Bruce89TA

Hi guys,
I just won an auction for an accel dfi gen 6 module. It didn't come with cal map or a cable so I was wondering if anyone had them for sale or if I could bum a copy of the cal map and make myself a cable? Does anyone have any information on it? The module I have is #74024. It came with a wiring harness so that's not a problem and I guess I'll also need the base maps (?). If anyone can give me any info, I'd be greatly in debt. Thanks.

-Bruce

FAST LiFE

iTrader: (3)

Go to www.fasttrackperformance.com and email Mac. His number is there also. He makes a DFI 6.0 cable much cheaper than you would getting the Accel cable. Calmap 6.32 can be downloaded from www.mrgasket.com/dfimain.html . Email me and let me know what your engine configuration is. I might have something close to it that you can run off of. You can also go into the GLOBAL window of Calmap and use the UTILITIES function to create a fuel map for your application. Using the GLOBAL/UTILITIES function does come out on the rich side, so when Calmap asks for the parameters of your engine, you may want to reduce HP and torque output down about 15% or using rear wheel HP and torque numbers instead of flywheel numbers. Keep in mind that using someone else's Calmap maps or having the GLOBAL/UTILITIES function create you a map IS ONLY A STARTING POINT. You will have to tune the map to your particular engine configuration. Also keep in mind that you must use DOS for the Calmap software. Using Calmap in a WINDOWS enviroment can currupt the software and maps you modify. Hope this helps.

Bruce89TA

So I'm still trying to figure out the pin outs from the DFI unit to the serial cable. I have everything I need, I'm just not getting the right pins connected to the right pins. Does anyone have a minute to ohm out the cable and tell me which ones connect to which? I'd be eternally grateful.

-Bruce

FAST LiFE

iTrader: (3)

The cable that connects your DFI to your laptop is not just a simple serial cable. In the middle of the cable is a sealed module. Sorry to say that I've never opened that module since it's completely sealed and don't feel like spending the extra money if I ruin it by opening it and playing around inside the module. Mac from fasttrackperformance.com is the cheapest place I know to get that cable. He usually sells them almost $100 less than paying for the Accel cable. Hope this helps.

hardcoreZcar

iTrader: (3)

I've got a gen 7 setup and need a usb key. Is there anyone who can make one? Is this possible? I dont think the site above is working anymore.

FAST LiFE

iTrader: (3)

Have you tried giving Accel/DFI a call? You can try giving www.fasttrackperformance.com (I believe they are not called Horsepower Connection) a call. They make adapter harnesses, etc for the Gen 7. You can try giving www.force-efi.com a call as well.

ROC4GNP

iTrader: (1)

i have got a dfi cable with pro key built into it also have dfi wide band o2 with data logger these are new for a gen 7 this means you can log without laptop and than hook-up lap and veiw data after run the pro key will give you total control over everthing plug and play (will not work with windows vista) will only sell together.

hardcoreZcar

iTrader: (3)

Check ur PM's Roc

busta9876

I know this is an old thread, however...I got a Accel Gen 6 on trade today, but I didn't get to keep the cable/adaptor. So I carefully took it apart. There is 1 16pin chip, and 5 capacitors. The chip has had its markings scratched off. However, it appears to be a MAX232 circuit.

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Maxi...u%20MAX249.pdf

Page 17 is common schematic for MAX 232.

The converter box I have, has a 9 pin serial on one end, and flat 4 pin on the other. This flat 4 pin is what connects to the Accel DFI harness.
A BLUE
B GREEN
C RED
D BLACK

Where this plug goes to the Accel harness, the mating 4 pin flat has 1 wire with different color. It is this.
A ORANGE
B GREEN
C RED
D BLACK

Pin A goes to Pin 11 of the CHIP inside the adapter.
Pin B goes to Pin 12 of the CHIP inside the adapter.
Pin C is a 5 volt source , coming from the ACCEL harness.
Pin D is a GROUND source, coming from the ACCEL harness.

