5literTPIterror

this is up for discussion, whether this is worth doing or should be totally thrown away before wasting time/money...
i want to use a Vortec 4.2 liter inline six cylinder from the trailblazer/envoy/ranier platform in my 89 formula.
part of the reason i would like to use this engine for is because i would like to combine it with a single turbo setup, due to increase turbocharger/down pipe room in the engine bay with an inline motor.
also this motor makes from 275-291 hp in NA form, with an extremely flat torque curve, producing 90% of its peak torque from 1600-5600rpms
i also am looking at; (but not saying they're the same) toyota's 2JZ supra engine, also being an inline 6. the vortec 4.2l obviously having quite an advantage in displacement w/o being stroked or bored, and has an aluminum block and head. the CR is 10;1 and runs on 87, has 4 valves per cylinder,
a variable exhaust cam pattern and the head flows very well.

the only time i've seen or heard of this is in John Cunningham's 66 nova wagon which uses the same inline six, with a custom fabbed aluminum intake, and an 88mm turbo... and ran 9.2 @140 in the pump gas drags in 2005.

the mounting cant be that different than any other custom swap, the engine harness could either be had from a donor vehicle or custom,

**IF** the motor was a little on the long side, (i havent gotten exact measurements yet) i could always cut away some of the area in front of the radiator and mount that as far forward as the hood latch, for increased engine length space.



i was thinking of runnning this engine with an accel DFI or similar, a sheetmetal intake, some larger injectors, an LSx throttle body, a medium to large frame T4 turbo, and either use the stock cast iron exhaust manifold but flipped around or something, orrr..... fabricate a turbo manifold out of schedule 40 weld els, (as shown in Street Turbocharging, by Mark Warner)

If ANYONE has any info, ideas, or theories on why this would or wouldnt be a good potential swap please let me know.

thank you for reading this damn novel

klause83z28

I have also contemplated a turbo 4.2 for a long time, so you are definately not alone. I think the problem that persists is that not enough people have really done the project to provide enough valid information to say either YAY or NAY. One of the things I have not been able to find out is the location of the motor mounts. Usualy this seems to be the major stumbling block of the project. If the mounts are stock 250-290 I6 mounts, then any old chevy that had it as an option will take the motor no prob. Third gens excluded obviously. As for the sheetmetal intake I really don't think it would be an absolute nessessity, I think it is used for space rather than anything else. I would use either DFI (accel) or a fast system for engine management. Megasquirt is a good system, but as of now it only has the ability for batch and bank fire, so you would lose power and effeciency by not using sequencial.(SP) I know the bellhousing is standard sbc-bbc, so that wouldn't be and issue.

You have me thinking again about this project again... I am wanting to put a turbo 4.2 I6 into a 41 chevy staff car.

5literTPIterror

yea i agree, there's a huge lack of info on this swap, i've searched and searched all over and havent found much.

well maybe when my nitrous TPI 305 blows this summer(probably) i'll look into starting this swap if it looks worthwhile.

5literTPIterror

TWIN TURBO TRAILBLAZER from motor trend awhile back...

"The point was to demonstrate the bullet-proof nature of this engine with fairly minor modifications."

We were surprised to learn how little is changed to create this Bullitt Mustang-performance-equaling six, with its twin Aerodyne turbos and air-to-water intercooler. For example, the block, crank, head, head gasket, cams, and valve sizes remain virtually untouched. The extra breathing hardware adds but 45 lb to the engine's mass. The only critical mods were a switch to 8.5:1 pistons (from 10.1:1), the addition of piston-cooling oil squirters, shorter (by 2 mm) connecting rods, thicker piston pins, higher-flow oil pump and fuel injectors, and a freer-flowing exhaust system. As you'd expect, the 4L60-E four-speed transmission's internals required some beefing, and the transfer case was swapped for the ultra-tough all-wheel-drive unit found in the 6.0L V-8-powered Cadillac Escalade.


i would think you could run enough boost to make this kind of power with out changing the pistons/compression ratio, by better intercooling, and/or methanol injection-boost cooler set up..??

anyways the potential is definately there, just a matter of coming up with the time and funds.

soultron

iTrader: (2)

