91ChevyRS

just wondering, I have never actually done it perse...


But I was just fooling around one day and I was driving my car in first gear on an isolated street, flooring it (but most certainly not redlining it)

I was wondering if I did this, I start out in 1st gear, then shift to 2nd, then 3rd and finally 4th....

If I did that would it hurt the overall lifespan of the tranny...I snapped my tranny mount in half playing around in 1st gear that day

Obviously I wont do this all the time, just when I am fooling around...


Also, I wanna start driving in D more often instead of OD...would this also decrease the tranny's life span....I mean the tranny has been kept up with maintenace and has been well taken care of...

Angelis83LT

well.. I take it is not one of the electronic shifted ones.. the standard 700r4 it really should not hurt it. I have driven my 700r4 like that for a long time, and It is still running strong in my one car. (the other ones was messed up when i got it.) So it shouldn't hurt it, but everyone has thier own say so about it

91ChevyRS

what do you mean by electronic shifted ones...

83_Camaro_83

i heard its ok as long as you dont downshift

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

My transmission is BUILT but, I shift mine all the time. Just make sure that your foot is ON the GAS if you decide to downshift it. If not you will shorten the life of the clutches/band due to low-line pressure.

It is not unusual for me to manually select 3rd or even 2nd when pulling some weight behind me, be it to climb a hill or for compression braking. If the hill is real steep, I will slow way down and select 1st. I do know that with the shifter in 3rd I can climb Rutan pulling 4,000+ lbs @ 60 MPH.

Angelis83LT

Electronic shift would be the 4L60E or the like. And yea.. do not downshift manually if you can avoid it..unless of course you are stopped lol.. only reason is is that it gives a bit of a shock to the tranny and the driveline when you dump it down like that.. I have done it once or twice without thinking and have actually chirped the tires in the rear when they quit turning as fast as I was going.

IROCThe5.7L

Shifting the tranny yourself is useless, unless you need to hold out a gear longer.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

^^^ yeah if you need to hold the gear longer than what the tranny shifts at.

OR when your launching it... sometimes when your coming off the line and have abit of spin, and you have to back off the throttle abit to keep traction. if your in drive, it will shift into second way early and your stuck there and have slow acceleration. keeping it in first helps eliminate that

wstdintllgnce

i manually shift my 700R4 quite often. Especially when i'm racing. you can hold out a gear longer, pulling through the entire powerband, and pulling more out of it. i've tried both ways at the strip, and actually got better launches and better times from manually shifting. and she's still running strong. and yeah, unless you really know what you're doing, do not downshift.

FerrMaro

You can take it for what it's worth, so here's my opinion. I've noticed that I can actually downshift in my car by blipping the throttle, effectively matching revs like heel-toe shifting in a manual car. This may sound odd, but if you have ever actually downshifted your 700r4 from 3rd to 2nd at around 45 mph you will find that the transmission will actually go into N until the car slows down enough to engage 2nd ( at least mine does this). However, if you blip the throttle within the small time frame you have until the tranny selects the gear, you can create a nice smooth, matched-rev downshift. It takes a little time to know how high and when to rev the engine to create that smooth downshift because of different rear gear ratios and such. This "technique" has helped me use engine brake to conserve my crappy stock brakes in everything from racing to slowing down for a stop light. I will say that there might be consequences in doing this, because I have had to replace a solenoid in the transmission only a year after I had this transmission put in my car. Sorry for the vague explanation, but if you know how to downshift well you shouldn't have a problem. As for shifting into higher gears manually, I don't see any problem in that. Hope that helps. ™

91ChevyRS

well I tried it out today, except I wussed out from starting in 1st...


I just basically started out in drive and I felt some massive torque in the higher RPMs, then at about 45mph I shifted into OD and the car went back to normal driving....


That was fun...

I dont downshift, I only did it in my crappy old car which had no torque even if I did downshift.

Obviously I care more about the Camaro

goose21

iTrader: (1)

I do the D to OD shuffle every day on the drive to and from work. This is with the 4L60E, but it's still the same base unit.
I always start in D and won't allow OD until 55 MPH or higher.

