DukeofHurl

I have a question. In the past I had to change my fuel pump which sucks. The worst problem with removing the tank was the filler neck hanging up on the body work on the inside. Going by memory here, can't remeber for sure what that was it was hanging up on. My question is, if it is body work that the neck catches on is it ok to cut a notch in it to allow the neck to pass easily in and out? My fuel sender is broke and the pain in the rear of removing the tank is the main thing stopping me from replacing it. Has anyone done this and had any issues?

DukeofHurl

Sorry, meant to put this in tech/general engine.

scottmoyer

Just did this last night on my neighbors car. I'm not sure how others do this, but I had no issues. I removed the fuel door and the fuel door liner. After dropping the rear and pulling the exhaust, I lowered the tank down a little, swung the passenger side of the tank towards the front while lifting the front of the tank up towards the floor. While doing this twisting motion, I pulled the tank towards the passenger side. It sounds weird, but it was a lift and twist while pulling it out motion. The tank came right out without getting hung up. It started to get hung up only because I didn't lower the rear far enough. Once I lowered it down more, the tank came right out.

I did use the GM service manual and followed each step so that might have made it easier to get out. Definately alot of work, but the experience was worth it. Tomorrow it goes back in.

DukeofHurl

HHmmmm...I have had my tank out twice and it was a HUGE
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HHmmmm...I have had my tank out twice and it was a HUGE PAIN IN THE rear. My dad is a mechanic and helped each time and we struggled and struggled with it each time. I will try this next time, but that sawzall sure looks inviting. In the heat of the moment instant gratification is hard to resist.

scottmoyer

It wasn't easy. accessing all the screws required being a contortionist.

We dsconnected the exhaust at the cat, disconnected the sway bar endlinks, disconnected the rear shocks, removed the two bars (crossmember?), disconnected brake lines from the body, removed the gas filler door and plastic surround, removed the aluminum shields, and probably something else that I'm forgetting. Once we released the tank straps, we just did the twist, pull and slide to get the tank out. we spent less than 3 hours and used only hand tools. If enough stuff is removed, it comes out easy.

My next project will be the heater core. I've heard nightmare stories, but if you follow the shop manuals, I'm sure it's a lot easier. You probably will remove more than everbody else, but it'll be easier.

85 T/A WS6

Removing that helps big time, I dropped the tank by myself, no issues. The higher you can raise your car up the better.

hotdaddysturn

i had to put a fuel pump in my 91 firebird and i unhooked everthing attached to the rearend and lower it to the ground with the back of the car jacked up.it came right out but it is a job

Crux

Sorry to revive an old thread, but Ihave an important question.

What do you use as a jacking point if you're removing the rear axle?
I refuse to even start my car with this new 3.4l in it if I've got a rusty gas tank.
So, I'm opting for a plastic one from a newer camaro..I hope it fits like people claim it will.

Saber

iTrader: (2)

For the jacking points when removing the rear if you look about 12 inches in front of your axle on each side you should see some subframe, thats where i lift my car when working on the rear.

A quick question on the fuel tank though, ill be doing this task this weekend and im wondering scott, if there is anyway you could scan me those couple pages from the service manuel on how to do it,(i have not managed to acquire one of those trusty books yet and my haynes manuel is a bit lacking) or if anyone knows of a thread with some pics about doing this, im a very visual learner so losts and lots of pictures helps me out big time, im just looking to cut down the time this will take, and also is there anything else i should replace while i have the tank out? like any relays or something?

scottmoyer

Let's see if these work

http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump1.pdf
http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump2.pdf
http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump3.pdf
http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump4.pdf
http://www.users.qwest.net/~nscamaro.../FuelPump5.pdf

Saber

iTrader: (2)

Wow scott, thanks a ton, im pretty sure a toddler could follow the manuels directions lol. This will make things a hell of a lot easier.

