How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
10-02-2010, 01:14 PM
#1
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
This thread is for people looking to get the most out of their v6 f-body, much of this information however, can be applied to all cars, whether they are v8, or non f-body.
First I'm going to come out and say it, mod for mod a v8 will always make more power than a v6, that being said the v6 does have advantages that some people prefer them for, hopefully the following will help you decide if you want to modify your v6 or swap for a v8:
*lighter weight, and better placement of the weight, aluminum v8s aside, our engines are a good bit lighter, and sit further back and a little lower than v8s, making our v6 cars better handling than the v8 ones, even the aluminum v8s while fairly close in weight, still don't position that weight as ideally.
*better fuel economy, even a heavily modified v6 if driven moderately will use less gas than a v8, its a simple matter of vollume of air/gas needed to fill the cylinders.
*the 660 is a robust engine((just how robust you ask?)(https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...vastation.html)), and easy to find replacement engines for and cheap, it is also a perfectly balanced engine with its 60* v
*It's different, and to quote someone who quoted someone else "any idiot can make a v8 car fast, but it takes a smart idiot to make a v6 fast"
*If you want more pros/cons of v6 versus v8, read this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/588179-why-v6.html
By now if you are still reading this, you probably want to stick with a v6, now to help you decide if you should work with the platform you have, or maybe swap in a different v6, allow me to break down your v6 options and explain them in some detail, along with stock power output, and potential output with modification, it should be noted that while I believe my N/A figures to be obtainable, to get that high will probably require heavy modification, and some sacrifices in driveability/streetability.
Engines our 3rd gen cars are equipped with from the factory:
*2.8 carb(82-84) 102 hp (76 kW) and 145 lb·ft (197 N·m) There was also a high output version available in the firebird, aside from different output levels stock, the following should still apply:
These early year carb motors had smaller journal cranks that are known for failure(in fact I saw an 83 v6 car with a hole in the block from shooting a rod, I suspect crank failure caused it) they also have slightly smaller valves, and a less agressive camshaft than the newer MPFI 2.8s, I would not build one past 200 hp without swapping to the newer crank, and 200 hp is probably the limit for an N/A non hybrid(more on this later) 2.8, with boost I believe one could make 300-400 hp max, and a hybrid build probably 250-300.
*2.8 MPFI(85-89) 135 hp (101 kW) and 165 lb·ft (224 N·m)
In 85 the 2.8 was revised, with a bigger, stronger crank(I do not know of anyone who has broken one) along with bigger valves, and a more aggressive camshaft, power limits are more or less the same, as anything you can do to one 2.8 you can do to the other, the only major difference being, in the MPFI 2.8 you shouldn't need to get a stronger crank.
*3.1 MPFI (90-92) 140 hp (104 kW) at 4800 RPM and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) The 3.1 and 2.8 are at their most basic level, the same engines, the blocks are externally identical in dimension, the 3.1 is basically a stroked 2.8(meaning the pistons travel further in the cylinders due to a longer crank throw), it also has a few other differences, mainly updated technology things, but mechanically, it is the same engine and will easily swap into a 2.8 car. Modified N/A non hybrid could probably make 250 hp, hybrid N/A 300 hp, and in turbocharged form, this engine can probably make 400-500 hp.
Now that I've covered the engines our cars came with, I will list the most popular v6s to swap into our cars, from easiest to swap to hardest, which is also from least power potential to most..:
*First and foremost is the 3.4 RWD v6, this can be found in 93-95 F-bodies, its output in stock form is: 160 hp (119 kW) at 4,600 rpm and 200 lb·ft (271 N·m) torque at 3600 rpm
This engine is more or less to the 3.1, what the 3.1 is to the 2.8, albeit the difference in size comes from a larger bore, its still the same engine mechanically, it still uses iron heads, but has a more aggressive cam than its predecessors, a serpentine belt setup, reverse flow water pump, and sequential fuel injection, the engine itself WILL bolt right up to your stock motor mounts, and your transmission, assuming you have a v6 car of course. It is by far the easiest swap as far as engines that our cars couldn't get factory equipped, as it is more or less the same engine. In N/A non hybrid form max power is probably about 300, hybrid probably 350, and in turbocharged form, this engine could probably make 500-600 hp. For swap information, read these:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...swap-read.html
Also, this is the engine that I have swapped into my car, and built up, so if you still have questions after reading the swap articles, I might be able to answer them.
*2nd engine of note, is a 3x00 engine, this includes the 3100, 3400 and 3500(lx9) engines, they are FWD engines found in newer cars(94+) and power output varies from 160 hp (119 kW) at 5200 rpm and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) at 4000 rpm for an early year 3100, to 96 hp (146 kW) to 201 hp (150 kW), torque ranges from 213 lb·ft (289 N·m) to 221 lb·ft (300 N·m) in the 3400. These engines are still part of the 60*v6 engine platform family, and the blocks while not identical to the RWD ones, are very similar, and share the same bellhousing bolt pattern(it will bolt to our transmissions) the 3100 is essentially an evolved rwd 3.1, it has aluminum heads, splayed valves, beehive springs, roller camshaft and lifters, and in newer version roller fulcrum rockers, the 3400 is its bored out big brother, with the 3500 lx9 being slightly more bored out, it also has a forged crankshaft from the factory. Being that these engines are newer and from fwd cars, some modification is going to be necessary to swap one in, namely custom fabricated engine mounts as these engines don't have rwd mounts on them, also the ECM and wiring harness will be needed, or an ECM swap, these ECMs have PCMs built into them I believe, so I am uncertain how to get around that with a non electronically controlled transmission, but I am sure its possible, look into it first. The egr if used might also require some ingenuity figuring out how to set it up.
Power potential for these engines is probably 300 hp N/A, 500-600 turbocharged for the 3100, and probably 350 hp N/A, 550-650 turbocharged for a 3400, with a 3500 being a little bit higher. For swap information, read this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...-3-5-swap.html
There is also a thread by the same guy on the 660 website somewhere, but I could not find the thread atm. But in general, this site is a good site for 60* v6 info, http://60degreev6.com/, though it mostly deals with fwd cars and 3x00 engines.
*Last but not least are the 90* v6s, I honestly do not know much about them, but I will give the basic info I do have on them.
