Hi all, as a third gen newbie I've got a question. I picked up an '87 Z28 with a 305 4bbl and 700R4 for dirt cheap. I run in 24 hour endurance races (road course) and this Camaro is my latest entry. It's undergoing the usual prep right now like stripping it down for weight savings and adding a full cage with safety gear. My question is this: the racing league allows you to spend $500 on building the car (safety not included), and I acquired the car for $250 leaving me $250 to spend on modifications and repair parts. I'll tell you that whatever I can change that can't be seen in a quick tech inspection doesn't count against the $250 (yes, that's cheating), but I still have a tight budget anyway (wife, kids, house, etc.). I already bought a 3.73 gear for the rear end. My other plans were to cut the springs down half a coil, spiff up the tranny, open up the exhaust, port the heads and add 1.6:1 rockers. Remember, the car has to last 24 hours STRAIGHT at 5000 rpm and 100 mph. Durability is more important than outright power. Given this scenario, how would you build the Camaro? Thanks for any input.

Is this for a Lemons race or something else?

And its only cheating if you get caught.

I've raced Lemons before, but the Camaro is for ChumpCar.

How well does a stock Camaro handle on a road course? I figure after weight reductions and the cage I should be at about 2800 lbs. My target hp was 200 so that would give me a lb/hp ratio of 14:1, plenty good enough to outpace almost every car on the track. Of course that's useless if I plow or spin in the corners!

Since endurance is your goal I would make sure your cooling system is up to par. This would include a good radiator, water pump, electric fan(s), and maybe a high capacity oil pan and oil cooler. Make sure you have a cold air intake and that your air damn is in place and functional.

I'm glad I found this forum. I would have never known to keep the air dam on the Camaro for good cooling. Since I have a tight budget, and because the tech guys LOVE to bust people for new radiators, I'll be running all stock cooling parts. I figure it will help to get the condenser out of the way of the radiator. I also think maybe I should help duct more air into the radiator and get more air out of the engine compartment. This is kind of why I didn't really want to go for more than 200hp.

I read in another thread that the L69 dual snorkel air cleaner is the way to go. I haven't had any luck finding one, so I may end up making one out of what I already have. I'll fill it with a K&N.

i do not have much to add right now, other than i would love to drive up and watch you guys run.... could you shoot me some info, or maybe post it up? me and a buddy had talked about doing a lemons race with a thunderbird or something like that but never went through with it.

ill see if i can come up with anything useful/helpful and post up tonight.

I'd love to have someone around who has Camaro experience! We're racing at Rockingham in March, VIR in April and Roebling Road in August. By the way I will be selling spots on the team as I get closer to the race. I've got to add two more drivers to meet the 6 driver minimum. Might be an option for you and your buddy.

Look forward to any input you can think of. I've been challenged by my ex-teammates in their new car (VW Jetta) to prove I can not only make a Camaro last 24 hours, but actually be competitive.

Cold Air Induction for the engine to breathe.....
http://www.thirdgen.org/ramair

If not TPI, that same method can be used for a carb or TBI....
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/galler.../TBI_STB_4.jpg

Shed Weight.....
http://www.thirdgen.org/sheddingpounds

Don't forget to strengthen the body, besides the cage.....
http://www.thirdgen.org/mods4



Lots of good ideas here....
http://www.thirdgen.org/technical-articles

I'd suggest a rear end oil cooler, but no idea how you'd pump the oil, other than with an electric in-line pump of some sort, through an external cooler.

Thanks Stephen! This is exactly what I was looking for. Obviously I have the opportunity to take these ideas to the extreme because this is a dedicated race car, no street use. I like the idea of the rear axle cooler, but I'm not sure it will fit the budget.

I will be doing much of the build up on my week off in October. I have a web site set up to document the car's build and our races. During that week I'll post pictures of my work, but in the meantime here is the site with a few pictures of the car I saved from the crusher.

With the suspension set up right it's better suited to road racing than drag racing.

There's actually a lot of factory up grades that can be done and unless the tech inspector knows these cars well they probably would never see them.

Find a set of IROC 16" wheels if you can... they are 16x8 vs the 15x7 on your Z28
If you get black poly bushings ( sway bars end links control arms etc ) that will help some and won't be obvious that you swapped.

Check your sway bars.. there were a few options with sizes up to 36 and 34 MM in the front. The solid 34MM being the stiffest front bar, with the hollow 36mm next.. this is a good option because it's a bit lighter than the 34 solid.

GM went with slightly softer spring rates on the 1LE cars ( factory road course cars ) from what I have seen. Your Z28 may have simmilar springs, or it may have the stiffer ones. If there is an RPO code sheet in the glove box, that would be helpful in knowing exactly what options you have.

There's a factory option oil cooler which routes water from the heater box through a spacer above the oil filter and then back to the radiator.

