lose.
The small tire turbo cars can run quick because they don't produce the same amount of torque off the line. NOS can be ramped up off the line also reducing the amount of torque on the initial hit.
No big deal at all, like i said it's your car. Just me being my typical negative self. You can have a tubbed out 13 second car really, like you said, there's no speed rule on what size tire you need to run at what speed. All i'm hinting at is there's no need for 7 different threads about the same race day when your car is on the complete opposite end of the 'setting the world on fire' spectrum. And now a days anything can be ramped in with a 7531 box so I don't wanna hear about progressive controllers (which i don't use anyways).
a single digit car is a single digit car. I've seen it done in daily driven 6-speed cars with stock wheel wells, and we often seen it done with tubbed out "trailer queens". Now which one is more practical for racing and is more liable to go rounds and win bracket racing? ....add altitude to the mix and things just become increasingly difficult.
Multiple posts maybe, but it's better than most of the bench racing that goes on on this forum.
I don't recall multiple threads about the same race day. There was one thread (this one) about the performance results then 2 separate threads with pictures as they were given to me on different days. Those 2 could have been combined into one thread but I didn't feel they belonged in this one. Unfortunately, a conversation started up in one of the picture threads. Actually, the picture threads were from a Friday night so they were not even related to this thread.
You must be interested enough if you're clicking on every thread. Even I don't click onto every thread in the racing forum.
I like my tubbed out car no matter what ET it runs. I never intended to build a fast street car. I'm quite happy to have a track only car. Some day I may be able to afford a tube chassis car but I doubt it.
It was a pro tree day because they wanted the street cars to have an even playing field by using a tree that none were used to. They didn't change it back to a full tree for us because the last time they tried switching it like that, the timing system crashed. To guarantee the system would stay running, they just left the tree alone for the weekend.
In a way it was nice. I've wanted to try a pro tree for a few years now and after playing around all weekend, I now know what to set the delay box at and how the car reacts. I'm quite happy to go back to a full tree and launching off the top bulb. It's hard to get set and react on a .400 pro tree. My starting line enhancer is useless and I need to set the transbrake as soon as I stage then with both stage lights lit, I need to get the rpms up quickly before the tree activates. Much harder than what I do at a full tree. It was fun for the weekend but I don't want to do that all the time. I guess the best part was that nobody was getting any red lights until eliminations. Some of the street cars were launching too soon. The slower car who would launch second was reacting off the first car's launch instead of watching his own light.
They were doing a weird race where the best time they got during time trials was their dial in. They never got any timeslips until they were eliminated so they had no idea how fast they ran or how fast any other of the street cars ran. I don't know if a dial in came up on the scoreboards as they staged so they could at least know if they were the slower car or not.
One racer mentioned to me that I should have used the crossover in my delay box. With both dial ins put into the box, I can launch off the slower car's bulbs. I thought about it but didn't want to try. If I'm the faster vehicle, I can get 2 hits at the tree. Somehow the delay box will figure out which button release is the best based on the dial ins. Technically, with a full tree, I can get 3 hits on the tree. Use the crossover to get 2 hits off the top bulbs and if I feel both of those are bad, hit another button to bypass the delay and launch off the bottom bulb.
Way too much happening in a short amount of time for me. I'll just stick with launching off my own top bulb.
Most people don't believe the altitude thing until they bring their sea level car to the mountain and try to tune it back to the times they're used to - it don't happen. NHRA has standard factors for the various sportsman classes, and they have proven very accurate from my own experience (in my case, using the Stock/Super Stock table). http://www.nhra.com/competition/altitude.aspx Multiply your sea level ET by .9276 and you'll have an idea what you'll run up here with similar temp/humidity conditions. On the typical 95-degree Mile High Nationals day, you'll run even slower.
I pit with a guy who has a tubbed & lightened '84 Monte Carlo. He's running a 540 & glide. I don't know specifics on heads/cam/etc. off the top of my head, but I recall some things like 14:1 CR, 2-1/4" primary headers, 5500 stall, etc. The full car with him in it weighs 500 lbs more than the front end of my Camaro. He's in high gear before the 330' mark.
Here he runs about 9.5's on a "good air day" - you know, density altitude in the 8000' range. This past Saturday with about 8500 DA, he was running 1.39-1.41 short times with a best ET of 9.56. In the semi-final round of "Pro ET", with a 18 mph headwind and DA at 8750', he ran a 9.633 on a 9.63 dial when his opponent red-lit. Not exactly a slouch-racer.
He's probably going to the Div V ET Finals in Topeka next month. He's planning on running a restrictor plate to keep above 8.99 sec (his cert #).
In 2003 the Div V Finals were here at Bandimere. As I was waiting at the gate to get in a Super Pro racer from Minnesota pulled up behind me with an '82 Camaro on the trailer. I struck up a conversation with him as we waited, and he asked if it was true cars run slower here. I asked him what he ran at home, he gave me a number (I don't recall exactly what it was, something like mid-10'). I got out the calculator and told him, "You'll be running 11.3's here." His jaw dropped like an anvil. The next morning I saw him again and asked him how his time trials had gone - "After some jetting, got it down to 11.33."
a single digit car is a single digit car. I've seen it done in daily driven 6-speed cars with stock wheel wells, and we often seen it done with tubbed out "trailer queens". Now which one is more practical for racing and is more liable to go rounds and win bracket racing? ....add altitude to the mix and things just become increasingly difficult.
Multiple posts maybe, but it's better than most of the bench racing that goes on on this forum.
I agree. I am not a bracket racer and not a big fan of big tire, loud, hulled out race cars, but I am wise enough to know that there plenty that do like them - simplicity, durability and repeatability go a long way on race day. Even though I do it, I know time slip racing is only two steps away from dyno racing. Everyone is always interested in what your car has ran on its best day - they just never ask what it runs consistently. Honestly that it was what matters for the kind of stuff Stephen 87 IROC does and enjoys.
So all that being said - JesasaurusRex - stop kicking him in the nuts about it.
Funny how people look down at bracket racers like it's not "real racing". Truth is, every kind of racing you can think of has some sort of "playing field-leveling" rules.
Handicapped drag racing adds two elements you don't have in other drag racing. That's just the race itself - add needing to do it 6 or 7 times per race day, other than Stock/Super Stock classes, there aren't any other forms of drag racing that has all those variables.
Repeatability and durability are key to being a bracket racing winner. If you have to risk the appearance of being a poser to the magazine mechanics, so be it.
I haven't had time to go through all the footage yet to see what's worth posting online.
a single digit car is a single digit car. I've seen it done in daily driven 6-speed cars with stock wheel wells, and we often seen it done with tubbed out "trailer queens". Now which one is more practical for racing and is more liable to go rounds and win bracket racing? ....add altitude to the mix and things just become increasingly difficult. 
