150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
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Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Im living proof that the motor will hold. I have about 100 passes logged with my 150 shot. I suggest a wet shot and retard the timing a bit when you juice it. My ET drops 1.5 seconds when i spray. Your car is already fast, so i think a .7 second better ET is a safe guess.
__________________ 91 Z28..
-best on nitrous 11.90@115 mph
-best on motor 13.32@102 mph
-140,000 miles (driven hard)
-stock, untouched L98 (internal)
-stock heads and intake
-best 60' 1.71 on MT Streets and stock converter my car (with videos)
I've owned this car since 1997
the other ride...
03 Silverado SS
-Black
-14.32@96 mph
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
it should be able to hold it as long as you dont over rev the motor, let it lean out, or run too much timing. my 305 held a 200 shot and now a blower with a 100 shot on the stock bottom end, so your motor should be okay. i would expect nitrous to drop almost a second off your time if you spray it off the line
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89305formula
it should be able to hold it as long as you dont over rev the motor, let it lean out, or run too much timing. my 305 held a 200 shot and now a blower with a 100 shot on the stock bottom end, so your motor should be okay. i would expect nitrous to drop almost a second off your time if you spray it off the line
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Any V8 engine in good condition should be able to handle 150 HP of NOS.
My daily driver 454SS truck has NOS. My best performance pass with NOS equated to a 165 shot (bottle was around 1200 PSI). The truck is 4600 pounds and I hit the NOS right off the line. It went from a 15.0 NA to a 13.28 with NOS.
How much you gain depends on what you currently run. A 15 or 16 second vehicle may see 1.0-1.5 seconds. My 9 second car, if it saw a 150 shot, may gain .25-.50 seconds. The faster you go, HP goes up exponentially to go even faster.
__________________
87 IROC-Z
All engine, no power adders! Bests: 9.348@144.71
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Right now I am running 12.01 at 112.45 mph 1/4 with 1.62 60ft.
I know anything faster than 11.50 and I need a roll bar. I refuse to add one on this car. I should be able to hit 11.50's with less of a shot.
Should I go with a dedicated fuel system, or tap into my current setup?
Current set up is a stock 350 TPI fuel pump with a mallory bypass regulator on stock lines. The carb uses 6 to 7 psi.
Will the stock tpi fuel pump support both the motor and the N2O system?
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
A 150 shot will probably put you below 11.50. Always start with a small shot and build your way up. The factory pump should be able to handle that much.
If you're not already using it, a shot of NOS will require premium fuel. One drawback to using a power adder. You need better fuel.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
spray away with tighter gap and colder plug, pull 4 degrees or so and dont rev tooo high and it will hold just fine.
I went from 11.4-11.5's to 10.6's with 150 shot. you shoud gain almost a second so figure low 11's at 122 mph. Need a bar but some tracks may not be so strict. I know my track has let lots of cars go with no bar in the low 11's
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Don't forget the single layer fire jacket when you have the bottle in the car. Mine went from an 11.81 @ 114 to 10.49 @ 126 on a 200 shot. Friend of mine went from about the same 11.80's to a 10.99 on a 125 shot.
__________________ Best times to date, motor pass: 11.81 @ 114.55 1.63 60' 10/18/08
nitrous pass: 10.49 @ 126 mph 1.42 60' 10/18/08
350, AFR 195 heads, Eagle H-beam 6" rods, Victor Jr,
750 Race Demon, ProMagnum RR's, Hooker LT, TH400, Spohn T/A and C/M
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Stephen 87 IROC,
Good thing is, I always run 93 octane with this car.
So if I just tie into the afpr port for the fuel, I should be ok?
Orr89RocZ,
I had thougth about the plugs and gap. The timing I was thinking the rule of thumb was "2 degrees retard for every 50 shot of N2O". Im running 40* NA, but can dial it back to 36*. To bad I only have a MSD 6L, if I had the 6AL, I could buy the timing retard box with just a twist of a knob.
EvilCartman,
I run at www.londondragway.com
They are a NHRA track and do check the cars. I have a out dated single layer jacket, but I should be able to slip by.
