NiteStar

I've had this heat soak issue for a while now. I had replaced the starter/solenoid, but it still does the same thing. I didn't replace it myself, so there is the concern I got hosed possibly and the refurbished solenoid is not up to standards.

What's the easiest way to check if the solenoid is bad when it's not starting? I'm going to let it sit and run until it heats up and then turn it off and wait a few minutes. When it won't start (ie: won't even try to turn over) I want to test the wires at the solenoid terminal and see if it's getting the proper juice. Is it Possible to try and bypass the solenoid and see if I can get it to start?

If it is the wires and their old, wouldn't even some juice cause it to at least "try" and turn the starter? Or could it be a ground that's expanding when it gets to hot?

I'd rather not mess with the wires withough testing the solenoid it's self somehow but I'm sure of the best way to do that. With the temps starting to reach the 90's outside, any help is appreciated guys.

Thanks

fleetmgr

When you turn the key, do you hear a click or nothing at all? If you hear a click, it's not the solenoid. Have you tried a remote starter button?

NiteStar

When it does it, I get nothing at all. If it helps narrow it down some, I know that when it's hot and I turn it off and then attempt to start it up, it may start up 1,2 or more times, but I can usually get it to do it after a certain amount of starts. Not sure if it's me making the wires heat up (is that possible?) or heating up the solenoid. I just have no idea quite honestly.

I've thought about a remote solenoid, but would rather not have to worry about re-wiring if I don't have to.

camaronewbie

Get a set of extra hands - have someone hold the key in the START position while you check voltage on the purple wire at the starter (it's the one that connects by itself) - that purple wire should be getting 12v+ when key is in start position. If you have the key in the RUN position, and put 12v+ to the starter on that purple wire, it will start EVERYTIME if the solenoid is good. You can run the starter all day (until the battery goes dead) with the key OFF by running 12v+ to that purple wire at the starter - that will ease your mind that the starter and solenoid are good.

Look into the Starter Enable Relay located driver side kick panel, usually under the black goo that covers the hole right by the hood release. They are about $8 at NAPA.

Also check the Neutral Safety Switch (NSS) - it's in the center console on your auto. They are about $30 at NAPA. Make sure the plastic tab out of the NSS is not slipping out of the slot on the shifter - I had to bend the metal bracket it's on some to make sure, because mine was slipping out as well sometimes.

Here's the sequence:

You turn key to start - 12v+ runs through yellow wire from ignition switch to starter enable relay, if the VATS module has been satisfied, the relay will have a ground, and the 12v+ from the yellow closes the relay - which sends 12v+ to the NSS on a large green wire. If the NSS is in Park, then the 12v+ is routed out on a large purple wire through the C100 connector (firewall plug) to the starter.

I think it takes way more heat to "soak" a starter these days than anyone thinks. I had issues with mine, and the starter solenoid was actually touching the flange on my headers - was like this for 3 years! But the problem wasn't heat soak, it was a bad starter enable relay - for 3 years it would start sometimes, and not others. THe relay was bad, but not gone, and so it would start on occasion and not start on occasion.

Let us know what you find.

NiteStar

Thanks Camaronewbie for the reply. I changed the NSS a few months ago trying to fix this problem, so I know it's not that. I searched napa and autozone onlince for a "starter enable relay" and variations of that and can't find one. I can grab my chiltons and look for it when I get home.

I'd love for it to be the simple $8 part, but the fact it only does it when the engine gets hot and starts when it cools down, makes me think I won't be so lucky. But I will change it before doing anything major.

If the purple wire is getting 12v+ with the key in the start position and it's not trying to start, could it be a ground or the starter relay? Or would that rule that out and it's my solenoid?


EDIT: I did some searching and I found out that Napa and others call it a Theft Deterrent Relay. Napa has one in stock at their warehouse downtown, so I'm going to pick that up and put it in today. I'd love for it to be that simple. Thanks again Camaronewbie and I'll let you know how it works out.

camaronewbie

If the purple wire is getting 12v+ at the solenoid, then it may well be your starter or solenoid. If the starter enable relay is bad, or the NSS bad, the purple wire won't get the 12v+ it needs.