There are several variants, a RWD 3800 that was in the late model 4th gens, a 4.3 that has been used in trucks and is basically a castrated 5.7(2 cylinders lopped off) And some front wheel drive variants, and whatever the grand nationals had. Any one of these engines has more power potential than the 60* v6 engines because of their displacement advantage, I could see one hitting 700, if not 800+ horsepower(with boost) for the non 4.3 ones(In fact, I'm pretty sure its been done). They do however have a downside, because of their 90* angle, they are not naturally balanced, and I may be wrong about this, but I believe spinning rod bearings is somewhat common because of that, also because of this angle, you will not be able to use your stock transmission, they will require a bit of fabrication with motor mounts, and probably an ecm swap, some of the engines are turbocharged or supercharged from the factory, the 4.3 engines I believe don't have a lot of aftermarket, or the parts that you can get aftermarket are expensive, I am uncertain.
My basic opinion is, the engine has awesome power potential, but requires a lot of work to swap, it is also unbalanced due to its block angle, in my personal opinion, a v8 is a better option, simply because it is as much work swapping in one of these as a v8, that being said many people love them, if you want to be really unique, or stay v6 but have more power than a 60 degree v6 can offer, want a challenge or big project, than this engine is for you. I am honestly guessing here, but power output for these is probably going to be 400 or so N/A, 700+ with turbocharging, 550+ with supercharging. For swap info, you will have to do some digging I'm afraid, as I don't know of any readily available information on it.
By now you have probably chosen your platform, I am going to take a break at this time and come back later to start delving into what options you have for modifying your engine, I am not going to be as detailed on modifications for the 90* engines, as I don't know them as well, but basically anything that can be done to a 60* engine, can be done to them except for a hybrid swap, also I do not know what parts availability is like for them.
First I'm going to come out and say it, mod for mod a v8 will always make more power than a v6, that being said the v6 does have advantages that some people prefer them for, hopefully the following will help you decide if you want to modify your v6 or swap for a v8:
*lighter weight, and better placement of the weight, aluminum v8s aside, our engines are a good bit lighter, and sit further back and a little lower than v8s, making our v6 cars better handling than the v8 ones, even the aluminum v8s while fairly close in weight, still don't position that weight as ideally.
*better fuel economy, even a heavily modified v6 if driven moderately will use less gas than a v8, its a simple matter of vollume of air/gas needed to fill the cylinders.
*the 660 is a robust engine((just how robust you ask?)(https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...vastation.html)), and easy to find replacement engines for and cheap, it is also a perfectly balanced engine with its 60* v
*It's different, and to quote someone who quoted someone else "any idiot can make a v8 car fast, but it takes a smart idiot to make a v6 fast"
*If you want more pros/cons of v6 versus v8, read this thread https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/588179-why-v6.html
By now if you are still reading this, you probably want to stick with a v6, now to help you decide if you should work with the platform you have, or maybe swap in a different v6, allow me to break down your v6 options and explain them in some detail, along with stock power output, and potential output with modification, it should be noted that while I believe my N/A figures to be obtainable, to get that high will probably require heavy modification, and some sacrifices in driveability/streetability.
Engines our 3rd gen cars are equipped with from the factory:
*2.8 carb(82-84) 102 hp (76 kW) and 145 lb·ft (197 N·m) There was also a high output version available in the firebird, aside from different output levels stock, the following should still apply:
These early year carb motors had smaller journal cranks that are known for failure(in fact I saw an 83 v6 car with a hole in the block from shooting a rod, I suspect crank failure caused it) they also have slightly smaller valves, and a less agressive camshaft than the newer MPFI 2.8s, I would not build one past 200 hp without swapping to the newer crank, and 200 hp is probably the limit for an N/A non hybrid(more on this later) 2.8, with boost I believe one could make 300-400 hp max, and a hybrid build probably 250-300.
*2.8 MPFI(85-89) 135 hp (101 kW) and 165 lb·ft (224 N·m)
In 85 the 2.8 was revised, with a bigger, stronger crank(I do not know of anyone who has broken one) along with bigger valves, and a more aggressive camshaft, power limits are more or less the same, as anything you can do to one 2.8 you can do to the other, the only major difference being, in the MPFI 2.8 you shouldn't need to get a stronger crank.
*3.1 MPFI (90-92) 140 hp (104 kW) at 4800 RPM and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) The 3.1 and 2.8 are at their most basic level, the same engines, the blocks are externally identical in dimension, the 3.1 is basically a stroked 2.8(meaning the pistons travel further in the cylinders due to a longer crank throw), it also has a few other differences, mainly updated technology things, but mechanically, it is the same engine and will easily swap into a 2.8 car. Modified N/A non hybrid could probably make 250 hp, hybrid N/A 300 hp, and in turbocharged form, this engine can probably make 400-500 hp.
Now that I've covered the engines our cars came with, I will list the most popular v6s to swap into our cars, from easiest to swap to hardest, which is also from least power potential to most..:
*First and foremost is the 3.4 RWD v6, this can be found in 93-95 F-bodies, its output in stock form is: 160 hp (119 kW) at 4,600 rpm and 200 lb·ft (271 N·m) torque at 3600 rpm
This engine is more or less to the 3.1, what the 3.1 is to the 2.8, albeit the difference in size comes from a larger bore, its still the same engine mechanically, it still uses iron heads, but has a more aggressive cam than its predecessors, a serpentine belt setup, reverse flow water pump, and sequential fuel injection, the engine itself WILL bolt right up to your stock motor mounts, and your transmission, assuming you have a v6 car of course. It is by far the easiest swap as far as engines that our cars couldn't get factory equipped, as it is more or less the same engine. In N/A non hybrid form max power is probably about 300, hybrid probably 350, and in turbocharged form, this engine could probably make 500-600 hp. For swap information, read these:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/4...swap-read.html
Also, this is the engine that I have swapped into my car, and built up, so if you still have questions after reading the swap articles, I might be able to answer them.
*2nd engine of note, is a 3x00 engine, this includes the 3100, 3400 and 3500(lx9) engines, they are FWD engines found in newer cars(94+) and power output varies from 160 hp (119 kW) at 5200 rpm and 185 lb·ft (251 N·m) at 4000 rpm for an early year 3100, to 96 hp (146 kW) to 201 hp (150 kW), torque ranges from 213 lb·ft (289 N·m) to 221 lb·ft (300 N·m) in the 3400. These engines are still part of the 60*v6 engine platform family, and the blocks while not identical to the RWD ones, are very similar, and share the same bellhousing bolt pattern(it will bolt to our transmissions) the 3100 is essentially an evolved rwd 3.1, it has aluminum heads, splayed valves, beehive springs, roller camshaft and lifters, and in newer version roller fulcrum rockers, the 3400 is its bored out big brother, with the 3500 lx9 being slightly more bored out, it also has a forged crankshaft from the factory. Being that these engines are newer and from fwd cars, some modification is going to be necessary to swap one in, namely custom fabricated engine mounts as these engines don't have rwd mounts on them, also the ECM and wiring harness will be needed, or an ECM swap, these ECMs have PCMs built into them I believe, so I am uncertain how to get around that with a non electronically controlled transmission, but I am sure its possible, look into it first. The egr if used might also require some ingenuity figuring out how to set it up.
