mike_c

iTrader: (13)

I've been looking at aftermarket strut mounts for a while. From personal experience or even an engineering standpoint, who offers the best strut mount? Spohn or J&M (also known as the Hotpart strut mount) Quality, performance and fitment wise. If you've tried any of these, please say how it worked out.

The Spohn mount:


Directly from their website:

"These fabricated steel upper strut mounts for the 1982-1992 F-Body feature a QA1 chrome moly spherical bearing with a TeflonŽ/KevlarŽ self lubricating race. We have also built an extra 1/4" of negative camber adjustment into the mounts. The mounts feature CNC machined components and are precision welded. We even include stainless steel mounting nuts!

The mounts are 1" taller than stock to provide extra strut travel for lowered and non-lowered cars. A must for those looking to do some serious corner carving, and you can't beat the trick look they provide to your engine bay!

Specifications:

CNC cut 1/4" steel base plate
4" DOM steel tubing
CNC cut 3/16" steel top hat
CNC machined bearing mount tube - TIG welded
High quality QA1 chrome moly spherical bearing with a TeflonŽ/KevlarŽ self lubricating race
Underside of strut mount includes a coil over spring mount as a std. feature.
Powder coated gloss black for a brilliant and durable finish"

The J&M mount:


Directly from Hawks:

"Needing to take control of your Camaro or Firebirds front suspension. Do it by using a set of J&M Products adjustable caster and camber plates. J&M plates replace the stock rubber strut mount bushings with a spherical bearing, allowing you full control of the suspension geometry. Whether you want your alignment set for track, street, or strip, these plates will allow you to fine tune your suspension so you can get the most out of your car. The bearing mounts are completely adjustable and are 100% Pulse Mig welded for the ultimate in strength, durability, and fit. They also feature a special chrome moly replaceable teflon lined spherical bearing for a noise free quality ride. Now coming with a LIFETIME WARRANTY from craftsmanship and defects. That is right if you are the original owner can bend the plates or wear out the bearings they will be fixed or replaced for free.

J&M Products plates include the following features:

LIFETIME GUARANTEE against bearing failure and main plate bending or breaking.
Slots for adjusting caster and camber independently.
Easy adjustment for Street and Race applications.
Replaceable highest strength chrome moly teflon-lined spherical bearings for noise free performance.
Powder coated for great looks and long lasting protection."

Factory mounts for reference:


How do the Spohn mounts offer more adjustability than the factory parts? They just look like stronger factory mounts. Not a bad thing, but I don't see how they offer more adustability. On the other hand, it's easy to see how the J&M mounts are more adustable than the original mounts. Spohn says it's mount provides an extra inch of strut travel for lowered cars. My car isn't lowered, and it probably never will be. Will this negatively affect handling? I'll be using Tokico Illumina struts. Are there any known compatability issues with either type of mount and these struts?

Thanks for the input,
Mike

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

these are good if u have lowered the car and are willing to put the $$ down to make it handle better, not to mention its better for the car. the adustability im not sure. maybe they meant they where built with the 1/4" neg camber adjustability already set... who knows. call them or email them.

the J&M mount shows alot more adjustability and looks more trick but idk if i trust those 4 lil bolts to hold the top adjustability.

u dont need these unless u have lowered the car bc lowering the car pushes the strut piston farther into the strut/shock bc the stance is lower and the rod is already farther down, this also limits the travel of the rod and easily can bottom out and destroy a new strut easily. this gives the strut rod/piston the extra inch of travel that u take away when lowering. both look like good peices but theres no need for yours if u havent lowered it. save ur money

steve's Z28

I have the Spohn Strut Mounts on my 1991 Camaro Z28. So far I've had them for a year now with no noise issues. The only thing I remember the from J&M is that their strut mounts wouldn't fit on Bilstein struts, which I'm using on my car. My car is street/daily driver. I would call J&M directly to find out if it will work on you Tokico gas shocks. Their number is 805-239-1558. J&M offers a lifetime warranty on their product vs Spohn offering no warranty. But I chose Spohn because I was using Bilstein struts. The spohn strut mounts are taller than oem to allow for more strut travel and will accomodate a coil-over setup. The feel was like night and day my car feels really good with excellent steering response. Also installing the rear panhard bar and rear lower control made a difference too in handling. Hope this helps

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I bought the Spohn mounts because they are made taller, to allow for more strut travel on lowered cars.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

I am all stock and need new Strut mounts where can I get a good buy on the Spohn mount?

