Blade09

So after reading countless build threads on here and learning so much from them I decided I wanted to be able to follow the progress of my building somewhere too.

So I know this is somewhat of a standard swap but I wanted to have this thread for myself and others to be able to look back on what I did as well as have a place to ask questions specific to my build..

Edit: My dad and I are back in the swing of things so hopefully we can get this knocked out!

What I have :
'010' 350 block bored 30 over
speed pro flat tops
freshly turned crank
Eagle rods
Comp XFI 268 with lifters
062 Vortec heads (clearenced for .520 lift)
Holley Stealth Ram
TPI throttle body and ECM tuning with $6E
30 lb injectors from Southbay




-Dan

NathanLewis

port the runners, might be restrictive


pretty sure they used the 305 tpi setup on the 350's and thats why it lacks power after 5000 rpm's

Blade09

Thanks for the info, I planned on hitting the runners, plenum and intake a little bit because I've heard there's alot of useless material in the mouth of the ports left from casting.

Blade09

One of my major questions is that I know I have 19 lb injectors because the tpi setup I got for a steal was from a 305 (thanks to Rbob for helping me figure that out!) but with what I am trying to achieve should I pick up a set or 22 lb stock 350 injectors or go up to the 30s or whatever other choices there are?

Also, I was looking at cams and I like the Comp Cams Xtreme Energy cams but my issue is I don't know if it will be enough to get me where I want to be with this motor. I do need it to be streetable but I'm not too concerned with it being very mild mannered.

Thanks for the help guys, you are all awesome!

Blade09

So when I couldn't sleep last night I found the old article from HR back in 2000 and read the 7 pages of it. It was definitely informative about TPI in general. I'm excited to get into this build, I just need to round of the last parts.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

A couple of quick questions to help know what you might want. Is it a one pc rear main seal or two pc? This lets us know if you can use a reg roller cam or need a flat tappet cam or retrofit roller. Choose the cam first then worry about the injectors.
Also for what you are describing you will need to plan on getting a tune done on the chip.

Blade09

For my first build for this car I am going with an older genI sbc (from an old blazer I believe). It is a 2 pc RMS and I have a part number from RockyMountain for the proper flexplate to go in this car.

I'm hoping I can get everything working the way I want with a flat tappet because I truly don't want to dump a thousand dollars into a cam if I don't have to.

As for the tuning, I have all of the equipment sitting in my shopping cart on Moates, I'm just waiting on another paycheck or two since that is the last thing I have to do after getting the motor installed.

Blade09

Anyone have any thoughts on what cam? After that I just need to figure out fuel injectors and I should be ready to rock and roll on this.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You can't do much to port stock TPI runners. They are made from thin tubing welded to flanges. Aftermarket runners are typically shorter (for higher RPM potential) and larger (to allow more flow), as well as thicker. If you go with aftermarket runners, then the plenum needs to be ported to match.

What 305 heads were you planning on running? Stock RS heads (aka TBI, swirlport, LO3) would not work well on a 350 - they are only good for a stock 305. Some more information on the heads is necessary in order to make a cam recommendation.

Most likely you won't need to go to 30 lb injectors. 24 pound is more like it.

Any idea what year your TPI is from?

Blade09

well I was afraid of that. I gave Rbob the code off the memcal and he said the tpi is from a 87 bird (305, 273, cali emissions) . My problem is that I can't go spend $1000+ on heads. can you make a recommendation of what heads would work better? Also is any particular brand of aftermarket runners better than others?

and yes they are stock lo3's

NathanLewis

edelbrock should be fine

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3870/

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Good luck with your build. A ZZ4 cam would work just fine with your combo by the way. And to make 350hp, your going to have to do a bit of work. Porting the runners is a good first step.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Any TPI heads would be better, whether 305 or 350. Since you're going with a 350, an '87-up TPI setup, and you want to bump up performance, it would make sense to try for 350 TPI heads, which have a casting number that ends with 083. People are selling them all the time, so check the Classifieds for sale forum.

Blade09

Will do, thanks for now. I'll be back with more questions I'm sure.

I really appreciate it guys!

Blade09

Update time:

Still looking for centerbolt heads. Ordered a new harmonic balancer, flexplate, and rod bolts earlier today.

I have a question though.

Is it acceptable to run larger injectors than I need and just turn down the pressure running through them? I found a guy selling a set of 30 lb/hr injectors for $100. If they are in good condition they seem well worth the price. Only problem is I know I don't need that large of injectors (yet). So is it ok to use them and leave room for improvement?

