Xophertony

ok, so i would like to start this post off by saying, it snows like twice a year where i live and so i went out to have some fun, well i was screwing around in a parking lot and i bumped a dumpster at like 7 miles an hour with the nose, messed up some paint, no biggie. then on they way home i slid into the aposing curb at 10-15 MPH and hit my drivers side front tire on it. now my steering wheel is 90* off. i hold it and the passenger side portion of the tee is at high noon. WTF did i do, did i mess up my elighnment that bad or did both tires jerk and the steering wheel just moved on it's pegs. won't know how driveability is untill the snow melts, could be a few days.

dangit, why am i such a dumbass. i have the car of my dreams (my 86 bird) and i intentionally risk its quality. only in hindsight do i see how pointless what i just did was. wow. i am a total fool. if i ever do that again ( at least anywhere near a curb) may my feet fall off at the ankle so i can drive no more...


anyway, if anyone has any brilliand ideas let me know. i guess this the poke in the *** i need, i have been meaning to re-do the front steering for a long time now, it has always wandered a bit. and the wheel was allready about 5 degrees off. now its 95 degrees the other way, funny. man this could get expensive

ede

i'd jack it up and take a look. anything bent ought to be easy to see. doesn't sound like you were really going that fast but you never know till you look.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

I doubt it would be your steering wheel turning on the hub. More than likely you severely threw it out of alignment and/or broke/bent some steering components. You can open your hood or look under the car for the tie rods. There will be an inner and outer tie rod with an adjustable sleeve that connects the two. Either way if you broke something or not you need to have an alignment done. I've barely tapped curbs parking and been told my the mechanics who align the car that can throw it out.

You said it has always wondered a bit so this may be a blessing in disguise. There could have been something wrong to begin with and you now are just forced to fix it.

Skatepunk60

My friend had that exact thing happen ... check your spindle.

MrDude_1

yup.


think of this.... you slide into a curb with the wheel turned away.... the back half of the wheel is sticking out more then the front.

the back half smacks into the object and the wheel is forced to "straighten out"... but the steering is staying still.....


so the lil "arm" on the spindle stays put and the wheel turns straight.. same thing as that lil arm "bending in"


that throws your wheels into a toe out condition.. the right one wants to go to the right and the left to the left when you're going straight.... but to go straight, you need to have the wheel "turned" compared to where it was.



if its not too bad, a shop can move the adjusters and get it straight again, but while its probly fine, id replace the spindle....

and it probly wouldnt be a bad idea to redo the whole steering system now either.... athough it MAY not be needed..




and dont worry about it too much.. everything underthere bolts on, so aslong as you dont tweek the chassis, no matter what you smack, it can be fixed.

TomP

You wouldn't even have to jack the car up. Turn your steering wheel so it's straight (like it used to be), get out of the car, and look at which way the front wheels are pointing. Also take notice of how the tires contact the road as viewed from the front of the car.

When I hopped a curb back in '96, doing about 40 mph, it was one of those brand-new super-tall curbs (lost it around a turn, corrected it by turning the wheel to the left- then the suspension unloaded and shot the car the other way- to the driver's side, up and over the curb- dammit). I bent the driver's side spindle and the center link. A month or so later (the steering was completely unsafe to drive on by then), I looked under the car from the front bumper. The tires looked like a bulldog; the bottoms were tilted inward, and the tops were tilted outward. The car was also raised up an inch or two higher than usual, and the tires were so bald on the outside edge that the belts were showing through!

My guesses are either: bent spindle, upper strut mount plate moved, or a tie rod. I'm also guessing that when you put the wheel straight, as it used to be, that the passenger wheel will be pretty straight, but the drivers side will be off.

MrDude_1

heh, and jsut a small lil note..

if its not directly related to the V6 motor, your chances of getting the best answer improve by using the rest of the board.

with the exception of engine, trans and motor mounts, you have the same car as everyone else..... posting this in the steering and suspension board will let all of the guys that are into this stuff see it...


because most people dont go into the V6 board.... and no insult ment to anyone... but most of the hardcore into it car guys have V8s.... and while they could help you, they dont even see the question... POST IT WHERE IT BELONGS.... sure you could continue to use the V6 board as a catch all... but its to your advantage to look and ask in the proper forum.


hmm, i should make that a new topic.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Ehh, I'd be more hardcore if I had some money for a V8 and paint and the list goes on and on...

camaro_junkie

I find that posting in the other forums doesn't get that much response. I usually give up and post it in the V6 forum.