Thanks
G

hotpart

The J&M mounts work with any strut including the bilstein.

Those four little screws are the same size that the factory uses to hold down the whole camber plate assembly to keep it from moving and they are only using 3 of them. There is a difference because we also use 180,000 psi bolts instead of grade 10.9 which are only 150,000 bolts. We have never had one move on a street car or the race cars that use our plates.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

From Spohn's website?

JamesC

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I plan on putting some koni yellows on my car and replacing the strut mounts and springs. I'm torn between Spohn and J&M. I like the fact that Spohn offers the extra inch to compinsate for lowered cars but I also like the fact that J&M is willing to give a lifetime warrenty. If someone could find out what benefit the 1/4" of negative camber gives/means that would be great. I guess so far I'm leaning toward J&M just because of the warrenty.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Thought i would add some input, I was concerned with daily drive use and ride quality,here's some info and great points...


My question is, does the added 1 inch travel of Pshon's units compensate for better comfort/ride quality vs. the dampening/absorbing effect the OEM?rubber mounts have?

RU-QWIK

iTrader: (3)

I have J&M's on my Camaro ( Thank you Brian !! ) He used my car to do the mock up for prototyping these things. He has since revised them and they are even better than the old version I have... The version I have is far better than factory, so the newer, shown above, will assure you a great part!

If it matters, I am running Koni red struts on the front...

Jason

EGG

I have the J&M strut mounts, but yet to go on the car. Might be a job for this weekend, so I'll post how it goes if I get onto it.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

If I remember Dean is running the Spohn mounts currently, and is switching over to the J&M ones. He pokes around here once in a while, and will probably comment. I think he mentioned something about it in another thread. Lemme look.

Edit: Found the thread.

Linky: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...rut-mount.html

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Ok you guys I am sold and went with the J&Ms. I will post as soon as I get them in.

Hmmmm maybe now I will go for new struts tooo... WHy can't one thing not lead to another arggggggggggggggggg

stage20

iTrader: (3)

ive seen where PA racing is also selling a set of mounts as well.
they are decently priced, but ive seen some pics..... welds are not up to par with what id want on my car. not saying his welds wont hold, they just arent show quality.

i chose the spohn versions based on his coilover kit.
dont think you can go wrong either way. quality pieces.

SLP_GTA

iTrader: (1)

why does the J&Ms use spacers where the spohns mount flat like the stockers??

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Maybe that is their way of raising it up so it can be like the 1in taller than stock Spohn mounts.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

the old style J+M plates use the spacers cause they are made out of a piece of flat plate. the new ones, along with the spohn pieces, have a raised cylinder in the center to accommodate the shock and raise the mount to the required height

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

But the Spohn mounts are about 1 inch taller. Just to point out details

hotpart

I have never seen a Spohn piece other than photos. I am going to point out to look at the location of the bearings. The way that Spohns bearing is mounted it reduces the amount of travel gained by raising it. The bearing and bearing housing will take up space (aprox. 1 inch give or take). Again I do not know the dimension of theirs so this is just an observation.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

How would it reduce travel by raising the bearing an inch or so. I would think it would increase the travel, especially when you lower the car with lowering springs. I would think if you lower the car about an inch with springs, that the taller Spohn strut mount would give you that inch of travel back. Please explain, am I missing something?

hotpart

What I am saying is to look at the how the bearing is placed on the Spohn mounts in relation to ours. Theirs is mounted underneath the top bearing plate which will reduce the clearance of the strut to bearing by the amount of their bearing housing length. Ours is mounted above our top caster mounting plate so you do not loose the clearance gained by making the main tube longer. You will not gain any bump travel with either plate when you lower your car if you do not trim your bumpstop. Hope this makes sense.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I kind of skimmed through this topic but read most so if I mention something already dicussed or answered please just post the answer..thank you.