Power potential for these engines is probably 300 hp N/A, 500-600 turbocharged for the 3100, and probably 350 hp N/A, 550-650 turbocharged for a 3400, with a 3500 being a little bit higher. For swap information, read this:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...-3-5-swap.html
There is also a thread by the same guy on the 660 website somewhere, but I could not find the thread atm. But in general, this site is a good site for 60* v6 info, http://60degreev6.com/, though it mostly deals with fwd cars and 3x00 engines.
*Last but not least are the 90* v6s, I honestly do not know much about them, but I will give the basic info I do have on them.
There are several variants, a RWD 3800 that was in the late model 4th gens, a 4.3 that has been used in trucks and is basically a castrated 5.7(2 cylinders lopped off) And some front wheel drive variants, and whatever the grand nationals had. Any one of these engines has more power potential than the 60* v6 engines because of their displacement advantage, I could see one hitting 700, if not 800+ horsepower(with boost) for the non 4.3 ones(In fact, I'm pretty sure its been done). They do however have a downside, because of their 90* angle, they are not naturally balanced, and I may be wrong about this, but I believe spinning rod bearings is somewhat common because of that, also because of this angle, you will not be able to use your stock transmission, they will require a bit of fabrication with motor mounts, and probably an ecm swap, some of the engines are turbocharged or supercharged from the factory, the 4.3 engines I believe don't have a lot of aftermarket, or the parts that you can get aftermarket are expensive, I am uncertain.
My basic opinion is, the engine has awesome power potential, but requires a lot of work to swap, it is also unbalanced due to its block angle, in my personal opinion, a v8 is a better option, simply because it is as much work swapping in one of these as a v8, that being said many people love them, if you want to be really unique, or stay v6 but have more power than a 60 degree v6 can offer, want a challenge or big project, than this engine is for you. I am honestly guessing here, but power output for these is probably going to be 400 or so N/A, 700+ with turbocharging, 550+ with supercharging. For swap info, you will have to do some digging I'm afraid, as I don't know of any readily available information on it.
By now you have probably chosen your platform, I am going to take a break at this time and come back later to start delving into what options you have for modifying your engine, I am not going to be as detailed on modifications for the 90* engines, as I don't know them as well, but basically anything that can be done to a 60* engine, can be done to them except for a hybrid swap, also I do not know what parts availability is like for them.
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 02-07-2011 at 06:29 PM.
10-02-2010, 02:13 PM
#2
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Alright, now for some modifications, I will start with the general ones that apply to any car:
First and foremost mod to making your v6 car fast, is making it run like it did when it rolled out of the factory, start with a full tuneup:
New spark plugs(AC delcos or AC rapidfires work best for 60/6s) New spark plug wires(get good ones, they work better, and have less chance of interference(spark jumping to nearby metal, or even other spark plug wires), K&N air filter/s, new fuel filter, change all the fluids and filters(where applicable) out(brake fluid, transmission fluid, differential fluid), do a seafoam treatment, pour half of the can into the brake booster hose, and reconnect it, start the engine just long enough for it to run, then shut it off, and let it sit for a good 10+ minutes and run it/drive till the smoke show stops, put the other half in the gas tank WITH a full tank of a gas. Then (do this before you change the oil) put about half a quart of transmission fluid into your oil, run the car 10-30m then change the oil. Replace any questionable items, like ignition coil if its the original on a high milage car.
Now for the mods that don't require delving into your engine:
1. Air intake, by far the biggest bang for your buck is a better intake, even a free flowing WAI(warm air intake) is better than the stock intake on MOST cars( I put one on my buick century, I definitely did have a discernible power increase and it pulled harder on the mid-top end a little just by putting a cone filter on the throttle body, aka WAI), mind you on the dual snorkel equipped camaros this is not true. For those of you who do not have that intake, you want to draw your air from as far away from the engine and as close to outside the engine bay as you can, you also want a high flowing cone style air filter, and to not have it boxed off, there is also the ram air option via drawing air through a ram air hood. For those of you with the TPI dual snorkel intake, you are in luck, this is an absolutely awesome intake setup, it draws cold air from in front of the radiator, it is factory CAI(DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON AN AFTERMARKET CAI, it will not be as good as your stock one) That being said, awesome as it is, you CAN make it better, there are 3 ways to do this, one is to gut it, this essentially means, removing the lower box portion and cutting the bottom half of it off so that it simply has two square holes the filters sit in with direct access to air, the other is to drill holes in the water guards, and last but not least, you can gut it, and run intake ducting of some sort out to the fog light tubes and make it into a ram air setup, see the following:
https://www.thirdgen.org/ramair
2. Your 2nd mod should be exhaust, now that you have opened up your air intake, its time to open up the other end, starting from front to rear, our cars have log style exhaust manifolds from the factory, they are ugly, crappy flowing, heavy, a pita to work on, and all around, they just plain suck quite frankly. Get some headers on there, if you have a 2.8 or a 3.1, or even a 3.4 rwd motor, you can get your headers from summitracing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PSM-70-1206/
They also have a ceramic coated version available, it is more expensive, but if you plan to keep your rwd platform for a long time, they are worth it imo, not only do they look better, they will last longer(probably twice as long), and emit less heat into the engine bay. Also, more good news, the pacesetter headers come with a Y-pipe, which is a LOT better than that stock piece of crap T-pipe you have. And if your curious about emissons and such, they have provisions for an EGR valve, and a bung on the Y-pipe for an o2 sensor, they do not have provisions for an AIR pump however. some people have issues using the stock o2 sensor, I recommend installing a 3 or 4 wire heated o2 sensor to have accurate readings.
Those of you without a rwd 60*, sorry but you're sol, custom fabricated headers is your only option currently, expect comparable cost though, varying depending on quality and who makes them.
