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So I picked up an 89 Iroc roller the other day for $250, factory 9 bolt with 3.48 gears. I've got a 2001 lq4 6.0 litre that I'm pulling from a c3500 with a dead trans. The engine runs perfect but has 186k miles, no smoke at all.
I'm planning on putting a Turbo 400 behind it and adding nitrous..... My budget for the whole project is $4,000.
I am going for an NHRA legal, 9 second capable, 10 sec detuned bracket racer.
I've got $3,750 left, what do I spend it on?
Let the clowning begin....
James
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9 bolts didn't come with 3.48 gears. 2.77, 3.27 and 3.45 were the factory ratios.
I think your budget should be spent just getting the driveline installed and running. To dip into the 10's you'll need a roll bar and a few other safety items. To dip into the 9's, you'll need a full cage and a bunch more safety items which are date coded so they'll eventually expire. There are a lot of other requirements to run into the 9's.
I think with your budget, you should stay in the 11.50 and slower range. It costs money to go faster.
__________________
87 IROC-Z
All engine, no power adders! Bests: 9.348@144.71
Yea, brain fart while typing they are 3.45 and I'm thinking it's going to have to stay for the initial build.
I have the facility to build the cage but I'm thinking a kit may be just as cheap and a lot less work.
Anyone can go fast with unlimited budget, I want to go fast for $4 grand.....I realize that realiability will be an issue and I'm willing to accept that.
i think i would leave the motor alone and do the following.....
150-200 shot
th400 with converter
9" rear w/3.90-4.10 gear
moroso trick front springs
koni front shocks
jegster torque converter
draglites/prostars w/front runners and 28x10x15 slicks
rollbar
harness
I have somewhere around $1350 into my fuel system alone and another $2800-ish in my moser 9". Then add $300 for the 6 point roll bar kit and my time and I've spent your budget. Don't think it'll be doable, you'll need headers at $950 unless you can build a set like I did, engine conversion mounts, or motor plate the car, a "good" reliable nitrous setup would be in the $1k range not counting bottle fills once you get all the gauges, timing retard, window switch, etc. Figure on a 8-10k budget IMO. Or if you want to do it for 4k, skip the nitrous, toss in a nice cam and run 11.xx for a year or two while you save. Last shot is sell off everything and buy a car off racing junk that will get you closer to your goal since it'll already be built and the owner can take the hit on the price.
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
Thanks guys, keep it coming..... I have $10k, that's not the point of the exercise.... I want to make this car run 10 seconds for under $4k. xpndbl3 I'm glad you think it can't be done, that's why I'm doing it....
if you do it kudos to you but you're gonna spend a lot of money you don't think you need to getting that thing running with that 6.0 and getting the entire chassis ready to go into the 10s. i to think you should stick to middle 11s and save up to do it right
__________________ "trailers are for hauling horses...not street cars"
10's alone will cost you, none-the-less single digit territory.
Big tickets items first, headers/exhaust, rods/pistons/bore job/rings/bearings(150ish shot ain't getting anywhere near single digits, more than that will turn the stock rods/pistons into ticking time bombs), adjustable tq arm, control arms, lca's, shocks/struts, wheels/tires, decent th400/converter, decent rear end.......
good luck staying under $4k, and that's not even counting the little things (like the $1k+ in building an adequate fuel system and plumbing the car/n20, or rebuilding/replacing/properly upgrading the brakes). It maybe possible for a one shot wonder, but after that one shot you'd have $4k worth of garbage. If you want it to be useable/reliable, you'll have $10k or better in it.
It all looks like gravy from the outside. Keep all your reciepts for every nut/bolt/etc and tell us how you do.
__________________ Jp Shawgo
1986 camaro - 10.5 outlaw/Outlaw 632
1989 lead sled still awating its transformation
- If you can't afford to do it right the first time, can you afford to do it again?
10's alone will cost you, none-the-less single digit territory.
Big tickets items first, headers/exhaust, rods/pistons/bore job/rings/bearings(150ish shot ain't getting anywhere near single digits, more than that will turn the stock rods/pistons into ticking time bombs), adjustable tq arm, control arms, lca's, shocks/struts, wheels/tires, decent th400/converter, decent rear end.......
good luck staying under $4k, and that's not even counting the little things (like the $1k+ in building an adequate fuel system and plumbing the car/n20, or rebuilding/replacing/properly upgrading the brakes). It maybe possible for a one shot wonder, but after that one shot you'd have $4k worth of garbage. If you want it to be useable/reliable, you'll have $10k or better in it.