Okay, I was looking to do a coil-over for my camaro as it will be drift/ daily driver. Thing is I wanted spohn as they have the coil-over setup, thats bolt in and no need of mods, now could I get these coil-overs (which use QA1 crap I guess) and match them to hotpart's mounts?

Also since hotpart say QA1 is crap, what coil-overs would you recommend to get to help me with my drifting possibilities?

Also, does the hotpart's mounts provide the extra 1" or not or some sort of extra travel. I WILL be lowering my car on coil-overs (and racecraft 2" drop spindles) as soon as i find out which CO's are best. Thanks for all info.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

here lots of good things about hypercoils, but all drag oriented. im not sure they offer stiff springs or not. never checked into the higher rates.
you dont need the spohn kit if you know how to work with steel plate(or know someone) spohns plates are really nice. im sure its not failsafe, even with the bracing, but its better than nothing. strut tower brace is a must as well if you are roadracing it.
you can get all the coilover specific parts or kit off afcos website.
summit stocks most of it too, but the price is near the same.
depends on who ships it faster i guess.
buy all the hard parts from afco, then source springs elsewhere.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I realize that the bearing is mounted underneath, but it's a lot taller than your product, so I would think that if Spohn states that increases their product increases travel by 1 inch, that the mount is 1 inch taller + the width of the bearing, therefore, still allowing the extra inch of travel. Would it help if I measured the overall height of it so you have a comparison?

hotpart

There are several critical measurements the first is from the bottom of the camber plate or the top of the strut tower to the bottom of the bearing mount inside the tube. The second is the total height of the bearing from the strut tower to see how much droop travel loss there is. The last would be how much extra strut housing to upper mount clearance is needed if any do you need with how much your bumpstop is trimmed. I can tell you that our upper camber plates are used on most of the CMC cars with no bumpstops and we do not have a clearance issue.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Im going to ask a performance shop by me if they would like to sponsor my car for drifting...as I know they are a new company and still have yet to hit the drifting scene, that and because they came end of summer so this coming summer Im having them do everything on my car...so why not get them into hooking me up with a custom coil-over setup.....Ill keep tabs on here and see what hotpart says would be a good Coil-Over setup for his mounts....as I would like to get those J&M's but wouldnt mind the extra 1"...which I dont think the J&M's have...

Remember, I will be purchasing 2" drop spindles sometime end of 2008. I want my car nearly slammed on 18's or 17's with thicker tires. But still be possible to drive on the road (where the coil-overs would come in handy)

EDIT: Looking at ground control kits right now, they offer caster camber plates with extra travel. Kit is $459 and C/C plates are $249

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

I emailed Spohn about this. They replied back

"The bearing is located 1" higher than the factory strut mount, the bearing width is .75"

FerrMaro

Do any coil-over kits fit the J&M mounts?

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Will both of these fit the GC kits?

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...hp/II=20/CA=86

hotpart

Any kit that is designed to work with a factory or modified factory strut mount will work our camber/caster plates.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

If you do a coil over kit on these cars, BRACE EVERYTHING! Those strut towers are only supported by sheet metal, and adding coilovers can punch through worn/rusty/fatigued strut towers.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

I will be having these guys www.FTKUSTOMZ.com do my install. I will be sure to let them know whats needed per other camaro drivers statements. Thanks. BRACE BRACE BRACE!!! Gotcha

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Even with bracing it can be a bad idea. The domed structure of our shock towers aren't very well suited to a large vertical force. For struts they're fine, but put the whole load of the front of the car up there....

