bart91406

I just bought a set of old stock pro topline heads, which are the same as RHS, and had them put on a flow bench, and thought that some people may also be interested in the accurate flow numbers.
I bought the iron heads, with 72 cc chambers from competition products of there broom sheet for 400 dollars for the pair. They were advertised to have 2.02 intake valves, but were actually cut for a 2.055 oddly enough. I guess that at some time when the company switched owners the info git skewed.
Anyway I do not have the whole flow sheet yet, the guy that flowed them was just getting a baseline before pocket porting them, and I just called him on the phone to get a few numbers, I will update this whenever I pick them up and get before and after porting flowsheets.
The intake flowed 233@.400, 265@.500,278@550,290@650. These seem like respectable numbers to me, they seem to flow better than the advertised RHS flow numbers at high lifts, but below at low lifts.
I just figured that people that may be shopping for heads might be interested in this, and I will update with a whole intake and exhaust flow sheet when I pick these heads up.

da.slyboy

iTrader: (1)

I'm subscribing to your results. I've been looking at purchasing RHS heads for a while now (and will probably continue looking for a while until funds come along

J91

I have a set of 226's on my 383. They work great, I have the 2.05 valves also, these things rock hard above 3500 all the way to 7000, my cam peters out about 67-6800, my engine guy told me the heads were good to 7500.
I've had TF, AFR's in the past and was skeptical 'bout going w/RHS. Now I would recomend them to anyone...

paul_huryk

Pretty darn good flow numbers, even out of 220cc...

If you could post the exhaust flow #'s (equally important), everyone can see what these heads bring to the table (or block).

bart91406

I will get a whole flow sheet asap, but it may be 2 weeks since the heads are in another town getting ported, and I will just wait to pick them up before getting the sheets, I do know from talking to the head porter that although the intake flowed well, the exhoust was comparitively weak, which is something he will focus on while portinf.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

thats odd he told you an rpm the heads were good too. its more of camshaft parameters that dictate what rpm the motor will go, not the cylinder head.

J91

Told me beyond 7500 I would have valve spring problems and valvetrain for that matter. It really doesn't matter, like I said the cam peters out on power above 6800, I doubt the motor would even hit 7500? And I am not gonna try and find out. Heads will limit how high an engine can rev, at some point valve float comes into play. While the camshaft parameters do dictate engine rpm, once you float valves you reached the limit.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

with the correct valve spring and geometry, you could spin it where ever.
your reply is more of a detailed answer. you made it seem like head flow was limiting rpm.
i do agree if your cam is done at 6800, there is no reason to spin it to 7500.
but with the right parts... the head can go much farther.

bart91406

While the camshaft does dictate the rpm, the cylinder head runners also play a huge role, as does thi intake and exhaust header primary size. The same motor will make power at a higher rpm with 220cc heads vs. 200cc heads, the same apllies to the intake style.

Now a 280 cam should not be run with 220 heads on a 350, and a big roller should not be run with 180s, but that does not mean each cam has only one size head and intake to be run with it, the weight of the car, size of converter, gearing and a bunch of other variables will dictate which heads you should choose.

I guess that was just a long way of saying that head runners do dictate peak power rpm, and different cars will want different size runners.

stage20

iTrader: (3)

.280 at .050 or .006?
sure you can run that cam on a 350. it will just make peak power higher. youd have to spin it up to say, 7300, where as 400 inches with the same head and cam would make peak power 66-6800.
i think all of this is getting over analized.

what im getting at is with the proper valvetrain, and camshaft, those heads have the capability to make power to 8000prm if you wanted to.
the head casting itself is not limited to a certain rpm, though the size of the ports and flow do play a part in selection of camshaft lift. if the head flow drops off at .600, a .740 lift cam will do nothing for you, in a sense.
we could go on.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Good numbers for those heads. Cant beat that price either. Definately run a high lift cam to take advantage of those high lift numbers

bart91406

[quote=stage20;4073210].280 at .050 or .006?
sure you can run that cam on a 350. it will just make peak power higher. youd have to spin it up to say, 7300, where as 400 inches with the same head and cam would make peak power 66-6800.
i think all of this is getting over analized.