It all looks like gravy from the outside. Keep all your reciepts for every nut/bolt/etc and tell us how you do.
a single plane intake, big cam, and a 150 shot would be enough to run 9.90's. and it would handle that 150 shot for a loooong time with the stock internals. the rest of the car would have to be right, though.
stock brakes will be just fine.
in theory you could make a walbro 255 pump work and use some or maybe all the stock lines.
just my opinion, though.
you wont go tens for 4 grand let alone the big ticket items little stuff also adds up fast
__________________
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I'd rather have a clean stock Iroc with a good running Tune Port for $4k than a POS Junkyard Jewel with thrown together swap meet junk that has a chance of running 10's with another $5k that you forgot to mention.
Aint happening. Wouldn't want it if it could.
__________________ 1986 Camaro Sport Coupe - 383/T-350/3k stall/4.10's
10.8cr, AFR 195's, victor Jr, Pro Systems 850.
COMP XE-284-H (241/246 @ .050 W/ .537/.540 lift)
Hooker 2210's (1 3/4) W/ 2.5 exhaust and Flows Motor all forged and studded for Nitrous
Walbro intank pump with hotwire kit good for over 500whp with wet 150 shot.
You will need headers, probly buy a cheap set and chop up to fit lsx into thirdgen. Like a set of big block headers used from someone. Else i'm not sure what your gonna do. This could be a big item.
you will need to convert truck intake to a LS1 style intake and run a LSX style nitrous ring
Assuming you have the wiring harness and ecm, i'd keep it injected as its gonna be cheaper for now but you will need fuel injectors for the power you will need. Going to carb on lsx isnt that cheap/easy either. They were designed for electronics so keep it injected
You will need rebuild heads with new springs to handle the new cam. Nice cam only setup with new lifters and such may cost 500-600 bucks right there but you'll need it. Cam will make near 400whp on motor alone with full header/tune/ls1 intake manifold. 150 shot will put you in the mid 10s
stock rear should hold it, mine did for few heavy passes in the 10's
I realllly dont think you'll beable to do this for 4 grand but depends on finding parts USED for cheap and your fab skills.
I mean you can try to keep stock rear, throw a cheap converter in the trans, throw in that motor and spray a 200-250 shot and hope it cracks 10's but I doubt it.
i honestly think this can be done. i KNOW if you bought the parts i tell you to it should do it.
10.50's should be a breeze considering you could go ~11.30's with a STOCK 6.0 if the car is 2900# and you have the right converter in there along with the right suspension stuff.... picking up another half second with a 150 shot should not be hard.
Friend (mentor lol) of mine built a 1980 pinto into a mid 10 second car (without nitrous). He fabricated everything himself, its a fuel injected 2.3l 4 banger (lol) with a turbo off of a dodge diesel ect. Hes put about $6200 from the cost of the car to where it is now and its also hes DD (when hes not working on it). He recently put a c4 automatic in it because it was driving through the clutch but before he did he said he could get 20+mpg. Moral of that im pretty impressed by that car and all the work in it for that cost, so im sure you could achieve your goal with enough knowledge and effort.
I think you should go for it. I think it can be done. That 6.0 is a great platform to start with and the heads are also pretty good. Stock rear will hold for a bit. Just be a bit easy on the launch.
http://www.hensleymotorsports.net/Pinto_Pics.php
The pics are a few years old i think , hes the old man on the far right. Except for a few things it was about the same then as is now, looks better in person especially since it has carpet and everything is put together so well and neat.
Lol yeah its an awesome sleeper he's told me about a few street kills from a gt500 to a guy in a new vette who wouldn't even look his way after he beat him.
can you buy an S400 turbo and fab up everything yourself? Could easily do a turbo kit for 2-3 grand yourself and if the tune is good the power will be there
Local guy made 700+ whp on a bone stock 4.8 gen III motor from a truck. Just has upgraded rod bolts
Just for reference, I've picked up good low mileage take-out 4L80's for $500. So maybe $200-$300 as a core.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
a single plane intake, big cam, and a 150 shot would be enough to run 9.90's. and it would handle that 150 shot for a loooong time with the stock internals. the rest of the car would have to be right, though.
stock brakes will be just fine.
in theory you could make a walbro 255 pump work and use some or maybe all the stock lines.
just my opinion, though.
i honestly think this can be done. i KNOW if you bought the parts i tell you to it should do it.