I usually try to shift from OD to D when entering town (35 MPH limit). I never thought much of it, but is it harmful to move the selector from OD to D while cruising? I always used to hit the gas just after I drop it into D, but recently I've been wondering if that's necessary?

wstdintllgnce

going from OD to D isn't gonna hurt anything. The only difference between the 2 is the passing gear. OD will get you beter mpg because it drops it down with an overdrive gear, which is why if you start and drive constantly in OD, you'll feel more than 4 gears. D carries more torque by dropping out the passing gear. I could be wrong on this, but that's pretty much how i always understood it. And after i lost overdrive in my old van, it made that much more sense. The van had electronic OD- you know, that little button on the dash that turns OD on and off. But please anyone, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd rather know the truth than go on a theory. lol

goose21

iTrader: (1)

No, there are not more than 4 gears on a 700R4. What you feel is the 1-2 shift, 2-3 shift, 3-4 shift, and torque convertor locking up. Putting the selector in D gives you 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with the convertor locking up when it's done shifting through the gears.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

You will get more torque to the wheels for the same throttle position in 3rd vs. 0D. Simple physics there. To increase driveshaft speed, you will lose torque!!! To get back the torque, shift into third, the trade-off=higher engine RPM. Works well when towing for me though. I don't see why you shouldn't run 3rd around town, especially for SPIRITED driving style. Manually selecting a gear other than OD also bumps the line pressure up, IIRC on the 700r4.

When mine is in 3rd, I get a distinct thump as the transmission downshifts when stopping (tells me the line pressure is higher), every 700r4 I have driven does this.

You can actually watch it on a pressure gauge, and see it on a tach, if you pay attention. Shift between 1st and 2nd and watch the tach as well as listen to the pump/regulator. You will hear it buzz as you hit 1st and see the tach just drop a touch. That is because of the increased line pressure.

wstdintllgnce

thanx for the correction. i thought about it after i logged off and realized it sounded funny. but i wasn't saying there are more than four gears. just in OD it almost feels like it. I was thinking about more of an aftermarket OD. where it goes something like this> 1-1od 1od-2 2-2od 2od-3 3-3od 30d-4 4-4od. or something like that. there's not much diff between say 1-1od, but it's kind of like a secondary gear for each gear. i can't think of exactly how to explain it right now.

and i was wrong on the passing gear thing. the passing gear is actually linked off of the throttle, so yeah. but still, the main question stands, and that answer is still right. going from OD to D isn't really gonna hurt anything, cos the rpms are still very close. not like going from D to 2. i've had to engine brake before when my booster went out, and you can definitely feel the pressure and hear the higher rpms as the car slows. If you do it in snow, you might even catch it and swing out the rear end of the car. and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I shift into first on some VERY steep down hill grades, but I am doing about 20 MPH and have my foot on the gas. Otherwise it would be way too easy to get 5,000+ lbs plus 4,000 out of control. The brakes would be toast halfway down the hill.

In short if I can do it all day long grossing 9,000 lbs, I don't see it hurting anything as long as your foot is ON the gas, and you don't over-rev the engine.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

I shift from D to OD every single day...like stated about i only shift into OD till about 50-55 mph. Why? Cause the car doesnt sound right at such low rpms i just dont like it. Giving it throttle in OD and if it doesnt downshift it doesnt act smooth. I just like D in general i dont like such low rpms all the time. I drop my car from drive to 2nd around 30-35 mph occasionally too. Never will i drop the tranny from 2 to 1 gear. OD to D i will quite frequently but not at high rpms. The car can feel smooth downshifting from D to 2 sometimes gotta find that right rpm. My car now has 124k miles and not a sign of slipping. Only ever changed the tranny mount within the first week of owning the car though

Then again most of this is because im just so *** damn bored with an automatic, the car is boring if i just leave it in OD all day. I just wish i had a manual

91ChevyRS

Your are so in my line...I only downshifted to D yesterday going up a mountain and it was at about 30mph...I can feel a difference between the two, and I feel like I gain more speed in D and then when I hit about 55mph I shift to OD and I am still climbing...

