BADMAN

iTrader: (13)

Not sure if this is the right section to post this but it needs to be read and action taken. Badman


Dear Fellow Enthusiast,

As a SEMA Member Company, we have received an Urgent Legislative Action Alert from the association. You may be interested in this legislative alert and the possible impact it will have on your hobby.

The Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) is a non-profit trade association composed of more than 6,800 member companies involved in all aspects of the automotive industry, from manufacturers to car clubs and race teams.

The SEMA Action Network (SAN) protects your hobby from unfair or unnecessary legislation on national and local levels. Through distribution of information and the collective voice of automotive enthusiasts and businesses, the SEMA Action Network has successfully impacted legislation concerning scrappage laws, equipment standards, registration classifications, emissions regulations, and more.

The following information is directly from SEMA. If you would like to contact the lawmaker, follow the instructions in the alert.


Thank you for your time,
Your Friends at Summit Racing Equipment





Washington lawmakers are drafting a large economic stimulus package to help create jobs and rebuild infrastructure. They want to include a nationwide scrappage program which would give U.S. tax dollars to consumers who turn-in older cars to have them crushed, as a misguided attempt to spur new car sales. The lawmakers need to scrap this idea.

The stimulus package is being drafted right now. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) wants to introduce the bill on January 6 and have it approved by Congress by January 20, so that President Obama can sign it into law after he is inaugurated.

Contact House Speaker Nancy Pelosi IMMEDIATELY To Oppose Cash for Clunkers!
Call: 202-225-0100
Click here to send an electronic message: http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
Talking Points
Feel free to use any of the statements below as a starting point for your message to Speaker Pelosi.
I am [calling/writing] to urge lawmakers not to include a “Cash for Clunkers” provision in the economic stimulus bill. Owners who turn in vehicles for crushing would receive a "minimal" payment to purchase a new car. This is a misguided attempt to spur car sales and claim that the country’s air quality or fleet fuel mileage is being improved.


I work for [company name] located in [city and state]. My company is part of the specialty automotive industry, an industry which enables consumers to enhance their vehicle’s appearance, performance, comfort, convenience and safety. “Cash for Clunkers” programs deny our small businesses the availability of older cars necessary to develop and market their products and services. The programs will hurt my company and our customers.


“Cash for Clunkers” programs threaten enthusiasts nationwide with the loss of valuable parts and parts-cars for repair, restoration, and customization projects. The programs also risk destroying classic, historic and special-interest vehicles, our American heritage.


Cars turned in for scrappage often barely run, or are rarely-driven second or third vehicles that have a minimal impact on overall fuel economy or emissions.


“Cash for Clunkers” programs will reduce the availability of affordable transportation and repair parts used by low-income drivers. It will also compete with the Salvation Army, the Purple Heart and other charities that rely on vehicle donations to raise money.


“Cash for Clunkers” ignores better policy options. If Congress wants to act, support for repair and upgrade is a better choice and a win-win for consumers, dealers, manufacturers and repair shops. Significant emissions and fuel economy improvements can be achieved in older vehicles through relatively simple and inexpensive means: repaired/replaced exhaust systems, tune-ups, etc.


We hope we can count on you to reject “Cash for Clunkers.” Thank you for your consideration on this very important matter.
If you choose to send a message to Speaker Pelosi, please send a copy of your message to SEMA also:
E-mail: briand@sema.org
Fax: 202/783-6024

jaykar

iTrader: (1)

RANT
Everytime I see, hear or read anything about Nancy Pelosi, California's gift to Washington my blood
pressure goes up.

How this person ever got elected I'll never understand.

She thinks about things like this while she fly's back home
to California from Washington on weekends on a private
jet at our expense.

Okay, feel better now

Later

scottmoyer

Board guidelines state that political related content is not allowed on TGO, however, this is a SEMA action request to protect the future of our hobby. As long as this remains SEMA related and not a Pelosi bashing fest, I'll let it remain. Thanks for the info!