Graphite07

do you really have to remove the rear end and lower it down to remove ths fuel tank><

scottmoyer

That's a pretty dumb question, don't you think? If it didn't need to be done, then why would so many people say you need to do it. Not trying to be a jerk but that's a lot of work to do if it didn't need to be done. If you can get the tank out without dropping the rearend, everyone here would like to know how you did it!

83mikes893rdgen

gus i just pulled my tank on my 89 firebird i didnt drop the rearend i took the straps loose took the crossmembers or stabilizer bars whatever you want to call them. the key is to jack the car up as high as possible do not put the jack under the trailing arms get in front of them remove the exhaust hanger bracket from the frame on the passenger side take the tire off the pass side take the muffler off and take the whole pipe out drop the tank down and turn it til the pump assembaly is facing the rear of the car the filler neck will catch the first time on some sheetmtal inside of the filler door get a prybar and help it clear a little pull the tank toward the pass side while picking up on it it will catch again on the frame rail then just turn it a little more and pick up and keep pulling toward the pass side and pulling i know i make it sound easy but its a whole heck of alot better than dropping the rearend and going through all that when you dont have to i hope this is helpful to somebody let me know how it works out thanks

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

I think most of us (myself included) would prefer to remove the gas tank without using a 'prybar', since it is possible to remove it without having to pry on anything. It's not really as much work as it seems to remove the rear end, a complete gas tank swap can be done in an afternoon.

scottmoyer

I would like to know how the exhaust gets removed with the rear end in place if it's still the original exhaust! Taking shortcuts can really cost you in the end. The time to remove the rear end doesn't take long and makes the job a lot easier and won't damage anything. There is a reason that GM added that as a step in the process.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

From his description, it sounds like the exhaust came out the passenger side.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

god what a old post lol. im gonna be pullin the tank out eventually. not sure when, but sometime, so thanks scott for those pages!

Saber

iTrader: (2)

wow this thread came back from the dead lol. I agree with scott, I pulled my tank in the way he posted up, took me about 2-3hours from start till it was out. then about another hour to get it all in. I wouldnt be prying on anything because when you drop the rear the tank practically falls out.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

dumb question, but here goes.......are you supposed to disconnect the fuel hoses from the hard lines? Did anyone drain the tank? I imagine trying to get this thing back up there with a load of gas in it would be a PITA. I have my rearend out now for a swap and I'd like to replace the fuel pump while I'm in there. Thanks

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Gasoline is like 6lbs per gallon. So you do the math, on how heavy you want your steel tank to be, as you try to lower it down & fish the filler neck out, without breaking the welds on the filler neck.

The more the tank is empty, the better/easier to is to wrestle with. Andd don;t forget....You'll hafta lift it back up & feed the filler neck back in. Again....Emptier is better.

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

Yes you'll need to disconnect the fuel hoses from the hard lines. I suggest that you think about replacing them while you have the tank down since they are probably about 20 yrs old.

You'll definitely want to drain your tank prior to loosening anything. There is no way you'll be able to get that tank out without breaking anything with a load of gas in it. One way I drained my tank was to disconnect the feed line going to the engine and hook a hose to it going to a gas can. I then jumpered the fuel pump relay in the engine bay which caused the pump to run (you'll have to do a search. I can't remember how I did it exactly) and pump out the gas. This was much easier, faster and safer than trying to siphon the gas out.

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

Not true. I've done it twice with no trouble with half full tanks. But, it might be easier with an empty tank.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Just do the Fuel Pump Access Door mod & cut the time in half & need WAY less tools.

Not to mention, you can do it anywhere instead of only on pavement.

Yeah, yeah.....You COULD do a tank drop on dirt, but that is a last ditch option!

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

When I take it out, I'm definetly cutting an access door in the floor pan for future work if needed. Why not? One reason I want to remove it is cause it is almost 20 years old and I would like to inspect the inside for dirt, etc...plus I may replace the sending unit cause the gas gauge doesnt read right........unless there's another reason I'm not aware of

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Well...its out. I drained the tank by jumping the orange and grey wires on the relay and only had about a pint of gas left in there. I swung the tank down into the trans tunnel and she came out in about 15 minutes. Now for the new gasket, pump, hoses, straps, etc. I think I'll reconsider cutting the access hole though

Jason89RS

iTrader: (2)

Good Choice!