By the way, driving in D all the time sure gulps down that gas alot faster than you want it too

IROCThe5.7L

I don't know about OD to D. But I read somewhere downshifting an automatic transmission manually is not good for it.

goose21

iTrader: (1)

Did you even read the above posts? We just agreed that OD to D or vice versa is OK. OD to 1 would be bad, but not OD to D.

IROCThe5.7L

Oh silly me. If you say so, it must be ok. Lets just end this thread then.

b_the_j

I had a tranny with a real bad slipping o/d clutchpack, by tightnening the T.V. cable to maximum. the car had just enough line pressure to creep away from stop, by manaully controling 1-2-3 shifts and cruising in OD(floor it rpms rise to 5000, car goes no where) accelerating and going up hill, the tranny had to be held to the proper gear. or it would slip. 700r4s use different clutch apply circuits when manually selecting a gear, applying more pressure(I believe this also delays tcc apply in some models). I beat the crap out of this tranny probably 15k more miles.(It still worked this way when i took out) next on the chopping block a built tranny i picked up for 100$ with a stripped gov gear. replaced that and the filter. and it has been in for 10k hard hard miles. I manually shift 90% of my city driving. Downshifting hard braking no gas, hasn't hurt it yet, holding it to high rpm in 1st and shifting to 2nd and having to let off the gas before it shifts seems to be the worst thing or at least harshest thing I can do to it. Full throttle 1-2 shift will bark the tires real good. At 35-40 mph i've taken it 3-1 for a split second(right to 5000rpm), then back to 2 and off i go, Ive done this accidently at higher speeds for longer a couple of times (I'm pretty sure this is only hard on the engine).
I also put it to 4-2-3 at 70mph in the same manner, I'm sure this isn't good for the tranny, however it compares to kicking or riding the clutch in a manual to keep your revs up. Tempature and improper fluid level are the #1 causes of automatic transmission failures. control these and a 700r4 can take some serious mistreatment. Overfilling is worse than underfilling especially if you're manually shifting(b/c less passages are filled) overfilling causes the fluid to foam, destroying its hydraulic capabilities. This means NO PRESSURE!!! Under filling wont hurt until the pump starts cavitating.

91GTABird

I know from experiance that down****fting from anygear can tear things up. That why im still riding around with a broke azz overun sprag and clutch assembly from trying to downshift infront of a cop. I have ZERO deacceleration. If i leave it in first and run the rpms up to @3000 and let off of the gas, the rpms drop back to neutral.

Shift up not down

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

Well i still average about 16-17 mpg city and about 24-25 mpg highway. Its such a little amount of rpm it doesnt affect gas mileage below or above prolly 1-2mpg. Lowest ive got was prolly around 14-15mpg and thats beating the **** outta the car. Im taking it easy on her she dont like the cold months.

Oh and um OD to D going 80mph im pretty sure is bad and is like the same as doing D to 2 going 50...Ive done it a few times only racing a buddy(and no i didnt have to) it doesnt seem like a good idea to be dropping the gears down at such high rpms.

wstdintllgnce

well that's a given. the rpms are gonna be higher when you're in D. that's just common sense. but in general, everyday driving around 55- 65 mph, you're not gonna hurt it dropping it down. the Rs between D and OD aren't that far off. but at 80 mph you're running about what, say 3500 to 4000 rpms?....so when you drop it into D you'll be at about 4500- 5000....which is too close to redline at 80 mph for me to feel comfortable. yeah. 1000 rpm seem like too big a jump to anyone? never tried D at 80 so it was just an educated guess.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

huh? 80mph is not 3000rpms in over drive unless you got some serious gears like maybe 3.73's

80mph is more like 3500rpms in D with 3.27's and shade under 3000 with 2.77's. 115mph is about redline in D

with 3.27's OD is more like 2500rpms. 2.77's is like 2100rpms in OD at 80mph

so its not that bad of a drop. i have dropped from OD to drive all the time and havent really noticed any problems with it. as long as you give it some gas

wstdintllgnce

well that's funny, cos my RS runs about 2500 - 3000 at 70 in OD and it's got the stock 2.73. so in my opinion 3500-4000 sounds about right for 80. obviously closer to the 3500 end of things...but not everyone's cars run exactly the same, and most of the time i'm watching the road, not my tach, unless there's something wrong and i'm watching my rpms for inconsistencies. so as i said, it was an educated guess on the range.

