spiffiestpengui

I know anything can be fast with mods...i've never lost to a honda and dont plan to, but today I raced the fastest honda ever. Faster than any car I've raced so far. I dont really know if it could fairly be called a race, because the whole time we only had 1 lane to race in. but he couldn't pull away, and I was stuck behind him the whole time. I dont know what work he had done, but from what I could see he had at least a 3 inch exhaust, and side vents, im guessing a cold air intake. I dont know what kind of honda because the body was so modded. but it was a 2 door 5 speed at least. What do you guys think? any experiences to help this?

danziger

Any car can be fast if you throw enough money at it. A stripped-out Civic with a decent turbo kit will scoot fairly well, but FWD and turbo lag will make it difficult to get off the line.

spiffiestpengui

yeah thats what i thought too....he wasnt very fast off the line at all, and top end wasnt great either. i have been having top end problems lately and he was only slightly able to pull away but not for long at all. but still, he did pretty good i thought. I wish I knew what mods he had. I'm sure i will see him again, since I just saw him yesterday at the gas station too lol

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

seen civic hatches run 10's. As with most cars though, for every really fast one, there are a thousand nut-swingers with slow cars who talk a lot of ****.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I run high 9's in the 1/4 and there are some hondas/imports around me (pittsburgh)that I would not want to play with..... granted their streetability is in question since some run race gas, some run e85 but need slicks to have a chance to hook up on the street, but they trap 145+ and I've only gone 141. Local shop's hatch went 9.94 at 150 to my 9.86 at 141. On the street he'd get me if he hooks.

They are pocket rockets. They weight like 1500 lbs and have 600+ whp. There is a SRT4 running around that has gone 9.90's as well at over 150 mph. Still has AC and drives to the track. Race gas too but still a 4 banger.

Yes hondas can be fast. CFT (central florida turbo) has a S2000 that puts down 880whp and its been on the street. Got to be a race gas car but still thats impressive for 4 cylinders.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

OP drives a 305...there are SEVERAL hondas even stock that would eat his car.

I did a track rental with a couple low 9 second hondas. Don't see many faster then 10-11 seconds at any given test n tune but they are out there. Imports vs Domestics at MIR you will see some fast hondas. Most are not reliable though. Snap axle shafts left and right, can't catch 2nd gear, can't do a proper burnout to get heat in the tires and end up spinning half way down the track. Most of them are track only cars, hardly could run on the street. But that is not to say there are some that are built up very nice.

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

Depends on your location. In a city of over 100,000 and in California then yeah. Around here its rare to find one that could beat a stock chevy full size truck from the 80s thats only running on 7 good spark plugs.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Glad I wasn't "that guy" to first say that. Thanks for beating me to it.

Dennis79Formula

there are plenty of fast hondas out there but you can tell the ricers from the cars that are actually qwik as far as third gen vs hondas there are a few hondas that would take l98s like the type r cars they were very qwik ive seen them run high 14s bone stock but like i said your average ***** uses a no vtec no dohc and shoves on a fart pipe and a thousand stickers and calls it a race car

Americanmouse

iTrader: (7)

My biggest issue with RICERS is there attitude!
They have a goal to beat a real sports car, and will dump a load of money into mommys car to try and accomplish this. I have no respect them, even if its a 9 second go-cart. (which cost a boat load of money to achieve) There are plenty of real import sports cars out there they could mod/rebuild etc, and those people I can respect. But you rarely every see a real import sports car, but the ones you do see don't have those stupid stickers, or airplane wings bolted on to the trunk. Those who say that maybe that's all they they can afford. I say for the amount of money they end up dumping into moms grocery getter, they could have bought a used real sports car import or domestic for cheap. I bought my IROC 10 years ago for $1,100.00 it was bone stock, and over the years I built onto it. I bought my 94' Z-28 for $1,200.00 bone stock.
I have raced my share of RICERS over the years in both my IROC and the 94' Z-28 I use to have, and every one I spanked they try to race me again and again thinking they will do better next time. I only had one that I beat, and he was with his girlfriend who actually pulled up to the next light besides me gave me thumbs up. Then he started to ask questions about what I did to my Camaro, he was driving a older Toyota Supra stock turbo. That guy I give alot of respect for, and his Supra wasn't RICED out!