Next up, your cat, once again, our stock cats stuck, these cars were choked with emissions equipment courtesy of the gas crunch, put a high flow aftermarket cat(summitracing again) on it, gutting cats is illegal and despite what most people think, will actually HURT your performance because it messes up the airflow, it also makes your exhaust smell like rotting eggs, if for whatever reason you insist on not having a cat, put a straight pipe in its place so that the flow doesn't get messed up. Last but not least, top it all off with a catback exhaust system from dynomax(summitracing) for a direct fit, or I have heard v8 ones can be altered to work as well, for v6 cars, I do not recommend true duals, you will lose flow velocity, back pressure is a load of bs, exhaust doesn't need back pressure, in fact it is bad, what matters is flow velocity, the ability of the exhaust gases to escape the pipes before cooling off, with too much room, ie. true duals or bigger than 3" diameter single it will make things worse not better. For most v6s, 2.5" is more than enough, if you have 450+ hp, then maybe 3", but no bigger.
Last but not least option for exhaust, is exhaust cutouts, what it basically is, is small y-pipe with a valve in it, that you can put into your exhaust system, allowing you to bypass it with a switch, most people bypass it before the muffler, and some before the cat, it basically allows you to run open headers for the track, but full exhaust on the street, I recommend placing it somewhere between the o2 sensor and the cat to get the best results, if you place it before the o2 sensor it will mess up your AFR, so make sure that its after the o2 sensor.
First and foremost mod to making your v6 car fast, is making it run like it did when it rolled out of the factory, start with a full tuneup:
New spark plugs(AC delcos or AC rapidfires work best for 60/6s) New spark plug wires(get good ones, they work better, and have less chance of interference(spark jumping to nearby metal, or even other spark plug wires), K&N air filter/s, new fuel filter, change all the fluids and filters(where applicable) out(brake fluid, transmission fluid, differential fluid), do a seafoam treatment, pour half of the can into the brake booster hose, and reconnect it, start the engine just long enough for it to run, then shut it off, and let it sit for a good 10+ minutes and run it/drive till the smoke show stops, put the other half in the gas tank WITH a full tank of a gas. Then (do this before you change the oil) put about half a quart of transmission fluid into your oil, run the car 10-30m then change the oil. Replace any questionable items, like ignition coil if its the original on a high milage car.
Now for the mods that don't require delving into your engine:
1. Air intake, by far the biggest bang for your buck is a better intake, even a free flowing WAI(warm air intake) is better than the stock intake on MOST cars( I put one on my buick century, I definitely did have a discernible power increase and it pulled harder on the mid-top end a little just by putting a cone filter on the throttle body, aka WAI), mind you on the dual snorkel equipped camaros this is not true. For those of you who do not have that intake, you want to draw your air from as far away from the engine and as close to outside the engine bay as you can, you also want a high flowing cone style air filter, and to not have it boxed off, there is also the ram air option via drawing air through a ram air hood. For those of you with the TPI dual snorkel intake, you are in luck, this is an absolutely awesome intake setup, it draws cold air from in front of the radiator, it is factory CAI(DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON AN AFTERMARKET CAI, it will not be as good as your stock one) That being said, awesome as it is, you CAN make it better, there are 3 ways to do this, one is to gut it, this essentially means, removing the lower box portion and cutting the bottom half of it off so that it simply has two square holes the filters sit in with direct access to air, the other is to drill holes in the water guards, and last but not least, you can gut it, and run intake ducting of some sort out to the fog light tubes and make it into a ram air setup, see the following:
https://www.thirdgen.org/ramair
2. Your 2nd mod should be exhaust, now that you have opened up your air intake, its time to open up the other end, starting from front to rear, our cars have log style exhaust manifolds from the factory, they are ugly, crappy flowing, heavy, a pita to work on, and all around, they just plain suck quite frankly. Get some headers on there, if you have a 2.8 or a 3.1, or even a 3.4 rwd motor, you can get your headers from summitracing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PSM-70-1206/
They also have a ceramic coated version available, it is more expensive, but if you plan to keep your rwd platform for a long time, they are worth it imo, not only do they look better, they will last longer(probably twice as long), and emit less heat into the engine bay. Also, more good news, the pacesetter headers come with a Y-pipe, which is a LOT better than that stock piece of crap T-pipe you have. And if your curious about emissons and such, they have provisions for an EGR valve, and a bung on the Y-pipe for an o2 sensor, they do not have provisions for an AIR pump however. some people have issues using the stock o2 sensor, I recommend installing a 3 or 4 wire heated o2 sensor to have accurate readings.
Those of you without a rwd 60*, sorry but you're sol, custom fabricated headers is your only option currently, expect comparable cost though, varying depending on quality and who makes them.
Next up, your cat, once again, our stock cats stuck, these cars were choked with emissions equipment courtesy of the gas crunch, put a high flow aftermarket cat(summitracing again) on it, gutting cats is illegal and despite what most people think, will actually HURT your performance because it messes up the airflow, it also makes your exhaust smell like rotting eggs, if for whatever reason you insist on not having a cat, put a straight pipe in its place so that the flow doesn't get messed up. Last but not least, top it all off with a catback exhaust system from dynomax(summitracing) for a direct fit, or I have heard v8 ones can be altered to work as well, for v6 cars, I do not recommend true duals, you will lose flow velocity, back pressure is a load of bs, exhaust doesn't need back pressure, in fact it is bad, what matters is flow velocity, the ability of the exhaust gases to escape the pipes before cooling off, with too much room, ie. true duals or bigger than 3" diameter single it will make things worse not better. For most v6s, 2.5" is more than enough, if you have 450+ hp, then maybe 3", but no bigger.
Last but not least option for exhaust, is exhaust cutouts, what it basically is, is small y-pipe with a valve in it, that you can put into your exhaust system, allowing you to bypass it with a switch, most people bypass it before the muffler, and some before the cat, it basically allows you to run open headers for the track, but full exhaust on the street, I recommend placing it somewhere between the o2 sensor and the cat to get the best results, if you place it before the o2 sensor it will mess up your AFR, so make sure that its after the o2 sensor.
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 07-14-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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1989Jack (07-11-2020)
10-02-2010, 05:17 PM
#3
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
This page will cover things that do not have a direct impact on engine performance, but will make the car accelerate quicker nonetheless.
Next order of business, drivetrain:
*Fortunately, our cars have decent gear ratios because they needed torque multiplication more than they did mpg, so most have 3.42s or 3.23s?(not sure if this is the other #, but I think it is) And while these gears are good ratios, and in my personal opinion 3.42 is the best all around gear ratio, a lower ratio such as 3.73 or 4.10s will give your car more getup and go, albeit at the cost of a little highway mpg, and top speed, but that will be offset by better city mpg, and you can still go plenty fast enough, its honestly a matter of preference, but I would recommend 3.42s at least, so if you have something higher, you should upgrade, also when referring to gear ratios, the lower the number numerically, the higher the ratio, for example, 2.70 gear ratio is high, this will give good mileage and top speed(in theory) while having poorer acceleration than a low gear ratio of 4.10s, which is something a drag racing car would use.