I'm looking into this as well, the guys on Inliners.org
are way ahead of most. It's a great motor as is, some tuning and maybe a turbo and voila, madness.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Im looking into doing this also I have a 2003 tb 4.2 with 7900 miles on it, do you know what that nova wagon is running for internals? crank, rods, pistons? I think I will attempt this swap. also the 4.2 is 200lbs lighter then a sbc

ls six

Bump: I was a transmission dyno operator for several years so I can say with out a doubt that the I6 uses a unique bellhousing pattern only shared with the rest of the vortec inline family (the I5 and I4 used in the Colorado and Canyon) so either an adaptor plate is needed or a 4L60-65E from the donor truck.

The pickup's use 5 speeds so they might be an option in some swaps.

I have seen cut aways of the 4.2 and it looks like an impressively strong block so I cant wait to see what comes of it. I would hope that the I6 fanatics out there that have been stuck with out dated motors for years jump on this motor and do great things with it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I would think the engine would be too long for a 3rd gen engine bay. At the very least, the top front of the engine would poke above the hood, even with a cowl hood.

I suppose you could cut up the firewall and stick it under the windshield.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

inline engines are awesome motors. i owned a non turbo 95 supra for about a yr., i got with blown head gasket for cheep, it was easy to work on, easy to replace the parts, and ran pretty hard, for being non turbo. and the displacement was less than 4.2.
i got an offer for it that i couldnt refuse, and now i regret selling it.
it will no doubt take alot of fabrication and parts sourcing, for a 4.2 swap but it can be done.

imo a single turbo sbc will make more than enough power than u can handle, parts are readily available, and fair priced. endless info and tech to get u started.
or even a lsx swap will make sufficient power in n/a form.
let alone turbo. and easier to swap in

ringo7784

[IMG][/IMG]

ringo7784

I found these pics i can't remember where

ls six

http://www.steedspeed.com/turbo_manifolds

Riviera64

I was allso thinking of doing a 4.2 inline swap, But in a full size K5 Blazer. My blazer had a 383 stroker but I took it out when gas went up to 4 bucks a gallon then went to a 305 Z28 out of a camaro. Would it be worth it to swap the 4.2? Thier is alot of room under the hood to do it. But would I still get around the same amount of power and get better gas millege? I allso have a turbo from a pontiac 302 that was rebuilt i planned on putting on a 4.3 v6. So I could turbo charge it.
If you plan on doing the turbo and can weld I would just modify the origanal exhaust manifold then buying the one posted since it runs around a grand and looks like a cast manifold. For that much you can have one custom built with more flow.
If i find anything I'll let you know.

ls six

How long would it take to see a return on your investment in milage?

You'll put several grand into this swap and if you improve your milage by 4-5% you would have to drive tens of thousands of miles before you earned your money back.


It's like buying a Hybrid. They cost a couple thousand more than the base cars and get marginaly better economy. If you bought the base modle instead and put the saved cash in a "gas fund" it would last well past the point where most people trade up.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

I am not sure if this is a problem with the 4.2 but I know that there are rumored cylinder liner dropping issues with the early 3.5s in the Colorados which are built from the same design as the 4.2 is. Much in the same way the 4.3 compares to a 350 sbc.

One guy on ls1tech lost the bottom end in his turbo Colorado after a 20psi boost spike on the dyno. Might look up the post on there and pm the guy about the cylinder liner issue.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Hey that's my car haha

88TransAmGuy

iTrader: (3)

yeah i havent really found much info on a swap like that
Id wait til someone else tries it

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

The only real tough issue is the oil pan. I'm thinking of using a dry sump setup, the engine is actually pretty tall.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

Does the hood fit with the oil filler cap being so high? Does that car have a k member in it? Stock or tubular? I've been looking for more info on this swap also. Anyone figure out how to tune the stock computer?

ringo7784

For PCM tuning you should go to the trailvoy forums. they have a lot of good information there, in several swap threads with this engine going into old pickups and a 87' supra.