Kevman

Thank god I'm Canadian

BADMAN

iTrader: (13)

Thanks. I try to keep things auto related and if I ever cross the line,let me know.However,when I hear the name Pelosi,bashing does come to mind.LOL

Z2EIGHT

When they start crushing L98s and 1LE Cars...were gonna be sorry.

Not to mention all the 305s that never had a chance to shine.

jccaclimber

Pause, breathe, hang on a second. Lets see some details on this eh? First, unless they offer to pay people more than junkyards do ($200, no questions asked, non running vehicle around here) it will not matter one bit. It is probably not enough money that it is more than someone could sell a running car for. How many people do you really think are going to just get rid of their car for what the government is going to pay? Next, what is going to happen to these cars? I hope nobody is silly enough to believe that the gov. will retrofit them with emissions stuff to get them back on the road. Given that, they will be sold to whoever pays the most. This is likely to be people who want to sell them for parts (this is how existing programs have worked). This is not so much crushing yards as it is scrap yards which, if anything makes more parts available.
I am not trying to support this idea, and I am not trying to bash it, because I do not know much about the program. However, breathe, take a step back, and then take a stance. It seems people are over reacting a bit here.

fryer1979

At times like this I am ashamed to be from California. But rest assured that I (and many others like me) were not part of the crowd voting princess Pelosi into office.
I have seen this bill brought up before and it has been defeated. Unfortunately the future is not so bright this time around. Please, as a Californian and a fellow F-body enthusiast, contact your elected representatives and ensure your voice is heard. No matter how small the step, a step in the wrong direction is never a good thing.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

In hindsight, this "cash for clunkers" idea would work in our favor if lawmakers focused their attention on used and older foreign cars, as opposed to domestics. The problem isn't older vehicles, the problem is GM's global agenda, as well as ridiculous spending habits in which we as the public are now responsible for through the increased national debt. If the big three focused their attention on their own country for once, lowered the cost on new vehicles, improved their vehicles, and helped new buyers get approved, there wouldn't be a problem. However, globalized capitalism has it's stronghold on big business....

GTA50

Acutally we have had a similar program in operation in the Fraser Valley area here in British Columiba (Vancouver up to Chilliwack) and I can tell you it diminished the number of Third Gens or other collectable cars that I see on the road. What is has done is get rid of the cars that can't pass emissions and aren't worth fixing.

Governments in my opinion and experience rarely back off an idea, but here is the website for the program here in BC. That might be the direction that California can be swayed to move to.

http://www.scrapit.ca/

Guest

In case it wasnt clear, this is not California legislation, it will apply to the entire United States.

Kevman

Thats unusual with the 'Scrap-it' program, they lowered the safety standards, and raised up the emmisions here, been seeing alot of Evo's here lately..

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Well I replied. I think it unfortunately got cut off. I did state that I thought it was irresponsible to descriminate a car just based on its age. And that care must be taken to Maintain out American Heritage. Keeping a well maintained car on the road is proven to create less polution and waiste than building a new one.

IrocZ_85

iTrader: (1)

I don't even know where to start. Why go after foreign cars alone? I love my 1966 VW Beetle and 87.5 Audi GT just as much as my 85 IROC and all the other Chevys I have owned. I grew up with my father racing and wrenching on American muscle cars, but he worked as a VW tech, now take a guess as to what I do for a living!? Targeting foreign cars makes no sense. There is just as strong need to older foreign cars to be around for the pepole that love those cars just as much as we love our Chevys. What about the guy whos restrong an old VW or 240Z? We need to stick to gether as "car guys" no matter what type of car you decide to own. Do you really think that the legislators care what kind of car it is any way?

America is building good cars, its just that the Big 3 cant get over the stigma of all the crap they have built in the past. (80s Ahem) If you want to get the cost down, then talk to the UAW. Bush gave the Big 3 the a "bailout" with the stipulation that the UAW has to accept a pay cuts for its workers so their wage is competitive with a US Honda, Toyota, or Mercedes plant. Guess what, they are trying to fight it? WTF??? Its better to let GM fold completly and have them all lose their jobs than make a couple of bucks less and hour? If it were me, I would much rather go from $24 to $22 an hour and keep my job, than to lose it all together, then be forced to work at Wal-Mart for $6.

