Ok guys this is a big one Bill 1397 THe area I quoted from is basically saying we are going to be changing our emissions to be like Cali & if they change their rules we change ours as well. Can we say Washington state is becoming like sheep?
Quote:
The department of ecology shall adopt rules to implement the emission standards of the state of California for passenger cars, light duty trucks, and medium duty passenger vehicles, and shall amend the rules from time to time, to conform to the requirements of the federal clean air act.
Also this means that if this gets passed anyone that has done any mods to their car that doesnt have the OE number on their cowl (*** I hope I am saying this right) Their car is no longer legal to drive on the roads. Can I say good by to over 5k worth of work done on my car?????? And I know many of you have even more done!!!!!!
Call this number 1.800.562.6000. tell them who you are, where you live at (county or city) & that you are against this bill, then you hand the phone over to the next person in your household (or office or where ever you are) & have them do the same thing. Any person who is old enough to vote can weigh in on this.
For ever 1 person that calls its like 100 votes.
Let's face it, this time we have to speak up or they will take away our rights and our hobby.
Well, I agree, I don't like the law, and Washington adopting a law like that, I'm sure Oregon will soon follow.
But I would like to point out, that the modifications on your car, currently do not comply with the federal clean air act. You just live in an area that you can get away with it. Your car, in its current state, is illegal to drive.
Just because they adapot the Cali standard, doesn't suddenly make your car illegal. The only real change that would effect people, is if they changed the testing procedure.
One individual's car is not really the point, Dewey. Krazzy's car did pass a sniffer test, though (it was checked out in order to have Blood Enterprises work on it). That sniffer test is all that should matter.
I would not have such a problem with expanding the areas that do require the sniffer test, although the idea behind these laws is to improve air quality and the area we live in is consistantly rated good by the EPA (good is their highest rating). Usually when it drops below that it is due to pollen count. And removing cars from the road won't help that.
As for Oregon following suit, they are already receiving pressure from hard core environmentalists. This kind of insanity has to be stopped now.
California has legislation to remove the rolling 30 year exemption from testing, lower hydrocarbon levels as well as a few other surprises.
Already certain aftermarket parts manufacturers won't certify their parts for California. It costs too much and is a major pain. How many parts have we seen that were labeled as '49 state' compliant?
Everyone, this is not about whether one or two cars would pass a sniffer test. This involves visual inspections, maintaining records of modifications, dealing with referees, and more to follow.
California is not Washington or Oregon. Their needs are different from ours. I don't want someone in Sacremento deciding what is best for my home.
Originally posted by zhawk Krazzy's car did pass a sniffer test, though (it was checked out in order to have Blood Enterprises work on it). That sniffer test is all that should matter.
With the HSR, the EGR provisions have been removed. Altering any factory emmisions equipment, regardless of testing, is technicly in violation of the federal clean AIR act.
Don't take me the wrong way here. I know we have had communication issues in the past. I agree with you guys 100% on this. I was just pointing out, that by the letter of the law, the car is illegal. Although in the spirit of the law, it is burning clean enough to pass.
Quote:
California has legislation to remove the rolling 30 year exemption from testing
Oregon has already done this. For emmisions testing areas, all cars newer than 1975 must pass the emmisions standards (which certain counties have CHANGED, my car, was expected to burn cleaner than what the emmision limits for it where in 1990.)
I understand where you are coming from. And I agree, technically her car doesn't meet guidelines. That's why I think the sniffer test should be all that matters. If you can build up a car that passes the test it should be legal.
Heck, Washington state doesn't even want you to change cats even if the new one is compliant.
I didn't know that Oregon was heading this way so quickly. The problem with the new Cal legislation is that cars from the 60s and even earlier will be forced into testing. Can you imagine a 57 BelAir being failed?
As for those communication problems, I consider them in the past and I hope you and the other Cascade Crew members do as well. I enjoyed hanging on the forum with you guys and meeting those I could. There was just some friction (mostly because of another club that Tammy and I are very much part of) and some misunderstandings about invitations to events and such. What's done is done.
If you or any or the other Cascade Crew wants to talk I am almost always available (the Air Force has kept me busy).
Oh one other thing, some of the pressure being put on Washington by those enviro groups is such
Quote:
California, Washington, and Oregon combined make up the 7th largest pullution area in the world.
That's a quote from an article I read last night. California alone has the worst problem. They add Washington and Oregon in there to add pressure on those states. Might as well as Nevada, Arizona, Idaho, etc. to force them into line.