10.50's should be a breeze considering you could go ~11.30's with a STOCK 6.0 if the car is 2900# and you have the right converter in there along with the right suspension stuff.... picking up another half second with a 150 shot should not be hard.
not to single you out Diggler, just to touch on some things mentioned:
A good tq arm, lcas, lcarbs, and subframe connectors is easily $1k in parts. A good/fresh th400 with 34 element sprag and good clutches will be $800+, plus a decent nitrous converter will be $300+, $100+ on the driveshaft(don't tell me the stocker is safe when shooting for single digits, even still, a 400 yoke + shortening and balancing). $400+ for a roll bar/cage(cheap kit + shipping, harness, welding gas, wire, etc). Wheels/tires $500+(and we all know that won't even remotely cover new).
So, we're at over $3k now, and we haven't got anything done to the motor or put it in the chassis. We haven't even touched the front suspension.
Stock brakes would be ok, but would you run over 100mph on old used pads/shoes and unknown calipers/wheel cylinders? What about all the lines for that matter? That's pretty fast for unknown ball-joints/tie-rods, etc too. How are we planning on shifting this thing? Are we sticking with stock instruments/wiring? Stock rear end/gearing? How many adapers/fittings/hoses are we going to need to get it all plumbed in? What radiator/trans cooler are we using: fan(s)? Exhaust? What are we doing to get it under 3000 lbs?
Believe me, I'm totally in agreeance with doing something because others say it can't be done. I just don't see running that kind of ET's safely/consistently for $4k total. - Robbing parts from your other stuff/shelf doesn't count, it still has a value and that value needs to be contributed to the total cost of a build.
we're not trying to dog on you man, but its gonna be tough to get it done, and get it done safely, you don't wanna be the guy who takes up an hour or more of test and tune on friday night because you grenaded something or wadded the car up
__________________ "trailers are for hauling horses...not street cars"
even if you get it done i wouldn't want to be in the lane next to you in that ticking time bomb
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
I think the 4k is going to be a strech, but I hope you do it.
Depends on what kind of deal on used parts you can find. Not to mention your fabrication skills.
Why not just get stock motor with LS1 intake and the trans you choose in the car first. Then setup the rear with LCARB's and some slicks or Hoosier QTP's. Gut the car and see what it runs. You can alway add a cam and n20 later.
Did I get that correct, you found a LS1 intake for $10??
I like doing a few mods at a time to see what picked up my et's.
can you buy an S400 turbo and fab up everything yourself? Could easily do a turbo kit for 2-3 grand yourself and if the tune is good the power will be there
Local guy made 700+ whp on a bone stock 4.8 gen III motor from a truck. Just has upgraded rod bolts
Just for reference, I've picked up good low mileage take-out 4L80's for $500. So maybe $200-$300 as a core.
not to single you out Diggler, just to touch on some things mentioned:
A good tq arm, lcas, lcarbs, and subframe connectors is easily $1k in parts. A good/fresh th400 with 34 element sprag and good clutches will be $800+, plus a decent nitrous converter will be $300+, $100+ on the driveshaft(don't tell me the stocker is safe when shooting for single digits, even still, a 400 yoke + shortening and balancing). $400+ for a roll bar/cage(cheap kit + shipping, harness, welding gas, wire, etc). Wheels/tires $500+(and we all know that won't even remotely cover new).
So, we're at over $3k now, and we haven't got anything done to the motor or put it in the chassis. We haven't even touched the front suspension.
Stock brakes would be ok, but would you run over 100mph on old used pads/shoes and unknown calipers/wheel cylinders? What about all the lines for that matter? That's pretty fast for unknown ball-joints/tie-rods, etc too. How are we planning on shifting this thing? Are we sticking with stock instruments/wiring? Stock rear end/gearing? How many adapers/fittings/hoses are we going to need to get it all plumbed in? What radiator/trans cooler are we using: fan(s)? Exhaust? What are we doing to get it under 3000 lbs?
Believe me, I'm totally in agreeance with doing something because others say it can't be done. I just don't see running that kind of ET's safely/consistently for $4k total. - Robbing parts from your other stuff/shelf doesn't count, it still has a value and that value needs to be contributed to the total cost of a build.
just going off of my own experiences....
i went 6.20's in the 1/8 with....