Angelis83LT

I have the stock 3.08's in my camaro and in OD at 75 I am running about 2750 and the drop between OD and drive is about a 500 - 700rpm difference

IROCThe5.7L

That's what I was trying to say in my post. I understand downshifting manually is bad. But technically, manually going from OD to D is a downshift. That's why I said I didn't know if it was ok to go from OD to D. I have done it before too if someone pulled next to me and wanted to race.


No one has really givin a solid answer.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i think a small downshift aint a problem. od to drive is not bad since the rpm difference is not too much. and sometimes when your cruising in od, and hit a hill, you need to downshift to drive to get the power to climb

91ChevyRS

which is what I did a couple of days ago going up a mountain...I love my camaro

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I will maintain that you aren't going to hurt the transmission by manually shifting it. What do you think they gave us the option for. Keep your foot on the gas and all will be good. Foot on the gas=plenty of line pressure=no slipping clutches. Foot off the gas=no line pressure=burned/glazed clutches. That being said, I turn my BUILT 305 to 6,500 RPM. I have 3.73 gears and a P295/50/R17 tire. I will literally throw the shifter into 1st at speeds less than 40 MPH and into 2nd at speeds less than 85, AT WOT. There is no difference in damage between that and simply putting your foot into the throttle. Except you get an immediate downshift with a higher line pressure. That means the clutches will slip less.

The only reason I needed a transmission rebuild was from mileage and needle bearings being just plain worn out. (265,000 on the original 1983 700r4.)

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

if ur gonna punch it anyway at that second why even bother downshifting the car? Doesnt make sence unless you just like the thought of you using the shifter. If you punched it the cars gonna downshift anyway. So half throttle downshifting to 2nd going 80mph is ok? I dont think so, and i dont think that transmission is gonna last. If your putting the pedal to the floor its gonna downshift either way i dont see the point of manually shifting it. Only time i downshift is if i want to hold it in 2nd or D right before i hit the throttle, that way its ready to shift and not gonna have to downshift.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

and still i dont do this in high rpms...normally 3k and under.

also in OD my car is at 3k going 90mph abouts i think. I gotta 3.23 posi.

Asdfga3

Depends on your speed. In my s***ty-a** car, you can go up and down from OD to D and back all day and not really do anything as long as you're below 55. Once you hit that magic "freeway" speed, then shifting from OD to D definitelly becomes a major downshift.

Today, coming home from work I was going down a long gradual downgrade on the 509 freeway. I was rolling at about 80 and popped it up into Neutral. At the bottom of the hill it levels out and then you hit a light at the end of the freeway. Somewhere around 65-70mph I pulled it down from N to D and I could definitelly feel the lurch.

In a 3rd gen a shift from OD to D while the tranny is in the final gear is going to drop you from 0.70 to dead even at 1.00. That's a significant downshift.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

My transmission has a 5,000 RPM governor in it for towing and overall driveability. My engine pulls strong to 6,500 where the rev limiter kicks in. I gain an extra 1,500 rpm onto my powerband by manually shifting, see why I do it.

The transmission took 100,000 miles of me driving it like that and I got it with 165,000 miles on it. If I can do it in a 5,500 lbs van,I don't think your 3,500 lbs F-body is going to ream anything. Keep the engine RPM in check an you will be fine.

CHRISMAN2000

iTrader: (1)

Manually shifting your car will not hurt it. neither will down shifting it. The major thing is treat it like a manual car. So if your in fifth gear (t5) would you shift to second gear? No
Just make sure you've lowered your speed to a proper speed and you'll be fine. I do it all the time. My father's 78 Z28 has the transmission built to always shift manually. So he has to downshift and upshift all the time. His car is going Almost thirty years strong.
Merry Christmas

wstdintllgnce

i think chrisman said it best. my dad had a 72 roadrunner with an auto. he put in a reverse body and made it to where he had to shift manually. that was a badass car. 12:1 compression, 9's in the 1/4, and geared perfect. The tires wouldn't spin if he tried. Unless he locked it up and was preppin for the line. Don't remember what motor he had in it. i think it was bored out 383, but don't qoute me. he got rid of it when i was born. talk about pressure eh? kinda feel bad for bein born LOL, anyway..way off topic. but chrisman definitely said it best. i think we can close the thread now.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

ya except CHRISMAN dads car is built with a tranny to do that. My dad almost bought a car with a transmission built just like that.

