pearl_iroc

ok guys i got what may be a dumb question here ......

i ve got a 2.73 10 bolt rear end (drum brakes) 26 spline axles (i beleive)

now i want to upgrade the gears, i want to go to 3.23 to 3.42s (max), so this means i need a 3 series carrier. but so far from what i ve searched i only been able to find 3 series carriers that say for 9 bolt,

so my question is will a 3 series carrier from a 9 bolt 3rd gen fit my 10 bolt?

any info/opinios would be greatly appreciated, thanks

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

No you cannot use 9 bolt parts for a 10 bolt or vice versa.

The carrier is just the posi unit itself that the gears bolt to. You can get 3.42 gears that fit a 2-series carrier, or you can upgrade your posi unit to a 3-series and then get 3-series gears for it.

pearl_iroc

thanks man thats exactly wut i needed to know,
so i guess all i have to do is order the gears from summit?

am i correct in assuming i have the 26 spline axles? because on summit im seeing they offer the gears set in 27 spline http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure you have a 10-bolt? 88 IROC's with 350 TPI's came with 9-bolts, either 2.77 or 3.27. 10-bolt gears wont fit.

The 27 spline refers to the pinion, not the axles.

pearl_iroc

ohh ok cool, so the gears in the link i provided should work then?

im sure its 10, i did the old fashion bolt count back in the summer plus this car USE to be a 305 TPI, but just for good measure i will try and squeeze under there and count it again, i also checked the rpos it came up 2.73 posi

thanks for ur help so far dude

pearl_iroc

so i ve decided to go with the 3.42 richmond gears

so i got one more question i know i have to change the gears on the transmission to a 15T Grey Drive and 41T Yellow Driven

also do i have to change the vss sensor? i was reading in the other posts guys said they had too. but they also said they had an eletric speedo, i ve got the one with the cable (mechanical) i guess. so do i need to get a different vss also?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Since you have a mechanical speedo, you don't have a VSS on the trans. Just get the correct speedo gears that you listed, install them, and you'll be good to go. For good measure, you might want to pick up a spare speedo gear clip for the output shaft of the trans. They can be tough to remove without breaking the tang off that goes in the hole of the output shaft. That happened to me the last time I changed mine. Luckily I had a junk 700r4 on the back porch that I was able to borrow a good retaining clip from.

pearl_iroc

dohh, i should have known that there was no vss in a mecahincal lol

thanks for ur help man

Shagwell

early 10-bolts had 26 spline axles, later had 28, the break is in 89 IIRC. Richmond gears are known to be harder to set-up and often make more noise than other brands. - Personally, unless I could get ahold of everything extremely cheap(used/free) I wouldn't spend any money on a 26 spline set-up.

pearl_iroc

Shagwell i can see ur point on spending cash on a 10 bolt, i do have a few other options,

i can get a 1LE rear end in good condition for about 850, im not sure if thats a good deal or not tho, i would love to find a ls1 rear end

but here in Toronto theres a local "camaro scrap yard" called Paradise Alley and they buy almost every crashed/parted camaro in the area so im hard pressed to find one at the a junker so that most likely means either pay top dollar or pay a fraction of the price for just some new gears and enjoy that for a while until i can afford to pay them top dollar and buy a ls1 rear.

Pro Built Automatics

I have some new gear sets for this.
3.42 R & P (US Gear) for use with 3 series carrier
3.23 R & P (OEM) for use with 3 series carrier
3.73 R & P (US Gear) thick ring gear for use with 2 series carrier
3.73 R & P (US Gear) thin ring gear for use with 3 series carrier.
Let me know if you can use any of these? Dana