89IrocZ350TPI

Stock hondas are slow. They are not made for speed though. Can you make them fast? Of course. However everyone seems to think every honda is a ***** with a big wing and fart cannon.

yamaha6611

this is also in reply to the thread "any ricers on here dont lie"

im not a *****... cant stand body kits big wheels wings etc... i drive a 1990 honda crx si

4:10 gearing
fully built motor:
h beams
wiescos
bored/honed/balanced
micropolished crank
5angle/milled/decked, cams
16g mitsu evo turbo
its going to make around 330whp in the spring here...
which, believe it or not.. is (with perf. traction)



low 11s!

its not hard to make them quick at all, traction sucks so with street tires you redline thru 4th until about 60mph lol but with em its all fun and games...


ill get pics up soon

Americanmouse

iTrader: (7)

All your mods including the cost of the car, and don't lie what is your grand total? Also what is your estimate on how long before you break something and/or the cost which would be common on a build like yours? "Such as destroying your engine, drive train etc" Be honest!!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They are not necessarily unreliable at those power levels. IF you do the turbo kit yourself you can have as much money into it as a turbo V8 and run about the same times, just the V8 could go further on pump gas than 4 cylinders.

Americanmouse

iTrader: (7)

I'd like to know were you got your information!
I have personally known several people over the years who thought they could do better than a real sports car. In the end they ended up destroying their cars, costing them thousands of dollars.
One guy had a modified Honda V-tec with a hair dryer. Did high 11's low 12's . Seized the engine , and destroyed the drivetrain Within the first year. Total cost was over $20 grand. He showed me the bill of sales, the engine was custom built. He became educated and now owns a 68' firebird bigblock that does 9 & 10's and has been racing it over 3 years.
Other guy had a Mitsubishi gt modified with a hair dryer, and ran low 12's the first year til he destroyed it. Total cost he won't say except my brother knows he paid just over 8 grand before he dumped a crap load of money into it. Only to see it go up in smoke. He now owns a 70-71 Mustang that runs high 11's-12's.
Another guy I used to know at my old job had a Honda Civic, he claimed he spent including the car over $15.000. I actually watched him showing off, go up against a grunge match with another guy at my work who had a late 80's Mustang that ran at the track mid 10's. The Honda guy blew up the top end of his engine of the line. The last I heard which was about a year ago, the Honda guy hates imports, and now owns one of the new Challengers.
My son works at a Mazda dealer as one of the techs. He recently got involved with rebuilding a Mazda 3 turbo that costs new just under $30,000. So this kid dumped thousands of dollars, even lying to mommy that he needed this or that for his car.(don't know all the details on that) Why because the kid wanted to play with the big boys. He wanted to get the car into the 11's. Well he did, for a short time. Til he destroyed the engine; actually cracked the block, pan, crank, mains, all the internals could not be saved. My son saved a few parts as show and tell, and took pictures which I can post upon request. The kid then tried to claim it was a manufacture defect to try and get the warranty to replace the engine. Well the dealership new better, and refused to honor the warranty based on all the go fast parts this kid added on to the car. So dumb-*** mommy bought a new engine for the bonehead. My son said it cost her out of her pocket over $10,000.
Can it be done? Yea!!!
But how much will it cost, and how long will it last?

yamaha6611

ha i read that unti i saw the words $20 grand...


its my DD, probably the simplest thing you get to work on... you wanna check the spark plugs??? hah oh look, all of them are right on top, takes <2 minutes... simple stuff like that makes them great...

now the reason people hate is because for ever 1 legit honda, there are literally 10,000 ones that embarress us. motor build was simple, thing will handle waaay more than what the head will flow anyways so im not worried..


its these guys online on the honda forums that come up with stupid **** like "dont put a bigger throttle body on, it will bog down low.."

A: uhh no, your running 10mm more air thru it, same A/F ration thru the whole map, of course its going to run like ****... i have built 700+whp grand national motors that run a 60mm or so TB, its all in tuning.. heres some pics...

yamaha6611

last mustang i did lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I too have known some import guys and they dont seem to be having the problems your friends had. This kid put a mitsubishi 4g63t together in his basement with a 70mm turbo and the darn thing makes 690awhp on race gas on a mustang dyno. Been running well over 500awhp for a few years. No real problems and certainly didnt cost him all that much.

Some people get lucky I guess

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

1990 civic FTMFW!! Haha my daily is a 1990 Hatch DX in the beautiful baby blue....(uh, not). And in response to those of you saying hondas are slow, unreliable, all the misconceptions, no they are not.