Right now, I just throw on my seat belt and my helmet and go. Im not even running a driveshaft loop. I do need to do something on that. I have a fire extinguisher mounted on the passenger side on the hump.
Oh yeah, they did tell me to add a secondary throttle retun spring for next time. I had one, but the pedel was too stiff, so I took it off.
Which kit do you guys suggest? What extras do I need to add to it?
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullydawg
What is your car running in the 1/4 with those?
The 200 shot with out the blower i went a 11.38, with the blower i went a 11.990 and i just put the 100 shot back on last week so im not sure what it will run with both, but im thinking low 11s.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
In 1999 I ran a '86 Mont Carlo SS. The car was a full car with a glass hood and Welds. The motor was a 350 Stock truck block with an Edelbrock RPM cam and box stock Vortech heads when they first became a good aftermarket item. It had a dual plane and Holley 650.
I sprayed that car with a NOs super Powershot (150) from 1999 through 2001 Every single weekend. Two bottles a night, Three nights a weekend. Best time at the track was 11.60 @ 118 on the bottle. But it was mainly a Philly street race car.
I sold it to a guy who blew it up two months after he got it.
I wouldn't hesitate to put a 150 on your motor. Just back the timing off and run good plugs and good gas. It will be fine.
That hitman kit is a good kit but will possibly make more power than you are looking for.
__________________ 1986 Camaro Sport Coupe - 383/T-350/3k stall/4.10's
10.8cr, AFR 195's, victor Jr, Pro Systems 850.
COMP XE-284-H (241/246 @ .050 W/ .537/.540 lift)
Hooker 2210's (1 3/4) W/ 2.5 exhaust and Flows Motor all forged and studded for Nitrous
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen 87 IROC
The fuel pressure for the NOS probably needs to be regulated. Take a supply source from the line going to the carb.
What stable fuel psi would a 150 shot or less require?
Would something like this work? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-650420/ and if so, would I put it on the main line going to the afpr or after? And add another afpr on the line going to the N20?
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast LS1
In 1999 I ran a '86 Mont Carlo SS. The car was a full car with a glass hood and Welds. The motor was a 350 Stock truck block with an Edelbrock RPM cam and box stock Vortech heads when they first became a good aftermarket item. It had a dual plane and Holley 650.
I sprayed that car with a NOs super Powershot (150) from 1999 through 2001 Every single weekend. Two bottles a night, Three nights a weekend. Best time at the track was 11.60 @ 118 on the bottle. But it was mainly a Philly street race car.
I sold it to a guy who blew it up two months after he got it.
I wouldn't hesitate to put a 150 on your motor. Just back the timing off and run good plugs and good gas. It will be fine.
That hitman kit is a good kit but will possibly make more power than you are looking for.
I want to keep this car street/strip. I would like to do 11.50's NA, but I would have to go to a 355 or 383 with more cam and bigger headers.
Im not even running a fiberglass hood. Its still the stock 92 hood with blisters. I have full interior and want to keep it that way also. Its 3400lbs with me and a 1/2 tank of gas.
Im trying to weigh my options. Add a little N2O and be done, more weight reductions and tunning, or build the 355 or 383.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
If you were just looking to impress your self with some decent timeslips I would just stick with a 150 kit. NX is a nice brand but they make strong power and it doesn't seem like your looking for a hard hit that could start breaking parts. I would stick with the small Edelbrock kit or NOs kit. Both good companys.
If your looking to have a 11.50 car than I would build a 383 shortblock and do the swap. But who's to say that won't turn into gutting the car, more converter, buying slicks, etc....
I suggest keeping the car clean, well built and hit it with a little 75-150 to amuse yourself.
I often think about tunning mine down to an easy 11.50 car because it only gets fusterating and expensive past that.
__________________ 1986 Camaro Sport Coupe - 383/T-350/3k stall/4.10's
10.8cr, AFR 195's, victor Jr, Pro Systems 850.
COMP XE-284-H (241/246 @ .050 W/ .537/.540 lift)
Hooker 2210's (1 3/4) W/ 2.5 exhaust and Flows Motor all forged and studded for Nitrous
Well if a 100 shot would do it, then that would be fine. If I can get away without the roll bar at my track, then low 11's high 10's will be even better.