Xophertony

we have a winner, by now this would be buried under topics like

How to rebuild your suspension for less then 5 grand and
i have more money then ***, what now
or my car used to understeer, but now it does not, so here are some pictures of my new paintjob and subs, honda owners, come rob from me!!

ok i went a little overboard ?(ha board) but you get it. thats why i like the v6 page, people actually read my boring lame *** posts about useless junk, like this post, hope you all get a good giggle

KED85

Except for the tranny side of this place, the V6 section is the best for all help.
We ask, we answer, we care.

Ya can try driving up a driveway incline, hit the parking brake & take an easier underside look see.
I've done what ya done
EXCEPT it involved a rear axle.
About 20 miles later after the curb/rear axle impact, I was driving over railroad tracks, as I ground up the rear axle gears (car moved, so I drove....and....)...

TomP will understand what I'll say.
"Bridges freeze before road surfaces"
I did this in Pennsylvania, Tom, not New Jersey.
Have to admit, it was the best doughnuts I had ever done! I was real good (pulling car outta spin), until I hit that dry part of the ice surface!
No, the inital "stunt" wasn't for fun!

Billyboy

To give you a direct answer to your problem- There is nothing anyone here or the suspension board can do to help you without pictures of the font suspension of the car- anything would simply be a guess without seeing it.

If you don't have pictures and don't know what to look for yourself, then your only safe option is to tow it to an alignment shop and have it repaired. If the wheel is that far off, I would not drive it. Something can easily snap and completely break from previous damage and you can hit another car headon.

You don't have to be a V8 to be hardcore/ matter of fact, ain't no V8 on these boards that could touch me in a corner.

Xophertony

thanks guys, in fact i do know what to look at, i just wanted to know if this was one of those ___"everytime the front rend is offf it's always the (blank) thase (blank)s ALWAYS brake first. in fact(blank) is a wear part ment to bend so nothing else gets screwed, thats why (blank)s are so cheap."___ type of situations. on wednesday i will get the wheels off the ground and see whats looking funny

TomP

So the verdict is ... ?

Xceleratemaro

i doubt that your spindle is bent. for the simple fact that your tie rods will brake or give loose before your spindle will. it probroly just pushed in your outter tie rod in to your ajusting sleave(the factory makes crappy sleves and they tend to give easy) witch is why your alliment is out.

Gumby

I was thinking about this post tonight as the snow fell.

I remember when it was fun to go out driving as soon as it started. Sliding around parking lots and sliding through red lights.

Tonight would of been a great night but when I stuck my head out side, I saw my breath and went back into my den.

I predict 24 hr of hibernation until I re-test.

MrDude_1

you'd think that, but sometimes the spindle bends and the tie rods dont move.... dont ask how i know. :lala:

Xophertony

KED85

IF IT COMES OUT THAT
ya need new linkage, as stinks as it is, ya still get great steering back in return for investment.
Wiggle each side with tires before ya remove them, just cause it's easiest first choice.
Best thoughts!
On my slide rear axle bump
it cost me my income tax refund check of $402!, 1979.
FOR $50 THE JERKS COULDA SWAPPED IN WRECKING YARD REAR, but no they had to rebuild it without my approval.
Oh well, the car did last another 80,000 miles after that!
Check out lower A Arms for anything bent & the welds.

TomP

The point being, XT, is that I said:

I was asking for a verdict on if you'd looked at the way the wheels look with the steering wheel in it's original straight position. But I guess you're just going to wait until you lift up the car?

Xophertony

tomp:
ohhhhhhh.....
ok, yea, i looked at em today while i was putting chains on the rear tires (still slid everywhere). the camber is off. the bottom of the tires are closer to each other then the tops. (positive camber?)
it would lookike this:

\ /

not THAT much. but you get the idea.

karl:
originally posted by you:
"Wiggle each side with tires before ya remove them, just cause it's easiest first choice.
Best thoughts! "

i can not figure out what your talking about.

if you mean i should jack the car up. and then by hand physically go and wiggle the tires to see how much play they have i can tell you they are going to wiggle alot. they allready did. i am prettty sure i have needed new tie rods since i got the car. but i just never got around to it since it still drove ok. now that i have REALy messed something up i'll go in there with a flashlight and a bloodhound, sniff out anything that is broken and fix it all at once. man this is going to be alot of fun.