I have trouble with mine sometimes, I think it's my NSS popping out of the slot on the shifter - I replaced everything, and I still (although rarely now) have issues. Think on mine I'm going to remove that NSS, and do something to extend that plastic tab or something to keep it from poping out of the shifter slot.

But if you get a 10 guage chunk of wire, hold it on that starter connector where the purple wire connects, and bump the + batt term with the other end, and the starter runs every time, then it's not your starter (or solenoid). This is how I start my car when it does rarely act up - I just always carry a 3ft chunk of 10guage wire with me

I can see them calling it a Theft Deterrent Relay - Not sure if the earlier cars without VATS had them - the VATS gets the resistance it's looking for, and provides the ground for the relay - pre-VATS cars I guess didn't need a relay since there was no need to disable the start function as long as the key turned the lock cylinder.

That's one easy thing to remember about computer controlled or module-controlled stuff - at least on these cars - anything that's "controlled" is controlled on the grounded end - in other words the "controller" always enables and disables a ground somewhere - like VATS, TCC lockup, fan switch, etc.

Its aggravating - hope you get it right. Post up what ended up working for you, and I'll keep an eye out to see. BTW - where u located?

NiteStar

I replaced the starter enable relay and it still acted up.

I just got done under the car testing the connections and this is what I have. I get a hot connection at 12.8v constant. With the car off, the purple wire read 0.0. When I turn the key, the purple wire read about 8v and would not turn the starter. With it not wanting to start I connected the gauge wire and it would start up.

I don't know what this means. Solenoid bad? Is the purple wire degredated and when hot, doesn't get enough volts? The fact it's getting at least 8v when acting up means the system itself (ie: Vats, NSS, Starter relay).

Btw I live in Charlotte NC. Going to be in the 90's this weekend so it'll get hot quick when driving the car and um sure I'll have problems a lot.

camaronewbie

Well, keep that chunk of wire handy - at least you can always pop the hood and start it directly off the battery (like I have to on occasion). Not a VATS issue since you are getting any voltage on the purple wire - but 8 isn't enough to crank the starter I don't think. Might want to check the NSS, make sure the tab is in the shifter slot, make sure it's adjusted so that in PARK the purple wire out of it is getting 12v (with the key held at START), and make sure the green wire going into it gets 12v (with the key held at START).

NiteStar

Thanks for helping me narrow it down. I'm thinking it probably is the solenoid for the simple fact 8v gets through to the purple, which isn't enough to work. Maybe when it's hot that's what's going on. I tested it to see what it read when it was cooled down and able to start on it's own and it read almost 13v.

I'm not wrong in that assumption I hope. I'm guessing the power comes through the solenoid to the purple wire? Or is the 8v reading I'm getting actually coming from the other way?


EDIT: I did some research and found out that the voltage does indeed come from the direction of the NSS. I see 3 things that could be the culprit (besides the a wire itself). That would be the NSS (been replaced), the Starter enable relay (replaced) and the Ignition switch. I haven't replaced the ignition switch so I'm going to have to assume that is my problem. I'm going to pull the under dash off and get to that switch and check the voltage leaving Ignition switch to check for 12v when it's acting up and not starting. I'll let you know what I find out camaronewbie.

camaronewbie

Ignition switch just sends low amp 12v to the relay to activate it, then the relay sends the higher amperage 12v to the NSS - if your getting 12v on the green wire that runs to the NSS every time the key is turned, then the ignition switch is doing it's part (I would think).

NiteStar

That will be what I check first. I'll take a look at the wire going to the NSS from rye starter relay and also check the output connector for the purple wire going from the NSS to the solenoid.

Is the fact the car started when I touched the battery to the purple wire terminal on the solenoid a reason to be sure it's a problem on that side. Like the starter relay, NSS or ignition switch or maybe the wires? I can rule out battery cables and the such?

camaronewbie

Yeah, you should be able to safely rule out battery cables, the starter, and the solenoid if it easily cranks when you supply 12v+ to the connector where the purple wire connects at the starter.