Last edited by bluegrassz; 08-20-2009 at 11:46 AM.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
I will say this. If I had your car, clean as it is, I would be running the 12.0 class and if you have the money just buy the cheap kit so you can print the 11 sec slip. My car is a wreck so I'm just gonna continue to waste time and money on it making it go faster until I end up in a divorce.
__________________ 1986 Camaro Sport Coupe - 383/T-350/3k stall/4.10's
10.8cr, AFR 195's, victor Jr, Pro Systems 850.
COMP XE-284-H (241/246 @ .050 W/ .537/.540 lift)
Hooker 2210's (1 3/4) W/ 2.5 exhaust and Flows Motor all forged and studded for Nitrous
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Is N2O going to make the car better or worse when it comes to being consistant?
Its still pretty consistant. Just regulate pressure in the bottle with a bottle heater and its gonna be consistant. Once the bottle starts to get down into the last 3 shots, times start to show abit of a drop.
Full bottle for me at 900 psi went 128 mph. Last run of the day which was 4th pass I went 126.65 so things started to drop off a bit.
Quote:
Im trying to weigh my options. Add a little N2O and be done, more weight reductions and tunning, or build the 355 or 383.
I would do the 383 just to have a fresh strong motor and it easily will be a streetable 11.50 car. Since your at 12.0's now, I think a 50 whp shot sprayed off the line the full pass will get you darn close to mid 11's. A 150whp shot will put you welllll past your goal. It will do bottom 11's. Keep a small cheap kit on it and run 50-75 shot and on that setup that motor will easily take that many times over and the bottle will last MUCH longer.
I really dont think you need much more power to get there. 350whp car will do 114mph traps. 400whp car will do 118-119 traps. That difference there will show 4 tenths gain in ET.
With small shot you also wont have to pull too much timing so your n/a tune will be strong. I'm surprised your running 40 degrees! AFR heads are pretty efficient even tho you have the older version. If thats best power then use it. I ran 34 in my 383 with AFR 195 eliminators and with the 150 shot at an air fuel in the mid high 11's to 1, i ran 32 degrees timing. I got the mallory hyfire VI setup with timing retard wired into the WOT switch so the nitrous comes on and timing is simultaneously pulled.
The Performer kit only goes to 100. The plate in the kit is only good to 125.
The Performer RPM kit comes 100-250. It has the bigger plate & solenoids.
For consistency, you need to control bottle pressure, fuel pressure, and the "line quality" - you want liquid at the plate orifice, which means a purge kit is a good idea. Last Saturday my purge solenoid wouldn't open for my first pass, I decided to run it anyway since it is a "qualified" class and you only get two shots at the track. My 60' was off by .02-sec, which makes a big difference at the top end. (The reason for the solenoid problem was low battery voltage - I ran the charger on it before the next run, and didn't have a problem after that.)
Of course, the other things you need to control NA still apply.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast LS1
In 1999 I ran a '86 Mont Carlo SS. The car was a full car with a glass hood and Welds. The motor was a 350 Stock truck block with an Edelbrock RPM cam and box stock Vortech heads when they first became a good aftermarket item. It had a dual plane and Holley 650.
I sprayed that car with a NOs super Powershot (150) from 1999 through 2001 Every single weekend. Two bottles a night, Three nights a weekend. Best time at the track was 11.60 @ 118 on the bottle. But it was mainly a Philly street race car.
I sold it to a guy who blew it up two months after he got it.
I wouldn't hesitate to put a 150 on your motor. Just back the timing off and run good plugs and good gas. It will be fine.
That hitman kit is a good kit but will possibly make more power than you are looking for.
TWEEKD! haha... I bought those heads off that Monte from the guy you sold it to and went 11.60 @ 118mph on a 150 shot too with an NX274 cam... 12.52 @ 108 on motor.
Those Vortec heads just don't seem to work very well with nitrous though... The guy Malibu2slow had a 400 with Vortecs and Comp's XS282 he went 11.60's on MOTOR and only 10.90's on a 150 shot.