I have nothing against California believe me but their problems are not the same as ours and each area should find what works for them, I think.
There are not any hard feelings at all, Don't worry about that.
I agree, I wish the sniffer test was all there was too (in fact in oregon, they didn't visual my car), but they tightened the test up so much, my car had no chance to pass (In fact, a DEQ employee told me, they changed to rules, to get cars like mine off the road). I was forced to regester the car else where. The whole thing pisses me off, because my was compliant to every letter of the law, and would have passed the sniffer test, for the old standards.
The laws in CA made in huge impact in air quality. They were made for good reason. Although it still is the worst, if not for the laws it would be way way worse. I lived there and moved because my son developed breathing problems. Looking down into the Central Valley from the Sierras all you saw was a big bowl of mud. This area is the worse in the state. On a rare clear day you could see the coastal range.
WA is heading this way and fast. I work currently in Issaquah and can see Seattle from the hill here. I see the same dirty air from up here, although not as thick (yet). Its mostly from auto exhaust compounded 10 fold by the inability to solve traffic congestion.
Adopting CA laws may not be the best solution, but something must be done. Dirty air causes major health problems, especially in children and the elderly. We cannot continue to pollute with disregard for our children and their children.
...and plan to move to northern OR in the next couple of years (family, nice air, wonderful people/places, what have you). I too am worried about the air since I do not want to see things up north approach the status "enjoyed" by the San Joaquin area down here, from the poor air to the misguided response. I am building my car up accordingly now.
I'm all for clean air, but as stated above, the sniffer should determine if a car is clean. LS1s made after 2000(?) had tuning/camming that made the EGR system unnecessary. IF I get my L98 that clean without EGR, who is to say that it is bad for the air? Food for thought, then again I have yet to have morning coffee...
I'm all for clean air. I love the northwest, and outdoor beauty we all get to enjoy. My problem is not with emmissions. Its with the execution of some of these laws. If they really want to clean things up, start with the thousands of cars that are not registered, but driving on the roads. Not with me, because my car doesn't have EGR, or I have a diffrent intake manifold. My car with the cam, intake, exaust, and a proper tune, would have passed the sniffer test a couple of years ago. Now it will not, because although it tested cleaner than the day it came off the factory, the standards I was expected to mean, were more higher than what the car was expected to do new. IMHO that is not right.
I read someplace that just a handfull of cars produce the majority of the dirty air (4% produce 90% of it or something close). You may have been behind one, the chokeing oil burners that the poor SOB has to drive because he has nothing else and no other means to get places.
Ken, get out of Bakersfield before the gang bangers or the air kills you!
You wont find a nicer place to live than up North and most of the people may shock you, they are actually kind to fellow humans
Last edited by 85 T/A WS6 : 03-30-2005 at 10:28 AM.
Originally posted by 85 T/A WS6 I read someplace that just a handfull of cars produce the majority of the dirty air (4% produce 90% of it or something close). You may have been behind one, the chokeing oil burners that the poor SOB has to drive because he has nothing else and no other means to get places.
Exactly, IMHO if they were serious about this, they would do away with the emmisions execpt status for low income people. I hate to say it, but you can't blame good running V8's for the polution, and penalize those owners, and not look at the fact, that you are allowing some enivronmental desasters to continue to drive, just because their owner falls into the 'low income' catagory.
Oh, you betcha. I don't like wishing I had a CCW permit every time my wife and I go out to dinner. Up in OR/WA the people don't seem concerned with flash, more genuine. And Portland REALLY knows how to lay out a city. If you can use a compass and read English, you don't need a map.
Sorry, off-topic: Government responses to issues up north of here seem more common-sensical and less emotional than they do here. My auto license renewal has a flyer in it to inform me that "test only" cars are "likely to be gross polluters", yet both my H/C/I 5.0 and the mildly worked Formy never failed. A buddy called the DMV about his 5.0, which he has owned since 1982 and uses to collect show trophies. Every two years, test only. Every two years, easy pass. They basically told him to get bent. Testing works, but the system has been extended too far in the PRK.
For me, if it's clean on the rollers, let it wear the plates. If it isn't clean, fix it, give it to someone who will, or flatten it.
John, what you didnt read was that yes it effects New cars as of 2009 but cars already on the road will most likely have to ahear to the rules as of July of this year.