And I wouldn't think you'd get any voltage at the purple wire if it was VATS, so you should be able to rule that out.

I'd check for 12v coming out of NSS when in PARK and key turned first. If it's not 12, then I'd check Green wire going into the NSS for 12v when key turned. If green wire isn't getting 12v, then it's got to be the relay (which you've replaced, but maybe got a new bad one, or could be the connector for the relay has gone bad - look at it for signs of shorting ie burnt marks).

If you get 12v on purple wire in car, but not under hood - maybe there's a bad connection at the firewall connector on driver side, or maybe the wire has been damaged where it runs through the wire cover from the firewall to the starter - this path is behind the engine and over the top of the tranny bellhousing PITA to get to).

This is all logic mind you - this doesn't account for the "gremlin factor". No matter what any diagram says, there's always the "gremlin factor". I seem to have that with mine. I assumed my starter was bad as well, and I replaced it with a mini starter - that was $90 wasted. But I did get a really cool mini starter that just sounds sweet - so not a total waste - just $90 that could have been better spent (like air bags since I bottom out on occasion).

The_Phoenix

iTrader: (3)

Hows it going? I recently replaced my previous mini starter due to a bad connection and intermittent start issue (no starter movement either) with a new original hitachi mini starter. Just last week, I experienced this same problem again while at pepboys. It was a hot day and to tell you the truth, my primary fan is only working at the moment since my fan temp switch is crap; I'll be getting a replacement soon. It cooled for about 25-30 min. and luckily there were light winds so that should of helped it cool down faster. Once it did, I started it and it fired right up. I haven't had this problem since and I'm pretty sure heat has something to do with it. I'll be installing a heatshield as well to maintain the starter atleast a bit cooler. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I would not want this to happen again at a possible wrong time. My car is an '89 GTA with 3?? TPI.

Thanks in advance,

Phoenix

NiteStar

Hi Phoenix. I haven't figured out my problem must yet quite honeslty. Mine seems to be a wire connection problem. When I checked the NSS it was only getting 8-9 volts when it wouldn't start. I think that's enough to start but apparently not when my solenoid is hot. Crazy thing is, I went to check the Ignitions Switch to see if both red wires were getting a constant 12v when hot and not starting and to see what voltage it was putting out, but guess what, I couldn't seem to get it to not start. It was starting everytime. Even after letting it run in 90 degree heat for over 20-30 minutes and sitting for 5-20, it started everytime. I'm waiting for it to act up again and leaving kickpanel and under dash off as well. In the end, mine may be a loose connection.

If yours gets worse and your able to get under it when it's not starting, try the trick CamaroNewbie told me to do and run a wire directly from the battery to the S terminal (purple wire) on your solenoid. If it starts, then you can probably rule out the Solenoid/starter.

I do wonder though that if I had a better Solenoid, if the heat wouldn't effect it as much and the 8-9 volts would be enough to start it.

I'll be checking back when I find out for sure and let yinz know.

camaronewbie

It's so nice to see I'm not the only one fighting a starting gremlin!

I was only getting 8-9 volts on my NSS as well. I replaced my starter enable relay, which seemed to solve that issue, and everything worked fine, for a week. Now I'm back to using my remote starter (ie 10 guage wire from battery to starter) - very aggravating since I've replaced the relay, the NSS, and the starter.

My solenoid/starter clicks when I turn the key, so the circuit is complete. I'll have to check my voltage again today to see if I'm back to only 8-9 volts at the NSS again.

But, I've kinda given up on the whole deal - tired of fighting the fight. So I'm going to just install a push button start switch. Will still require the key in the on position to start, so VATS will still be functional, but will save me popping the hood everytime I stop.

Mine is a 1992 - anyone thinking about a push button start might be interested in this: While under the driver dash, I found a factory connector that has the large guage dark green and large guage purple wire in it. I'm thinking this was a factory connection for a remote starter switch that techs could use when working on these cars. With the key on, connecting these two starts the car - so I'm going to utilize this for the push button starter switch. Will make for a clean install with no firewall drilling, and a simple short run of wire under the dash.