Well if a 100 shot would do it, then that would be fine. If I can get away without the roll bar at my track, then low 11's high 10's will be even better.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Orr89RocZ,
Bottle pressure was a concern of mine. I see guys at the track using a propane torch on there bottles, I think I would rather go the heater route!
A 50 shot should last a while with a 10lbs bottle.
On the 40* of timing, we tried it at 36* and 38*, but I picked up .20 by going from 36 to 40. The car starts with no problem even in the heat. Im running a MSD Pro Billit without the vac. Its setup to have everything in by 3k.
five7kid,
A purge kit has been a deffinate if I put a bottle on it. I have heard of guys purging through the motor, but I dont want to do it that way.
JesasaurusRex,
Yeah, I got the joke, but It made me research a few different kits I hadnt looke at. LOL
It also got me to thinking "If I only need a 50 shot is it really worth it".
Thats pretty funny. Small world. What happened to the rest of the car?
I broke a valve in the car on I-95 racing a mustang. thats when I found the Vortec's to be the best bang head for the money. Got them new from Jim Pace along with the intake. Bolted them on and the car flew. I never really ran it on motor though. I imagine it was a mid or high twelve car.
__________________ 1986 Camaro Sport Coupe - 383/T-350/3k stall/4.10's
10.8cr, AFR 195's, victor Jr, Pro Systems 850.
COMP XE-284-H (241/246 @ .050 W/ .537/.540 lift)
Hooker 2210's (1 3/4) W/ 2.5 exhaust and Flows Motor all forged and studded for Nitrous
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrassz
Orr89RocZ,
Bottle pressure was a concern of mine. I see guys at the track using a propane torch on there bottles, I think I would rather go the heater route!
A 50 shot should last a while with a 10lbs bottle.
On the 40* of timing, we tried it at 36* and 38*, but I picked up .20 by going from 36 to 40. The car starts with no problem even in the heat. Im running a MSD Pro Billit without the vac. Its setup to have everything in by 3k.
five7kid,
A purge kit has been a deffinate if I put a bottle on it. I have heard of guys purging through the motor, but I dont want to do it that way.
JesasaurusRex,
Yeah, I got the joke, but It made me research a few different kits I hadnt looke at. LOL
It also got me to thinking "If I only need a 50 shot is it really worth it".
40 total on a small block with aftermarket heads? i'd like to see some of ur spark plugs
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Hey Bluegrassz I am looking to add a nitrous kit next year if I get this thing tuned properly and our combos are similar so post up your decision and results.
And thanks again for your help
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor80dad
Hey Bluegrassz I am looking to add a nitrous kit next year if I get this thing tuned properly and our combos are similar so post up your decision and results.
And thanks again for your help
Your welcome,
Yeah, If I end up going the N2O route, I will post my results.
Bottle pressure was a concern of mine. I see guys at the track using a propane torch on there bottles, I think I would rather go the heater route!
I installed a bottle heater this year. You get a lot more out of the bottle, that's for sure.
I've seen some guys at the track with a controller that operates the heater based on bottle pressure. Wish I had one. Much better than the thermal switch included with my bottle heater kit.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Yeah my heater was pressure switch operated but in the fall cool air, i still couldnt heat my bottle much over 950 psi but the kit was rated at 900-950 so i guess it was ok.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Yeah my heater was pressure switch operated but in the fall cool air, i still couldnt heat my bottle much over 950 psi but the kit was rated at 900-950 so i guess it was ok.
Isnt that the best range to run the psi? I have seen guys go faster with say 1200 psi, but isnt that borderline too high?
The pressure affects the flow through the orifice. Systems are calibrated based on the 900 psi flow. If you run higher pressure, you need to add fuel to compensate.
My fuel pressure had crept up to 7.5 psi. The kit calibration was based on 6 psi. I dropped it back down to 6 psi, and suddenly the car acted like it was getting more nitrous. In fact, it was just getting the right ratio of fuel to nitrous again.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by five7kid
The pressure affects the flow through the orifice. Systems are calibrated based on the 900 psi flow. If you run higher pressure, you need to add fuel to compensate.
