WHTrunner

My camaro has been driving me nuts. I can't go faster than 60mph because if I do, it starts shaking like an old person. Over the summer, I've replaced all the steering linkage (it was due to be replaced anyways) the front ball joints, all of the shock absorbers (whether they needed it or not), swapped out a wheel, and bought new tires. I still had a mini-poltergeist at about 70mph.

So today (after replacing the shocks on the front with no change), I decided to jack up the back end and hit the gas to see if the problem involved the drivetrain.

The car was sitting in the car port, back end in the air, speedometer reading 70, and the whole car was shaking with the fury of a hundred feminists being arrested after a strip joint protest.

So I shut her down and took a look at the drive shaft. No missing weights (still not ruling an imbalanced drive shaft out because of the way the rear was vibrating). Checked the universal joints for play. Everything was tight.

But while I was checking the front universal joint, I noticed that the yoke had a little bit of play in it. I looked at the bearing (the only one I could see from the outside of the tail housing) and There was a small gap where the yoke could wobble around in. I think I found my culprit (or one of them, anyways).

I've been scouring the interwebz for about an hour now, looking for some kind of diagram or breakdown of the tail housing so that I could maybe figure out what to do on my own. I'll be honest. I don't know much about transmissions. All I could come up with in my hour of searching is the names of some of the stuff that I was looking at, a bunch of mods and swaps that don't apply, people saying that it takes 15 minutes to fix, people saying you have to remove the transmission to fix it, a couple of adult themed photographs that turned up in a google image search for a diagram (they weren't what I expected, given that I searched for a diagram of a tranny), and a ton of frustration.




Basically, I think I need to replace a bearing in the tail housing, and possibly the yoke if it's worn out. What all does this involve? I don't mind yanking a drive shaft, but I'm a little funny about disassembling a transmission (I can fiddle with the simpler stuff, but I'm afraid of taking it out altogether).

My car: '86 Camaro, 305, 700r4, everything is stock (most of it's original).

I appreciate any help you can give me.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

@ pictures

I would just call Dana at Pro Built Automatics or post over on his forum. He usually answers questions same day on weekdays there.

TwinTurboROC

im gonna assume you had the rear tires checked out(balance, belt shift, bent rim, etc)

few ? first, did you make sure its not a flexplate or converter problem (put the car in park and raise the rpms slowly), also motor and trany mounts that are worn or broken can cause this (to check this open your hood, sit in your car, look at the motor, and VERY CAREFULLY power brake it, make sure nothing is in front the car, more than a 1/2 to 3/4 of lift of the motor = broken motor mounts, if u hear a clunk/thud near your seat/center console = broken trans mount, also you can get someone to look at the motor, or lay next to the car a few feet from the ds door and look how the tranny pan moves). two simple checks that some overlook.

the bearing on the tailshaft is internal, not really a bearing, and what you see is prolly the tailshaft seal. and yes a bad tailshaft can cause your issue, but normally will make noise when it does, sorta like pushing your desk/chair in school. get back to us.

WHTrunner

I just bought the tires yesterday, and I at least hope they were balanced correctly. They don't feel any different than the old ones did when I had them balanced.

I'm pretty sure that it's after the tranny, because it ran nice and smooth at all RPMs until the speedometer hit 63ish.

I was watching the engine while I was checking the drive shaft and I didn't see it move very much, I revved it hard once or twice to see if it would jump, but the little bit of movement didn't seem abnormal. I was looking at the transmission mount and I didn't see any wear in it. I gave the tranny a good heave at the back end, but it didn't move, and I've never heard it clunk or anything.

Maybe I'll try this power braking to see if it'll turn anything up. How do you do it?