DAVECS1 hit the nail on the head. What all these people cant comprehend is that the most environmentally sound thing to do it to SAVE the cars ALREADY built

I could go on but it would just turn into a political rant, which we all need to avoid!

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I agree. This doesn't appear to be anything to get excited about. Taken at face value, even if this bill passes, it won't affect much, if anything. Because, seriously, are any of us going to give up our cars for the few dollars we'd be offered? Of course not. Even people who drive real clunkers wouldn't either. How could they? What else are they gonna be able to buy, that runs, for the few dollars they'd get from this? Just another clunker.

But let's remember, this is "political," afterall, and unfortunately, a bill like this is always just a "mask," hiding the real "face," and sometimes, several "faces." And it's what's behind the mask that could be the problem later on.

Since bills like this usually fail, to get one passed will mean finally getting a "foot in the door." It's one of those issues that politicians hope will finally "get the ball rolling." And to use a couple more cliches, this could "snowball" as it "rolls downhill" on a "slippery slope" toward finally getting all older vehicles off the road. Because, believe me, once one bill finally passes, the politicians will begin finding it easier to pass other ones.

So this really could be an issue afterall, and it must be unmasked, stomped-on, stopped, melted, crushed, etc. Of course, that's just my

L695speed

I am going into the restoration business and I can tell y'all that this bill is a load of #*%$. Most older cars are either museum pieces or not driven enough to justify calling them an issue. I agree with the statements that keeping cars on the road is less of an environmental issue than making new ones. I mean sure there are some really trashy cars on the road but I mean some of us have cars that while they might look like trash they are works in progress........thus they might look like junk but they are being restored. In my opinion they should get rid of all the millions of tauruses and accords and etc and give people at least what would amount to a good down payment on a new car. I know mine would be considered a clunker by the bill's standards but I could put it back on the road for way less than getting a good used car, have some more fun as well.

Guest

What I've noticed around here is that the mid-age cars are disappearing. We dont have rust issues, so I'm sure its the emissions and junker laws doing it. There's still a fair bit of Camaros and Firebirds running around, but try to find something like a Caprice or Cutlass. The values drop down in the area between the "classics" and the newer cars and they end up getting crushed. So at least here the intent is to get rid of older cars and to a degree it seems to be working. Not perfectly or entirely of course, but fairly effective for an 'elective' procedure... and keep in mind it takes a stroke of a pen to change that to 'mandatory'. I lost count how many laws started as unobtrustive and a few years later changed completely. If you like having cars around older than 5 years old, or dont have much interest in buying a new car every 5 years like they want you to, might want to contact your representatives.

okfoz

The government for years has been trying to pass legislation to get rid of older cars. There has been a ton of lobbying from special interest groups, that want to clean up the environment. In the end the government has realized that it could ultimately cause a lot of people to go out of business. This hobby is bigger than many other hobbies and to eliminate it could cause disastrous repercussions to our economy... All you have to do is mention the economy and they back down.

What the tree huger groups fail to report that our average global temperature has actually decreased .1° over the past 10 years. NOT increased as they want you to believe. If you go against their agenda some of them come after you, they are very hard core, almost like a terrorist jihad approach. Not all of them, some of them mind you.

I wrote my Representative and both Senators, and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. A little searching and you can find links to email them. Snail mail may take too long...

John

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

How can anyone form a strong enough opinion about the program based on the information provided in the original post to send a letter to a representative? there was ONE SENTENCE in that entire mess that even described what the program did, and even that one sentense was written very subjectively:

"They want to include a nationwide scrappage program which would give U.S. tax dollars to consumers who turn-in older cars to have them crushed, as a misguided attempt to spur new car sales."