Serial Port side of it.
9 pin serial, Pin 2, Rx goes to Pin 14 of the CHIP inside adapter
9 pin serial, Pin 3, Tx goes to Pin 13 of the CHIP inside adapter.
9 pin serial, Pin 5, GROUND

follow the basic circuit from the link above to build the adapter.

!!!!HOWEVER!!!! THERE IS ONE CAPACITOR THAT IS DIFFERENT THEN THE CIRCUIT SHOWN. Looking at the basic circuit, C3 + is shown connected to pin 2 of MAX232 and - side to 5v+.

On the adapter I have, C3 + is connected to pin 2 of MAX232, but the other side of the cap goes to GROUND instead.

I have not built a new one and verified yet, however i've looked over this 10 times now, thats how it is wired....

busta9876

I know this is old post, however, I did finally get around to building this interface. I ended up using a MAX233 chip, which is similar to the MAX232, but has all the supporting capacitors built into the chip. So, single chip, no other parts to build this cable. This does work, confirmed it tonight on a accell gen 6. calmap software connected and allowed me to modify the ecm. The MAX chip is powered by the 5v coming from the accell harness on pin C, RED. Ground is on Pin D, BLACK.

I just wanted to get this info out since I was unable to find it anywhere else.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...33EPP%2BG36-ND
$8.93 for the chip.

MAX233 20 pin chip.

DFI HARNESS
A - ORANGE - TO MAX233 PIN 2
B - GREEN - TO MAX233 PIN 3
C - RED - TO MAX233 PIN 7
D - BLACK - TO MAX233 PIN 6 AND 9

9 PIN SERIAL CABLE
DB9 PIN 2 - TO MAX233 PIN 5
DB9 PIN 3 - TO MAX233 PIN 4
DB9 PIN 5 - TO MAX233 PIN 6 AND 9

cj68

I am going to bring this thread back to life again and ask if anybody has tried this on a Gen 7 ECM? I have the USB cable with built in Sportsman Key but I am having EMI problems causing me to loose connection. Accel says a serial cable will not be affected by EMI as badly and should work but I don't want to pay another $200. I figured if I plug my USB cable in to activate the software key then use a serial cable to communicate I would be good to go.

jmanley

cj68 - That's what I'm doing. I have both the USB and Serial cables, and both have EMI issues (regardless of what they say), but the best is to use the serial cable with my USB Pro key.

cj68

have you tried wrapping the converter box in aluminum foil? I will be attempting that tonight. Maybe even laying making some aluminum shields between the ECM and com cable and the engine bay? Another guy on efi101.com forums said an extended cable between the ECM and the com cable black box helps to get the adapter away from the EMI and solved his problems. If I get it to work tonight I will follow up.

jmanley

Hmmm, I've NOT tried the aluminum foil idea. My ECU is in my glove box and data cable goes to near the pass-side seat typically where I have my laptop sitting during passes. I wonder if doing that *and* doing something similar with the cable would help. It would look like crud, but if it'd work, might be worth it.

Let me know what you find out!

cj68

The tin foil worked! At first I still lost connection but the foil wrapped adapter was sitting on the steel floor. When I rigged up the cable to keep the adapter box floating in mid air and I was able to finally keep the coms ope long enough to set IAC position and start tuning the VE for idle. Now I need to check out some more threads to find someone with a similar engine setup so I can get the tune a little closer before I start tinkering.

jmanley

Did you wrap the box, or just the cable?

cj68

I wrapped just the box.

jmanley

Shiny side out or in? Sorry for all the questions, but I need this to work! Oh, and how many layers? Just one, or did you wrap a bunch around it?

cj68

I didn't pay attention to that. I just took a some foil and wadded it around the box. The idea is to interrupt the magnetic fields pinging around your cars steel body. Aluminum is not magnetic so it acts as a shield. But in my case, the adapter still picked up interference when it was too close to something steel.