STOCK LT1 shortblock, just had a cam and the heads were ported
freshened up th400 for $250 no transbrake
$300 jw torque converter
10 year old nos cheater plate with 180 shot
stock brakes initially with drag brakes added later. car stopped great from over 130mph.
stock driveshaft
but i will also add that i have bought a whole bunch of aftermarket nickel and dime stuff as well. not to mention every expensive piece of suspension you can get.
but i do believe you can pull this off with lots of stock suspension pieces as well.
just going off of my own experiences....
i went 6.20's in the 1/8 with....
STOCK LT1 shortblock, just had a cam and the heads were ported
freshened up th400 for $250 no transbrake
$300 jw torque converter
10 year old nos cheater plate with 180 shot
stock brakes initially with drag brakes added later. car stopped great from over 130mph.
stock driveshaft
but i will also add that i have bought a whole bunch of aftermarket nickel and dime stuff as well. not to mention every expensive piece of suspension you can get.
but i do believe you can pull this off with lots of stock suspension pieces as well.
care to divulge any cam specs? pm if you don't want it out in the open...
care to divulge any cam specs? pm if you don't want it out in the open...
lol.... its just an off the shelf comp cam. nitrous grind for a vortec motor.
the car just about ran the same times with a xe230/236 LT1 cam. again, right off the shelf. nothing custom about it.
thats the thing... all you have to do is put together a motor that can make around 400-430ish at the wheels, hit it with a 150 shot, and its good for mid 10's power-wise.... at least! and i know for a fact that you can shoot an LT1 or LSx motor hundreds of times with a 150 shot without it failing. (if everything is done properly)
do you need a $1,200 trans to handle 550rwhp? nope.
will it snap a stock steel driveshaft the first pass? i never did, even on a 1.32 60'.
the main thing is to get everything else in the car setup. the power is the easy part.
do you need a $1,200 trans to handle 550rwhp? nope.
87 TA has been in the 10's on a nitrous 406 for years on stock rear end and stock trannies. Sprays at like 20mph i believe. Good stuff.
However being 9 second NHRA tech'd and capable is gonna cost some money. Proper cage/safety harness/tranny shield/ SFI stuff, it all adds up abit i'm sure
I running 10.90s with bone stock 95 lt1 converted to carb, 150 shot, 350 trans, and stock 2:73 rear no posi. its for sale by the way. cheap... You should be able to beat that time with your motor, it probably won't last long though.
U need a cam, nitrous, carb and intake setup. and that should do it.
i bought an 86 monte carlo hoping for a 5000$ 10 second car. turns out, i didnt want to cheap things out, the 8 point roll bar and welding was 500$, trick springs, 3 way adjustable shocks, custom double adjustable upper arms, spc tubular upper a-arms, lower boxed rear control arms cost about 1500$, then weld pro stars new with tires 1400$, 489 BBC blown was 19,000$, th400 built w/ trans brake was 1000$, autometer gauges 1000$, racing seats with harnesses 300$, all new brake lines 200$, fuel system 1500$, -10an feed fuel lines, aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, -10 return fuel line, 4 x -8an to carburetors, 16g rci fuel cell, aeromotive a1000 fuel pump. taylor battery box trunk style with op battery and battery wire 500$. lots more turned out to be over 30,000$ if you want everything done right and will run 9s all day
Here's the important line from the original post that everyone seems to be missing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesH
I am going for an NHRA legal, 9 second capable, 10 sec detuned bracket racer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
lol.... its just an off the shelf comp cam. nitrous grind for a vortec motor.
the car just about ran the same times with a xe230/236 LT1 cam. again, right off the shelf. nothing custom about it.
thats the thing... all you have to do is put together a motor that can make around 400-430ish at the wheels, hit it with a 150 shot, and its good for mid 10's power-wise.... at least! and i know for a fact that you can shoot an LT1 or LSx motor hundreds of times with a 150 shot without it failing. (if everything is done properly)
do you need a $1,200 trans to handle 550rwhp? nope.
will it snap a stock steel driveshaft the first pass? i never did, even on a 1.32 60'.
the main thing is to get everything else in the car setup. the power is the easy part.
I'm sure you know a mid 10 is a long ways away from an NHRA legal 9 second pass.