As far as mounting in our F-bodies I have one sitting in my 85' Iroc (I uploaded some pics into my photo album here) it has the stock k-member and the stock hood is not going to clear, I think when i measured it was 1 to 1 1/2" to high.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

haha! i was looking into this swap as well, interesting info here

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

Stock k-member, I fit the stock Iroc hood and My oil pan is modded plus using a custom intake.

dusty84z

this is a very cool idea! I've seen some of the 'yota 2JZ engines make huge power with turbos. it would be cool to have a GM I6 that would compete with those import guys on a level playing field. (well except having more displacement)
I know you can make the most power for the least money with the good ol' SBC...but there is a lot to be said for being different. I almost hate the thought of building another SBC just because everyone and their cousin has a sbc under the hood.
I just jumped on ebay to see what used 4.2's are going for...you can pick one up for $500. that would be a pretty cheap foundation for a build!
I'd like to know just how durable the bottom end of these engines are in stock form. I also wonder about the availability of aftermarket cams, rods, pistons, etc.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

Good info guys. I am selling everything from my $13,000 sbc to fund this swap. The plan was to do a Duramax but this will be just as fun and the cost will be much much less. I can retain the gas tank/pump, lines, trans cross member, and lots more. I am searching for wrecked donor vehicles, and there are a lot out there.

About the k member, I think I can remove the stock one entirely, fab custom mounts anchored to the fake "frame rails" in the engine bay, similar to what the guy did in his Supra/Atlas swap.. once the engine is set, build a new tubular k member , brake lines, etc.

Looks like HP Tuners is the way to go also, that's nice to hear.

KrisW

iTrader: (5)

If you are running the frame ties (like you should) then you will already have something to fab your trans crossmember to.

Good luck with this swap; I was looking at doing an old OHC Pontiac engine from the 60's and I have seen on this site the 250 and 292 Chevy I-6 under that hood already. Its time for it to happen, and once you take the pictures it will be easier for me later!

Awesome!

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

I do have subframes under the car but I also have a Spohn torque Arm. I have Spohn crossmembers for powerglide and one for a 700R4/4l60E. Maybe I can locate/mount the 4.2/4l60 combo by mounting the trans first to the crossmember and work from there forward?? I'm guessing the 2wd trailblazer uses a similar trans mount/crossmember setup. I could be wrong though. Time to look for undercarriage pics..

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Can a T56 be mounted up to the 4.2? Sounds like a really cool swap and I'd love to see one completed.

Camaro305SB

Dude that car is going to be SO front heavy I wouldn't think its worth it, but I guess its cool do see it being done.

dusty84z

maybe I'm missing something...but would the 4.2 really be that much heavier than an iron sbc? (if any?) I don't have any weight specs, just seems like it wouldnt be much different
couldnt be worse than swapping in a big block

ringo7784

The 4.2 weights about 150 pounds less than my 305 did, so it should be fine

dusty84z

thats what I was thinking. I couldn't imagine it being heavier than an all iron small block.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

I heard it was 100lbs lighter than an ls1. All in all it will be lighter.1 header vs 2, tiny plastic intake, ill be running a front exit exhaust, that drops huge weight vs a complete f body exhaust.

I figure it will be 400lbs lighter than a duramax diesel/Allison combo... haha I don't care what anything weighs, I just want something fun and reliable to drive the wheels off of.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Updates? I think this is a neat & unique swap. Even the hybrid 60* v6's are becoming mainstream to me even though many people have no idea what I'm talking about haha!

efi-diy

Hi all,

I've done a fair amount of work with the 4200, including a turbo charged engine swap into an older truck. Be happy to answer questions.

The engine mounts on the block side are 4 bolt with the 2 sides being slightly different.

All the 4200's came with a front sump oil pan which was the biggest hurdle doing swaps. You may find this of interest http://www.emtechmotorsports.com/oilpan.html to help this out.