KED85

if you mean i should jack the car up. and then by hand physically go and wiggle the tires to see how much play they have

Yeah, that's it!
Best results to ya!

My steering linkage is worn. I'm still going to Phoenix with linkage that way. No time for me to replace all the stuff.

TomP

Yikes. That's how mine looked... where I said, up above, the front looked like a bulldog. I wound up with a bent spindle, bent center link, and a worn out idler arm. (I'm sure the bad idler arm was just because it wore out, not from my curb jumping.) Keep a watch on the tire tread... when I finally noticed how bad my tires were pointed, my steel belts were cutting through!

IROC-Z2814

last srping I was run off the road by a Dodge Neon (long story), anyways, I hit the ditch at 55ish and it totally bent my passenger side spindle. I had to drive it about 20 miles with the tires howling on the highway. Talk about embarassing. I took it into Les Schwabs because I could get back to the college to do an alignment. Now the only thing wrong is my steering wheel is a bit off Your best bet is to go to a wrecking yard to get parts if your finances are a bit.......yeah. I went to the local wrecking yard and spent about an hour with a buddy pulling all the parts off and spent another 40 bucks on all the parts I needed, spindle, tie rods, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

Now al lI have to do is wait till I get some decent weather to fix that problem.....then there's my injectors

Xophertony

no way i am pulling tie rods off a junkyard car. i'll buy new ones. (gmpartsdirect.com). think i'll check the price tomorow, anyone have part #s or should i try and get them from a dealership? also going to replace my pitman and idler arms, if i knew what they were anyway. man i hope my spindles are not bent.



EDIT: i don't know if these are right. i had to use the "alternate Catalog" on GMPARTSDIRECT. i will call my local gm dealer tomorow after work and verify the part numbers.

Outer tie rod end:
7837614
price for two w/ shipping $81.48

inner tie rod end:
7837598
price for two with shipping $119.40

tie rod adjuster sleeve:
26041272
price for two shipped $40.87

order total $241.75

also, i could not find the spindles on the page, if anyone could tell my what there part numbers are that would be cool.

KED85

www.northernautoparts.com
800-831-0884
Be pleased with the price they give ya.
THEN FOR FUN, call local parts houses see if they want the money instead of mail order place.
Sometimes & many times, the local stores will take the business.
With bad weather up your way, I'll bet you'll get a good bite from a local parts dealer. Local stores walk in business must be skating by with the storm ya now have.
I'd hit up yards for the spindles, if ya need them.

TomP

I agree with Karl about getting a spindle from a junkyard. Check out the car's front tire wear first, though. If the tires are worn evenly, the suspension (and therefore, the spindle) is probably okay to take.

For Moog tie rod (and other) part #s (take away the "MOG-" if not ordernig from Summit)-

MOG-DS1049, center link, $66
MOG-ES2032S, tie rod adjusting sleeve, two, $11/ea
MOG-ES2226RL, outer tie rod end, two, $36/ea
MOG-ES2227RL, inner tie rod end, two, $47/ea
MOG-K6249, idler arm, $57

Since you'll need an alignment anyway, you might want to consider replacing the center link and idler arm at the same time- both of those are "wear items", and wear out by themselves over time. Your pitman arm should be okay; I'd be more worried about the center link.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I agree on buying tie rods etc from your local parts stores. Much cheaper then gm, and same or better quality.

Call a salvage yard, and ask how much spindles are. If not much, grad a left for sure, and maybe a right.

Replace your wheelbearings too. Wiggle in tire is not always bad tie rod, can be worn wheelbearings.

This is not a cheap project, and not hard to do (just time consuming) but will make the car very much more enjoyable.


Glad to see that you accept what you have done, and relized what you have done. Takes a real person. I can also say, "been their, done that".

