anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Who makes a 5-pt roll bar (for cars running 10.99 and slower) with swing out/removable drivers bar ?

-- Joe

AlkyIROC

A 5 point bar just doesn't have the passenger side bar. Buy any 6 point bar and don't install the passenger side.

As for a swingout, it's an add on kit to any rollbar/cage.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ahh.. Gotcha.

Who makes a 6-pt bar for our cars ? The ones summit sells appear to be generic.

-- Joe

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

Alot of these are pretty generic. Usually the main hoop is close, but long, so you can cut to length, after that its a lot of straight bars. If you want something a bit more specialized then you will either need to head to a chassis shop, or have access to a bender.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I do have a bender, but I kind of wanted to buy a specific kit. I'll shop around.

Thanks!

-- Joe

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

S&W race cars makes the nicest one imo.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

They also make the pre bent door bars. You can add to there bars. Or any other bar kit..(I have there's)

AlkyIROC

A proper mandrel tubing bender or one of those inexpensive bow and arrow type pipe bender? To get the proper bends without crushing the tubing, you need a mandrel bender.

A 5/6/8 point roll bar is made from 1-3/4" tubing. 0.120 DOM or 0.134" ERW. The back brace is only 1-1/2". When making a full cage, all the main tubes are only 1-5/8" tubing. Secondary tubes can be smaller depending where they are.

As mentioned above, S&W probably makes the best vehicle specific roll bar/cage kits. The cost of the kits are cheap. Shipping can get expensive because of the weight of all the steel. The cost of installation is where it gets more expensive. Having a shop install it, you can estimate $100-$150 per point for labor.

When I build my last cage, I ordered the main hoop, halo bar and a-pillar tubes. The rest of the tubing required is straight and I bought it locally so I didn't get dinged high shipping costs. I never did use the a-pillar tubes because I changed the design layout but I eventually used them for something else. I also reused a bunch of the bent tubing from my last cage when building the new one.

Doing a roll bar is much easier. Figure out where you want the points to be. There is no exact location. You then need to weld some 6"x6"x1/8" plates to the sheetmetal. They don't need to be flat, just as long as there's at least 2 feet of weld holding them to the floor. You then cut to length and notch the tubing and weld it to the plates. How hard depends on where the plates are positioned and how much interior needs to be removed to do all the welding.

No kit is a 100% perfect fit. Every tube will need to be cut to length depending on exactly where you want to position the tubes. I cut my tubes with a chop saw or a reciprocating saw depending on the angle I needed and I notched all my tubing with a 4" disk grinder. The straight tubes in a kit will come pre-notched but overlength.

Gumby

Secret to the cheap benders is making the dies fit your pipe proper, know a guy who makes motorcycle & sandrail frames with a $59 HF pipe bender.

You have to make the pipe fit the die tight and extend the sides up past the center line of the sides. It can't crush or buldge out, it has to bend right.

thing folks forget is stock, those are just made to bend black pipe, its much thicker and the sloppy dies it comes with are fine. real pipe or tubing will just fold over instead of bending with out a proper fit die.

kinda like doing brake lines, with out proper support, it just kinks.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

The one summit sells is a Competition Engineering kit. I've installed 2 of these and i feel like they fit pretty decently.

I've also installed an S&W kit though and it was very very nice.

LB9GTA

iTrader: (1)

Another vote for S&W.
I just got a cage installed in my car.

And go for the chrome moly!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks guys for the responses!

Chrome moly sounds great, but I don't feel like hanging upside down TIG welding it in the car. I imagine the main hoop can be welded outside, but the rear struts, crossover, etc all need to be welded in the car. I like TIG welding when I can sit at my bench

I'll go with the S&W kit.

So If I'm clear on the 2014 NHRA rulebook, 11.00 or slower requires:

* 5-pt bar
* Fire Jacket meeting SFI 3.2A/1 Specification
* Seat belts meeting SFI Specification 16.1 within 2 years expiration
from date of manufacture. (can these be attached to the bar ?)
* DS Loop, Radiator catch can, battery hold down
* Transmission shield/blanket meeting SFI Specification 4.1
* Screw-in valve stems

Then it looks like 10.99 to 10.00 gets kinda crazy with engine diapers, c-clip eliminators, aftermarket axles, SFI balancer.


