What does it take to run 10s? - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Kyle86 · 10-10-2010, 04:51 PM

What is the most cost effective and reliable way to do it?

AlkyIROC · 10-10-2010, 08:12 PM

Lots of nitrous

blackbmagic · 10-10-2010, 08:45 PM

Motor? Trans? Car? Weight? Gears? We are shooting in the dark here?

Run 10's with what motor? What type of power plant?

There are lots of ways to run 10's be more specfic in future posts.

Kyle86 · 10-10-2010, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbmagic

Motor? Trans? Car? Weight? Gears? We are shooting in the dark here?

Run 10's with what motor? What type of power plant?

There are lots of ways to run 10's be more specfic in future posts.

That's exactly what I meant. What do you think is the most cost effective combo?

Sorry I was so vague. I was thinking engine wise, what would be most cost effective? About how much horsepower is required? Is it possible to do it on pump gas? LS engine with a single turbo, aftermarket block sbc with a lot of nitrous? Big block chevy all motor? I know there are lots of routes to get there, just not sure which would be the most cost effecient.

I know I will have to buy an upgraded rear like a 9" to hold up and suspension upgrades to put the power down, and the gear and stall will likely depend on the engine combonation.

grassyflats · 10-10-2010, 09:57 PM

buy a new zr1

Kyle86 · 10-10-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grassyflats

buy a new zr1

I wish I had $100,000 laying around at the moment, but I figure for a 1/10th of that I ought to be able to at least hang with one.

grassyflats · 10-10-2010, 11:26 PM

not even yet ...0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds
actually it only runs 11.5 @ 128mph in the quarter

chevy lover · 10-10-2010, 11:26 PM

drag car or street car?

jbenge · 10-11-2010, 07:49 AM

The easiest way is with a power adder or a large dispacement engine. I prefer N/A engines just because they are more simple and easy to work on. Nitrous is hard on engines, turbos add a lot of plumbing that makes everything hard to work on. But thats just my opinion there are lots of great power adder combos out there that run great.

I did it with a N/A 383 pump gas SBC. It was a reliable engine that would run high 10's in almost any weather conditions. Its much easier to run 10's with a big block or LSX engine. My next engine is going to be a 408LS engine that should run low 10's N/A

Here are the basics of the 383 combo:
11.1:1 compression
4 bolt splayed main caps
Dart Pro 1 heads fully ported
solid roller cam
yella terra shaft mounted rockers
Vic Jr intake
Hooker super comp headers
850DP carb
12 bolt rear w/ 4.30 gears
th-350
4200 stall converter

cliff1970 · 10-11-2010, 07:52 AM

deep pockets and an endless bank account

AlkyIROC · 10-11-2010, 10:49 AM

Well you did ask what the cost effective way to hit 10's. NOS is still the cheapest way but it's not the most reliable way.

To push a 3500 pound race weight car to 10.99, you'll need to put about 588HP to the wheels. If you wan strip the race weight down to 3200 pounds, you'll only need 538 to the wheels. Either way, that's not cheap to do with a small engine without a power adder and keeping the engine streetable. A completely gutting out race car can go faster with less HP.

Don't forget, dipping under 11.50 means a roll bar so you're adding weight back in which will slow you down.

gtpro700 · 10-11-2010, 11:16 AM

Alky I think those horsepower numbers are crank horsepower numbers and not to the wheels. Because if 538 to the wheel makes a 3200 pound car go 10.99 what is that at the motor over 600 hp? That seems a little to much to only crack 10.99 with a 3200 pound car.

92FBirdVert · 10-11-2010, 11:30 AM

A Geo Metro 1.0L 3 cylinder with 75lbs. of boost. LOL

AlkyIROC · 10-11-2010, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtpro700

Because if 538 to the wheel makes a 3200 pound car go 10.99 what is that at the motor over 600 hp?

Flywheel HP is just bragging rights. The power that gets to the wheels is what moves the car. It's then a basic power to weight formula to calculate how fast it will go in a 1/4 mile.

Orr89RocZ · 10-11-2010, 01:12 PM

Dont need near that much hp to run 10's. 10.99 can be had with 450whp in the right setup. Weights a big factor but my camaro was 3450 with me in it on race slicks/wheels with 8 pt roll bar so it was legal to go 10's.