If someone can post the actual language of this section of the bill, then maybe we can form education opinions about it. Overall, I don't see what the problem could possibly be though. It's clearly a voluntary program. People with nice older vehicles would obviously choose not to participate. Cars that are turned in will go to salvage yards and increase the availability of used parts for us and get some of the scummy P.O.S. thirdgens off the street. That only helps the nice ones to lose the reputation they get from the over-abundance of poor examples on the road.

scottmoyer

I did some searching and could only find posts and websites discussing the SEMA action requested above. I could not locate the bill # or any information on Pelosi's website. At this time, this is the only information available to work with.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

You can have my IROC when you pry it from my cold, dead hand...

Ward

iTrader: (1)

It's optional. Turning in your nice, restored thirdgen for a couple grand savings on a new car wouldn't make sense. Turning in your primered 82 dodge diplomat that runs like crap would make sense.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

exactly... a lot of the outrage is just another typical knee-jerk, uninformed reaction.

Guest

Really?
When they first passed the seatbelt law here, they could only cite you for it by pulling you over for some other moving violation and tack that on, and it was a small fine. Now its a huge fine, and its become its own moving violation with little more than small committee changes that were never voter approved or full legislature approved items. They could do the same thing in DC with a junker bill, its easy once a law is passed to change a single term from voluntary to mandatory. Knowing that its Pelosi that started it, she likely copied the Cali law verbatim.

I guess if you dont care about thirdgens being crushed for no reason other than failing smog (and I know of this happening personally to cars that IMO otherwise were fine) then you might as well not care and call this a knee-jerk reaction by an uninformed fool when the fool is in the mirror.

okfoz

EXACTLY!, That Knee-Jerk reaction is a reaction BECAUSE some of us understand that the mentally inept Politicians have lobbyists up their wazoo and any chance that the Lobbyists get the twitch their finger to try & get what they want they do it.

THERE has been legislation before to actually eliminate ALL old cars on the grounds of Smog, air pollution emissions, Gas guzzler etc... It was back in the 80's and it failed, because of what it would do to our economy. Even though the Average temperature of our planet DECREASING is "just a fluke" and The Government telling us that we need to use public transportation more, and drive less NOW they are not getting enough taxes... IT is all a bunch of BS...

The problem is, if we sit back and say NO NOW to this then they are less likely to take it to the next step. Politicians do ANYTHING to get reelected, if they had to sleep with their mother to get reelected they would do it daily. With that said if they think for one moment that by passing this that there is a small chance they could lose their next election because of it then they will back off...

Our government has no idea how to curb spending, even when they do not have the money they keep spending, and they think that someone else in the future will have to take care of it. WELL the future is tomorrow and we are having problems today because of bad decisions made BY THE GOVERNMENT. GM, Ford & Chrysler are not in trouble because of the foreign manufacturers and the economy, they are in trouble because the Government has mandated things and taxed them in a way that they are not competitive with Foreign manufacturers. The GOVERNMENT allowed the banking collapse by making loans to people that could not afford it, in turn it artificially inflated the values of homes and now that no one can pay for them the Banks are failing. The Banks are to blame, but the Government was not innocent. Keep in mind the reason we are in the predicament we are in is because of Congress, (House & Senate) passed laws and we are now in this predicament...

In short NEVER EVER let the government do what you can do for yourself. WE live in what is called a Democracy, it's "For the People By the People" and when we give up things that we should be in control of and the government should have nothing to do with then we turn into a Socialistic country... Which is basically Steal from the Rich so the people that do not have, and in some cases do NOT want to work can get something. It is no different than giving everyone in school the same grade, no matter what your performance, you all get C's, You work hard on that paper, you would have gotten an "A" on the OLD system, but your friend who scratched some crayon on a piece of paper and would have gotten an "F" gets the same grade... Remember "Spread the Wealth around"... Heck if I knew I could stay at home all day and get paid the same for it working on my car, I would.

John

Fyrstorm

iTrader: (1)

Bite your tongue! Our gov't can be more a**l than the US! I'm wondering when, not if, the california type rules will come here. Or at least something very similar. It's a bit comforting knowing the rules for emissions testing has been loosened up a bit to renew your license.