I estimated $100 in the ds, if here were to have his stocker shortened and rebalanced for a Th400, especially since he will also need to come up with a Th400 yoke. - He will likely need a minimum of a manual vb and good clutches; pending having a roller sprag direct drum. If dog-bone, will need the 34 element sprag. Even used, you will be very lucky to have less than $500 in the trans, any decent n2o converter will be $300+.
I would estimate $4k in the chassis for a NHRA legal 9 second capable car, doing it as budget friendly as possible and doing all the work yourself. Then add driveline.
Here's the important line from the original post that everyone seems to be missing.
I'm sure you know a mid 10 is a long ways away from an NHRA legal 9 second pass.
I estimated $100 in the ds, if here were to have his stocker shortened and rebalanced for a Th400, especially since he will also need to come up with a Th400 yoke. - He will likely need a minimum of a manual vb and good clutches; pending having a roller sprag direct drum. If dog-bone, will need the 34 element sprag. Even used, you will be very lucky to have less than $500 in the trans, any decent n2o converter will be $300+.
I would estimate $4k in the chassis for a NHRA legal 9 second capable car, doing it as budget friendly as possible and doing all the work yourself. Then add driveline.
i agree, i was not considering "9 sec. NHRA legal" at all. that pretty much throws all that stuff out the window, as its pretty insane what the require you to have just to go 9.99.
i have spent a fortune on my car trying to get things legal and dependable, and still do not have everything thats required. i still have to get a jacket, pants, neck collar, window net, and a new harness that is up to date.
bellhousings, flexplates, balancers, rollbar, harness, helmet, suit, liscense, window net, etc. etc. etc..... and most of that stuff will need to be replaced every so often when it goes out of date. its nuts.
all my rationing was simply to make the car go a mid 10 to a high 9. not bulletproof or nhra legal, but the stuff would make the car run the #.
Thats what i'm doing. My car will be 9 second car hopefully but at the track i'll only run 10's due to not being legal. It aint a drag car so i dont see the point in window nets and stuff like that, nor do i want to replace anything in the car such as flexplate/balancer etc
Yes, I guess I wrote that wrong. Should have been 10 second NHRA legal 9 second capable...... 9 second NHRA legal brings a whole new level of expense into the mix....
honestly the tracks i run at dont go apeshit on all this stuff. you roll the car down to tech, they look it over, ask you how fast it is, and basically make sure you at least have the main stuff in place like the proper rollbars, harness, driveshaft loop, helmet, etc. they do not crawl under the car looking for sfi decals that are up to date on the bellhousing or anything like that.
the safety stuff is good to keep in check, but its always fairly relative to the car.
a vega running 10.50's needs a lot more safety precautions than a new zr1 vette stock on drag radials running 10.50's. just my opinion, though.
I don't think you can do it for $4000. I am in the process of an LS1 swap and it isn't cheap. You still need a tranny, fbody intake / carb setup, fbody accessories, motor mounts, fuel lines / pump, wiring, headers / exhaust. You MAY get it running and driving for $4000, but you won't have anything left for power parts.
Not going to carburator, sticking with fuel injected. Nothing like a good challenge.....Got my Excel spreadsheet set up to budget and track costs, will keep you all posted....
Sure seem to be a lot of cheap 10 second cars here. Either, they are gutted messes or run at 300 feet below sea level down hill. It takes quit an engine to move a 3300-3600lb car into the 10's NA. I must have been doing it all wrong before. I needed 406 ci's with afr heads to run 10.70's at 126 through the exhaust with full interior. It went 9.60's on a 180 shot. I wish I would have known about the junkyard parts that would have gotten my car into the 10's before forking out all that $$$$.
Sure seem to be a lot of cheap 10 second cars here. Either, they are gutted messes or run at 300 feet below sea level down hill. It takes quit an engine to move a 3300-3600lb car into the 10's NA. I must have been doing it all wrong before. I needed 406 ci's with afr heads to run 10.70's at 126 through the exhaust with full interior. It went 9.60's on a 180 shot. I wish I would have known about the junkyard parts that would have gotten my car into the 10's before forking out all that $$$$.
you were doing it wrong.
its typically not cheap to build a 10 second n/a engine and hitting it with a 150 shot to go 9's. much better idea to build an 11 second n/a motor and hit it with a 200-225 shot to go 9's.
, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
14psi, street tune 
88 Firebird Formula 350- 85,XXX miles *G92* *Ws6*
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