efi-diy

You will need to change the tailhousing on the Trail blazer 4l60e - to a '02 camaro type. here is a pix. http://www.transmissioncenter.net/HPIM0474.jpg

hardon85

I'm not trying to upset anyone here but am I missing something here? What is so great about the 4.2 inline 6? I understand the part about wanting to be different but in this case why? You can get a 5.3 liter engine for less than $500 which also makes 295 HP in stock form and there are parts available to make them fit too (a 5.3 liter would be kind of different because most people go with an LS1 or 6 liter). Does anyone know if this engine would fit? Even a stock 5.3 or 6.0 (or any truck motor) will not fit in a 3rd gen without an LS1 intake and even if you get it low enough what about getting the engine accessories on the front? I really am not trying to knock anyone here but I just don't see the real advantage of all this custom work here for a 300-350 HP engine. I know everyone seems to build a small block for our cars but sometimes you have to ask why, maybe it's the best option for the money. However I do think a Duramax powered 3rd gen would be awesome, those things make awesome power, and would be awesome in a car that weighs half as much. Has anyone done one of those yet?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

its lighter than a lsx, so thats a plus, and it leaves a lot of room for a turbo setup, which would greatly increase its power output.

I think its great, i just dont like how tall it is and the lack of aftermarket.

a duramax, thats a heavy mother, and tall too. not the best of fit im sure.

j88l98irocz

iTrader: (4)

If you look earlier in the thread there are pics of the 4.2 in my 89 irocz. The i6 is a great engine it has a awesome sound and is unique and if built right has huge power potential. IMO it does not make a difference what drivetrain someone wants to put in there car.

efi-diy

I turbo'ed a stock '05 4200 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPnB...eature=related

Truck weights ~ 3900# with as tested in the vid...

As far as aftermarket parts there are some parts available and more coming IF there is demand.
http://www.hotrodinlines.com/forum/u...oard=19&page=1

dusty84z

how would a 5.3 be different than an LS1 or 6.0? in the car they would look identical (with the ls1 intake)...if you opened up the hood someone would say, "oh look he has done the LSx swap". you would have to tell them the displacement difference.
If you pop the hood on a 3rd gen with the 4.2 I6 people are going to say WTF is that thing!?!
its not always about making the most power for the same amount of money.

efi-diy

I get people standing around my '51 asking the same question... scratching there heads and when I tell them GM made it it really get them puzzled...

or

http://www.inliners.org/ubbthreads/u...2840#Post62840

TheDarkMinister

So many engine options and ways... I love you tax refund!!!

joker0907

wow this thread just made me rethink what i want to do with my car! Ive always loved I6. They are some of the best engines ever made and I'd Love to turbo charge on of these!

jerryd87

iTrader: (2)

gotta actually look at the dynos, i havnt been on here for awhile due to switching to a 350z platform but the imports smaller displacement really hurts torque hence having a 700-800hp car barely being able to run 10's in most cases. 350 has a little better time with this with the larger displacement but no one has really pushed that engine except a couple places. 1600hp by vinny ten racing is highest hp vq35de but he dosnt talk about it a whole lot. heck its gona cost me 17k to built a system to support 700 hp on my z and the torque curve still wont match even a sbc =/ alot of supras make huge 1k+ hp numbers but compared to larger engines making the same power they are slow in the quarter mile

limequat

Hey, guys. Just wanted to put my 2 cents in here. I've completed this swap into a 1987 Supra. The motor is a 2006 with a transmission from a Pontiac Solstice (bolts up!) I dyno'd 250 hp, box stock. I'm currently working on a VGT turbo from a Duramax. It's sized perfectly for the 4.2.
I think this would be sweet swap for 3rd gens. You can use all junkyard parts, and because no one has caught on, it's all very cheap stuff. Try finding a a good manual trans for a LSX for under $500 or a GT40 turbo for under $200!

You can check out my thread on trailvoy here if interested:
http://forums.trailvoy.com/showthread.php?t=51636

And here' some pics:

TheDarkMinister

efi-diy

I have been running a turbo 4200 for 3 years now.
http://img25.imageshack.us/i/p9010633.jpg/

efi-diy

Actually Steedspeeds manifolds are cut from billet steel and then welded together - I own the one one his web page. Being billet it will never crack.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

Picking up my donor trailblazer Thursday! I got an 06 w/ 50k miles.

EFI, what turbo are you running? I am torn between a 63, 66, or 67mm precision unit. Probably a .82 exhaust

VonKaiser

This is a great idea for a swap. I wonder what all one would need to get this working in a 3rd gen. Anybody with a fully running 4.2 swap with pics/bids and or details on what's needed.