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

hold the brake, push on the gas. pretty cut and dry lol

Ive got the same thing, im suspecting its the rear axle, my pinion has a fair amount of slop in it, i tried replacing the ujoints with no luck, ive got that demon vibrate around 70, not as bad as yours judging by your awesome description lol

TwinTurboROC

well i would try test driving the car in diff gears do 63 in 3rd, see if it vibrates, then 63 in 4th o/d, that way u can eliminate the trans complety. btw im suggesting the easy (very little dirty work, very little removal) tests first. leaning on an outa balanced driveshaft

Doom86

It sounds like a drive shaft problem to me.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

If his driveshaft was out of balance it would shake before 70 it would shake around 20 even

Doom86

I don't agree at all. It would vary with different imbalances. The factory drive-shaft isn't perfectly balanced but it is balanced enough to drive at the speeds it was intended to.

WHTrunner

I took it out and shifted between 3rd and 4th, and it shook just the same in either gear.

ATX-Iroc

your bellhousing bolts are loose

J91

Check the rear u-joint it's probably bad, had the same problem, that was it....

WHTrunner

Well, like I said, I wiggled the u joints and they were tight. Should I go ahead and replace them anyways?

J91

Pull the driveshaft and check them...

ATX-Iroc

run it without the driveshaft and see if its still there. When it the bellhousing bolts you feel a surging vibration coming from about where your shifter is. When its the u-joints it feels like an earthquake.

TwinTurboROC

ok now the gettin dirty phase. take a look at the u joints again, look towards the ends, the end caps have a black ring around them, u can visually check them to see if there bad (look for an orange-ish rust color around those black rings), to check them push/pull or shake on the axis each part of the + up/down then left/right (check it in one position, turn it 90* check again). have acess to a spare driveshaft? we dont want you just to throw money at the car for no reason. any more info u have please post to it. ive stayed away from any rear end tests, as normally they will have more symptoms along with the vibe etc. sounds like the trany is ok.

TwinTurboROC

any progress?

WHTrunner

Pulled the drive shaft out today, and checked the u joints. They were tight and moved freely. Not worn. but I replaced them anyway.

I noticed a small ding in the shaft by the rear yoke. I wonder if this is what is causing my problem. It's not a big ding, nor is it deep, but I guess it's enough to cause some vibration.

After changing the joints out, I put the shaft back in and drove it, and it still shakes just like it always has.


I was reading some other forums and whatnot, and came across a couple of threads that said that if the output shaft on the transmission isn't parallel to the input shaft on the rear axle, that some vibration can result. It's an old car -- maybe angles have changed. I might take a look at this before looking for a new drive shaft.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

Its a possibility, have you tried rotating the driveshaft? If you make it thru a full rotation without any results id say pull it out of the trans and rotate it like that

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

take the driveshaft to a shop and see if its out of balance cheap money to check it out for ya

J91

Like he says...

WHTrunner

I swapped the drive shaft out with another one tonight, and it didn't help.

I'm beginning to wonder if the vibration is coming from the front now. I can feel it where I sit. The passenger seat shakes, and I can hear the handle in the passenger side t-top rattle. I've mentioned the dash pad flopping around. I put my hand on the floor board in the back and didn't feel much vibration. The vibration at my feet felt like it was slightly more pronounced.

I guess I'll try looking at the bellhousing bolts if I can get to them.

One note: I do have a bit of shimmy in my steering wheel. It turns from side to side, but the column also shakes from the left to the right. It seems to be about the same frequency as the vibration. I'm thinking about inspecting the steering linkage, and making sure that all the nuts and bolts are tight. I could've left one loose or something. Also, I've noticed that when I stop, my front driver side brake squeaks. It's not a constant squeak. It goes "squeaksqueaksqueaksqueaksqueak!" till I let up on the brakes a little. I'm thinking this might be a warped rotor. Would a warped rotor cause a vibration at higher speeds?