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Lol. Don't be so hard on yourself man. Actually, if you want to get technical, you do have a VSS on your car, but it's located on the backside of the speedo head, and it has no effect on the speedo reading. There's nothing special about a "1LE" rearend. Any 89-92 rear that got disc brakes and posi is identical to the "1LE" rear. That's just a sales pitch so that you'll spend more money for the same stuff. $850 for a "LS1" rearend is pretty insane too. If you want a good set of gears that'll set up nice and quiet, just look on ebay for a set of new, Motive brand gears. I've seen them listed on there for as cheap as $140 or so. Motives are easier to set up than the Richmonds and have a reputation for running quiet. Also, I don't buy the whole deal about a 26 spline axle rear not being worth putting any money into. Granted the 28 spline rears are marginally stronger, but ALL these rears have the same puny 7.5/7.625" ring gears. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone snapping or shredding an axle, regardless of the spline count. It's always the ring or pinion gear that ends up losing teeth, and if you're to the point where that happens, it's time to ditch the whole idea of running a stock 10 bolt and upgrade to an aftermarket 9 inch or 12 bolt. A stock 10 bolt is generally ok up to about 400 horses at the rear wheels, which is more than adequate for most modified street cars. Too much traction is what kills them. In other words, running really sticky slicks at the dragstrip a lot. Just my .

pearl_iroc

Pat Hall-- thanks for the info, yea the more i read up on people opinions on these gears the more i find people saying that Richmond gears are lound and harder to set up, so i think i ll look for a set of motive gears, i did check e bay but they only have for a 3 series carrier, is there ne other sites that sells motive gears i looked thru summit but they only have richmonds or there own summit brand

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I went to Motive's website, and they do make a set of the "thick" style 3.42's that'll work with the 2 series carrier. It's listed under part# G875342X. The X suffix is what denotes a thick ring gear. They also offer 3.73's for the 2 series under part# G875373X. They didn't list a thick set of 3.23's, so you'd have to choose between 3.42 or 3.73. I'd be willing to bet if you contacted some of the sellers on ebay that have the Motive gearsets and ask them specifically for one of those part numbers, they'd more than likely be able to get them for you. They probably just don't list them on their auctions since most people just buy the 3 series gearsets. I've also heard that Motive is the company that actually made the original gearsets for our rears, so that's probably why they set up so nice in them.

pearl_iroc

thanks alot man you ve been a huge help, i actually was on motives site last night but didnt see the 'thick gears' http://www.motivegear.com/pages/ring...m/gm_gears.htm i think there site has something wrong with it if it is the offical site cuz they dont even have part numbers but i will send them an e mail

i also found this site http://nationaldrivetrain.com/shopsi...tml/page4.html

they seem to know there stuff so im gonna send them an email to

thanks again for the help man, especialy with the part numbers

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah on their site you have to click on "catalogs", then click on the one that says something like "light duty truck, car differential parts". It's in a pdf/adobe acrobat type format. You might want to try these guys on ebay too. I just recently got a set of Motives for my 12 bolt from them for only $155 shipped, and they have them for 7.5" rears too. Here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-7-...4697QQtcZphoto

pearl_iroc

ohh wow man thanks for the link to ebay, thats PERFECT, i just bout them ,

thanks again man your help is much appreciated

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I hope you noticed the gears in the link I posted were standard thickness for a 3 series carrier. Did you ask them for the "thick" gearset that fits a 2 series carrier? If you bought the standard ones, you'll need to get a ring gear spacer to use them on your 2 series carrier. Just a heads up for ya.

Pro Built Automatics

I know of no one that builds rearends for a living that will use a spacer. They are prone to moving around. If you have no Torque or HP, then it will probably work.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah I basically agree with you on that Dana. Personally, I don't care for using them either. I just hope he didn't end up buying the wrong gears for his carrier. If they are the wrong ones, and they're already bought and paid for, he might have to resort to the spacer.

pearl_iroc

yea i ALMOST bought them, i responed to this thread and then was about to pay for em but then realized they didnt specify if it was thick gears or regualr ones, so i sent them an email, but i still havent heard from them yet

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah the ones in the auction link I posted are standard, 3 series gears. That's why I was worried when you said you bought them. Lol. Those guys have a phone number on their auctions too. You might want to give them a ring. A lot of places I deal with never answer their emails, but they usually pick up the phone when it rings.

pearl_iroc

yea lol i was about one click away from buying them, your right tho i will give em a call, cuz they havent replied to my email yet, theres also a place just outside toronto that my buddy bought his 3.73s motive gears for his mustang so im gonna try and get an adress from him this weekend

also is it really that big of a deal to use a spacer ? my engine is almost stock, it just has some simple bolt ons like headers, etc

rjmcgee

I know that these other guys in here have more experiance than I do, but I'll give you my opinion. I had a good 2 series posi and I scored a set of 4.10 gears on Ebay so I had to use a spacer. 300 whp and a 5 spd and it was fine until the carrier broke. Nice thing was I wasn't limited to finding a replacement 2 series carrier, I could shop for a deal on either and got a 3 series and just removed the spacer,I am still running the same $50 gears.