82-83 Z28s had an option for a factory fiberglass hood.

good luck with the L69 dual snorkel... an NOS set up recently sold on eBay for over $400 You can make your own using two single set ups and some creativity... there's a few threads on this site about that I'm sure.

I'd think about a trans temp gauge...

Also think about selling stuff you won't use... for instance those plastic hood louvers if you can get them off with out breaking the pegs underneath that the nuts go on.. sell for decent money... same with the fog lights. If those are factory, they get good money.

Some cars had heavy duty cooling, aka dual electric fans... those could be swapped in fairly easy.

I will probably look to upgrade my wheels as well as bushings for the next race. Takes a lot of money up front just to get the car built.

I'll check my RPO codes when I get to the car (I'm storing it in Raleigh, NC right now). I hope I have the softer springs, because they would work better with a lightened car. Since the lighter car will sit higher, I'll also cut the coils about a half a coil to get the car to sit back down where it was supposed to.

The fiberglass hood sounds nice, but I've found that after skinning a hood down to it's bare top (no bracing or insulation), they don't weigh much. I'm holding it on with hood pins so I can pop it off in a hurry.

For my transmission I planned on upping the line pressures, adding an additional cooler and definitely putting a trans temp gauge on the dash bar. I figure the tranny will spend the entire race shifting between 2nd and 3rd.

I'll be slipping some things past the inspectors. Worst case scenario I get hit with a few penalty laps, no big deal. Besides, I can do a good job cooking the books that they'll see!

SO this is for LeMons, correct?

Best advise is to race clean, stay out of trouble and just make laps. What kills you the most is spending time in the penatly box. You don't have to be making the fastest laps to win. The car that won the frist event we went to was an old FX Corolla.

*hint* Springs don't have to be from a Camaro. May want to try sneek some better struts by the inspectors or bring a good bribe.

Get some decent tires that won't chunk.

http://www.witchdoctormotorsports.com/ch128.htm

Actually this is not for Lemons. I've run a Dodge Colt in two Lemons events before with a best finish of 29th. No black flags in two races. This Camaro is for ChumpCar, a new series that is similar to Lemons.

You mention different springs, what springs do you recommend for road racing?

I'm fascinated that you ran a Camaro in Lemons! Better yet, you guys (and girls) finished 2nd. All I keep hearing is that all Chevy V8 cars suck for endurance racing. Overheat, bad brakes, tranny problems, etc. I'm determined to outlast and beat them all!

What was the issue with your carburetor? Having raced a Camaro in one of these endurance races, what mods do you think work best and what do you wish you would have done?

Unfortunatly, I was just one of the crew dogs who didn't have a whole lot of involment in the build. I don't know which ones they ended up using but they had springs from an S-10 from a junkyard and some 1le springs due to the budget. I use 1000lb/200lb for my racecar (Camaro-Mustang-Challenge car) and know some faster guys who run softer.

Brakes on the LeMons car were the stock front rotors with Porterfield pads. Pads were awesome at had plenty left! Tires were Hankook RS2s.

Think your big issue may be the trans, that's why we went with a 305 5spd.

A good mod is the gas tank/fuel cell. Get as much fuel in there as you can so you can stay on track longer. At the last NASA 8 hr race at TWS, a CMC car(4th gen LT1) won the event overall. They had very organized pit stops and jacked up the rear left corner WAY high when fueling to get as much in as possible.

I know we elected to use no power steering, one less thing to go wrong.

As someone else mentioned, get rid of as much weight as possible.

Wish we had not been so last minute with the prop and had more time to shake the car down. Don't know what the issue ended up being with the quadrajet but it got rebuilt after that race.

Put in a T56 & nobody will be the wiser, unless they sit in the car & row through the gears, or really get underneath, look & know what they are looking at.

Since the Firehawks did come with T56s, it TECHNICALLY makes it an available transmission for the 3rd gen chassis. Just dunno how the update/backdate rules are for that.

That's good to hear about the brakes. I was planning on running cross drilled rotors with good pads. Now I know they should last.

I can't say that I liked the idea of the auto, but the price was right and it will make the girls on the team a little more comfortable on the track. I'm hoping that by increasing the line pressure, adding a Corvette apply piston, and a big cooler, that it should work ok.

Was there a manual rack option for the Camaro, or did you guys just disconnect the power steering? Our Colt had factory manual steering and I loved it. I'm sure it would free up a few HP without the pump as well!

Wouldn't that be nice. Unless someone wants to give me one, I can assure you that doesn't fit in my personal budget!

By the way, including the price of the car, I've budgeted $2000 for the construction of this car. Now that I've purchased all the safety gear, it actually looks like I may come in under budget. Of course it helps when you can weld and fabricate yourself!

if your car came stock with ac, you can convert your concenser to a transmission cooler. its really simple, and if you want i can send you a step by step of how i did it. works great for me.