Take my honda for example. It weighs roughly 2000 lbs. Swap in a B16A engine for about 2000$ which has 160 HP stock and still gets 28 mpg. The power to weight ratio would be 12.5. Now take an F body and do the math and you need 280 HP to equal the hondas 160. If you put a turbo on the B16 engine even at low boost and get 300 HP, you have a virtually unbeatable street car that will still get 25 or so mpg. All could be built for around 3500$ INCLUDING the car. (I paid 300$ for mine and it's in GREAT shape)

I give respect where respect is due, and I LOVE my trans am, but you can't mess with weight. Weight does more than horsepower. It's the hundreds of crap hondas that give the nice ones a bad name. We should know from all the stereotypes of long-haired (dare I say it?) third gen drivers out there. Same thing with hondas, and I do have freinds with hondas that I wouldn't even think about messing with.

yamaha6611

may i ask why you made fun of my car and then told all the greatness about yours?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I wasn't making fun of it at all!! FTMFW means "For The Mother F****** Win!" IE I like it. Sorry if I was misunderstood. I have a soft spot for the EK (I think?) body style.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Another example... another local shops turbo integra ran for several years at 450-500whp level. Ran high 10's and was street driven. The only thing it broke was stock axle shafts but thats expected.

Try run 500whp through an fbody 10 bolt rear or a stock T5 transmission..wont last for long either.

I agree with the above, you can build them somewhat fast and reliable for cheap if you know what your doing.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

If building up an import like that was so easy then you'd see more of them around...the fact is they're not that simple...obviously there are some super fast ones out there and they get my respect...but for every fast one out there there are 10 junk ones...and for every fast one out there it's a big chunk of $$$ invested.

To each their own, fast is fast but it's not that easy to make one run 11's.

yamaha6611

hondas are easy to build because, for some reason, theyre major systems hold up to some good #'s...

ex: fuel system, uncluding rail and lines (400+whp before needed upgrade)
axles (400+before needing constant change)
ignition system (400+ before needing upgrade)
my bone stock transmission is good to 500 to the wheels, lol i dont even want to look at the little rear end in my TA! its like "mustangs are so great and fast"

but, you cant drive them a month without blowing the transmissions to shreads... every car has its weak spots, some easier than others to fix...

buguy i know, took the same motor i have in my car(BONE STOCK), small turbo and made 280whp, heres a vid of him against a 100shot ls1 camaro

bad video but youll see camaro gets jump by about 1 and then he takes it from there lol http://www.streetfire.net/video/lurk...rt-2_39852.htm

same car
http://www.streetfire.net/video/Stoc...5lbs_47572.htm

remember thats a bone stock motor with a turbo kit on it


mine will make about 50 more whp...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

You speak about it like you don't really have facts to back up your statement. I'm not really trying to defend hondas....thats why I own a TA and am on this board....but honestly, they are probably one of the EASIEST cars to make quick that you can buy. The reason you don't see more is because 90% of honda owners lack the mechanical skill to make them quick. Any Joe Shmo can go into autozone and pick up an intake, muffler, and altezzas and bam, you have a *****. I have seen tons of altezza clad camaros as well and some with even a big spoiler on the back. Most guys that DO actually know what there doing don't go out and say, "hey, I'm gonna build a fast honda," because they would rather build cars like evos, subarus, F-bodies. Cars where you can use the power in a more efficient way.

Hondas CAN be fast, and they are relatively EASY to make fast. Do some price shopping, I'm sure you'll see where I'm coming from. I wish I could get an ebay turbo kit complete for my car for 500$!!!!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

I go by what I see on the street and at the track, not some circle jerk website(s).

I never said you couldn't, I never said it's impossible...there are plenty out there...but my statement was if they were so easy and cheap to make fast then you'd see A LOT more. Sure, you can buy that $500 turbo kit and hope the motor lasts or that the turbo kit isn't a complete POS...some people have had success...others have not...others have dumped $10K+ into some Civic's and can barely get into the 12's. Some people have blown up said Civic's after making some decent power. Just because a few guys have run big power on stock motors and have had them hold up doesn't mean every one follows suit.

Again, this is in the real world and real 1/4 mile tracks...not internet rumors. I'm not in any way talking trash on the fast ones...I think it's great but just because a few guys did X Y Z and went fast for little $ doesn't mean every one does and that it's super cheap to do and do RELIABLY. Anything can go fast once.

ls six

OK fly if it's so easy to make a 3rd gen fast for cheap... oh wait, it's not!

you NEED a new rear end (minimum $2000, more like $3500) You NEED a new trans, you NEED a new motor because at anything over 500 HP a factory block is ticking.

You have never built a quick car so why are you trashing others?

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Where am I trashing other cars? Holy ****....can't you read? I said I respect fast cars regardless of their make. Christ...reading comprehension is good mmmmkkkaaaaay

Where did I say it's easy/hard to make a 3rdgen fast? I never once brought up 3rdgens....again...reading comprehension.