I've only seen one access panel that looked like it belonged there. Most of them don't. If the weak stock pump lasted over 100K and you put in a quality replacement, then you shouldn't need an access panel IMHO.

Oh and congrats on the successful draining and removal.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

yeah...I ordered an acdelco pump for 5.7L tpi

MaDeNMiAMi305

this really helped alot. im getting ready to install a external pump and im gonna sump the fuel tank. i still have questions as to how to go about doing this. ive never removed a fuel tank before. the tank is empty. ive been looking at pictures and doing some research for the last week. one of my questions is by using a external pump what do i do with the hard lines and pick up?> will i still be using this if i sump it? im under the impression i wont. may sound like a stupid question but id reather looks foolish and get it done right then to ruin this and have to fork out more cash.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure what you'll need if you sump it....but I imagine you'll need a different sending unit than what's already in there.

MaDeNMiAMi305

Does anybody know if this is the case? would I need to remove or change anything to hook up an external pump? If the sending unit was shot would this cause my fuel pump to not kick on? I checked the oil sensor pump relay and fuse is there anything else that could cause me not to get pressure or hear the pump?

gurkgurkgurk

im not entirely positive on what youll have to do to make it work. i remember i wanted to do the same but i talked to someone at summit racing and they explained it to me that it would cost a whole lot more than getting a regular aftermarket replacement that fits in the stock place.

i suggest you call summit racing. theyre really knowledgeable about their products and im sure theyll have no problem informing you what youll need to purchase to make it work. i just remember that it was more of a pain in the *** then it was worth.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

If you don't hear your fuel pump kicking on I would check the fuse (mine is located near the battery), then the relay to make sure they are working. There's also a connection above the differential mounted on the body forward of the tank. If they are all good, then you probably have a bad pump which needs to come out if you're going external. Have fun

MaDeNMiAMi305

i checked all of the connections and still nothing. do you have a picture of the connection above the rear end? is that a bad thing that its external? i have a carb and i thought this would be easier for pump service in the future. plus it looks cool. you cant beat function and good looks. im gonna call summit today and see what they have to say. i tried to speak to a tech but the tech center is closed over the weekend. am i still gonna use the hard lines i see in all these pictures of the access doors? im still really unsure of what ill be keeping, removing, and with will not function and stay there. thanks for the help guys.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

You'll have to search for that pic....you can see it if you have the rear of the car raised....its right in front of the tank,. I meant have fun removing the tank....cause I'll bet my last dollar that pump has to come out regardless if its working or not.....it's connected to the fuel supply line. The others are fuel return, evap, and vent. The sender provides the power to the pump and also sends the fuel level signal to to your gauge

MaDeNMiAMi305

ok i found the sender. how many of these wires should be getting power? i didnt count but i belive there is 4 or 5. i just want to make sure i have checked everything before i got through with this.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

not sure but if your getting a reading on your fuel gauge I would assume its working.....but like I said, if your going to an external pump you're going to have to pull the tank anyway.

MaDeNMiAMi305

the fuel gauge is reading 0 and doesnt flutter @ all. i got a chance to call summit and the people there know their ****. they were a big help and guided me through the process. once my fuel filters get here and i fork out the money for a sump ill be ready to make it happen. wish me luck guys.
thnx for the help.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

well you could spend a few clean hours cutting an access to the fuel pump and when it needs changing will take about 20 minutes and you will not get dirty, will not hang up on anything, not drop the rear end, the suspension, rear exhaust, or the tank.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

agree with tony.

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

cam you just have to post some pics of your car. you dont even have anything on your home page.
it looks good but i need to see more.
even works in progress helps.
how do you liked the carbed 305?
what heads and intake are your running.
pics are always good.
and yes i was talking about your car yesterday.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

C'mon dude.........anything worth doing is worth doing right. I pulled that mfr and I replaced all kinds of small stuff like straps, bushings, etc. Now it's done and done right for the next who knows how long. Pull the tank!