Xophertony

-where are those on the car? also, how muchare they new.


thanks man, always nice to have my character complimented.

is mog like a better then stock "performance" part. or just stuff that is the same, but cheaper because it's not gm, (and therefore not trying to screw the customers out of every dollar on parts like gm). if so on #1 (or if so on #2) i should get those.

but then theres the third option. stuff that sells cheper cause it's made cheaper. i plan on owning this car for a long time "do it once do it right" so, what kind of stuff is MOOG and, more importantly, do you have it on your car. (if tomp has it on his car, it is certainly good enough for mine)

Xceleratemaro

all right.. lets see here!

i would buy my tie rod from auto zone! they sell trw steering parts witch are made by feaderal mongal, witch just so happen to be the same people that make moog. the trw parts are a much cheaper, i whent ther there web site i think its much better qualitly(trw). i would'nt go to advanced auto they sell perfect circle product.. i dont like there qualitly. now as for the ajuster sleeves i would go with a spohn its worth the money for the qualitly part. now as for the spindle i would look in a salvage yard or ebay or ( me i have one if you need one off a parts car just let me know). now if you have to replace your spindle i would most definatly replace your wheel bearings. i would do the front brakes too, all at the same time, also i would do the lower ball joint. the wheel bearings are a bearing thats between the rotor and spindle.(thats what your rotor(disk) rides on) so hopefully your spindle is not bent. i hope i didnt confuse you

TomP

LOL! Yep, TomP's got Moog. It's supposedly the "best" brand for suspension parts. Just do a <a href="search.php?s="><img src="images/top_search.gif" alt="Search" border="0"></a> on the "Suspension/Chassis/Brakes" forum for "Moog" and you'll be able to dig up more info. For what it's worth, my whole linkage is moog (all tie rod ends, adjuster sleeves, center link, idler arm, balljoints). I would've liked to pick up some solid machined adjuster sleeves like the ones Xcelerate mentioned, or the ones by Hotchkis, but they were too expensive for me when I did the complete front-end rebuild (replaced everything).

[edit] Although, technically, balljoints shouldn't be classified as linkage- oops!

KED85

Factory used TRW/Moog stuff. Buying it is very easy as it's available all over.
Try Northern Auto. I've gotten lot of great prices from them. And it's all MOOG. I believ they quoted me about $200+ for all stuff. Linkage.
How to modify the factory adjustment sleeves.
Purchase Jam Nuts.
About $1 each.
These jam nuts go on tie rod ends. When adjustment right, tighten these jam nuts against the factory sleeves. Then tighten clamps. The nuts add a stiffening effect, this way.
PS this depends on how "possibly now wasted" your currents sleeves are.
I'll bet you find a bent adjustment sleeve, only. They are designed to "give" first upon impact.
You were going slow during impact as I recall.
If ya find only bent sleeves, just replace those & worry about other stuff when the ground is thawed out!

Xophertony

if i am going in i am getting it all done at once. damn the cold. i'll bundle up.
Xceleratemaro: you said lower ball joints as well, are those the ball joints on the lower control arm? if so i allready replaced them when i put my new front springs on. speaking of front springs, man i am displeased with factory ride height, might be getting lowering springs soon.

so, it's the adjusting sleeve you want to spend money on eh? cool, so in your opinions (all). should i just buy el-cheapo brand tie rods and get spoohn, or moog or some other performance brand sleeve? or since its a "wear" part, should i get el-cheepo sleeves, use the nuts to secure them (preventing slipage but still allowing them to bend in another curb impact ::knocks on wood:. any imput would be apriciated.


also, as of today my car has a :
NEW PROBLEM! last night on my way home from a buddys house after work my car did somthing weird. i was driving and i turned on my blinker. as it blinked my voltmeter wiggled in time with it.

and today on my way to work i was driving at like 35 and gave it some gas to go up to fourty and i experienced somthing else. the engine RPM went up a little (in proportion with how much gas i gave it, being not much) but the car did not acelerate right away, it hesitated llike i was pushing in on the cluch a little (but i was not, my foot was on the floor) then it semmed to go, this was all verry smooth feeling. it's not like the cluch " grabbed " or somthing, though id did feel for a second like i was riding the cluch, any ideas what this could be? seems to me that my alternator is starting to go, so it was missing spark for just a sec, but the volt meter is reading like 14 all the time, so i am not sure whats up?

might also be that these are two un-related things (the voltmeter moving and hesitation) and it is my cluch. can a clutchget so worn that it will slip during driving, does that happen?


i will also post this in theelectronics forum

IROC-Z2814

dude where in Oregon are you? I'm located in Corvallis and if ya need any help, I'm here for ya man. As for your blinker, my 1988 Camaro 2.8MPFI does the same thing as yours. I have a new alternator in it and it kinda bugs me but I live with it so I don't think it is an alternator problem. And as for your clutch problem, it sounds like your clutch is slipping a little. It will do this when its getting worn so it might be time or close for a new clutch.