Go all day long dropping OD at 3k to D go ahead and drop ur D to 2nd at 3k and 2nd to 1st at 3k and see how long that tranny last.

Theres no right and wrong here its all how you drive the car.

wstdintllgnce

did you read chrisman's post? TREAT IT LIKE A MANUAL. you wouln't drop gears in a manual at high rpms would ya? no. as long as you know what you're doing and downshift accordingly, you should be fine. but if you drop it like a dumbass, yeah....you're gonna screw something up. i'm sure we know how to drive, but not necessarily everyone does. so the main thing is to know what you're doing before you do it. if you can't afford the repairs if you do screw something up, then simply don't do it. as i said b4, i do it in my car all the time, 150,000 on the stock drivtrain and she's still running strong as can be. we're all right in our own way for the most part, and most of the posts here are speaking from experience. you can take it for what it's worth.

BruceEmbry

I have the 200c in my 82 Firebird. I have downshifted, upshifted many times without any problems. Now this transmission was rebuild by AMMCO back in 92 and has 120,000 miles and still is going stroung.

Now I'm in process of switching out to a 4L60e transmissio which will go in tomarrow. I'm switching to take advandage of the overdrive for better MPG.

My personal belief is that as long as you don't shock the drive line, then manually shifting the transmission should not cause any problems.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

true, but with a manual you could clutch in and blip the throttle to match rpms for the downshift. sorta double clutch like

in the auto, you cant really do that. i have 2800 stall and i have floored it and downshifted from 2nd to 1st at 25mph and it went smoothly.. just that the rpms went to near redline in first cuz first is such a short gear

IROCThe5.7L

I agree.

I am not trying to act like a know it all, I know very little when it comes to transmissions. I just heard many times it's a no no. But if you guys are doing it with no ill effects, more power to ya!

CHRISMAN2000

iTrader: (1)

§teveBasically the way its built is, you have to shift it manually. Thats it. up shift......down shift. Don't be stupid unless you want to get laughed at for pushing your car down the road. Or worse with a drive shaft sticking through the floor boards.
Orr89RocZ
Iwouldn't try that at home kids. lol
Iguess everyone's car is different.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

but its NOT a manual...lol

wstdintllgnce

you got me there...lol. but i think the treat it like a manual part was just meaning that you wouldn't downshift at high r's in a manual, so you obviously wouldn't want to do that in an auto.

but i was thinking, since an auto doesn't have a clutch, but a torqu converter and such, i think messing up the torque converter is prolly more likely to happen if you downshift. i mean, you can't exactly disengage the converter like you can a clutch. i dunno just a thought.

CHRISMAN2000

iTrader: (1)

Lets hope we never find out.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

ive heard from alot of people that when you race manually shifting from 1-2-3 is the fastest and that when your car is in d it is faster than it would be in od is that true?

BruceEmbry

The coment about the torque converter not being a clutch is dependent on the type of transmission that you have. For example the 4L60e torque converter will lockup in second, third, and forth gears. And if you install the paddle shifters(http://www.twistmachine.com) or some other form of up-shift/down-shift control, then the 4l60e will act just like a manual. The torque converter is unlock just before the shift change occurs and relocks after the shift change. The operation of the torque converter on the 4L60e transmission is the main reason that I am performing the transmission upgrade on my 82. Having the Overdrive is the second main reason for the upgrade. I just wish the 6L60e's(six speed) were available.

But as for treating a auto like a manual its no big deal as long as you do not shock the diveline. On many occasions though out the years I have down shifted my 200c from Drive to Second gear while punching it with no adverse affects. For example when driving up in the mountains, I will brake going into the curve, downshift, and punch it.