My fuel pressure had crept up to 7.5 psi. The kit calibration was based on 6 psi. I dropped it back down to 6 psi, and suddenly the car acted like it was getting more nitrous. In fact, it was just getting the right ratio of fuel to nitrous again.
Gotcha! I wasnt sure how higher psi affected the shot.
If I go the N2O route, I just want to set it up correctly. I dont want to just throw a system on and go.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Yeah most kits are rated at 900-950 psi but when you get down on the bottle level, you'll need higher psi to get all of it out. I only got 4 good passes on the 10lb bottle with a 150whp shot and I was running mid 10's so spraying for about 10 seconds. Just didnt last long and that last shot mph was already dropping off some
Last year without the bottle heater, I was getting 5 100-shot passes out of a 10 lb bottle during the summer.
In April, I had a freshly filled bottle and even with the heater, could barely get the pressure up to 900 psi. It was only about 45 degrees out, I was doing everything I could think of to get it warmed up.
On August 16th, I was at the track for the second day in a row in the race series that I run the nitrous. I had left the car at the track overnight and the temp got down to about 50 degrees. When I got to the track in the morning, I set my portable generator in the trunk with the exhaust pointing at the bottle (works even better than the bottle heater blanket). I only had 3 50-shot runs off that bottle, and it took half an hour to get the pressure up to 900 so I could make a pass. After that the air temp went up, I could leave the trunk open so the sun warmed the bottle, and I ended up getting 9 passes off that bottle. I changed to a fresh bottle before the semi-finals because the air temp was dropping, and I didn't want to risk not being able to keep the pressure up for the last two rounds (went out in the semis for other reasons. . .).
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
I can see why guys go with a SC or Turbo!!
I havnt checked the local price to fill a bottle. You guys can be out quite a bit of $ depending on how may rounds you go. I guess I really didnt realize how quick the bottle ran out.
With just a 100 shot, it would last longer, but in the long run the cost would add up.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
closest shop to me was charging 6 a pound... most are $4 a pound around other areas. But i wasnt gonna drive 45 min just to get one filled. I already was driving 30min to nearest station
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesasaurusRex
obvious that you don't know where to look on a plug when considering timing
anyway you could get a picture of the ground strap ?
Thanks for the unkind words.
As a matter of fact, The mark on the ground strap is in the middle. I was running AC FR3LS and had to have new plugs. I went to Champion RC12YC just so I could keep a better reading log.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by five7kid
I usually get mine filled at the track. $3.50/pound. They charge for the bottle capacity, not for how much they put in.
Non-recurring, nitrous is the cheapest HP/$ out there. Recurring, NA and supercharger start looking very attractive.
In my case, I want the car to run at different ETs for different classes, so nitrous is an easy switch to throw.
If I could swing the cash, I would go 9.0-1 383 with a D1SC. My heads are AFR 190's which have been worked and flowed. We had them milled and are now 60cc. It might be hard to get the 9.0-1, but with some dish pistons and the fact the block is still at stock deck height.
As far as running more than one class, your N2O setup is the way to go. Dont you run a 12.0 index class?
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
JE has a piston for you tht will get near 9 to 1. its a 28 cc dish heavy duty piston. I run the same piston in my 401, just wider bore thats all so its at 9 to 1 with 65cc head. 383 bore will give 9.1 on your 60cc head. Thats perfect for some boost
As far as running more than one class, your N2O setup is the way to go. Dont you run a 12.0 index class?
7.50-12.75. NA at this altitude I'm low-13's.
Also needed a 12.99 at Pinks All Out last year. With the gears & converter (and water pump and rims) I had last year, the 100 shot put me right around 12.0, which ended up being the class they picked.
Re: 150 shot N2O , Will the motor hold and what change in ET?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegrassz
Thanks for the unkind words.
As a matter of fact, The mark on the ground strap is in the middle. I was running AC FR3LS and had to have new plugs. I went to Champion RC12YC just so I could keep a better reading log.
Then your timing pointers off or your timing lights malfunctioning. No way your sbc runs best at 40* total, just not happening.
14psi, street tune 