Xophertony

MAN, the prior owner told me (yeah i know, an no he did not have a recipt) that he had just replaced it. LIES, ALL LIES. meh, what can you do. it will be fun.

IROC-Z2814: i live in beaverton right now, and thanks but i don't beleive i will require much help, if i di my brother is around, i helped him swap his engine so he can hold a screw or get me that sledge hammer or whatever. thanks anyway, good to know folks care.

KED85

can a clutchget so worn that it will slip during driving, does that happen?

YES!

www.hillco.com is one place to get jam nuts. I believe that is the proper way to connect to them.

Hey after ya done your car will be ready for spring!

Go cheap for the sleeves, unless ya score the better stuff for a fair price. MANY many miles are on stock sleeves by many drivers so they can't be "all that bad".
Yes ALL suspension decisions depend upon end usage & your pocketbook.

Xceleratemaro

no you missed my point.. my point was that why would you buy moog for more money and get the same part trw is made by the same people who make moog.

lower balljoints, are the balljoints on the lower control arm!
they should be fine if they were recently replaced.

as far as the ajuster go the original one's suck.. when you go to do an alinment you need to move the ajusters thats when they start to bend becouse they are thin and cheap and a jam nut wont do "the fix" the oem ajuster are weak and if anything gave when you hit that curb, thats probality what gave. if you want to make them stronger and last longer dont rig it up. just buy the good ones now!

KED85

Yes ALL suspension decisions depend upon end usage & your pocketbook.

I repeat this, because I also agree with what was just said/replied.

The stock sleeves are decent for the usual usage.
Let your cost decide what you spend On what parts.

By using more clamps in conjunction with jam nuts on sleeves, sleeves do stiffen up, to SOME degree.

Again, let your budget decide the solutions ya use.
As long as the problem is fixed, ya have spent money wisely, too!

Xophertony

FINALLLY inspectd the steering wednesday, tires are allready showing threads. i can not figure out what is wrong with this thing, i took some pics, i'll post them.
EDIT: originaly i had these images hosted with yahoo briefcase, they just changed that so i have t pay if i want to make them viewable to others, i don't so i switched to imagestation. here are the pictures (i can do direct links now i think)











hope this works, AND STAYS WORKING. from now on

TomP

I had always thought that TRW was the factory-spec replacement part, while Moog was the "improved" version of the factory spec.

In that "battle damage" pic- does that look like what I think? That the strut actually smacked the strut tower??

Xophertony

no, the sway bar mounting bolt went up and scraped it. .... i hope.

KED85

TRW supplied factory with the stuff (from valves, to pistons, etc to suspension stuff, too).
Moog was a also a supplier of suspension stuff, too. Moog has bought TRW suspension.
While Federal Mogul bought TRW mechaical parts division.

KED85

IF this was me, I'd start doing this.
Reinstall tires on car.
two floor jacks, "level front wheels (instead of "hanging down")", turning steering & see what happens.
I THINK THAT ya bent the sway bar and it's holding the position. Once sway bar released, your front suspension will be "better" again.
The front of the driver side front wheel obviously made contact with the underside.
I'll bet the back of front tire also has a clue, mark from curb tap.

TomP

There's a mark, an inch (on the last picture) to the left of the strut... midway down the strut, there's a seam- and it looks like a corresponding mark on the frame. But hopefully that's just coincidence.

Bring it to an alignment shop and see what they say; then take it home, fix it all yourself, and bring it to a second alignment shop to get it aligned.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

your wheels are rubbing your frame. Either it has larger/wrong offset wheel tire combo, or the alignment is way out.

Sorry didnt respond earlier, wheelbearings are inside the break rotor. When getting hit hard like described, I have seen them pop/brake. Esp if they are the stock plastic ones. For me, it cost about 35-40 bux for all 4 and rings, and few hours of work.

I see nothing obviosly bent.

See it has new swaybar endlinks.