JakeJr

For what it's worth:

When I had a no crank condition, I used a long handle screw driver and jumped terminals 'S' and 12V at the starter. If the engine then cranked, I replaced the solenoid. I'd also install a solenoid heat shield bought from AutoZone for less than $10.

When I had intermittent no crank conditions and conditions when I had intermittent grinding sounds during cranking, I replaced both the starter and solenoid.

Some guys re-build their starters; I never got off into that.

Jake

Gumby

Grab the wires that hook to the SS and pull n wiggle them, if you see the end cap of the SS move, thats your problem.

It should not move at all.

If it does wiggle or rock around, it will get worse with heat and cause a flaky connection.

johnrstuch

I had a similar problem on my 89 GTA, I thought it was a bad V.A.T.S. module,
but after i traced it out ,it was a bad neutral safety switch.

89 trans am GTA
350 TPI

The_Phoenix

iTrader: (3)

I realize that heatsoak is a common issue on our cars but there are a few cases such as mine and nitstar's, were the starter doesn't even move (almost like its totally fried). Luckily in my situation, my engine will start after a few cranks so thats good. It could be the starter itself but doubt it since its pretty much still new and has been cranking like a champ lately. I do live in hellizona after all and I do believe heat is what caused it to pass out on me that day. If its not that, I would think there is a bad connection somewhere in my harness; my FPOPS was bypassed by a "technician" at the shop my engine was rebuilt at and that could be a possible culprit. I'll be purchasing a harness in excellent condition off of a member here and see if that changes anything. My stock starter acted up once while waiting in line at a bank drive thru and wouldn't turn on afterwards. The guy behind me saw what was going on and helped out by jumping the starter with a screw driver he had. Pretty useful little trick if you ask me. Are you running a stock or mini start Nitestar? The starter I replaced recently was actually a mini-style made by mean green. Highly recommend it as it spins the motor really fast but is a little pricey for about $300 and is actually built to withstand heat. I still have it and actually still works but intermittently as it has a bad SS connection like Gumby stated. The terminal itself is loose enough to wiggle around and pull out of the solenoid partially but is still attached internally. I didn't want to deal with so I just put in a new one.

Phoenix

NiteStar

Gumby, I assume that "SS" means Starter/Solenoid?

Seems my "gremlin" has come back again after a week hiatus. Sucks that I have to wait until later this week to be able to check the wires for proper voltage.

I got in it today after it was sitting for about 30 minutes. Put the key in and turned and got nothing. Then immediatly tried again and it started right up. I must say, that's the first time it has ever started doing multiple tries. Usually it's just a sit and wait situation when it doesn't start. when I got to where I was going, I turned it off and re-started it about 5X and got it to do it's thing and not start. I have no idea what that means for what the problem is, but I know it's very frustrating. lol

ltblue89rs

any luck with your car? im having the exact same problem

Daddyzz_NA_89RS

I have been struggling with this issue for a long time as well and this thread has been great in giving me an idea of how the system is laid out.

I checked my voltage at the starter (purple wire) and found I too am getting reading of 7 to 8 volts. I then disconnected the clutch switch and checked the voltage at the green wire. I'm gettin 12.48 volts at that point no problem. So clearly... all the components are working (VATS, starter enable, etc). I connected my switch back up and testing the voltage at the purple wire again. 7 to 8 volts. Tried it one more time... again... 12v on the green... but 7 to 8 on the purple when I connect the switch back up. I was ready to conclude that the clutch switch was bad and somehow robbing 4 to 5 volts. Then I decided to try removing the purple wire from the harness on the clutch switch and test it there. 12.48. Disconnected the switch and connect my meter to the green wire and the purple wire (the one that goes through the firewall). I am getting ground on the purple wire! Once I disconnected the purple wire from the starter there's nothing on the purple. Tested the purple wire. Now getting 12v. The ground is coming from the terminal positive terminal on the starter. Am I mistaken in assuming this should not be?