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

if it aint broken dont fix it. nothing wrong with my tank, bushings, straps or anything else. will have to change out fuel pump and need easy access.
if you feel that you have the time and equipment to wait for the exhaust to cool to take it off, drain your tank after the exhaust is cool. and either have a rack to work with or you like to play on your back on a roller bed, good for you. i applaud your dedication.
there are only 2 reasons not to do a access panel - you lose strength - so you need a lid that is strong enough to make up for that loss, and you dont want air and liguid getting into the car, so a good rubber gasket is a must.

pureists dont like it but i provide detained instructions on how to do it.

i have to admit that i am lazy and did not want to waste time on doing it by dropping the tank.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

look all i did was cut a 3 sided hole, bent up the metal, swaped the pump, folded the piece of metal back down, mad small tabs and put some SMALL machine screws in to hold it down, took some silicone (cant remember exactly what it was called) and layed it on the gaps and smoothed it out. let it sit for a few hours, put the carpet back on and i was done. yeah with those few hours i couldve dropped the tank but mine took about 15 minutes and i got to take 3 hours to drink my beer and smoke my ciggarettes. drinking beer and smoking sounds much better than sitting under my car fighting rusty bolts.i get no fuems in the car, and if my pump goes out on the middle of the road all i gotta do is prop the hatch, pop open the door and change the pump. put the door back down and screw it in place, drive home and put more silicone on it and drink some more beer! doesnt that sound better than calling somebody to bring out their trailer/flat bed?


btw ill start up a thread for all to see with my plans, and my mods and everything tony. itll be up somehwere aroud tonight. ill pm you the link. and i had a couple questions about your car as well, but instead of hijacking this thread we'll talk bout it later. thanks!

MaDeNMiAMi305

since im installing an external pump i dont have any need for an access door. ive only seen 2 or 3 out of 50 that actually looked like they belonged there. if i was gonna use an in tank pump id consider it cause i like drinking and smoking alot more then droping the rear and removing a tank. if someone is thinking about doing this ask yourself how many times this is gonna need to be done and if you decided to do it.. take the time and do it right. make it look clean.

Ca[maro]88

iTrader: (2)

well maden it will look clean since you have capret over it. youll never see it and nobody will ever know unless you tell them. ive done it to 3 cars so far and never regreted it. and remember, even BRAND NEW parts are faulty sometimes. how would you like to take 3 hours to change it, go to start it and BAM, nothing happens. guess what you get to do tomorrow? another 3 hours. i could change 25 pumps in about 3 hours. youll change 2 in 6.

and yes buying faulty parts does happen, its happened to me several times. not a fuel pump, but its just food for thought.

MaDeNMiAMi305

thats always a sh!ty case when you get a faulty product. i cant disagree with you about the carpet covering it. like i said if it looks good and functions...

SangasongZL1

In kinda new and today I just pulled out my old gas tank which had a leak. I replaced it with a new tank with no leaks but the neck does not line up with the gas door, so I'm pretty **** ha was wondering how I can get it lined up without breaking the neck to the gas tank? Whole reason I replaced it was a leak between the neck and gas tank.

paulo57509

How does the replacement tank neck compare with the leaky one?

Do you still have the old tank?

Sounds like it's too late to exchange the replacement if it doesn't compare well with the old tank. One option might be to see if a radiator shop can repair the old tank.

knightrider5000

My 91 vert just failed smog tday, failed the evap test, So probably the filler neck. Just got a new exaust welded in so now I cant drop the muffler or unbolt it like the stock, and I am betting the mechanic that did my fuel pump a couple years ago was ruff on the removal of the tank and thats why it now has the leak. Why do these tank have the neck connected with welds? Why cant they use a rubber boot with clamps like some other cars, would be easier to swp out a bad fillerneck.