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

warped rotor, bad tire balancing, harmonic balancer, motor mounts, loose bellhousing, pinion shake, etc etc

id check your bellhousing and also check your motor mounts, it sounds like its coming from them, if theres a vibration thats shaking your steering linkage id think it might be that, id loo into getting a different steering column though, steering wheel play might be a PITA lol

i know ive got a vibration around 60-75 but mine is from my pinion being loose, factory crap finally wore out time for a rebuild lol i heard someone say that it could be the harmonic balancer as well? i dunno go through and check EVERYTHING

WHTrunner

Lets see, the harmonic balancer is that piece between the engine and the big pulley, right? I might look at that, because it wobbles like a ****.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The bottom most pulley is attached to the balancer. If it is wobbling that isn't good. This can be from the rubber ring deteriorating or a bent crank. A bent crank will also cause the pulley to wobble.

If this is causing the vibration it will be noticeable at a stand still by revving the engine in neutral.

RBob.

WHTrunner

Well, the pulley doesn't wobble at all. It spins nice and smooth. But the weight on the balancer wobbles. I don't get much vibration when I'm idling. I get a little, but it feels normal.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

What happens if you rev and hold the engine at say 2200 RPM? Just do this with the trans in park or neutral.

RBob.

WHTrunner

I just revved it to 2250. I get a little bit of vibration, but it's faster and not as violent as the vibration that I'm trying to tackle.

Would some vibration at 2200 rpm be a sign that a harmonic balancer is bad?




I just went out and looked at my balancer again, after doing a bit of reading. I can see about an eighth to a quarter of an inch of rubber that seems to be sticking out towards the front of the car, depending on which side of the balancer I look at. I'm looking at a balancer replacement, huh?

ATX-Iroc

I promise its the bellhousing bolts. Your gonna be mad you didn't check this when I originally posted. Undo the crossmember bolts and lower it a lil. then all you need is a 2 foot extension and a 9/16 socket

WHTrunner

Ok, I'll check that in the morning.

rough

was curious if the housing bolts cured the problem? Another 70mph shaker here and i drive daily in the camaro 2hrs+ doing 80mph@!

ATX-Iroc

If your car shakes only at 70 mph its bad u-joints replace both of them and make sure NOT to get the greasable ones. They leak alot.

squatingeagle

whats the latest news? got the same problem i replaced both axle shafts and swapped out the drive shaft. check your rear wheel bearings for play by grabbing the rotor top and bottom and try to ...pry back and forth. i have play in my passenger bearing and the service manual says that one of the symptoms of vibration in the axle is bad rear wheel bearings. im going to replace that bearing tomorrow hopefully that does the trick. ill get back to you guys see if we finally found the culprit.

ATX-Iroc

The play you're feeling is because these rearends got c-clips. Bearings will make noise before they're worn enough to vibrate. Describe when and how your car vibrates

squatingeagle

at 70 and past it vibrates really bad. its not noise its for sure a vibration. didnt have it in my last 2 axles and now i do in this one. ill pull the diff cover today and run it without axle shafts and that will for sure tell if its bearings or not.

squatingeagle

it was bearings. replaced both rear wheel bearings and its amazing. my car has never driven so smooth

RocketyMan

Hey I've been reading along since I have a similar story with my '84 and vibrating really bad.

I balanced the driveline and wheels more than once!..The guy at I-5 driveline said my u-joints were ok since they seemed tight and relatively free.

I'm wondering if you could tell more about the bearings you replaced in the rear wheels.

Were they just simply dry from grease? Or were the bearings worn out pretty noticeably?