This part of your reply I agree with, but it is not just because of the big ports flowing at high lift, allowing the use of a high lift cam, It is all in the intake port velocity.The fact that the ports flow better in the upper lifts is a bonus.

bart91406

Yeah, I bought the heads because of the price, I was considering a set of sportsman 2s because my budget on this motor is considerably lower than it has been in recent years. Then comp. products sen me a broom(clearance) sheet and I just about jumped for joy! My motor has an agressive solid roller cam with .672 lift, and it is 408 cubic inch, so these big runners should fit the bill nicely. Then I found out that they flow even better than advertised!Maybe my luck has changed!!

bart91406

Well, I finally was able to pick up these heads today, and I now have the whole flow sheet, before and after.


Before porting: intake-.200=126,.300=184,.400=233,.500=265,.550=278,.600=287,.650=290.

exhaust-.200=89,.300=123,.400=147,.500=162,.600=171

Exhaust with pipe .500=177,.600=188

The shop said that the intake to exhaust relationship was terrible and told me That any porting that needed done was on the exhaust side, so i instructed them to do so, and after a 300$ bill my exhaust port was improved to a more favorable 75% ei relationship with the tube at .600 lift. The mildly ported exhaoust now flows:
With pipe-.400=170,.500=188,.600=207,.650=212.

Roc87

Thanks for posting, I'm having a set of the smaller valve'd RHS heads built for my L98 and before asking the engine builder, I had never head of the RHS heads. He usually builds big block Caddy motors, but has built a few SBCs, one of the last was a sprint car engine using "inexpensive" parts and ported/polished RHS heads they got nearly 700 flywheel HP out of it. I'm going to have him pick the roller cam to match the heads and port matched edelbrock TPI intake, I'm just hoping for 300rwhp

Shagwell

bart91406 - glad to see that you got what you paid for.

I have been very happy with my 200cc Topline aluminums.

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

actually RHS has been around a loooooooong time. COMP CAMS was the small part of RHS and then COMP grew and was bigger than RHS and eventually to do reasons i wont say RHS went south for a bit around the early to mid 90s.
RHS was the jegs and summit of the day before internet. they could build your motor to what ever spec you wanted/needed and here locally they had a show room that was pretty much your one stop before super shops.
RHS will most likely not go back to eng build, just do new head products. at one time RHS was in the works of building a block but that stopped, i seen the 2 proto type blocks not long ago.
i was glad to see the name come back but knew it wouldnt be what it was, time are diff. btw i have a set myself and a friend has a set on his S-10 blazer that does 10.0 and 9's on gas that runs a set and he is pleased.

J91

RHS has recently been acquired by Comp Cams. Look for new products including engine blocks made by them in the near future. They are currently making and selling LS type race blocks. The company is definitely on the move bad economy or not...

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

RHS has always been a part of COMP and as i said before COMP was the smaller company when comp was started. RHS went away and returned in the same bldg its in right now.

J91

The companies were seperated for awhile, a friend of mine worksfor Comp., 2yrs. ago they re-united being bought out by Comp Cams, and they are making LS race blocks that are for sale to the public. Sorrry if you think I'm negating you, go to there website and look if you don't believe me.

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

i recently left COMP 4 months ago and was there for 5 years, they were never "separated". mis management caused RHS to go away, Ron coleman slowly bought out all 7 of the owners before RHS went away. Scooter Brothers is the last person at COMP/RHS that was an owner of RHS.
finally in about 92-93 RHS went south. my immidiate supervisor at COMP (Wayne Kirk) was a mgr there as well and when he seen RHS was about to go away he moved over to COMP. both of the suprers in the cam shop were at RHS, one being the final test/shake down dept and the other over the machining.
who is the friend you had at comp, its high poss i know them.

J91

friend of mine is Jim Jacobs, his brother Bob builds engines here in Columbus.I did get my info from Bob, he's the guy who turned me on to RHS heads, I have nothing but good things to say about the heads I have (226's). You are probably right as I haven't spoke w/ Jim in awhile.