*Once you've decided what gears you want, if you have over 200 hp, you might want a positraction differential, it will give you a little more traction on launches, you can convert an open differential to posi, but it is honestly not worth it, you are better off buying a whole new differential, or finding a used posi one, if you don't know what posi is, it basically drives both rear wheels, instead of 1 rear wheel, meaning better traction on launches and more impressive burnouts.
*Next up is driveshaft, stock are cars came with a steel driveshaft, it weighs about 16 lbs(I have weighed mine personally, and that was with the slip yoke even) which isn't heavy persay, but an aluminum one will weigh less, you can find one on better optioned v8 cars, also 4th gens are compatible as well, just make sure whatever you get is the right spline count(Though I think they all have the same spline count, but I am not sure), what this lighter weight means, is faster acceleration, the driveshaft isn't deadweight like your seats, or your hood, or your hatch glass, its rotational weight, by reducing rotational weight you allow your drivetrain to spool up, and down quicker, improving braking and acceleration, rotational weight reduction is 4x as effective as static weight reduction(If memory serves), static weight being the seats or hood as I mentioned earlier, also, since it weighs less, more of that power your engine makes, gets to the wheels, it takes more energy to rotate 16 lbs than it does 8. Also, there are carbon fiber driveshafts out there, but they have to be custom made, there are no direct fit ones readily available, expect to pay about 1 grand, they weigh about half of what aluminum ones weigh, which weigh half of what steel ones weigh, but they are as strong as chromemoly steel(about as strong as components can get, these can take 2k hp if memory serves)
*for the same reasons as the driveshaft, lightweight wheels(aluminum, or magnesium or an alloy of both)(also if you have too much money, carbon fiber ones are out there), aluminum drums on the rear if you don't have rear disc brakes, and **** as it is, aluminum lug nuts if you have the money to spend on something like that($100 a set). Lighter discs would also help, but unfortunately carbon ceramic brakes are not yet readily available on the aftermarket, but hey if you're rich throw brembo 10k and I'm sure they can hook you up, and if you're ludicrously rich, carbon fiber brake discs and pads, f1 cars are using them as well as some ferrari.
*transmission, automatics provide consistant, and fast shifts, manuals cannot match them on those 2 traits, manuals however do weigh less, and suck up less hp, are better for engine braking and are funner. its a matter of preference really, but if you have an automatic, have it built to shift faster, harder, or throw a shift kit at it, corvette servo, bigger boost valves in the front pump & 10 vane rotor(this will make it hold line pressure over 5500 rpms a lot better) do NOT try to make it shift harder by playing with the TV valve, unless you really hate your transmission.
*You can also put in a higher stall torque converter, though this isn't something you should do to a stock engine, or even a non cammed one, its basically for engines with a higher than stock powerband, basically a torque converter thats rated at 2200 for example, will not transmit full power till it hits those rpms, versus say a 3500 stall one(pretty high stall) wouldn't transmit full power till 3500 rpms, this basically allows the engine to spool up to its powerband before it loads the driveline, providing for better/harder launches. Manuals you can put an aftermarket clutch in and build them to handle more power, but thats about it as far as I know.
At this point I'll note, that the stock drivetrain can handle about 300 hp if its in good order, above that you should have your transmission built to handle more, the driveshaft can probably take 500 or so, but you might want stronger joints on it, and the differential I have no idea, but I'm guessing 300-500. But I advise going by the 300 rule, otherwise you are taking a gamble.
Now its time to discuss suspension:
Spohn seems to me the most thorough company, they make everything needed to make a badass handling car, although there are other brands out there, such as hotchkis, energy suspension, koni, bmr, umi and a couple others, those are the ones I can think of offhand, but I myself would prefer to buy from the same supplier, because the products are designed to work together.
You might not think so or realize it, but a tight suspension, will make your car accelerate quicker, as well as easier to control, and improve cornering:
*Subframe connectors, the biggest and most important chassis mod, I would strongly suggest getting them even on a stock car, especially if you have t-tops. Our cars have a unibody structure, they aren't like cars that have two frame rails that run the whole length of the vehicle, but rather they have two sets of frame rails, one for the front, and one for the rear, called subframes, and the only thing in the middle, is the car body, subframe connectors do exactly what you would suspect, they connect the two subframe assemblies, to make a much stiffer, stronger chassis, they will prevent flex/distortion and firm everything up, allowing more power to make it to the rear wheels, instead of getting soaked up in body flex.
*transmission mounts and motor mounts, solid mounts will net you the best performance, but I strongly recommend not getting them, they will make the car very harsh, and are known to frequently break things, only dedicated drag cars use them for the most part, for those reasons, polyurethane is the way to go here, once again, same reasoning, less energy going into flexing things=more making it to the wheels, but you do need SOME flex where bushings are concerned, so once again, strongly advise against solid mounts, but ditch that stock rubber junk for poly
Also as a side note, I have heard that some brands can put the driveline out of alignment do to being the incorrect height, I do not know offhand which ones, but spohn specifically claims that theres does not have that issue, so I would get theirs and not risk it personally, others are cheaper however.
*torque arm bushing, poly it, and or aftermarket torque arm, if you get one, I would suggest relocating it off the transmission tailhousing as well, to the transmission crossmember, especially if you have over 300-400hp.
*stiffer springs, shocks, same concept, less movement, more power to wheels, so if you'r springs & shocks are the originals and your car is high mileage, time to upgrade
*Lower control arms, aftermarket, I suggest against putting poly bushings here, its one of the few places you shouldn't, because they need to flex to keep that differential under control, the best way to go is LCAs with spherical pivot joints, otherwise, stick to the rubber bushings or your suspension will bind in cornering
*there are a decent many more things you can do with your suspension, but these are the ones that will have the most impact on straight line, acceleration, the rest are more about handling so I won't get into them here.
Weight reduction
For the most part, the cheapest mod to make your vehicle faster, is to put it on a diet, hell you can even make money off it selling the crap you remove. As a rule of thumb, 100 lbs removed is said to be equivalent to a 10 hp increase, and a 1/10 gain in the 1/4 I believe.
*first up, hood, the things are beast, camaro's of all generations have huge hoods, its kind of their thing, they also have pretty similar profiles I've noticed. Anyway, the steel ones weigh nearly 100 lbs, idk that its that much, but they are heavy, they're made of steel and could be mistaken for the titanic. Swap that thing out for fiberglass, shed about 30-60 lbs, sell the old one.