SWCASH

I don't really want to hijack this thread, but, you guys seem to know about the Accel Gen VI.
I've been spending a lot of time with Megasquirt and came across this NOS Accel Gen VI ecu and harness. I plan on putting together the communications cable with the max233 from the info in this thread, so I can talk to the unit.
I have a few questions. What is the purpose of the Pro or Sportsman keys and how does it connect to the system? Is there a way to communicate without a key? Is there a place where can I download the software?
I have been trying to get info on this system and just today was able to identify it as a Gen VI. No one seems too interested in it. Most say just get a Gen VII. Any help will be appreciated very much.
Squido

jmanley

HIJACK ALERT! Just kidding. Here's what I can tell you. I used to own Gen 6 and the main issue with it is that it's DOS-driven (text based) and the new one (Gen 7) is GUI based. So most aren't interested. That said - I had great luck with the Gen 6, but my inner nerd made me go Gen 7. The Pro and Sportsman Keys are only for Gen 7, not Gen 6. And with the Gen 7, yes, you can do basic editing w/o any key. Some of the more detailed/advanced features are available only with these keys. Pro unlocks ALL adjustments, Sportsman about 1/2 of the system. You can get Gen 6 or Gen 7 software at http://accel-dfi.com/calmap/calmapdownload.asp Let me know if you have other questions!

cj68

Also, if you haven't been there already, head over to efi101.com they have a forum that is strictly for efi tunning a info. I met a guy over there that has been an accel dealer for 10 years and has tons of info. He is the one who told me to use foil to get the adapter working and he also helped me with some base maps for my engine. I asked him if I could forward you his email address. If it is OK with him I'll PM you.

Correct me if I am wrong but a major gain you will see in the GEN VI system over megasquirt is true sequential fuel injection. I haven't done a lot of research in this but it seams Accel's systems are one of few that do this. Over on efi101 the Accel system doesn't seem to be all that popular for some reason. There seems to be a brand specific forum for all the other front runner ECMs but not for Accel and I don't know why?

jmanley

It's weird that Accel is the underdog in this - I agree. I think it's because of their lack of advertising, and the fact that they've been taken over by two companies (different ones) in the last 4 years.
Not only does Accel "excel" in the true SFI arena, but also with EFI/Nitrous (up to 3 stages) and EFI/Boost (I have a friend running 40psi and using Accel - around 1700 hp!).
I did my research into this, and I do have to say that - ignoring all the brand hype - feature for feature Accel beats every one of them hands-down if you have either a "sportsman" or "pro" key.
I think the other reason that Accel might have troubles is because it's WAY WAY WAY more flexible than the other systems, which might make it "scarier" to those not comfortable with laptop tuning. Personally, I love it, but I'm a nerd.

cj68

I'm a huge nerd too. I have a mechanical engineering degree and pretty much the only nerdier people are either software engineers and physicists. It's good to hear someone else agree with me on this. I thought maybe since I took 10 years to finish my motor build that my setup was already completely outdated.

efiguy

iTrader: (2)

So do I that's why I became a dealer. I did so after I did my car, a stock block 72 Olds Supreme Droptop.

Megasquirt has some neat features too, but nothing will drive better than a Thruster or Gen 7 in this price range, nothing. That's what differenciates it from the Gen 6 as well. That system had little provision for transient fueling. You needed to run your "VE" a bit rich to compensate for changing loads and throttle positions.

I'm the guy that cj68 referred to. I'm also on the Accel website and did their How-To DVD. Hope I can help.

Mark

BTW they've been owned by Mr. Gasket for many years now. Actually Mr. Gasket as a whole was bought by Prestolite a few years back. But Mr.Gasket in itself started selling off brands before that, i.e. Hurst, Erson. Then they folded the Jacobs brand into the Accel/Mallory stuff. Prestolite is a strong company, been around for a long time.

jmanley

Mark - can you send me info on your DVD - jmanley@cableone.net
Thanks!