A little unrelated but an example was not having Stern in Canada when he first moved to Sirius, 4-6 months later it was allowed. It's crazy stuff like that that makes me wary of what our gov't does.

John in RI

iTrader: (167)

The "market" will determine our hobbies fate. If it occurs as a result of some new law or by simple chance; market conditions trump everything else.

When scrap metal ( Light Steel ) was priced at $150 a ton,........ EVERYONE in the CT, RI, MA markets was crushing every last car that would fit on the trucks. There was very little loyalty to the hobby when prices were so high. ( remember all the missing manhole covers from people turning them in for scrap ! ) 3 months later the "markets" crashed - much like oil - and L/S was worth $25 a ton.

Prices have stabilized here in the Northeast (L/S worth 90 a ton today) but it's too late for all those cars that were sitting in thousands of boneyards effected by last years insanity. I personally saw no less than a dozen Thirdgens crushed last season that would have normally remained in the boneyards to get picked over by weekend hobbyists under normal circumstances.

The bottom line is that the gov wants to maipulate the market it will. It is very easy to make it worth while ( $$ ) for "Junk-yard Joe" to want to crush that 89 GTA sitting in the back corner rather than waiting for someone to pick it clean.

If your an auto hobbyists right now - than seize the day ! This ain't the 70's, 80's. 90's boys & girls, Times have changed. With the US gov now a preferred stockholder of many of it's largest companies you will be the first citizens in USA history to be voting politicians into power to watch out for COMPANIES INTERESTS over that of People. Time is short so act on your hobby now !! ( GM is more important than Junk yard Joe. )

Democracy,.....Not exacly !

okfoz

The Government in the end does not care one bit about hobbiests, business or anything else that does not help them get reelected. OR if they can line their pockets... Blagovich anyone? Keep in mind the only difference between the Government and the Mafia is the government is "legal".

John, you should know about the problem RI had and their genius solution to partially supplement public transportation with Gas taxes??? All of a sudden when people were riding the bus they ended up running short on funds... This is part of the problem with Government, they cannot see past the next election... Someone probably got reelected because of the idea, only to learn that it did not work.

IROCmenace

iTrader: (1)

We all have to remember that although our hobby is popular, there are still millions of people that just see a car as transportation. They don't care what fuels it, they don't care how it looks, how fast or exciting to drive it is. All they want is a car that starts everytime and takes them to and from work with heat and a/C. Everything else is secondary. I hate that it is coming to this. This may be only a voluntary program. But what is to come in the future?
Does anyonme remember hearing about global warming before the past couple years? I remember it from when I was a kid in the 80's. I lived in Arizona and pollution control was already an issue. But until the past few years most people looked at at the global warming crowd as a bunch or over zealot hippies. Not to say they are not now, but did you notice that when gas was 4-5 bucks a gallon two arguements came together into one big arguement? The global warming, alternative fuels (to end reliance on foreign oil) arguements were hand in hand and now that it is around a buck and a half I haven't heard much about either. Now it is the economy and Jan20th in the news. But once gas is back up to say 6-8 bucks a gallon, how many more leftist programs will we see that make it mandatory to turn in any OBD I car for reasons of fuel crisis, efficiency, and pollution control. I can see it now, the "Be a Patriot and crush your old American car" program.
Being upset becuase of this current proposal isn't just being upset with what is on the table but what more stringent proposals could come in the future. Even though we can supposedly convert most thirdgens to run on e85 for 400-600 bucks ours and many other older cars are a target.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I knew the "slippery slope" argument was coming. The basis for my "knee-jerk reaction" comment is the fact that the best founded opposition to this alledged legislation is the presumption that it is identical to an existing legislation in California. I maintain that anyone who bases their opinion of the legislation on what very little information is provided in the original post of this thread is reacting primarily on presumption, speculation and fear. If you don't like the legislation, that's fine. But at least know what it is before you oppose it. There is a 50/50 chance that I'll agree with you once the facts are out on the table.