I took the starter off so I could bench test it. Still getting a ground on the positive terminal. I let it sit for a while and came back to test it again. No more ground. I hit the switch and the starter engaged as it should. Worked 4 times then stopped. Tested the purple wire terminal again and there was that ground.

I wonder if those of you getting the same low volt reading would find that it goes up to 12 when you disconnect the purple wire from the starter?

I'm not very knowledgable when it comes to auto electrical so I'm hoping we have electrical guru's on here that can make heads or tails of this, but in the computer world we deal with something called latency. In one sense of the word.. it refers to power stored in the device even after it's unplugged. So when you need to reset a device you leave it unplugged for a period to let the latent power dissapate. Could it be that what we're thinking is heat soak... is actually a negative charge on the positive terminal (assuming this isn't jsut happening to me) that takes some time to fade off? Would heat effect how long it takes for that to happen?

And just out of curiousity (again, a limited understanding of electricity)... if there's positive and negative on the same wire.. shouldn't it have burned up, caught fire, sparks flying, etc?

NiteStar

I've never tested it without the purple wire connected, Daddyzz. If my problem persists, I'll check it and let you know if mine does the same thing.

With that being said.. I replaced my starter AGAIN today. I had replaced the started a month after my problems first started last novemer. yep, been living with this problem for almost 1 year.

Now as soon as I put this "new" starter in, the last one was a "reman", I got to where I was going and when I went to start it, All I got was a "click". I thought, "This is different". Before I'd never get anything from the starter/solenoid when key was turned.

I tried it about 10X and everytime only got a click. Decided to get a hammer and VERY LIGHTLY tapped the starter a few times (yes that old trick,lol) and then went and turned the key and it started right up. I know this wasn't what my problem was initially, but wanted to show that even a NEW starter can have problems out of the box. I will be replacing it tomorrow, as NAPA is closed on sundays.

With all that being said, I went driving after tapping the starter. We had to get school clothes for the kids, since it was the last day for tax free weekend. I didn't trust shutting the car off, so I let them all go in and I went driving around for a hour. It's 91 degrees here today. When I picked them back up, we grabbed a bite to eat and the car got up to about 230 degrees. Yes, that hot. lol. I thought for sure the car wouldn't want to start up when I got home. I waited 5 minutes after shutting it off to give it time to "do it's thing". Funny thing is IT STARTED RIGHT UP!! I waited another 5 and again, success. Then another 10 and fired right up again.

I am now PRAYING that this has all been a case of my original starter and EVEN the reman I put in about 8 months ago was also bad and suseptable to heat soak out of the box. Because after 9 months of this problem, I would have bet $100 that it wouldn't start up after getting that hot and driving for a hour before that.

I will be replacing the NEW started again tomorrow since I'm told that if you have to hit a starter for it to work, it doesn't matter if it keeps starting after that, IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN and eventually that trick won't work and you'll be stranded.

I will give it a few days and give word as I should know 100% for sure by then as to the "heat soak" issue.

Daddyzz, I wonder if when the starter/solenoid is "heat soaked" if that in fact is what's causing the purple wire to read 7-8 volts as it's causing the resistance in the line and the voltage drop. I find it interesting that you get 12 volts when it's acting up and the purple wire disconnected from the solenoid. Just a thought.

camaronewbie

NiteStar:

I still think your issue lies elsewhere - I mean if your car got that hot, and continued to start - the hammer tap was coincidence.

For 3 years I thought I had a heat soak issue since my headers actually touched my starter solenoid, and here all along it wasn't a starter issue at all, but a starter circuit issue. Turns out my starter enable relay just doesn't want to do it's thing, for whatever reason. I've replaced it 3 times now, the old units all still work fine (click when energized), but not well enough to give me a start every time I turn the key.

I gave up, and straight wired where the relay was. Since I swapped to carb, the VATS was really only cutting out the starter circuit, which is an easy bypass if anyone really wanted to steal my ride. But I'm installing a hidden kill switch this week to take car of theft.