Look through the forums. There's a few people with strut towers that are now misshapen because of coil overs.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Im confused then. If the J&M mounts work with Coil-overs why would the bracing be needed? Since this will fit in the stock location why wouldnt the strut towers hold up now?

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Reread what you just wrote and you have the answer to this question. J&M and other companies say it will work with coil-overs, but they do not claim all you need is their product to safely run a coil-over setup. You do want to keep you and your car safe... right?

Before a coil-over setup, the weight of the front of the vehicle was placed on the springs which were under the massive hunk of metal known as the K-member. Now, when you move the springs to the struts in a coil-over conversion, you are replacing the beefy K-member with a piece of sheet metal. Now do you really think the sheet metal will not warp/bend/stretch when it is under load (weight of the front of your vehicle) and working its @$$ off as you tear through corners?

Story explaining why in a real life example:
Ok, this may be a little out there in comparison, but it might help you understand the reason. Lets say you are putting together a metal bench (imagine it as the stock K-member). Since it is metal, it will be a strong piece that will last a long time. You also wouldn't need to use washers (the extra bracing) either because the metal is strong enough to go without. Now it has been a while, but you get tired of sitting on a cold metal bench all the time and you decide to make another one out of wood (picture these as the strut mounts). The wood is the more attractive choice because it looks and feels better. Now as your assembling it you remember when you were putting together the metal bench. You see the washers and say heck with it and continue. A month later you sit on it and fall to the floor. Now why would that happen? The washer (bracing) was not there to increase the surface area, which meant the load was not spread out while holding the pieces together. The small surface area of the bolt allowed it to be pulled through the wood due to carelessness. Now the same would happen with the coil-over. Without the proper bracing, over time the strut tower will bend the sheet metal until it rips and shoots through your hood (of course that is the extreme but I think you get it...).


Mike

slow_90firebird

In case it does rip through the hood, you might want to fit some of those little caps like a Dodge Stealth

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

I finally decided to go with the J&M strut mount I have installed them with the KYB adjustable struts.

The problem that I am having now is when I hit a bump the front is too stiff there is no give. At first I thought I had a broken strut so I got the KYBs. Is there some type of adjustment to make these looser? or are the installed wrong?







Thanks for you help

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

What you installed is the old style which uses spacers. Maybe it is rough because you dont have any spacers in there.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Yeah I noticed that. When I check the car my mechanic isntalled them underneath.

Would that make a difference?

stage20

iTrader: (3)

you might be bottoming out the strut depending on ride height.
the spacers will allow the piston to ride higher in the body of the shock if you use the spacers in the correct space.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Great...

I am riding at stock height did not lower the car any.

I am going to buy some KYB mounts and call it a day. I got these before I put the car away for the winter with a ton of other crap and am not sure who the vendor was the f...ed me over and sent me the old ones...

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Why not keep those nice mounts you already have????? Just reinstall them putting the spacers in the right place.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

I will try that first. But I am just really annoyed. They changed the design drastically for a reason....
Why?

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Who knows, maybe to make it compatible with coil overs? It's just the natual progression of things. Designs get improved.

eeeeeefirebird

iTrader: (3)

i would be curious to know how the kyb mounts perform

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

They look like direct copies of the stockers. So they would be better than old ones, but if your using a STB, they would make the STB pointless.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

If the Kyb are the same as stock, Moog, and Monroe, then they all suffer from having a rubber bushing where they should be using a bearing. The Spohn and J&M mounts both use a high load bearing here, and the J&M units have a lifetime warranty.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Ok I am happy now... Had the J&Ms installed correctly today. After what appeared to be the longest wheel alignment ever the car is perfect again.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

was it busy or the guy an idiot, or did the mounts cause them to take longer?
maybe a combination in todays world.

glad you got it straightend out.(pun)

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

It was the mounts.. old design mounts are a pain in the a$$