Dyno'd 400whp on motor and I sprayed a 150 shot to touch 10.60's at over 127mph. Ran 11.4s at 118-119 on motor. So 450whp should easily get down in the high 10's.

87_TA has a all motor 406 that can go 130mph running 10.6's with somewhere around 480-490whp. Dyno'd 468 running abit lean. That setup went 128 so figure around 20-30 more hp for 130 trap. His car may be abit lighter than 3400lbs with him in it tho. I am not sure.

Most cost effective and reliable way would be to build a all forged motor with 150-200 hp shot depending on how deep you want to go into the 10's.

Even a forged piston, cast crank heads/cammed 350 could get in the mid high 11's on motor and spray 150 to touch 10's. That would be the cheapest bet. There are guys with high 11 second stock bottom ends with heads/cam swaps, so if you trust spraying one of those with a 150 hit and the rear end holds, you will go 10's.

Problem is, need the tranny rebuilt and a rear end to reliably hold nitrous shots off the line. I ran well on my stock rear but certainly it wouldnt have lasted too many runs like that.

If you fab work is good, built your own turbo setup and that will make the power you need to go 10's and be somewhat reliable and cheap. Would be killer to swap in a 5.3 truck motor and turbo it. Stock bottom end will handle the boost required to go 10's all day long as long as the tune is good. My buddy ran a LS6 cammed LS1 motor to 10.5's at 130mph in a 4L80E trans 2000 SS camaro. He is a big guy too so that car probably was near 3800-3900 lbs. Dyno'd 500whp on 8psi. I think he ran 12 psi on the mid 10 run. We dont know for sure, doesnt have a boost gauge

DIGGLER · 10-12-2010, 07:56 AM

i went 10.14 using a stock LT1 with a cam. had a 150 shot of nitrous in a 3050-3100lb car. lots of suspension, th400, 9", 28x10.5s, leaving off the footbrake.

85Firebird350 · 10-25-2010, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIGGLER

i went 10.14 using a stock LT1 with a cam. had a 150 shot of nitrous in a 3050-3100lb car. lots of suspension, th400, 9", 28x10.5s, leaving off the footbrake.

What size cam if you dont mind me asking? I'm going the same route while I rebuild my 406 this year. 3100lbs, TH400 4200 converter and a 9" with 4.11's and a spool. Complete UMI suspension out back minus the tq arm.

Fast 383 · 10-25-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlkyIROC

To push a 3500 pound race weight car to 10.99, you'll need to put about 588HP to the wheels. If you wan strip the race weight down to 3200 pounds, you'll only need 538 to the wheels. Either way, that's not cheap to do with a .

I made 373 rear wheel HP and went well into the
10's. That was at 3220 lbs.

Here's my opinion.

If you want to go 10's and be cost efficient, low maintence and not over fusterate yourself here's what I would suggest.

Buy a finished crate style 383 long or short block capable of 400-450 HP and drop it in. Have some fun picking out your top end, exhaust, fuel and misc stuff. Take it to the track and run mid to high 11's on pump gas.
Go to Jegs.com and order up an NOS Cheater kit (150-250) and bolt it on for $546.

You will have an easy ten seconed car. You will not be broke, aggrivated or overwhelmed. You will last a few seasons and probably be able to drive the car to the track no problem. When you get more experience and more serious you can build a killer long block to replace the 383 and run 9's on the NOS.

1BADRZ28 · 10-26-2010, 06:48 PM

383+ cubic inches, 11:1 or better compression, .6xx/.6xx lift non nitrous roller cam. heads that flow 280+ cfm, 750 carb, a good torque converter and gears. at 3400 lbs you will run 10.50's-10.80's. I drove the crap out of mine. 200 shot of spray it went 9.60's.

blackbmagic · 10-26-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BADRZ28

383+ cubic inches, 11:1 or better compression, .6xx/.6xx lift non nitrous roller cam. heads that flow 280+ cfm, 750 carb, a good torque converter and gears. at 3400 lbs you will run 10.50's-10.80's. I drove the crap out of mine. 200 shot of spray it went 9.60's.