BlackNightRider

when ball bearing go bad they get play in them and can do one of two things when worn out they can cause vibations or melt the metal in the bearing housing and destory the axle
what he did was the right way to look for the vibation by going though everything like he did

fireburdluvr85

so this is the 70mph gremlin? i as well have this problem. went as far as buy a lingenfelter 3.5" aluminum replacement. i do have a slow groan coming from my rear end so i guess its time to replace the bearings.... good excuse to put my posi unit in....

rough

I can feel it around 50 mph, getting my taxes here soon, gonna get a motor, and fix this issue, but still clueless as to whut it could be, tossing parts at the car is getting old

Willg

Originally Posted by Willg
ok i need some HELP!! i blew my wheel bearing out and i am trying to change them. i got the wheel out got the pin nut and washer out but the race that seats the bearins want come off!!! dose any one know how i can get it off? i cant get it to budge and idk if its just stuck or if it skrews on. PLEAS help reply to my email willg20@yahoo.com
Originally Posted by Willg
ok i need some HELP!! i blew my wheel bearing out and i am trying to change them. i got the wheel out got the pin nut and washer out but the race that seats the bearins want come off!!! dose any one know how i can get it off? i cant get it to budge and idk if its just stuck or if it skrews on. PLEAS help reply to my email willg20@yahoo.com
Originally Posted by Willg
ok i need some HELP!! i blew my wheel bearing out and i am trying to change them. i got the wheel out got the pin nut and washer out but the race that seats the bearins want come off!!! dose any one know how i can get it off? i cant get it to budge and idk if its just stuck or if it skrews on. PLEAS help reply to my email willg20@yahoo.com
ok i need some HELP!! i blew my wheel bearing out and i am trying to change them. i got the wheel out got the pin nut and washer out but the race that seats the bearins want come off!!! dose any one know how i can get it off? i cant get it to budge and idk if its just stuck or if it skrews on. PLEAS help reply to my email willg20@yahoo.com

J91

Go to AutoZone and get a wheel bearing puller, they rent them.....

rough

Willg, if u want help, thats not the way to get it, very irratating.

Hope the mass emails dont get ya down

WHTrunner

Well, I finally got it figured out.

After having a buddy stick his head out the window while I was driving down the road, I pinpointed the wheel that was giving me trouble. It was the rear passenger side wheel. I had him drive the car while I looked at it, and I saw that the rim was spinning smooth while the rubber was bouncing all over the place. I ruled out the bent axle shaft that I was thinking it might be. And I remembered that the bearing was not worn out (from a previous inspection of the wheel). I had also previously rotated the tires without experiencing any change in vibration.

On a hunch, when we got back to his house, instead of rotating the tires again, like he suggested, I suggested that we swap the brake drums instead. After the swap, we took it down the road, and the vibration was on the other side now. I had my friend stick his head out the window and look at the wheel and verify that it was running smooth. Sure was.

So we went back to my house and dug the old drum out of the cistern, cleaned the cob webs and rust off of it, and put it back on. No more vibration. At 90 miles per hour, the car goes down the road just as smooth as it does at 30 miles.

So basically, I made the mistake of assuming that a drum from the parts store would be pre-balanced. I should've known better.

cjh1505

just found this tread today. my car has a slight shake in the rear. not as bad as the thread start says his was. problem has been for the last 2 months.i have the same car. i just did the rear brakes over the winter so im betting its the same thing. holy crap! who knew drums would be so screwed up right outta the box

WHTrunner

I know, I would've never imagined that a drum could be that far off.

I didn't ever realize it before, but when I was putting the old drum back on, I noticed a huge chunk of steel welded to it. It was bigger than any weights I had ever seen on any wheels. Apparently, a drum that looks entirely symmetrical can still be wwwwwaaaaaayyyyy out of balance.

J91

Chinese parts, they suck....

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

yes they do!

xX89RSXx

iTrader: (1)

I have shaking around 70 but in the front end. You can see the dash shaking and feel it a lot in the steering wheel. Rims and tires are new and balanced. Motor and tranny mounts a month old. Did the same before and after. No shaking when brakes applied. Nothing is noisy either. Maybe wheel bearings in the front. What else should I look for while I am in there?

xX89RSXx

iTrader: (1)

Searching around and found some people finding their yokes are bad or driveshaft unbalanced causing vibrations. Would this really transfer vibrations to the steering wheel and front end?