I'm not saying to not return the NAPA starter, but don't be surprised if yet another starter leaves you with "the click" again.

BTW, you mentioned:

Are you in NC? If so, what town?

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Did you ever get this going, love to see some pic's, also where abouts under the driver dash did you find this plug?

Like the rest of you guys here I pretty much have the same problem. This thread is loaded with lot of good info, now I have a idea what to look for

NiteStar

Oh don't get me wrong, it drives at about 160-180 degrees. When it gets over 90 degrees outside, If I let the car sit with the a/c on, it can get up to the 230 I spoke of.

I know it's heat related problem, whether starter or wire, because when It gets over 180 for a consitent amount of time and I shut it off and either I let it sit a few minutes or sometimes right away, it will not start back up anywhere from 30minutes to an hour. I've notice that it needs to cool down to about 180 to start usually when it's doing it's thing. With it being summer, it gets hot pretty quick on 95 degree days.

That's why I was VERY surprised when it started up with the new starter after it got so hot from sitting for so long today. Should not have quite honestly. The tapping of the starter is just a side problem with this starter I put on today and not one I've had during my 9 month ordeal. It's always been nothing or start, but not anything close to a "click" or starter tap to start. I just pray I am lucky and the heatsoak starter for the original and even the reman that replaced it, was the problem and fixed with this totally new one.

Oh I'm in Charlotte. I take it you're from NC as well?

Edit: I see your from Cary, NC. Where abouts is Cary located?

Gumby

Yes, my one and only problem with heat soak was just that. The end cap would wiggle, and the bolts for it would not tighten anymore. Them things get rebuilt 1000 of times and are just bench tested, so it will work when cold. And long as it passes that and the bolts tighten, they don't check thread depth.

And I bet 100s of folks ended up with the one I had by now, it gets sent back, tested and works cold, and put back into the system.

NiteStar

I don't know for sure, but It's possible that the connector you're referring to is for the fog/driving lights. I added driving lights to my 92 formula about 9 years ago and I remember that I didn't have to do any extra relay because the car already had one under the dash ready to go out of the factory and it used a purple wire. It's been so long, I can't remember if there was a green wire connected or not.

86_irocz-28

while on the subject of starters and solinoids i have been having problems with batterys dying i looked around nd seen the bolts connecting the starter and solinoid could this be the cause of the battery dying

NiteStar

I'm not sure. Have you checked to see if your battery is showing a drain after sitting over night? Still the same alternator since the first dead battery?

86_irocz-28

ya i had got a new battery ran fine nxt morning dead the alt i took to get tested well it rolled round in the trunk nd froze up so bought a new one put it on battery still died....... also have underbody lights along with strobe lights

NiteStar

Well after 9 months, the problem is solved. Now what I'm about to say seems like "duh" is the appropriate response, but you must remember, I had paid $60 for a reman Starter back in December and paid $40 to have someone put it on (I was busy at the time). Maybe that was my mistake and should have put it on myself I guess. Because after all the money and time spent trying to figure out what my problem was after the new starter didn't do a thing is very upsetting now that I look back on it.

I decided last weekend to go ahead and by a "new" starter from NAPA and replace the reman I had the mechanic put on for me the first time. At this point I felt that maybe it being new would make a difference. So after another $90, it sure enough fixed my problem. I don't know if it was the solenoid itself or the connections at the solenoid, but it all makes me wonder if the mechanic ever really replaced my starter/solenoid the first time.

And as a bonus, my remote start feature now works as well. It stopped working about 5 years ago and for about year or two after that, it would only work during the cold winter mornings. But it had been 3 years since it was last able to start up the car at any temp. So of course I didn't think anything of it when my "hot no-start" problem started last november. I'm guessing that the remote start's resistance reading used when knowing to stop trying to start the car after it starts up must have been too high with the old starter/solenoid or again, maybe the connections at the solenoid.

Who knows, maybe i did get another bad solenoid when the mechanic put it on 9 months ago, so I can't question him with 100% certainty as whether he screwed me intentionally. I wonder if it was the connections at the solenoid. I'm sure he put the starter on the same way I did so I'm a little less inclined to think it's the connections and more inclined to think it was the solenoid.