As an aside, thank you JOHN IN RI for discussing the scrap steel prices during the past year and how it affected junk yards. I noticed how tough it was to find 3rd gens this past year or so, but didn't connect the dots. This gives me hope that they'll start showing up in yards again so I have parts to pick!

Guest

The House and Senate versions are... it seems... identical and are both available to read about if you want.
HR520
S247

"Accelerated Retirement of Inefficient Vehicles Act of 2009"

Apparently the SAN(sema action network) issued a report saying the house bill is dead, but GPO Access says its in the energy committee along with the senate version.

Specifically, they're targeting vehicles with EPA fuel mileage ratings below 18MPG. From what I've heard about the Camaro and Challenger and the federally required MPG ratings that likely refers to the lowest mileage obtained by the vehicle... in our case city mileage. They'd offer $1500 for our junk if you buy a used car, and $2500 if you buy a new one.

Anyway if you're curious what the intent is, read the title of the bill. I quoted it above.

blg0720

Right...here's a piece of the article on MSNBC.com...

So, effectively, what they're talking about here is the land-yacht type cars which get 10 mpg in town. Not our 24/34 birds.

okfoz

Max,
I think those are the NEW versions of the bill... Again, it sounds like a "Good Idea" Unfortuantely Government too often takes something TOO far, they get their foot in the door only to destroy it. As far as I am concerned they can go away, keep away from our hobby. I ahve already contacted my congress people and Senators to Just say no.

I got a message from Summit Racing this last time.

Guest

Since when are thirdgens EPA rated at 24 city? They are 16-17 city.

blg0720

From http://82firebird.com/83pressrelease.aspx ...pertaining to 4 cyl. obviously, but the bodies are all the same...

Obviously, the V8 would get less. But they WERE capable of producing higher ratings.

L695speed

I was surfing the web and I came across this on Speedtv's website.

http://automotive.speedtv.com/articl...awns-protests/

I think this idea should be put in the WTF file (excuse the language but thats what it is) Lobbyists are sometimes really stupid but in this case the lobbyist and SEMA are right. Also I am almost certain that people who own the older cars are not stupid and they know what they can really get for their car and if they really wanted to get rid of it then they would get what they want for it. However if the #$@%ing government starts going through the registrations and sending letters similar to eviction notices saying that you have X days to get rid of said old car or we will come and do it then I will personally destroy the tow truck that comes to pick up my TA before they do it.

I am ranting but whats next? They will authorize the police to give out tickets to those who are driving old cars? If thats the case then I will rip up the ticket in front of the judge; flip off the courtroom then walk out and do a tire smoking burnout on the way out.

And I think if they get 18 or worse in the city they are targeted as well, Dad said when they put MTBE in the gas he went from an easy 21-23 mpg daily driving to 17 mpg. Ethanol is worse because you are using more of it and it doesn't burn as efficiently as my Engine Professor says "anytime you add alcohol to gasoline your mileage drops" (yes Ethanol is really corn alcohol).

And finally if you really think about it what does more harm to the environment? A 1966 AC Shelby Cobra with a 427 that gets 10 MPG, any Ferrari or Exotic that gets 12 at best or the 2005 GMC Suburban that gets 15 on the highway that is driven everyday all year round?

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Not sure I agree with the last part of your statement, I'd reather have a new SUV driving around then a 25 years honda. even if the SUV gets lower mileage, it's still putting out less polution, engines now are much cleaner. but I do think this law is a waste of time.

Guest

Were doesnt matter, what they did get rated at does. So any V8 thirdgen I know of would fall into this category of being a candidate to be crushed.

blg0720

RED_DRAGON_85

absolutely true.
this is the main argument we have for our hobby.
most collector cars and ferraris and such are driven a max of around a thousand miles a year.
that suburban might go 10k in one year.

the other thing most people overlook is 18 wheelers.
most get ~3-6 mpg on the highway when loaded.
and that is the newer ones in good running condition.
if we were to say improve their mileage to ~4-8 do you realize how much it would help
some of the older trucks driving around here put out plumes of soot that you would not believe.


as for the bill, its BS.
the only good thing i see coming of it would be that i could turn in my caprice (big *** boat of a car) and get more than i could ever hope to sell it for.
i agree about the fact that if this passes, it wont be long before its mandatory.
cant let it happen

CamaroCop

I usually try to keep my comments about such things quiet, but I'm afraid I need to speak.