Should I quote it a few more times so you can actually absorb it? Actually READ what I said and actually think about what I said before you accuse me of trashing someone's car...I did nothing of the sort. I never said Hon-duh's can't be fast...I never said they're all junk....I was merely pointing out that if it was THAT easy there would be a ton of them...again..READ. Stop making yourself look silly.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Agreed. We run against countless Honda's at the track, w/two out of ten of them running some incredible numbers for what they are, but w/the rest of them either filling the entire lane(s) with oil and coolant, or simply breaking into pieces from off of the line. But yeah, any car can be made fast, even Mazda's....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

Stop bashing other people's cars! I mean have you built a fast car?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Is this reverse sarcasm towards ls six, or are you being serious w/me? I didn't bash anyone, yet....

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

It's sarcasm

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I will venture to say there are more hondas on the road than fbodys so thats one reason you see soo many stockers that are uncle ben'd out, rather than truely quick ones.

Its easy to spend loads of money on them with high end motor swaps that dont get you anywhere. I know a kid that had near 8 grand in his GSR/ITR swap civic that still ran 15's (dyno'd 170whp n/a it should have been in the lower 14's with driver mod). he could have done a mild rebuild on the B16 that cam in the car, he could have done a simple turbo build and gotten better results.

Just like any car build, there are ways to do it and achieve good results for a good price, and there are ways to do it at expensive prices and achieve mediocre results.... Thats what seperates a good car guy from one who's not so good, but it depends on the build. If your looking at all motor car, prepare to spend money and the results wont be near as good as a boosted car..They never are. The super high end turbo power cars can be pretty pricey as well. Its like anything after mid lower 11's will require abit more money to do.

Atleast for hondas they have a BUNCH of true bolt on parts unlike our thirdgens. turbo kits galore.

itsMikey

love this pic xD ahahah
http://tg3031.k12.sd.us/rice-17803.jpg add a r at the end of rice to see it

spiffiestpengui

lol, nothing to do with the post(sorry guys) but I saw this and it made me think of a mazda 626 that someone almost convinced me to buy( i knew NOTHING about cars at the time). they said" oh don't worry it gets it bro, that thing is FAST!" I took it for a test drive. the only other car I'd ever driven at the time was a corolla. and to me it seemed a bit faster....i waited and got the z28 instead and damn am I glad lolol

86White_T/A305

I dont know about the rest of you guys but in my area there are alot more decently fast daily driven sleeper hondas here than you could imagine.If not you would see some 800+ vettes lurking around and the odd highly modded stang.

Alot of my close friends and racing buddies are very good at making hondas fast and its not as expensive as building a sbc even.I firned of mine just bought and swapped in a k20 and lsd 6spd for under 2500 with computer and harness.Then ontop of that it got full exhuast,intake and other simple bolt ons and spent just under 5 grand.his car would run my 355 easily once he gets into the power band.the only thing with doing a honda and having them fast for a street car is being worried about axles which is common.

Not to bash anyone but I think alot of guys that drive domestic cars judge a honda as all the same.Many dont know how to tell if its stock or been swapped..there is a big difference in tone that gives them away.And from my personal street racing experiences here usually the kids that drive a honda and its only got a sohc with intake and exhaust are the ones that wish they had a faster motor and drive twice as hard to feel that way.Ive built a few quick b16 a motors..h22s...Ive seen one nasty street k20/k24 hatch back that was eating many turbo cars around here in the 11s...beat a turbo vr6 scirocco badly off the line.The owner does race alot on circuits though.

Long story short..if you invest the time..effort..match things right with a good tune..you will be that much faster..doesnt always come down to money and having the best part...quality can get you there and last while being fast in light cars like that.i love my GM's..I respect the true honda guys that dont talk **** and respect our cars aswell for what we are torque monsters and drag them off the line.Anything can be fast..someone will be faster...whos the better loser?

yamaha6611

agreed... before i rebuilt the motor in my crx, me and my buddy used to race a lot...

mine smoked bad and burned a lot of oil, bone stock motor with a few simple things done... he had a 94 mustang gt auto 5.0

i would beat him thru 3rd, by about a car length and then he would grab a car length on me in the last feet of the 1/4... always a good race though if he spun bad off the line it would be even closer

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

i wish i could afford another car, i would get a CRX and make it fast, my buddy(he use to be on here with a 90 RS and a 91 formula) has a 5.0 fox and a CRX now, the CRX is slow as it sits, but its fun as hell to drive and the 2010 V6 stangs only beat it by a car length, ive always liked the look of the CRX because its different but never bought one because i was acting like a child and thought every last honda i saw was the R word lol

ls six

You are bashing other cars and whats more your logic is out of step, you are obviously ignorant of what the wider world is up to.