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

Larger injectors are fine as long as you burn a chip to compensate for them. Although you don't need huge injectors yet, it's good to go bigger than what you currently need as that leaves room for improvement in the future. 305s came with 19# stock, 350s came with 22# stock as a reference. 24# would be fine for now, but if you have any plans at all in the future with it, I'd say 28# or 30# if they're cheap. Make sure they're flowtested though!

Atilla the Fun

You can't run LO3 heads on a 350 with flat-top pistons because you'll be around 11.5:1 compression. Nothing you can try will save you from detonation, and you'll be out of power by 3500 RPM.

Blade09

I was afraid of that. Thankfully my machinist friend said the same thing last week. I'm now trying to hunt down some proper heads without breaking the bank.

Thanks for all the info so far guys! I'm definitely learning alot!

Blade09

A little update today. In cleaning up our garage, bear in mind it is a 7 (with one on the lift) car garage that can barely fit a car or two, I uncovered a couple pair of small block heads. There were a set of fuelies and a set of 993's. the 993's are actually in really good shape. After running the numbers they are from a 76 350ci. I am not crazy about the 74cc chambers but it shouldn't be too bad. The aftermarket pistons are slightly taller than the stockers so that should help a bit. I'm thinking it will be around 9:1 when all is said and done.

Also, putting in an order today for eagle rods w/ arp bolts, flexplate, balancer, and bearings.

Still trying to decide on a good cam. Pretty sure I will be able to afford a roller so I need to look through my options.

Also deciding if/what runners I want for the tpi. Will I see many gains from upgrading runners but keeping the rest of the stock intake system?

Sorry for the long post just happy to be back on track!

Blade09

Good news and bad news after this weekend. Got all bearings along with rods, flexplate, balancer, and freeze plug kit ordered. Stripped down the heads to have them hot tanked, hoping to drop them off after work today.

The bad news is, all progress is stopped on my car until I can get my brother's mustang running again. He came in town to visit for the weekend and when he was leaving yesterday he lost all spark coming from the coil. In a rush I picked up a new coil from autozone 10 minutes before they closed but it didn't solve the problem. I'm thinking the distributor control module went out but I'm looking into more today.

More updates to come as parts arrive. Next big parts ordered will be a cam (when I can pick one out) and I need to get a set of 24lb injectors still. Anyone recommend a good place to get injectors from, or are any sites better than others?

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

For injectors I would reccomend Southbay Injectors and mention you are on TGO for a discount. It seems that they stand behind their products and believe in customer service.

Blade09

Thanks for the recommendation! The 24 lb injectors they sell are about $100 cheaper than the others I've found. I'm thinking I'm gonna have to give them a try.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I knew they would be very reasonable and plan on using them myself, when I get a 350 ready, from all the good reviews they get on here. I had called them when I thought I needed injectors for my current V6 that they did not have listed and they were helpful and very, very reasonable plus they told me about the discount.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

If you want to use a roller cam, you need to buy the retrofit lifters (over $300) then a retrofit cam to go with it (not much selection)

houston_kustoms

I cant start a thread of my own but i need help and i need some useful opinions on a matter similar to this. I have a tpi intake off a 87 corvette and the wiring harness for the engine although i have an 87 tpi firebird ecm to go with it. I own a 92 rs camaro 305 tbi with a 700r4. I know i have to change fuel pump but what else am i missing, or will this even work.

Blade09

houston_kustoms: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the intakes are the same on all the tpi systems as they were cast for the 305 and used on that as well as the 350 in both fbodies and vettes.

The ecm shouldn't matter as long as you are putting it in a car with the same size motor and same transmission.

Do you have the intake plenum and fuel rails as well or just the intake base?

Blade09

As for my progress, I am finally done working on my borther's mustang. Fixed ignition problems, busted motor mount, as well as some other odds and ends. He better enjoy it!

I dropped the heads off earlier this week to have them cleaned. I am picking them up after work today. Hopefully my dad will get started on porting them next week.

All of the stuff I ordered last week has arrived. Need to get back to the machine shop to get it all balanced then ready for bottom end assembly.

There is a local car show/meet this weekend though so I'll probably spend most of my weekend cleaning her up.

houston_kustoms

I have intake, fuel rails, plenum, throttle body, ecm, wiring harness, need to get fuel pump, and distributor. I need to get longer throttle cables and i have been doing some research, need modify stock wiring harness a little, for injectors, and buy a 730 speed density ecm for my car. The reason i am doing this swap is i plan on twin turboing my car. i have a sb 400 block but i belive it wouldnt turn up as quick as my 305 due to air flow. my first step is getting the swap under way. I am open to any opinions or critics I am listening.

