Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

Ok,,,,I went to test fit the dizzy lastnight and found out the MF'er wont go down all the way.....its about 1/2in or more from being seated flat on the intake...Im sure I have it seated in the notch on the oil pump shaft cause I can feel it seat on there.

Heres what I got.....a brand new MSD billit distributor..correct number for HEI
and a mellings oil pump...

the oil pan is on and the intake in down and sealed....I measured from the top of the oil pump shaft to the intake and then measure the bottom of the dizzy and its differrent by the amount Im off...

someone told me the oil pump shaft may not be seated all the way...thus keeping the dizzy from seating right...get a long screw driver and to try tapping it with a hammer

how can I check to make sure its seated? do I have to take oil pan off AGAIN!?? the motor is on an engine stand and not in the car yet.


are there different size oil pump shafts? could I have the wrong one?

I swear! this is motor is becoming a bigger nightmare by the day...I cant wait to get this thing finished.

AlkyIROC

Take the long screwdriver and "turn" the oil pump shaft until it lines up with the slot on the bottom of the distributor.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

Ive done that!...and it still too tall
could the shaft not be down all the way into the pump?

Guest

Possibly. Is it the all metal shaft, meaning not the stupid nylon retainer at the bottom?
Try turning the oil shaft and tap the end of the screwdriver. It takes a little bit of effort to get the metal shaft to lock into the oil pump all the way. I dont think thats going to be 1/2" though, something less than that.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I had pretty much everything go wrong on my build, but I sure didn't see anything like that.
My oil pump drive just dropped into the oil pump quite easily. Try using a magnet and lifting up on the oil pump drive shaft, if you can, pick it up and look at it, see if theres anything suspicious, then drop it back down and check it out.
I'm pretty sure there's only one size length of distributor, so intake manifold height (can only realistically account for ~1/8" or so...), or oil pump is it.

Are you SURE the oil pump flat blade is engaged? I'm thinking maybe it's the cam gear that's engaging and stopping you? Maybe the dist gear is on upside down? (This is pretty far fetched, I don't even think this is possible, just tossing out things to look for...)

MightyMouse

The oil pump drive shaft is not engaging the slot at the end if the distributor. If it wont go in all the way pull the distributor out about an inch and turn the rotor about 1/8th of a turn. Then drop it back down, it should fit after a few attempts.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

is the end of the Mellings shaft and the bottom of the MSD distributor a different shape? not allowing for the 2 to join properly?

MightyMouse

I am not sure but you can look at them and ditermine if they are the same shape.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Yea, you can remove the drive shaft with the magnet like I said, then make sure they will 'jive' in your hands, above the engine while you can watch it.

They're both meant for an SBC application, so they should fit fine. I mean, a burr on the shaft could be stopping it, and that might explain it.

rgarcia63

With the Dizzy that high of the intake, I don't believe it's engaging the cam gear. When you turn the crank does the Dizzy turn at all?
Some Dizzys do need shims (my Proform, but 0.5" is too much.)
Pictures would be nice.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

well let me go find a magnet that I can stick that far down in there so I can get it out ....and I'll let you guys know what I come up with when I get home...Im at work right now...

thanks for the ideas...
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I cant get any pictures...the intake is on and the oil pan is on....alls I can do is look down the dizzy hole....when I get home I'll stick it back in there and turn the crank and see if the dizzy turns also....

its a SBC gear on the end of the dizzy, right? and the cam should have the correct gear too?

Apeiron

Don't bother, the collar on the shaft won't let it come out through the top.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Its not seating on the oil pump shaft. Turn a tad and slide down on the cam gear. THEN it should slide even more to the end. I hope you are feeling both phases and not just the initial slide on the cam gear.

Slayre

I guess on the upside the engine being out makes a huge difference if you need to take the pan off . But it really does sound like the Dist. gear is not seating into the cam gear. The shafts will engage but you will have that 1/2 space if the gears don't mesh. I would lube the dist gear set it back in and raise it in and out and turn it about 1/8 turn each time until it seats. Keep in mind if your 180 degrees out the rotor cap will be facing number 8 cylinder. I'm guessing you have #1 on TDC when putting the Dist in?