SWCASH

The guys were right. I spend some time at Chevelles.com and the guys over there told me if I need help on EFI, to come to 3RD Gen.
I found a kit to put together a communications cable for the Gen6. It's a max233 chip on a small circuit board. You can check it out here. http://www.compsys1.com/workbench/On...3_adapter.html
The Gen6 will be going on a Big Block Chevy. A couple of questions I have:
1. From what I gather: The 4 pin connector for the distributor/ignition A yellow EST, B Dark Blue Ref CRK+, C White Bypass, and D pink Gnd Crk-. Does this interface with a Small cap GM Distributor or do I need a Crank Signal or a Dual Sync Distributor?
2. I saw a publication directed at the Gen6, Is this what I need to install/tune the system?
3. Rather than purchasing the adapter harnesses for some items ie, Map sensor, distributor...... are there any problems just changing the connector to the proper one to fit the sensor/distributor?
4. there are two fuseholders on my harness with a 3 amp, and a 30 amp fuse. 30 amp appears to be for fuel pump, 3 amp for ECU?
5. There is an empty 4 pin female socket for a small relay. What style relay do I need to get?
Basic questions for sure. Other than a few drawings I picked up on the Internet I have very little info/specifications for this system.
Thanks for the help.
Squido

mrkling

Does anyone have a GEN6 manual? I tried to get one from Accel, but they were no help. I really need one to try and troubleshoot surging issues. I think the computer might be the source.

cj68

If the Gen 6 manual is anything like the Gen 7 you don't want it. I doubt it would be of any help with your problem. Have you confirmed all your sensors are functioning properly? O2, MAP, TPS, ECT, ect. I would suspect the sensors, wiring, ignition problems, or simply a bad tune, or even just a vacuum leak before the ECM. Besides if you go through all the extras and they are all good then you'll know it is definitely the ECM. You can find test procedures and criteria for the sensors without the gen 6 manual or you can use the gen 7 manual if they have that info in it. The systems didn't change that drastically. the biggest change was going to a windows based cal program rather then DOS version. The sensors and signals stayed pretty much the same.

mrkling

I'm trying to gather everything to be able to see the settings on my gen6. From what I gather, I need to download the 6.32 Calmap software, get a cable maybe from Fast track Performance, and find an old dinosaur laptop with a 3.5 " floppy drive. Anything else??? As stated in a previous post, I was able to get the surging under control, but one thing I can't figure out is when the car is at idle, the throttlebody starts to suck in mass amounts of air. It's actually very loud. My guess is a setting in the ECU. Any ideas??

jmanley

That's normal. With the throttle body "closed", you're hearing the super-sonic air flow past the throttle blades.

mrkling

Thanks, as I mentioned, I corrected most of the surging. However, when I first start the engine, The engine hunts or surges 3-4 times before leveling out. Is that normal?

jmanley

If it's doing that, that has to be part of afterstart enrichment - either not enough or too much. Not sure, but typically with surging its a bit too much.

guyp

Hi all, I bought a cable for gen 6 and I have tried to communicate with the ecu and can't. The strange thing I noticed is when the cable is plugged in to the ecu, the fuel pump shuts off. Is this normal?

Thanks

jmanley

Absolutely not. Definitely not a Gen6 cable. Where did you get it? From Accel or someone else?

guyp

I purchased it from Horsepower Connection. Any Idea how I can check (ohm out) the cable? The ecu I have is working fine on the car, but I need to make some changes.

jmanley

Sorry, no clue on that. You might want to check with Accel directly. I've had good luck with their support dept.

cj68

Yeah that does not%2

jmanley

That other serial connector *is* for their wideband controller (I have one of them).

cj68

Does this new rev controller have better manners in the noise rejection department? Or will I still have that battle to contend with when I get my ECM back?