No, its possible to run 10's with less than that. The setup you just mentioned is def capable of 9's with spray like you said. High 10's can be done with a good 210cc set of heads large lift cam 750-850 carb, 10:1-11:1 on a 350 full roller. ~4.10 4.11 gear ratio With the right suspension and the right set of tires. I have seen it done plenty before.

1BADRZ28 · 10-27-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbmagic

No, its possible to run 10's with less than that. The setup you just mentioned is def capable of 9's with spray like you said. High 10's can be done with a good 210cc set of heads large lift cam 750-850 carb, 10:1-11:1 on a 350 full roller. ~4.10 4.11 gear ratio With the right suspension and the right set of tires. I have seen it done plenty before.

Of course there are always lesser cubic inch engines that can do it, But my statement was just showing a dummy proof way of doing it. Cubic inches will always get it done without spinning the engine to eternity to make the power. The heads I mentioned were 210cc. If I had a 215+cc heads flowing 285/200 I'd be embarassed these days. 10 years ago that's what they flowed. The velocity has sure gone up on smaller cc heads these days.

blackbmagic · 10-27-2010, 04:37 PM

Yes unfortunately near me its def not cheap to get a block machined and bored to a 383. local places want to charge near 1000$ to machine like that. Also a roller cam retrofit on an early block is not so cheap either. We are looking at at least 4k-5k$ assuming the block is free and you already have an ignition system, an exhaust, and fuel system. This does not include labor assuming you will do all assembly yourself.

It would be much cheaper but also a little less bulletproof to refurbish a 350, new set of 210cc heads, 750cfm carb, and a high lift flat tappet cam headmatched with a new set of lifters/rockers, forged pistons and rods. Could make somewhere close to 450 whp and add a cheater kit 150-200 shot plate system on top there should be no problem creeping into the 10's for under 3.5k assuming you have a platform and you are not including labor.

Kyle86 · 11-02-2010, 11:09 PM

Awesome! Thanks yall.

3rdBird · 11-03-2010, 01:41 AM

I got a 91 TA, that weighs about 2800lbs.w/ a cage. We have factory rear suspension, TH400, 406 sbc, w/ a TPIS MiniRam. We shoot a 100 shot at the throttlebody, and it runs consistant 10.16 @ 137mph, as long as the bottles are full.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mr3rdbird

KNBlazer · 11-03-2010, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grassyflats

not even yet ...0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds
actually it only runs 11.5 @ 128mph in the quarter

A Corvette ZR1? It probably do better with an aftermarket tune.. IIRC Chevrolet always sell their cars with a leash...

mw66nova · 11-04-2010, 07:16 AM

kyle, you still haven't posted if you want to keep it drivable, or if you want basic street car things to fucntion. cause a 2800lb stripped down racecar is much easier to put into the 10's then a 3400lbs street car. also, do you want to go 10.9/8 or go 10.1/0? running 10.9 at 2800lbs can be done with a basic 425ish hp engine with a decent converter and gear.

if you want to still drive the car every day like you do now, i'd probably look at putting a combo together that can run solid high 11's, and put a 150 shot on it. a th400 cause it'll handle the abuse. a quality converter (give Transmission Specialties a call, talk to justin), and a 3.73 ish gear will do it and still provide some streetability.

do you want to stay genI or are you willing to go to a genIII? my baby cammed ls1 (212/219, 115lsa) with basic bolt ons, stilll had stock 241 heads, yadda yadda, went 12.02 @ 112mph on motor. come to find out later, it had 7 bent connecting rods when it ran those numbers!!! i had a vig3600 (which i don't recommend) with a 4l60e and 4.11 gears. the car was uber streetable. would get killer gas mileage and never got hot. i'd imagine that had it not been sick, and i put a basic 150 shot on it, that it would have gone some bottom 11.0x's or so, maybe gone into the 10's a bit.

Kyle86 · 11-05-2010, 12:29 AM

Hey Matt. I'm about to get another vehicle to daily drive. As far as drivability is concerned, the only MUST is that it not overheat during normal driving. I actually plan on going LS1 pretty soon in the IROC. The 383 is cool and all but it's a 2-bolt with studs and I don't feel like it can reliably handle much more than it's pushing now. Do you think the exhaust system you built can be made to work with LSx headers, or will I need a totally new setup?