Blade09

Unless you just want a stronger fuel pump/newer distributor, those should be the same in your car and a tpi car. TPI throttle cables are a must, but those are just a simple stock replacement part. You will need new injectors, especially if you are turboing but I don't know why you need to modify the harness if you have a tpi harness.

I did a little more digging for you and it seems that the egr crossover is different on the corvette intake so you may want to look into it. My tpi is from an f-body so I didn't bother to really read into the vette problems.

Check out Orr's sticky on his tt 400 buildup. Lots of great info in there on turbo'd tpi's.

If you still need more specific info that you can't find here, check the TPI section and do some searching. And if all else fails go ahead and start your own thread.

houston_kustoms

Yeah i done some trading with a kid for this tpi set up i got and he said that it was a vet i don some searching on the throttle body, the type of fuel rails i had dumped out on driver side, and the kind of injectors were plastic tipped, It seems it came off a Camaro.

The wiring harness is definitely off an older car that the wiring harness will not go into my car cause its pinned different. The ecms are different.

The tpi set up runs on 43lbs of pressure unless I am wrong and the tbi set up runs on 13lbs. fuel pump needs changing from what i understand.

Blade09

Don't know how I missed your post, but I just saw it as I was reading over the thread. Can you supply more information please. This is the first I'm hearing about retro-fitting/not even really sure what it means. I was told I should be fine getting a roller cam and springs, albeit springs aren't cheap, and then reusing my roller lifters from the car now.

Any thoughts anyone?

Blade09

The fuel pump should be fine, that would be controlled by the FPR I believe. I plan on running a stronger pump anyway since mine is most likely 21 years old though...

Not sure about the frankenstein TPI though, try starting your own thread and getting tailored answers to your questions. Best of luck though!

Blade09

Finally a little update...

Got an order in for an ALDL cable and tuning equipment from Moates earlier. I am picking up my freshly cleaned and checked heads after work then heading back to the machine shop tomorrow for a final balancing of all the parts and a bit of head work.

More to come!

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

With the early style block you are planning on using it does not have the bosses for the stock style lifter retainer. The one piece seal blocks have the bosses but not all are threaded. Without being able to use the stock roller lifter retainer from your old engine you will need the retrofit roller cam and retrofit roller lifters.
What is meant by retrofit is that the block never came with a roller cam and so you need a cam designed for the early hydraulic flat tappet engines. The retro roller lifters generally have some sort of bar between two to keep them straight or else the rollers will not be lined up properly and consequently destroy the cam. Factory roller lifters have a retainer that is bolted to bosses on the top of the cam tunnel in the valley and lifter area. With this retainer the lifters are kept straight.
With retrofit roller lifters the engine should require shorter pushrods as the retro lifters are taller than regular flat tappet lifters.
Hope this helps some.

Blade09

Very insightful and much appreciated! In all honestly I'm not too upset about going with a flat tappet cam. This motor is getting all too expensive for what I am building so it will be nice to save a few bucks. I'm at almost 2 grand for a motor that will be lucky to make 300 hp from what I've read.

I just want to get it done lol, so much time spent researching and it seems like I'm always missing something!

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I know what you mean. It seems that costs add up exponentially the further along you go.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I was kind of busy 10 days ago and missed your post about finding some heads.

I hope you didn't spend money on those 993's. They're good for holding the garage door open, but that's about it.

Blade09

I know they're nothing special but my machinist is gonna do some machining and basic bowl work on them for cheap and my other machinist is doing the valve work for free. They both commented how the heads were in great shape. They gotta last for now unless you can suggest a reasonable alternative.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There is nothing that can really help those heads. Sorry to hear you've spent money on them.

I already suggested a reasonable alternative a month ago (post #13 - hmmm, maybe that's the problem...).

Blade09

I saw that but I couldn't find any in the area and I am fairly limited on what I can afford as well. The 993's are a heavy casting and seem to flow decent so I'll make them do.

Blade09

So I got my aldl cable and tuning stuff from moates today. I got the datalogger working but I didn't bother to learn what any of the values meant yet so I have no idea what I am looking at lol.

Now for the dumb questions. I was looking at my new Burn2 from Moates and I noticed it can take chips with up to 4 pins more than the ones for our cars. My question is, does it matter how I put the chip in the burner, if so do I line it up with the bottom or the top? I know it sounds dumb I just don't want to break anything.