You come onto a FORUM saying you only believe what you see, so your entire world view is based on your little corner of the world and forums have nothing to offer you as far as relevant information. Ofcourse you say this on a FORUM and expect it to carry weight?

What exactly are you doing here if you just go by what you see?

If I went by what I saw the in my own little world 3rd gens would be beat down ****** mobiles! I have seen 1 just 1 decent 3rd gen at the track and it was still just mid pack at best, if I were you then this would mean that all 3rd gens were junk and that all the sweet builds I see on this forum are worthless.

Am I comprehending you well enough now?

Just because your friends couldnt keep a car together dosnt mean there are no more skilled folks around, thats WHY we have forums like this in the first place.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The difference between the RX7 that I posted, and the 626 that you are referring to, is that the RX7 above is powered by a T-76 LC2 (Buick Grand National engine), and is a mid 9 second car trapping over 140-mph, and it has way more left in it. It was my way of saying that it takes a GM motor to make an RX7 fast lol. My buddy owns the RX7 above, and here is an older video of it making a lower than normal boost pass just before he purchased it last year....

http://www.youtube.com/v/kXEfTNRFaQo

sethteef

In my personal opinion imports do not build as easy for the most part compared to a domestic.
1. There is no substitution for displacement. Anything that can be done to the ***** motor can be done the domestic motor which already puts out way more hp.
2. You really need to start with a v-spec motor or the equivalance in the brand to have a good starting point for a good strong motor. I also feel that a honda and such a need a turbo to be even to a very very mildly build motor. Most of the engines in domestics like the 5.0's, 5.7's, and later the 6.0 in the gto are all engines that made a good amount of hp already. Also these motors can be built up to go fast without a turbo. Not the case in a crx or others.
3. Drivetrain. Are the fastest drag cars rwd or fwd?
Also the v-spec hondas, twin turbo supras, 3000gts/stealths cost a heck of a lot of money compared to a z28 or 5.0 mustang.

yamaha6611

this is just stupid... hear me out. first off, its VTEC, not vspec... 2 sets of cam lobes on the cam with different profiles for lower and higher rpm range...

if you want power with a honda, you know to stay away from vtec.
mines a DOHC cammed, doesnt make a **** for power until 5K, but when it does, it opens up and carries it until redline... a bone stock 350 (l98 say) will loose power after 3200rpms, which is why they tear out of the hole like an 11 sec car and still run 15's. on top of that, there are several 10 second N/A hondas out there, its really not hard to do.. k20 motor,11:1 compression, port the head, 3in exhaust and a set of ITBS (individual throttle bodies) in a crx, youll easily be in the mid-low 11's.

here you go, stock bottom end not sure what else is done to it but its n/a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koGfp...eature=related

yamaha6611

double post sorry

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

n/a builds generally are more money than the turbo builds for the same ET/power levels. N/a motors need more attention to head/intake and cam/valvetrain components than a basic turbo setup would.

I dont see as many fast n/a imports as turbo setups. I'd love to have one tho. I always wanted to do a H22 setup in a civic coupe with a nitrous kit as a daily driver but i daily drive a 99 LS1 trans am now so.... oh well maybe someday i'll do an import

sethteef

Honest mistake I have never seen a fast na import car and I doubt I will. Ever. And as for the stock 350 losing power after 3200 rpms, it will still beat a stock import of the same year. For that matter a 305 tpi will beat the same year car. I do believe that there can be fast imports but just not as fast as easy.

yamaha6611

oh yea im not doubting that, an si crx from 1990 like the one in the video is a 15.5 sec car from the factory, but, the TA's, mustangs and camaros of the same year are 14.8-15.2 car still, basically, not much room for the domestics to talk crap lol.


Orr89RocZ, i would agree with your n/a statement... in some ways...

although a good N/A build comes from a strong valvetrain, stock honda b series motors generally rev safely to 82-8500, without valvetrain modification... so, in a sense, a set of throttle bodies to get rid of the computer system ($1000) and a set of slicks with some nice tires is going to make that little car pull hard.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

most of the n/a builds i see rev closer to 10K rpm. You have to in order to make power with such small cubic inches

Its so nice that those cars are sooo light. 1500 lbs isnt uncommon for a gutted hatch. A decent 250-300whp motor in there can haul the mail. Thats a power to weight that betters a C6 Z06!!!

jj74sd455

who wants a honda anyway

yamaha6611

theyre great, my crx.. you just feel like the whole car is right there, like youve got a go-cart on the road, its tiny... and it takes corners so well it becomes scary

jj74sd455

id rather have a turbo sunbird