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

its all kool J, when i was there i ate, slept and lived everything COMP. conversation would come up of the old days often with my super, esp during the 30th year 2 yrs ago. with the people that are there from long ago its kool to hear some of the amazing stuff that has been accomplished. i dont think i could make a post that long. i left for better money, otherwise id still be there.
im eager to get my motor assembled with my combo which may be 2 yrs because were concentrating on getting our debt paid off, after that its on.

leeperryracing

AFR's 195cc eliminator heads flow way better than any one of those RHS 22x cc heads and do so at relatively low lifts too where you don't have wind your motor to the moon to get good flow. Look at the numbers for their "competition" ported 195cc eliminators and then the flow numbers really get stupid!

bart91406

?

bart91406

I am very happy that you noticed a 1400 dollar cnc-ported aluminum street head outflows a set of RHS/pro-toplines that I bought for 400 dollars new,Would you like a cookie?

I posted this so that bargain shoppers would notice the deal, and that on the flow bench these heads performed well, especially for the price. I am that the 1000 dollars I saved will either go a long way in making up for slightly lower low lift flow, or more likely, will stay in my wallet to pay of credit card bills, 290 cfm is damn good flow, and will make enough power for me.


After posting this, I decided to compare the AFR street 195 numbers to these heads, and for what the Pro's give up in low lift, about 10 cfm, they make up in high lift, above .550 or so. Now that would be irelevent with a flat tappet cam, but with .700 lift like my solid roller cam, and a 406 cubic inch motor like mine, and the rpm range my cam has, I am willing to bet that the RHS will outperform the afr 195 street head.

Now comparing a 195 street head to a 220 is apples to oranges comparison, And so is a 400 dollar head to a 1400 dollar head, especially since under the right circumastances, the 400 dollar head would win!

J91

I think he deserves a COOKIE!

formularpm

So does RHS make/own the Topline brand now? And are they the same castings? The ones with the raised port floor?

QUICKCHICKEN

iTrader: (12)

yes, they bought PTL and made some changes to the head castings. as for the raised port floor i cant answer, never heard anything on those changes, not saying there arent any changes just saying i didnt hear of any.

Bigseth

iTrader: (11)

RHS bought all of protopline's inventory a few years back to get them started back up, but the pro-topline brand name is still owned by Topline Automotive. All of the pro-topline heads were reboxed as RHS but the heads that have been coming in over the past year or more are all RHS heads. RHS has their own foundry here in the USA and are making their own heads based off of the protopline design. They are a lot nicer than the old protoplines and have a thicker deck and various other changes. For the money the RHS cost you might as well buy some Darts IMHO.

Seth

Roc87

Just got my L98 Back last week from the machine shop along with a roller isky 112 lsa cam and a set of pro-topline 64cc heads. I put in 24# injectors along with a port matched edelbrock base and high-flow runners. No dyno numbers yet since I only have 200 miles on it, but I'll be extremely surprised if it has over 280rwhp

bart91406

Why might you buy darts with the money RHS heads cost? these are rival companies that both produce quality parts. I can not say which is better, I have never tested a set of Darts, but with what the RHS heads flow I do not think that I need to, the RHS 220 heads flow great.

I am only saying this because of the way you phrased that, to seem as if RHS is a inferior company to DART, and for the same price DART is better. I disagree that DART is better, I think that they both sell quality products, and each person will choose which to buy based off price, performance, availabilty, and many other factors, not just buy DARTs cause they are "better"

Fast Floridian

I built and dynoed a motor with these heads used a 350 went .030 over speed pro .250 dome 10.5 to 1 with bargain eagle rods comp xtreme energy solid 520 540 246 253 at .050
pro-product hurricane intake with 1inch spacer a quick fuel 750 cfm timing was locked out at 37 degrees. Made 485 0n the dyno 1st pull after tightning lash and timing and jetting saw well over 500 hp


dont try that with your stock heads lol!!!

corvettemike

i have a set of the pro topline srt 45 heads the guy i bought them from told me everything had been done to them. i know the've been milled from 72 to he said 68 cc chambers, came off his circle track car because they were illegal, they have stock 194s can anyone tell me runner size or anything else about these heads, they have nice large runners and they weigh alot more than stock cast iron heads, i know because i mashed my fingers putting them on.