Blade09

Edit: Thanks once more for saving the day RBob! I successfully loaded a .bin and .xdf file. Now I am just trying to figure out what I am looking at. I glanced at some flags and had no idea what most of them did lol.

I'm beginning to think I'm crazy lol but one small victory at a time; this is what I wanted to do!

-Dan

Blade09

Another little update, hoping to start adding pictures because this is getting boring to look at lol.

Started tearing apart the TPI parts to clean them up. Got the plenum cleaned and degreased mostly. Not beautiful but I plan to powdercoat them all when I have more money.Worked on the runners too. After 25 years of use/sitting they cleaned up pretty well and all of the buildup inside them came out.

Need to pick up the CSI and EGR deletes soon, just haven't felt like ordering them. I get sad watching my bank account go down so quickly lol.

PhoenixFirebird

iTrader: (2)

I have the same Moates tuning equipment you have. Just make sure the chip is aligned all the way at the bottom of the Burn2 programmer, with the notch toward the handle. I couldn't burn a chip for a month because I didn't see the VERY fine print on the Burn2 that said align with bottom. Also, when you burn a chip, ALWAYS verify the program with the buffer.

I'll also be using a flat-tappet block, so I feel your pain. But hey, I have the block sitting here, might as well use it. Flat-tappet cams are cheaper too. Dunno if you've been told, but you need to order a flat-tappet TPI (pre-85 IIRC) style flexplate aswell. I think they're 153-tooth. They run about $40 from Ebay vendors.

Blade09

Yea this build started as a budget excuse to get parts out of the garage but the only thing I'm using are block and crank at this point lol.

As for the flexplate, RBob passed that info along a while back thankfully. He suggested a 1985 z28 flexplate as it was a 153 tooth 2 pc rms that bolts directly to a 700r4 I got it for $25 I think. I'm not looking for anything race approved or anything.

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Agree. Contact southbay on here for injectors if you want some, or at least see what they have to say. I have nothing but great great experience from them. Also you get a 10% TGO discount.

To a certain point its just better to get larger injectors then needed if you can tune the ecm. rather have extra fuel then you need, then to have too little down the road.

Also just a tip, porting polishing heads is not very hard. I did it to mine and when it comes to iron headed junk, youd be surprised how well you can do them yourself and all it cost is your time and effort. Fully professional ported heads will only flow so well when you start with poor heads in the first place. Just my opinion though... If your on a budget, port the heads you have first as its basically free. Thats what I did and a cam at the same time and power was gained. Might not have been the most at that time but it was on a budget.

You get 2 choices, cheep, reliable, fast. What do you pick?

Blade09

Only a couple little updates. I'm just about done cleaning all of the 25 years of crud off of the tpi parts and getting the gasket surfaces clean. I picked up all the parts from being balanced finally!

On a side note, I couldn't help it, I brought this beauty home last night (only paid $275 and it was someone's dd last week. Solid body but motor kicked a rod through the oil pan):


And this is what I am building this motor for:

RRUHL

Just droped a z28 350 tpi in a 305 92 rs worked out pretty easy new harness and ecm of course, put z28 guage cluster in, 84 z28 323 disk rear, things a beast compared to that lil 305 tbi needs to go posi I know lol, in need of a air filter assembly if any one around NJ has on......headman short tube headers cut the air pipes off welded them shut paintem nice, 3inch y pipe ganna run 3 inch striaht pipe to my 3in duel flowmaster "i kno everyone hates them lol" unfortunitly I need a cat since its a 92 so im ganna weled in an electric cut out after the y pipe.....also peoples thoughts on ripping out the egr and using a block off plate? i blocked off the smog pump until i get the delete pully and a/c delete pully kinda broke lol and is a 58mm tb just ganna be a waste of money on a non cammed motor not pushing crazy horses just tryna get more air in akso going to replace air runners and piant them dark chome black and the plenium

Blade09

Another very small update from last night. Started knocking the cam bearings in... Got two of them in place then realized that the head on the tool was broken. Wish I would have just paid the $15 to have them put in at the machine shop instead of ordering another installer. That was a $200 I wasn't planning on spending, or $40 if I go with the cheap sbc one from summit for now. I was using my dad's lisle universal that he paid $300 for 30 years ago lol.

Was hoping to have more done in a more timely fashion as I leave for school next week. For now I'm just trying to get the bottom end all clean and assembled before I go. Still need to call Comp and see what they can do in the means of cam and lifters.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

If I had a cam baring installation tool I would have probably done the same but sometimes it seems the machine shops prices are cheap.
Good Luck