pearl_iroc

rjmcgee - thanks for your input, i think as a last resort i will use a spacer, but i think id rather no right now.

i still havent go ne email replies yet from motive or the e bay company, if i have time i ll prolly call em this week.

one more thing tho, i found some Thick 3.42 strange gears for 225+shipping etc is this a good deal? do u guys have ne personal experience with strange gears ?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Here's a cheaper deal on the "thick" 3.42 gearset. Thought you might be interested. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-Ch...5710QQtcZphoto

Dennis-Z28

iTrader: (1)

also worth noting that those are 27 spline gears sets. Also, 3.42 is $217 at Summit!! (ouch)

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

27-spline pinion.

JamesC

MY87LT

iTrader: (2)

Good thing read this in time too. So I can basically remove my open carrier and gears, buy the 3 series Eaton posi and 3.73 gears for the 3 series Eaton, 27 spline input, 26 spline axles, and I am golden? Woo hoo. Now time to save some money..

larry88ttops

I know that this is an old thread but I've been doing my own research on upgrading my 1988 Camaro from its stock 3.08 open rear end to a series 3 Eaton posi unit with 3.73 gears. I saw the comment in this thread concerning Motive perhaps being the company that manufactured the gear sets for the Camaro. In my reseach I ran across a company called American Axle & Manufacturing/www.aam.com . On their website,they say that they supplied gear sets and axles for GM until 1992. It is their ring and pinion that I am putting into my differential. Please consider this a statement of opinion and let everyone draw their own conclusions. BTW - much of the data that I used for my upgrade was derived from articles in Thirdgen's Message Board. I have derived much invaluable data from these pages not only on this topic, but several other ones as well and for this I am greatly appreciative. Thanks alot! Go Third Gens!

rock861261

i have ran a few spacers in my 4x4 truck axles no complaints stays in place and tight as long as you use the proper torque and lock tight

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

You're absolutely correct. AAM did supply the original gearsets for our axles. Motive is one of the best choices if you're replacing your original gears with new, aftermarket ones. Motives are made in either Italy or the U.S., I can't remember which for sure, but they're quality made. What you have to be careful of is all the cheap priced gearsets you see on ebay. They're made in China or Taiwan using inferior metal, and they're usually not even lapped. Lapping essentially runs them in and ensures they'll be quiet running provided they're set up properly. Richmonds are also still manufactured domestically, so they're good quality as well. These days foreign countries are buying up domestic brand names left and right, then capitalizing on trusted company names while offering shoddy products. For that matter, the cheap ones you see on ebay don't even list a brand name in the description, so that's a huge red warning flag that they suck!

ls1iroc89

i dont know if this is true and im just wondering, but ive heard that motive has had some issues on quality control. the gears would eat themselves. I actually came across a brand new set for my 9 bolt from a friend for $100. i was going top ****** it up until i did a little snooping around on the internet and read page after page of QC issues with them. Needless to say, i bought Nitro gears in 3.70 for my 9 bolt. havent installed them yet, ill let u know how they are when i do

DJP87Z28

The 27 splines is for the end of the dr pinion not the axle shaft spline count.

big gear head

Motive moved their manufacturing to Korea. If the gears that you found are made in Italy then they are good. If they are made in Korea then don't use them.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, rumor has it that they were recently taken over by an overseas company. It's a shame because they used to be really great quality, but I'd definitely pass on them now that they're being made in Korea. As far as I know, Richmonds are still U.S. made and Precision Gear, which is sold through Reider Racing are still manufactured domestically, and are supposed to be good quality. And though they're kinda expensive when you can find them new, the original GM ring/pinion sets are good quality. Gearsets are one area where it's well worth it to spend the extra money for the good ones. It's just not worth it to buy the cheap ones and have them howl and make noise from day one, or wear out prematurely. The imported ones are made from inferior steel and most of them aren't even lapped, or pre-ran if you will, which really helps them run quieter.