*rear hatch glass, once again, heavy as hell and nearly 100 lbs, Idk if some states are more nitpicky about it, but in PA I know I can swap it out to lexan and still be road legal, I assume this is the same elsewhere, however you CANNOT put a lexan windshield in the front, it is not legal for a street driven car. 30-60 lbs, sell it.
*next up, AC, don't use it? broken? have a t-tops car? ditch it, or better yet, sell it!, remove the AC radiator and compressor, 30-50 lbs.
*rear seats, unless you have children or you're bussing people around, ditch them, its not like a full size adult can squeeze in back there comfortably anyway. 30 lbs or so, and of course, try selling them!
*if t-tops, hunt down some lexan ones if you have glass ones
*rear decklid(the metal part of your hatch/trunk) can be swapped for fiberglass
Also, should be noted if you get a fiberglass hood or hatch, you will need to swap out your support shocks, although if they're dead enough you might get away with the ones you have, thats what I'm hoping to do next week when I get my fiberglass hood, $60 and (if it works) I can get my hood to hold itself up for $10 more than new shocks would cost, while dropping ~50 lbs, sweet deal if ya ask me. 2 birds for the price of one stone.
Those are the things that will drop the most weight, without sacrificing a lot of creature comforts that most of us would like to keep on our street cars, there is certainly more you can pull out though, such as removing the carpet, passenger seat, radio, speakers, HVAC, dashpad, interior trim pieces, inner door panels, also fiberglass doors are made for these cars, but I strongly advise against them on a street car, ESP if you don't have subframe connectors, the doors in our cars are part of the structure, thats why they are so heavy, they have bracing in them, which is also to protect you from side impacts, and last but not least fiberglass doors require fixed(can't roll them down) lexan windows.
Tires:
It's a no brainer, if you have cheap, crappy, or bald tires and sit there spinning out, you might be looking fly, but you're not going anywhere fast, after looking into it on the wheels/tires forum, the best SUMMER tires seem to be Eagle F1 GS-D3, everyone who mentions them speaks very highly, and they got a lot of mentions, they are summer tires though, and below a certain temperature(like 40* I think) have crappy traction due to the hardness of the rubber compound, and obviously they won't do snow or ice well, they are said to do well in rain though.
Next order of business, drivetrain:
*Fortunately, our cars have decent gear ratios because they needed torque multiplication more than they did mpg, so most have 3.42s or 3.23s?(not sure if this is the other #, but I think it is) And while these gears are good ratios, and in my personal opinion 3.42 is the best all around gear ratio, a lower ratio such as 3.73 or 4.10s will give your car more getup and go, albeit at the cost of a little highway mpg, and top speed, but that will be offset by better city mpg, and you can still go plenty fast enough, its honestly a matter of preference, but I would recommend 3.42s at least, so if you have something higher, you should upgrade, also when referring to gear ratios, the lower the number numerically, the higher the ratio, for example, 2.70 gear ratio is high, this will give good mileage and top speed(in theory) while having poorer acceleration than a low gear ratio of 4.10s, which is something a drag racing car would use.
*Once you've decided what gears you want, if you have over 200 hp, you might want a positraction differential, it will give you a little more traction on launches, you can convert an open differential to posi, but it is honestly not worth it, you are better off buying a whole new differential, or finding a used posi one, if you don't know what posi is, it basically drives both rear wheels, instead of 1 rear wheel, meaning better traction on launches and more impressive burnouts.
*Next up is driveshaft, stock are cars came with a steel driveshaft, it weighs about 16 lbs(I have weighed mine personally, and that was with the slip yoke even) which isn't heavy persay, but an aluminum one will weigh less, you can find one on better optioned v8 cars, also 4th gens are compatible as well, just make sure whatever you get is the right spline count(Though I think they all have the same spline count, but I am not sure), what this lighter weight means, is faster acceleration, the driveshaft isn't deadweight like your seats, or your hood, or your hatch glass, its rotational weight, by reducing rotational weight you allow your drivetrain to spool up, and down quicker, improving braking and acceleration, rotational weight reduction is 4x as effective as static weight reduction(If memory serves), static weight being the seats or hood as I mentioned earlier, also, since it weighs less, more of that power your engine makes, gets to the wheels, it takes more energy to rotate 16 lbs than it does 8. Also, there are carbon fiber driveshafts out there, but they have to be custom made, there are no direct fit ones readily available, expect to pay about 1 grand, they weigh about half of what aluminum ones weigh, which weigh half of what steel ones weigh, but they are as strong as chromemoly steel(about as strong as components can get, these can take 2k hp if memory serves)
*for the same reasons as the driveshaft, lightweight wheels(aluminum, or magnesium or an alloy of both)(also if you have too much money, carbon fiber ones are out there), aluminum drums on the rear if you don't have rear disc brakes, and **** as it is, aluminum lug nuts if you have the money to spend on something like that($100 a set). Lighter discs would also help, but unfortunately carbon ceramic brakes are not yet readily available on the aftermarket, but hey if you're rich throw brembo 10k and I'm sure they can hook you up, and if you're ludicrously rich, carbon fiber brake discs and pads, f1 cars are using them as well as some ferrari.
*transmission, automatics provide consistant, and fast shifts, manuals cannot match them on those 2 traits, manuals however do weigh less, and suck up less hp, are better for engine braking and are funner. its a matter of preference really, but if you have an automatic, have it built to shift faster, harder, or throw a shift kit at it, corvette servo, bigger boost valves in the front pump & 10 vane rotor(this will make it hold line pressure over 5500 rpms a lot better) do NOT try to make it shift harder by playing with the TV valve, unless you really hate your transmission.
*You can also put in a higher stall torque converter, though this isn't something you should do to a stock engine, or even a non cammed one, its basically for engines with a higher than stock powerband, basically a torque converter thats rated at 2200 for example, will not transmit full power till it hits those rpms, versus say a 3500 stall one(pretty high stall) wouldn't transmit full power till 3500 rpms, this basically allows the engine to spool up to its powerband before it loads the driveline, providing for better/harder launches. Manuals you can put an aftermarket clutch in and build them to handle more power, but thats about it as far as I know.
At this point I'll note, that the stock drivetrain can handle about 300 hp if its in good order, above that you should have your transmission built to handle more, the driveshaft can probably take 500 or so, but you might want stronger joints on it, and the differential I have no idea, but I'm guessing 300-500. But I advise going by the 300 rule, otherwise you are taking a gamble.