Gumby

I just went through all this. I sent my dizzy off to a guy in Nevada and had it pro built. ANd with the new end housing/bearings its a new tight fit that took me forever to get in right. Don't worry about getting it back how it came out. I took pics and made marks but that wasn't helpful...... Just keep pulling it up and trying different close to original spot where it came out. Thats when I finally had luck, when I stopped trying to get it right back in the same way it came out. Ya got plenty of twist room to adjust timing, twist n stab till it seats.

SpitotRs305

might sound stupid but make sure the gear on the dist. is on correctly. seen that one once dont think that it cant happen

Vader

There is a remote possibility that the distributor is designed for a tall deck block (like an HT383 or tall deck BBC) and got tossed in the wrong box or given the werong part number. The easy way to check that is to compare the length under the flange to your old distributor.

There is another very remote possibility that the distributor has the wrong gear on it (reverse rotation cam - YES, Mildred, they are different, like a Comp 411 versus a Comp 413).

Most likely it has more to do with the cam/oil pump drive engagement, but strange things can happen.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

You might have some big block parts in there. Hopefully it is just a tight installation as was suggested.

Slayre

I am interested in the outcome. Its one of those things that will probably make you go Hmmm.

AlkyIROC

SBC and BBC distributors are the same length unless you have a tall deck BBC distributor. Even then, aftermarket intakes have a recessed distributor hole to allow the use of a normal distributor on a tall deck block.

Personally, I think it's just an alignment problem. When you drop the distributor in, the shaft will turn as it goes past the cam gear. The oil pump shaft needs to be turned so that it lines up with the shaft after it's turned and gone through the cam gear. Sometimes the oil pump shaft needs to be turned just a little bit.

Can you stick a flat tip screwdriver in and turn the oil pump shaft at all? The screwdriver doesn't need to be very long. 6-8" is long enough to reach the oil pump shaft.

I use a dummy distributor I made up to turn the shaft and allows me to prime the engine. Take an old distributor. Pull the gear off and pull the shaft out. Once the shaft is out, cut the top of the housing off. Reinsert the shaft and gear and put a stop collar around the top of the shaft. Grind the teeth off the gear so it doesn't mesh with the cam gear. This is the best tooth for priming the engine. The old distributor housing easily lines up with the oil pump shaft and also seals off the cam bearing oil holes so that the cam bearings can also be prelubed. You need a 1/2" drill to turn the shaft and prime the engine.

rgarcia63

The suggestion that the Dizzy might be for a taller deck is a good one.

The reason I asked if it will turn with the crank is because I don't bother trying to align the pump slot, I just drop it in, push down on it while turning the crank clockwise (extra pair of hands) once it's in I continue to turn it until the rotor is pointing where I want it, then pull it out and bring #1 to TDC on compression stroke and drop it back in.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

why not remove the cam gear and try to fit it together then? if it goes then mayb re-install the cam gear and remove the oil drive pin and see if it goes down. thatll limit your options.

AlkyIROC

The bottom of the cam gear goes over the oil pump drive. Without the cam gear, there will be no clearance issues unless there's some serious misalignment problems between the intake and the block.

You can't remove the oil pump shaft. It doesn't come out the top. You need to remove the oil pump and take it out the bottom.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

A BBC drive rod is about 1/2" longer then a SBC rod.

RBob.

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

sorry guys for getting back to this so late...

I got it in!....it was almost a combo of all the above....well except for having the wrong parts. It was just a very tight fit and ther was a slight burr that I had to get rid of....and I did a search...and also found that I could take some really fine sand paper and smooth out the dizzy shaft...

all in all it was a nightmare but it is in..sometime I feel so stupid but oh well!

thanks for all the ideas....I know I can always count on you guys to come up with solutions.

we'll get this motor together in no time..


heres where Im at

brutalform

I would like to mention that, if you are running a Comp Cam, that the MSD gears and Comp Cams gears are not a match made in heaven. I do not know if you are using a Comp Cam, but I was on the phone with Comp tech, and he strongly recommended changing the gear on my MSD distributor. They encountered many problems with MSD gears.

Also, to save alot of time, nextime you have to reinstall the distributor, once the gears do engage, just hold the housing, and have a friend "bump" the engine over, and it will plop right in. No need to try to align everything by hand.

1986Z28OWNER

iTrader: (1)

possibly

you got a stock dizzy around to compare it?

AlkyIROC

I had to change my MSD distributor gear. I needed to put on a bronze gear required for a billet cam.