KED85

I stand by what I said beyond what Tom suggested (bring to one who does free checking & then do your own work).
I also stand by what I suggested about sway bar.
One end does look bent & the cups holding the sway bar are very bent, when doing comparison look side to side. Also the sway bar attachemnt (driver side) seems at different angle.
Either take car to other for free examination or hold up wheels per floor jack, mount tires & turn wheel.
Looks like alot of force was generated (by impact with speed or size of curb height), or wheels were turned just right to have something occur.
My thinking is that if inside rotos bearings bad, something would make noise, wheel wobble or ?
I only toss out thoghts.....
Best is bring to car in for examination

Xophertony

thankyou everyone for your usefull advise

tomp: i never even noticeed the mark from the strut, your right, that has to be what that is

All: the car was supported on jackstands under the control arms (dirctly under the springs) when these shots weretaken, i just left the jack there.

ked85, yes i plan to have it inspected for free and then "bring it back for the work later" *cough*doitmyself*cough) then take it to leschwab and have them alighn it.

i think i am going to replace whateverthey say is broken AND both tierods and links.

also about swaybar bolts, they always looked like that, the swaybar is so goddamned big that it forces the mounting bolts in, you dont supose its bent do you?

another thing, the car has always had a little bit of positive camber (where the tires are closer together on the bottom then top). it was lowered when i got it (see sig pic, damn thats low) and was alighned at that height , then i put stock springs and never had it alighned, i only noticed recently as the tires started to show. then the curb bussiness, like i said, steering/alighnment needed work anyway.

well, thanks again for all the replies and help. the "steering/ suspension board" would never give me this much info.

JoshDT91

iTrader: (1)

Spohn sells a whole entire front end steering kit that at least to me seems worth the money if you can afford it. As for adjusting sleeves, Spohn and Hotchkis sell ones that are a lot stronger than stock.

If you buy TRW steering parts does anyone know if you get greasable ball joints, tie rod ends, and such with them? I know the MOOG parts offer grease fittings which my stock stuff has. Also if you don't know who MOOG is check out the side of a Nascar sometime and you'll see their logo on the front fenders.

KED85

Again, MOOG bought TRW suspension stuff.
I offfered my views.
NOW I'm very curious about what really is the matter!
That mark on inside of fender well is fresh & yep I say it's from sway bar bolt.

Xceleratemaro

I was wrong…. I’m a moron

Let me set the record strait ,

TRW and moog are two complete different companies, they have no relation what so ever..

As we all know Federal-Mogul is the parent company of moog. There is no disputing that! Now Federal-Mogul has changed it’s name over the last 120 years quite a few times actually 7 times, that also acquired some 11 companies during it’s becoming.. Here’s a list.

Federal-Bearing and Bushing
Bower Roller Bearing Company
The National Motor Bearing Co
Mather Company
Carter Automotive Company, Inc
G. Bruss GmbH and Co. KG,
Glyco AG
T&N plc
Fel-Pro
Cooper Automotive
Moog Automotive(Through the Cooper acquisition, Federal-Mogul strengthened its brand portfolio with Moog® chassis parts, Champion® spark plugs, and Wagner® brakes and lighting.)

Today, Federal-Mogul is a global supplier of automotive components and sub-systems serving the world's original equipment manufacturers and the aftermarket

Now TRW….

Over the last 96 years has been at the leading edge of technology in the automotive business. In the 1950's and 1960s, diversification was a common theme among North American industrial companies. TRW Inc. was no exception, becoming a major player in the aerospace and aircraft industries, primarily through Thompson Products, Inc.'s merger with the Ramo-Wooldridge Corporation in California. This merger resulted in Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge Corporation - the genesis of the name TRW. Now the merger that started the TRW suspension parts in the 50’s entering the commercial steering business through a merger with Ross Gear and Tool Company, there have been no farther merges with trw or aquiline

Now that that’s straitened up… let‘s move on.. suspension parts like ball joints (wear ends) will have a greasable
fitting for greasing ALL OF THEM . They must still meet ASME standers.
Now as for high performance parts-the companies are neither, because how do you make a steering part high performance? You don’t! you make it with good quality, both companies sell to the factory for different things. As far as the 82-92 f-body I tried to research it and came up empty handed! Both companies are Vary good quality. For suspension parts.

Now let me ask you this? Why would you spend an extra 60-100 $ on parts for your suspension and not finish it with good adjuster sleeves, when you can save the money and get parts that allow you to get adjuster sleeves for the same amount of $..

If you don’t believe the information that I just posted here’s some links to back me up!
[url]http://www.trwauto.com
http://www.federal-mogul.com/cda/con...5_4264,00.html


Thanks chirs,