Now its time to discuss suspension:
Spohn seems to me the most thorough company, they make everything needed to make a badass handling car, although there are other brands out there, such as hotchkis, energy suspension, koni, bmr, umi and a couple others, those are the ones I can think of offhand, but I myself would prefer to buy from the same supplier, because the products are designed to work together.
You might not think so or realize it, but a tight suspension, will make your car accelerate quicker, as well as easier to control, and improve cornering:
*Subframe connectors, the biggest and most important chassis mod, I would strongly suggest getting them even on a stock car, especially if you have t-tops. Our cars have a unibody structure, they aren't like cars that have two frame rails that run the whole length of the vehicle, but rather they have two sets of frame rails, one for the front, and one for the rear, called subframes, and the only thing in the middle, is the car body, subframe connectors do exactly what you would suspect, they connect the two subframe assemblies, to make a much stiffer, stronger chassis, they will prevent flex/distortion and firm everything up, allowing more power to make it to the rear wheels, instead of getting soaked up in body flex.
*transmission mounts and motor mounts, solid mounts will net you the best performance, but I strongly recommend not getting them, they will make the car very harsh, and are known to frequently break things, only dedicated drag cars use them for the most part, for those reasons, polyurethane is the way to go here, once again, same reasoning, less energy going into flexing things=more making it to the wheels, but you do need SOME flex where bushings are concerned, so once again, strongly advise against solid mounts, but ditch that stock rubber junk for poly
Also as a side note, I have heard that some brands can put the driveline out of alignment do to being the incorrect height, I do not know offhand which ones, but spohn specifically claims that theres does not have that issue, so I would get theirs and not risk it personally, others are cheaper however.*torque arm bushing, poly it, and or aftermarket torque arm, if you get one, I would suggest relocating it off the transmission tailhousing as well, to the transmission crossmember, especially if you have over 300-400hp.
*stiffer springs, shocks, same concept, less movement, more power to wheels, so if you'r springs & shocks are the originals and your car is high mileage, time to upgrade
*Lower control arms, aftermarket, I suggest against putting poly bushings here, its one of the few places you shouldn't, because they need to flex to keep that differential under control, the best way to go is LCAs with spherical pivot joints, otherwise, stick to the rubber bushings or your suspension will bind in cornering
*there are a decent many more things you can do with your suspension, but these are the ones that will have the most impact on straight line, acceleration, the rest are more about handling so I won't get into them here.
Weight reduction
For the most part, the cheapest mod to make your vehicle faster, is to put it on a diet, hell you can even make money off it selling the crap you remove. As a rule of thumb, 100 lbs removed is said to be equivalent to a 10 hp increase, and a 1/10 gain in the 1/4 I believe.
*first up, hood, the things are beast, camaro's of all generations have huge hoods, its kind of their thing, they also have pretty similar profiles I've noticed. Anyway, the steel ones weigh nearly 100 lbs, idk that its that much, but they are heavy, they're made of steel and could be mistaken for the titanic. Swap that thing out for fiberglass, shed about 30-60 lbs, sell the old one.
*rear hatch glass, once again, heavy as hell and nearly 100 lbs, Idk if some states are more nitpicky about it, but in PA I know I can swap it out to lexan and still be road legal, I assume this is the same elsewhere, however you CANNOT put a lexan windshield in the front, it is not legal for a street driven car. 30-60 lbs, sell it.
*next up, AC, don't use it? broken? have a t-tops car? ditch it, or better yet, sell it!, remove the AC radiator and compressor, 30-50 lbs.
*rear seats, unless you have children or you're bussing people around, ditch them, its not like a full size adult can squeeze in back there comfortably anyway. 30 lbs or so, and of course, try selling them!
*if t-tops, hunt down some lexan ones if you have glass ones
*rear decklid(the metal part of your hatch/trunk) can be swapped for fiberglass
Also, should be noted if you get a fiberglass hood or hatch, you will need to swap out your support shocks, although if they're dead enough you might get away with the ones you have, thats what I'm hoping to do next week when I get my fiberglass hood, $60 and (if it works) I can get my hood to hold itself up for $10 more than new shocks would cost, while dropping ~50 lbs, sweet deal if ya ask me. 2 birds for the price of one stone.
Those are the things that will drop the most weight, without sacrificing a lot of creature comforts that most of us would like to keep on our street cars, there is certainly more you can pull out though, such as removing the carpet, passenger seat, radio, speakers, HVAC, dashpad, interior trim pieces, inner door panels, also fiberglass doors are made for these cars, but I strongly advise against them on a street car, ESP if you don't have subframe connectors, the doors in our cars are part of the structure, thats why they are so heavy, they have bracing in them, which is also to protect you from side impacts, and last but not least fiberglass doors require fixed(can't roll them down) lexan windows.
Tires:
It's a no brainer, if you have cheap, crappy, or bald tires and sit there spinning out, you might be looking fly, but you're not going anywhere fast, after looking into it on the wheels/tires forum, the best SUMMER tires seem to be Eagle F1 GS-D3, everyone who mentions them speaks very highly, and they got a lot of mentions, they are summer tires though, and below a certain temperature(like 40* I think) have crappy traction due to the hardness of the rubber compound, and obviously they won't do snow or ice well, they are said to do well in rain though.
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 11-23-2010 at 08:01 AM.
10-02-2010, 06:31 PM
#4
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Now for the one you've all been waiting for, increasing your power output via natural aspiration(no boost):
Valvetrain and heads:
*Camshaft, the biggest gain you will see, will be from an aftermarket camshaft(aside from boost or hybrid build), the bigger the better, but anything over a 260 grind(advertised duration) and you should tune the ECM, while I'm at it, there are several types of camshafts, in our case(stock engines), hydraulic flat tappet, flat tappet means that the lifters are flat on the bottom, the other 2 cam types are hydraulic roller(the 3x00s use these) which have a wheel if you will, on the bottom of the lifter, which reduces friction, and generally revs higher, the last type is mechanical/solid(which btw can be roller or flat tappet) which means the lifter works differently, and they also require a specific valve lash(hydraulic does not require lash, the rocker arm sits directly on the push rod, cars that have lash, there is a small gap between them), these are also the highest rpm type of cam available, I suggest delta cams for a good price and service, many other brands make them though, such as crane, crower, comp cams, etc. If you want to use roller cams, you will have to do some fabrication, BL85C on here has it done it that I know of, if you want to use mechanical, you need to find locking rocker arm stud nuts, so they do not back off the stud due to lash. Also, they can't be the nylon ones or whatever it is that most places have, because it would deteriorate from the oil or something like that. Oh, and get a new timing chain and gears. Go to summit and get the comp cams one for $40, I was going to get mine at autozone so I wouldn't have to pay shipping, they wanted $80 or 100 something, for the EXACT same thing, I said F that and ordered one from summit.
