craig71188

After deciding our 5.0L 1LE (ex-Firestone Firehawk showroom stock enduro) car would not be competitive in ESP (nor CP with the 5.0L), I started looking into the ST & SM classes a little deeper. Since STX had a 5.0L limit it looked promising. After "refactoring" our times from last year in ESP (better tires, but not any engine mods yet), the car would have been very competitive in the class and in PAX. As I started to work up a plan for this year I made some inquiries with SCCA about issues with the cage in the car - not a problem, but the 2014 move to STU was pointed out to me. I spoke to Doug Gill at SCCA and he did not have a great explanation (my opinion, Doug is a great guy and very open) so we agreed a request for a rules change was the only real option for me. To that end, I have submitted a rules change request - letter number and text below. I will let everyone know when this comes up for member comment and I would appreciate any support.


Letter ID Number: #13767
Title: Camaro/Firebird/Mustang V6 & 5.0L V8 move to STU
Class: STXRequest: In the 2014 Solo II rules ALL Camaro/Firebird/Mustangs were moved to STU. It would seem by the nature of the classes and the "NOC" vehicle guidelines at the end of each section that the V6 & 5.0L V8 models of these vehicles should remain in STX, while the 5.1L and up should make the move to STU.


Why would the board want to alienate owners /orphan the smaller displacement cars when such breakouts of models/displacements is quite common for other makes (BMW 3 Series vs. M or turbo vs. non-turbo of the same model). It would seem the precedent is set and it would be only fair to keep these cars in the class that would be consistent with the classes NOC engine displacement guidelines.


I'm sure member feedback will be sparse as not many folks run these vehicles in ST - in fact many folks on enthusiast boards for these cars are thought to be foolish for trying. After reviewing the rulebook for a good home for my ex-Showroom Stock enduro Camaro, STX seemed to be a place it had a reasonable chance of being competitive. It also looked fun to be in a class with a variety of makes. ESP is not a viable option for the 5.0L (especially in light of the 3rd Generation "Firehawk" being allowed. I do no how a vehicle with an optional 383 aluminum small block of which only 3 are thought to have been produced would be classed (but that's another discussion). CP falls into a whole other realm. Going the other way, F-Stock is an option, but again, newer, larger displacement cars are an obstacle.


Please review what I feel is an oversight in the rules making process and return these small displacement models to a class where there owners can have a reasonable expectation of being competitive.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

If anything, I would think that a 350 car would be a handicap in STU being that they only came with automatics. I run my '91 Z28 with its LB9/T5 and feel that while I'm at a small disadvantage being put against Evo's and STI's, the extra allowed tire width keeps our cars somewhat competitive. Last year I placed 2nd in the Oregon Region with a sub par tire. This year I expect to do much better now that I'll be running BFG Rivals.

slow305

iTrader: (2)

When were the 383 Firehawks allowed in ESP? An upcoming change? Published in a FasTrack? In the current rulebook they are specifically classed in BSP.

IMO, you'd be better off just running the car in ESP with the rest of the pony cars. I tried my old LB9 WS6 in STX 10 years ago and realized autocrossing a 3,300+ pound pony car on street tires was dumb.

Pat

craig71188

I saw the Firewawk specifically listed in ESP without an exclusion for the 383 - I didn't look at BSP (errors & omissions correction?). I mentioned the 383 in two separate discussions with SCCA and they never brought it up either.

As far as STX being a great choice - it still beats STU, and the 5.oL & V6 are better fits, competitive or not (and more so than they will be in STU)

I started out autocrossing a '69 Camaro SS (350/300) 30 years ago the so called "street tires" are soooo much better than what we ran on it really doesn't bother me. Looking at our raw time from last year with the STX PAX applied - we are competitive. The car is still largely in showroom stock trim. All the mods we plan to do for STX will carry over into ESP if we decide to move up. We'll wait and see what the BOD says...

slow305

iTrader: (2)

B Street Prepared
Pontiac
Fiero (V6)
Firebird Firehawk SLP (3rd gen, 383cid) (1990-92)
Firebird Firehawk SLP (4th gen, 383cid) (1993-2002)

E Street Prepared
Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick, & Oldsmobile
Camaro & Firebird (1967-70)
Camaro & Firebird (1970½-81)
Camaro, Firebird, & Firehawk (1982-92) (3rd gen)
Camaro, Firebird, SS, Firehawk, & WS6 (1993-2002) (4th gen)

Meaning that you could run one of the 25 or 26 thirdgen Firehawks with the aluminum block 350 in ESP or build the same motor and put it in any 1982-1992 F-Body.

Pat

craig71188

Yep, looked deeper into it after the last couple of posts. Point being, this car is fun as is in 1LE trim, I would prefer not to invest in building a larger motor just for SOLO II when I can run it in IT as is. I realize dual purpose cars will never be as good as those built for one purpose - but since both classes pay such big prize money (HA!) - We're just in it for fun - but it's more fun to have more of a chance to compete, that's all.

For those that want to run ESP, great! CP is fun to. I just think the V6 & 5.0 should have a place to run "as is" where they have more of a chance to be competitive.