With the 9lbs spring in the wastegate, it should make around 600hp at the flywheel. Figure 3700lbs total weight, I'm thinking the car will run somewhere between 11.20 and 11.40 ?

-- Joe

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

a 9" would solve the aftermarket axle and c-clip eliminator thing all at once. at 600hp/3700lbs, are you really thinking a 10 bolt will live that long? would you want to hurl that down the track without c-clip elims? lol.

sfi balancer is easy

the engine diaper thing...nobody in the 10's that i know of has one. i've been considering a belly pan myself, which will suffice in-lieu of a diaper.

you can attach the seat belts to the bar

5 pt bar should be good to 10.00

FRMULA88

It really depends on how hard you local track techs-in the test & tune / bracket race cars.

If you show up at a national event you can expect tech to be in every orifice...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well, I guess that depends. I figure with street tires and a sloppy converter it would never hook hard enough to break a 10 bolt. I could always look at it the way you suggest, if the 10 bolt breaks swap in a 9" and I'm good for 10.00 ET.

I have DISC brakes, so, I'm not too worried about a wheel flying off at 130mph

I don't know how the whole engine diaper thing works but my turbo crossover is under my pan, and ground clearance is at a premium as it is.


-- Joe

90camaro355rs

Remember if you buy strange engineering sells c clip eliminators they are nice and easy to install, never installed them on a disk brake rear though.

FRMULA88

c clip eliminators are a band aid. They solve one design flaw BUT do not do anything to strengthen the 10 bolt rear end. this is a MUST for a stonger 12 bolt but a waste of money on a 10 bolt.

These cars have the small 10 bolt with the 7 3/4 ring gear... its' not a matter of "if" it will fail it's a matter of "when" will it fail. The 9 bolt is not much stronger at all, it just came with disc brakes. swapping in a 4th gen 10 bolt is replacing old junk with new junk.. it's stil a 7 3/4 ring gear.

Best thing to do is swap in a 12 bolt or 9" Ford and not worry about ever again.

Murphy's Law the 10 bolt will fail at a track outing and you drove the car and have to pay for the tow home.. some smart alleck will say that's what AAA is for,, have fun pushing broken car out of the track.. AAA wont tow a broken race car..

Not wishing bad luck but it will happen sooner or later.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

^^^i wouldn't waste the time or effort for c-clip eliminators on a 10 bolt honestly.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I hear you. I've broken things at the track.

I trailer my car to the track though. Electric winch on trailer.

-- Joe

AlkyIROC

My header tubes come too close to my block/starter. I tried fitting a diaper on my car and it wasn't possible. I fabricated a belly pan and tech likes it especially when it contained parts and most of the oil from my last engine failure. I want to redesign it again slightly before putting it back on the car. After an engine failure, I can see what works and what doesn't even though it already exceeds minimum specifications.

The turbo tube may be tricky but the belly pan isn't like a drain pan. It's designed to catch fluid but is also allowed to have notches cut in the sides for steering or suspension parts to pass through. The pan is lined with spill pads, pig matting etc to catch and adsorb the fluids that get into the pan. The notches I have in the sides for the tie rods will never be an issue of an overfull pan leaking out.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

the last 10 bolt broke/let go. on me in 3rd gear...not a fun ride to a stop.
sorta like 10 angry chimps with hammes beating on your car.

it took out a sprag in the tranny. U joints & converter....

ya never know when it's time is up...but you will know when its time was up!

hitmanb88

.

Beeman

My headers on my Camaro are almost touching the block, with a little work and a good diaper I've had a diaper on my car for years now. I bought a DRE and it has Kevlar so the pipes just discolor it on the Kevlar panels. You can break a lot of parts on your car and never damage the body or test the roll cage. Have a lotor let go at the top end without a $200 diaper and you might get to test the roll bars. My car runs mid 6's in the 1/8 with more cage than it needs and a diaper, haven't had to test either luckily.