I'll make the first goal 10.99 ha. With the weight issue, I can go either way. I can use the IROC, but I want to keep a stock looking interior and exterior. Right now it weighs 3435 without me. I also have a gutted camaro. I don't know how much it weighs, but it's nothing but sheet metal. I was just trying to get a feel for what it takes to go fast.

mw66nova · 11-05-2010, 06:41 AM

i'm currently running a stock fbody water pump and a stock thirdgen radiator. i'm running a dual fan assembly from a 300zx and the car almost never goes over 185*...even over the summer. i don't drive this as a daily anymore, but i won't hesitate to go anywhere in a 35mile radius. the car could probably go further, but that puts me outside of mycomfort zone since i don't typically have tools in the camaro, and would be a hassle to get anyone to me if i needed help with something.

your exhaust will need modifications to work, but i can do it...you might consider selling the longtubes/exhaust as a whole system and i can build you another setup...a dual 3" x-pipe would be a bit better suited to a 10.99 goal.

your car is about 285lbs heavier than my car, but i'm 300lbs, and i don't think you're over 200, so going down the track your only about 185lbs heavier than i am. put my combo in your car and that's still 11.1x's (ON MOTOR!). if you can get about 200lbs out of the car somewhere (wheels/tires combo, hood, and some creative stuff in the interior will get you there) then it'd make your goal a bit easier. you could potentially do a budget copy of my build. a stock lq9 shortblock with arp bolts, a set of 243 heads, and a well picked cam/converter/gear will run upper/mid 11's at your weight. 150shot on top of that, boom, well into the 10's.

a stripped down racecar is no fun on the street...

oh, don't forget you'll add weight to the car when you have to put safety equipment in it. 11.49 and quicker you'll need bare minimum a 5pt roll bar. a 9" rear won't be far behind...

joeblue83 · 11-06-2010, 03:57 PM

why don't you suggest a vigilante converter. Best one I ever used, and well liked on this board?

mw66nova · 11-06-2010, 05:23 PM

terrible customer service first off, then add the 13+% slippage on top of that...i'll never use them again. when i called them with questions about a restall, i was spoken to as a child.

joeblue83 · 11-06-2010, 09:22 PM

completely the opposite with me, very little slippage, when I had it restalled great customer and got it back in less than 2 weeks.

KWIK84 · 11-07-2010, 11:07 AM

~1:5 hp to weight ratio will get it done with our cars usually as long as the suspension is setup.

My plan is 383
afr 195's
roller cam mid .550ish lift
~11:1 comp
th400
4.30 gear
keeping the revs under 6500 for durability.

Light weight, and a decent suspension setup.

88IROC350TPI · 11-07-2010, 12:09 PM

here is pretty much my entire combo. It'll put you into the low 10's on a 150 shot no doubt in a 3500lb car

10.5:1 350 with scat cast crank, scat rods, and srp forged pistons

Canfield 200cc heads

Cam Motion solid flat-tappet grind# S2601-2661-10+4

Professional Products Hurricane intake

750 Speed Demon (mech secondary) jetted up 2 sizes from stock

MSD probillet locked out at 35*

hooker super comps into flowmaster 3" catback with a cutout

3.92 gear, 27x10.5" slick, th350 with a $350 "torco" brand converter (art carr sells them now) that stalls around 4500 on spray

The car's only suspension/chassis mods were spohn non-adjustable LCAs and the front sway bar removed - Everything else is all stock and the car didn't even have subframe connectors or a rollbar. It went a best of 11.25 @ 121mph on motor and 10.68 @ 127mph on a 100 shot that had a bad ground wire so the solenoids kept cutting in and out. Absolutely no doubt that this car could have gone into the 9's on a bigger shot and a little better suspension. It also ran on 92 octane, got about 13-14mpg, and was 100% street friendly. I imagine putting this in a 3000lb car with the right gears/stall would run around in the 10.70's on motor alone.

Here it is in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrQiwA1zr9Y