For years now the government has been following guidelines set by CARB, though usually around 10 to 15 years behind California. In my opinion what this points to is more government control of our lives. I have a large family and only one income (under $40,000/year). Even if the government gave a substantial return for older vehicles on the crush program it would not be enough for many hard working Americans to purchase a newer vehicle.

With a mortgage, utilities, groceries, and such, my personal budget for a vehicle is around $300/month. I have checked, there isn't a single vehicle made today that falls into that budget that I could purchase. Considering I have to have a vehicle large enough for 5 children.

I get disgusted when the government says for someone to just purchase a newer vehicle. Many of us CANT! We work hard to keep the ones we have in decent running order no matter how old they are. My '92 RS is the newest vehicle I own (aside from my '08 Charger police cruiser, and that was purchased by my municipality). There is no way I could afford a decent new(er) vehicle.

As far as emissions, my first car (a 1965 Shelby GT350) had less emitions parts per million than any vehicle that was produced in 1999. That was the last time I had that vehicle tested.

I just wish Uncle Sugar would keep his big honking nose out of the lives of the citizens of this great country.


CamaroCop

Mark in Maine

This is scary to think about - I can't believe that the speed limit hasn't been lowered to 55 m.p.h. yet,but it has only been a couple of weeks. Maybe - just maybe, this crusher bill would, if enacted, contain language exempting specialty vehicles with a limit put on the number of miles that one's car could be driven each year. Or, as someone said above, maybe it won't amount to anything at all. We can only hope . . .

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Where does it say they are going to take your cars? it looks to me like this would be voluntary. Am I missing why people are getting upset about the goverment forcing you to turn over your car?

Mr355

Does the government frown on fire coming from your pipes? Because my emissions are coming up and I don't know what to say...

blg0720

Because the TAs we all own and love would be losing a lot of parts cars because the dumb-@$$es who didn't take care of them and don't care about them would turn them in for crushing and cash.

And we all fear that, eventually, the program would become mandatory and you'd lose those precious early third-gens you love. You'd lose both your Crossfires AND your L69. Your red, blue, and black might earn the government's driver some black and blue when the tow truck shows up.

L695speed

My parents and some others I know have been saying that for years.....

I was just throwing out a scenario when I said the next thing that will happen will be the government forcing us to turn them in. I don't honestly think it will go that far. I mean who is stupid enough to go out and crush a Ferrari 250 GTO just because it doesn't get good gas mileage.....along with a whole host of other cars like Duesenburgs and Bugattis (not the new ones) Talbot Lagos etc.

blg0720

Well, since it's obvious our gov't doesn't care how much things cost...

89RS.SS

so the house and senate bills are the same. we need to take action call you congressmen/congresswomen today. dont just sit around and wait for them to come take our babies out of our driveways and garages to meet the untimely fate they dont deserve. if this bill passes it will drastically change the car hobby if theres even one left. an estimated six million cars, trucks, motorcycles, and suvs will be crushed in a time span of about four years. here are some links.

http://automotive.speedtv.com/articl...-protests//P1/

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62505

House bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-520
Senate bill:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-247
click on full text to read the bill. click on the sponsers/co-sponsers names to get a link to their website for contact information.

rideon1200

Am I the only one that thinks this is odd. Chevy grabbed the bailout. But, has anyone tried to buy the 2010 Camaro, most dealers are sold out of there allotment for this year. Also, some have a waiting list already for the 2011. WTF! Did they need it for prodution or just standing in line for free cash.

blg0720

Yes, but the Camaro is one car out of the whole line, and it's probably been snatched up by collectors. When it comes to anything bigger than the Cobalt, Chevy isn't selling them.