That was Not in there but was talked about in one of the talks they had at the capital. I have someone at work who this will greatly effect since he not only has classic cars but owns several vintage cars as well.
he was already contacted by the state about getting rid of the cars or making them Emission legal.
Exactly, IMHO if they were serious about this, they would do away with the emmisions execpt status for low income people. I hate to say it, but you can't blame good running V8's for the polution, and penalize those owners, and not look at the fact, that you are allowing some enivronmental desasters to continue to drive, just because their owner falls into the 'low income' catagory.
but yeah, i agree. it's crap that poor people have a license to polute. some rich people feel that they do too...
when i was getting the v6 through emissions back in early 2005, they insisted on driving it for me (somthing i will no longer allow them to do after the way they ground the gears) there was a woman getting her 2000 mercedes benz tested ahead of me and IT FAILED. it had failed the last five times according to her conversation with the DEQ help. i could not help but overhear her conversation..
WOMAN:"... but i ahve spent over $900 trying to get this car to pass, new o2 sensor, new converter, new everything, i mean, whats the give up point here?"
DEQtesterguy: "mam, there is no give up point. your car is poluting like crazy, if it can't pass the test it can't drive, this is the air we breath are talking about..."
WOMAN: cutting him off "this is rediculouse!"
at this pont she had begun to raise her voice and he stopped trying to talk sense and turned to me:
DEQGUY "sir your all done, you passed, not many of these things pass, congratulations"
ME: offended at his harsh words about fbodys (no for real it pissed me off) "yeah, ...thanks" (thinking "i know how to maintain my car a-hole" shoulda said it.)
WOMAN: looks at firebird, looks at mercedes.....
ME
getting back to polotics... if it puts out good emmissions (standards are the same for all engines right?) it should not matter WHAT is under the hood. supercharged 500CID BBC or 2.8L v6... it's clean, it drives.
Last edited by Xophertony : 05-26-2006 at 05:07 AM.
The thing that makes me upset, is these retro active laws that are being passed right now. In multnomah county, we had a RETRO income tax that went thru, so I had to pay for 2 years worth of county income tax, without a single cent of my check being withheld, and with little warning.
We are chaning emmisions laws, so cars that were built legaly, and maintained well, cannot pass emissions, because they up and changed that standards.
I just lost my house at the coast, that was willed to my family by our grand parents, because the state of Oregon changed the laws on Living Trusts, so an estate that was legal 8 years ago, when my Grandma died, is now not legal, and had to pay 8 years of retro-active taxes. We owed the state so much money, that we had to sell the house to cover it.
I honestly have a very serious problem, with laws being passed that make things that are perfectly legal one day, illegal the next. Change the laws, so that all new cars have to comply to something, fine. Change the laws and add a tax, fine, but don't charge me for 2 years of retro income. Change the laws on wills, and have it effect any new wills, fine, but don't punish people who were compliant with the law 8 years earlier, by changing the law now.
Good God Dewey. I can't believe that OR has become so much like its neighboring state to the south. If government would use the money properly in the first place, they wouldn't need to steal more from us. Hopefully enough folks will wake up soon and vote for humans and not cash-driven robots of the state.
our government is prety much run by big bussness at this point and i am getting damn pissed about it.
by the people for the people no more, now it runs more like this:
a government bought by big bussness for big busness.
if all of our old cars become illegal they can sell us new ones. i am not saying the auto industry is behind this, in fact i am sure they would opose it, since they have to build cars to stricter standards as well. but if we all buy new cars we all pay taxes on those new cars. it all goes into the coffers, and then is given to big bussness in the form of tax brakes, which is then given to politicians in the form of bribes, oh i mean "campagn controbutions". in a roundabout way they are lining there own pockets.
atleast thats my take on it. as a student of political behavior i think i am right, but am of course willing to accept the fact that i am flat wrong. it could be that some polotician just has a bowling pin in his *** about muscle car guys. maybe he used to get made fun of in highschool for driving a VW bug or somthing.
on the other hand it IS good for the environment to lower the emmisssions of ALL cars. but C'mon.. like john said 90% of the polution is caused by 10% of the cars. and it's not our ten percent.
these crackpot theorys brough to you by Xophertony.
looks at firebird, looks at mercedes.....
it all goes into the coffers, and then is given to big bussness in the form of tax brakes, which is then given to politicians in the form of bribes, oh i mean "campagn controbutions". in a roundabout way they are lining there own pockets. 