Also, does anybody know what service in windows locks up when CalMap looses coms? It's a major pain to have to reboot my computer every time I loose coms. I would prefer to just force quit the service and restart the program.

It makes a difference on which tuner/dyno I take my Jeep to. If I still have noise problems I will go to the more expensive Accel certified tuner who knows how to deal with the problem but if this adapter is more stable I would rather go with a local guy who sounds like he will do a more detailed tune for a little less cash. Before anybody says "you get what you pay for" the Accel tuner says he will be done in a couple hours and the other guy wants the Jeep for a couple days so he can do multiple cold start cycles to get things perfect. Sounds like the Accel guy will just do some wide open throttle tuning and call it a day to me...

jmanley

Nope, no difference because you still use either the USB connector and/or serial connector. What I did to get rid of some more of the noise is add magnetic noise chokes to the USB cable end, to the other end, and to the serial end... basically added a bunch of magnets to try to reduce the noise. Found them online - they just clip on.

Not sure on the service either, though I will say that I put WinXP on my laptop - fresh install - updated it with everything, then the latest version of all the CalMap stuff, that and the magnets have *greatly* reduced the noise issue.

Got the magnets at :
http://www.moates.net/ferrite-bead-f....html?cPath=63

Let me know if you need anything more.

cj68

Damn... OK, ferrite chokes were on the list of things to purchase before I get my ECM back. I have also seen heat shrink tubing with shielding inside of it. I figured every little bit helps.

I am running the latest version of CalMap and drivers. It's just a little extra painful for me to reboot when I loose coms because I am running a WinXP virtual machine on my Macbook.

jmanley

That could also be a part of the reason. XP run virtually then has an extra layer of drivers between it and the com port. You'd be better off buying a $200 laptop on eBay (a PC) and then run XP directly on that with no virtualization. Because otherwise you have Mac OS - Mac Com Driver - XP Com Driver - XP, and that is likely an issue because Calmap is so timing critical. That extra layer is killing you.

After adding the foil around the ECU itself, I did nothing to the cables at all other than the magnets (chokes) and I have not had an issue since.

cj68

Thanks for the info. I do have access to PC laptops but CalMap locked up just the same.

I haven't wrapped the ECU in foil but I will try that if I still have problems. Before my adapter crapped out, foil around the potted puck worked OK but I was still nervous to drop it off at the dyno. Now that I know I can squeeze my ECM out from behind my dash without pulling half the Jeep apart I can get more creative with the foil origami.

aDFIguy

Have you guys that are having noise issues on the USB cables tried different spark plug wires yet? I believe low resistance plug wires (or any type of plug wires that have started breaking down) can contribute greatly to problems like that.

cj68

Well I am running Accel Spiral Core wires so they shouldn't be an issue. I just replaced them with a new set because I changed the way my looms run. I am also running resistor type spark plugs.

The main source of my problem is the close proximity of my ECM to my coil. My setup is in a Jeep so the only safe locations for electronics are on the firewall or under the dash and real estate is at a premium big time... The result is my coil is basically just on the other side of the firewall from the ECM. I will say though that before I secured the harness I had the ECM sitting on the passenger seat away from everything and I still had problems. My coms were pretty stable with the aluminum foil on the adapter before my adapter crapped out so I am hoping the new adapter, ferrite chokes, and maybe the foil will get me back in business. Probably at least two more weeks until I get my ECM back from Accel though.

guyp

FYI thanks for the help, I contacted Horsepower Connection and sent the cable back to be tested and he found a problem with the chip on the circuit board. He sent me a new cable. Very good guy to work with!

Now its time to tune before the snow flies!

Guy P

cj68

I got my ECM back from Accel last week. $250 got me a new circuit board and now all eight injectors are firing like they should. My Jeep is an animal now. My new replacement cable aslo worked perfectly. I went straight to wrapping the adapter in foil and putting ferrite chokes on all of the cables because I didn't want to screw around. When I have more time I will experiment with pulling some shielding off little by little.