I'm just glad that I'm finally over this problem and no longer have to keep the car running for fear of getting stuck for up to an hour or more somewhere.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

im having this issue. it has only started happening recently.. but i have had the car 11 years now. i havent had a chance to dive under the car yet and examine the wiring and check anything with a volt meter yet, but i will be getting to it in a week or so. ..

...basically in the starter area: the starter has been the same napa one for the past 8 years. i've put on some dyno-don's coated headers. yanked the heat and a/c system out. both fans run al the time the car is on. etc. sometimes the temp creeps up when im in traffic on a hot day..which seems to be the only days i decide to take the car out.

if i turn off the car to get fuel or for any reason after driving, the starter will not activate. no click, no noise, nothing cranking etc.. but i do have power (lights, radio, etc).. (and this is turning the car off anywhere between 160 deg and 220 deg). i initially thought it was the neutral safety switch, but without testing it, i ruled it out(kinda) since ive got a b&m megashifter and constantly am reajdusting the gear indicator and checking those wires. ..

the ONLY way ive got the car to start is by either waiting half an hour for the wind to cool the motor/starter, or by spraying water (i know, not hte best idea, but it takes the heat away, and im not blasting it on the terminals) at the starter soleniod. after it cools (im sassuming it does), it starts right up. , but i dont dare turn it off again until im in a safe spot where the car wil be parked and has ample time to cool down prior to me having to drive elsewhere. what a freakin hassel.

anyway, i am planning on getting a themrotech starter heat-shield wrap to put around the starter, maybe a metal heat shield also . if this fixes the problem, i will be sure to update this post.

also, i think something in that area has been setting off my knock sensor very often. i just ordered a new knock sensor wire from tpiparts.net and i think im going to order a new knock sensor too. ill be driving along, and not even launching and the ses light will go off with a code for the knock sensor (43), then retard the timing up to 20 deg or whatever it does, and ill have to limp the car to a safe spot. sucks. WHEN i get the car restarted.. it will turn the ses light off and the car will run normal.

anyone with any helpful advice? . also i dont have VATS, i replaced the ignition module back in march, and do not have a mini-starter or anything fancy (stock setup). i will be checking the starter terminal/posts to see if they are loose, check all voltage and wiring too. and NSS again as well. but i think its gotta be some kinda issue with the heat soak from the exhaust.. since after everything cools.. it cranks and runs fine .

Rob's 92 gta

I was having the same problem not starting hot. I found talking with some friends with the problem it was the starter. I put a reman on it and still the same problem. They told me to try just to see what would happen if when it wouldn't start, to cool the starter with a bottle of water to see if it would start and it started right up.I figured that if I only cooled the starter and it started that would eliminate the wiring because I only cooled the starter not the rest of the cars wiring.They also told me that once it started to do that even if I used a heat shield It would still do it sometimes.What I did was buy a new starter (not a reman )and put a heat shield on it from the get go and know no more problem. It worked for me hope it help some of you guys.

NiteStar

Exactly Rob. All my money dumped into other stuff for almost a year was all because I just assume the reman I got was good from the get go. Never just assume that. Lol. And ALWAYS but a NEW starter. Increases your odds of not having the problem out if the box.

I also have wondered if maybe my connections at the starter were just dirty. Maybe one was not making a clean connection or not tightened down properly. All guess work really since all is good now.

It got up to 95 degrees here yesterday and with about an hour of driving and rush hour, car was running or around 220 for quite a bit. Stopped at the store and after 15-20 minutes, still started right up. No 1/2 second hesitation, just nothing but a clean start up.

What Rob said about cooling it down (if you can) after it's not starting with water and it starts right away would be a good way of knowing.

And my remote start is still working the charm. Something to think about is that with my car being 18 years old, I'm sure the wires aren't 100%, so it probably doesn't take a lot for even a renam to not be up to par out of the box and the starter/wires have to much resistance. So go with a new one or replace the wires. Easier just to get a brand new starter