*Next up rocker arms, our stock rocker arms are 1.5 ratio stamped steel non roller anything, upgrading to 1.6 rockers will give you more lift(or power), if you do this with stamped steel 1.6 rockers, you can retain your valve covers. There are also roller tip, and roller fulcrum rockers, as well as full roller rockers, same concept as the cams, roller means less friction, and in this case you CAN convert to use rollers, if its on summit's site and listed for your engine it will bolt right on as long as its the right stud size, you do however need to get fiero valve covers to have enough clearance when using rollers(this might not apply to 1.5 ratio though, I am unsure) last but not least thing of note here, is that aluminum rocker arms weigh less, and therefore are better, it is rotational engine mass, and reducing it will net more power and quicker revving as well.
*Now that you have a cam and some bigger rockers, how about some cylinder head work, for those of us with stock engines, there are two options here, port&polish the stock iron heads, or buy FWD aluminum(3x00) heads and do a hybrid swap(you can port and polish these as well obviously, then you will have insane flow). But as always each has pros and cons:
*Iron heads, they're heavy, and they're old, find the best porting place in the world, and the stock aluminum heads will outflow them and weigh half as much. Porting your iron heads however is MUCH easier than a hybird swap, and much simpler for your novice, if you have never rebuilt an engine, I advise against a hybrid swap unless you have help from someone who has. Also iron does have a pro in that it is more durable, from what I know it can handle more boost and is also more resistant to heat, which in extreme cases can crack a head or burn a hole through it, aluminum is more susceptible to damage from it due to it having a lower melting temperature. Personally, I would still take the aluminum heads, because unless something goes SERIOUSLY wrong they are no less durable than iron ones.
*Aluminum heads(Hybrid swap info), yeah, they're friggin awesome, splayed valves, half as much weight, beehive springs, and in most cases, roller fulcrum rockers, D shaped exhaust ports, whats the catch you say? Well, you can't just bolt them up, well actually thats not true, you can, but you will have to do some other things first, for one, using aluminum heads, means you always HAVE to use 3x00 intake manifolds as well, which means using the same throttle body, and fuel rail from said 3x00 as well, you will have to figure out how to work the throttle cable, setup the EGR if you require emissions in your area, and most importantly, you MUST lower the compression ratio, by swapping to dished(or bigger dish) pistons, alternatively, you can put a HUGE cam in, but this will affect driveability, and require tuning, unless you have experience, just get dished pistons, http://60degreev6.com/ has a compression ratio calculator, I suggest keeping it under 10.5, and even at that, You probably have to run high octane gas, do your research before running higher than 10 compression ratio, anything lower and you probably won't have problems. Last but not least thing of note with hybrid swap is that you will have to setup DIS, distributorless ignition with an aftermarket or custom fabricated reluctor trigger wheel(unless you have a 3.4 rwd, it has DIS stock, but you will have to do a little bit of work to use it), because of the intake manifold setup, the distributor hole will get blocked off, but first you have to plug it with an oil pump drive(you like having oil pressure right?).
As far as compatibility goes, if you have a 2.8 or 3.1, you can use any 3100 or 3400 set of heads and intake, it should be noted that 3400 heads and intake flow more than 3100, EXCEPT for model year 2000+ 3100 heads, they flow the same. Also, I believe you can swap rotating assemblies from the 3100s into your 2.8 or 3.1 to lower the CR, but I am not sure, check into it first, the 3400 you cannot use the rotating assembly because it has a bigger bore. If you have a 3.4 rwd, you can use either of the above mentioned heads and intake, as well as 3500 lx9 heads, which flow a little more than either of the above. You will also need custom length pushrods, and to figure out exhaust manifolds/headers, and use the injectors from the 3x00. There is possibly a thing or two I left out on this topic, do some research before doing it.
*So now you have more air going into and out of your engine, time for some more fuel, bigger injectors are called for, generally speaking, for every 10 hp you have, 1#/hr of fuel injector, meaning if I have 240 horsepower, I should get 24# /hr injectors, also you will have to tune for them, and at some point consider the limitations of the stock fuel pump(I do not know what its rated at) You can do N/A mods without bigger injectors, but I would suggest you get them to get the most out of your car.
*Stiffer valve springs, stock our engines start to valve float at about 6k rpms I believe, 3x00 springs can go to 6.5 I think, also at this time I'll inform that stock redline on our cars for rotating assembly is 7k, thats what the connecting rods are rated at, you might get away with 7.5k at your own risk, but unless you are hybrid you probably aren't making power past 6k, so why risk it? Anyway, stiffer springs, means higher rpm before valve float, and quicker valve response.
*valves, manley makes or did make titanium valves for the 3x00 heads, these would lower engine rotating mass, hence more power, and quicker response and revs.
Internals:
*connecting rods, factory forged steel on our stock engines, can take probably 400-500 hp, and as mentioned earlier redline at 7k, you can however upgrade to SBC rods(they or the crank need modified to do so) as well as you could get custom made titanium ones, expect to pay about 3 grand for them though, they will however lower engine rotational mass, thus increasing power, response and revs. ARP studs I believe make our stock rods good for a little bit more, but I am not sure of it, so check up on it first.
*crank, good for about the same power levels, nodular cast iron I believe, also, remember how I said the 2.8 and 3.1 are practically the same engine, well guess what, you can pull the crank from a 3.1 rwd and use it to stroke out your 2.8 to a 3.1, if the pistons on the 3.1 are dished( I don't know offhand) then you will need those as well. If you have a 3.4 rwd, you can put a 3500 lx9 crank in it, they are factory forged.
*windage tray and crank scraper, our rwd engines don't have these, basically when the engine is rotating your crankshaft is spinning in a storm of oil, this puts drag on it, windage trays more or less form a structure around it to prevent said storm, while crank scrapers scrape off the excess oil on the crank, they do not touch it(so don't put drag on it) but rather come very close to it, I THINK the two can be used in conjunction.
*oil pump, high pressure is not really necessary its more of a drag race thing so the engine isn't oil deprived when you stomp on it from a stand still, high volume however is a good thing, also, there is dry sump, basically our engines have an oil pump that sits in the puddle of oil in the bottom of the oil pan, sucks it up and pumps it through the engine, dry sump as I understand it, the oil and pump are contained externally, which prevents pressure loss under hard cornering, and also the oil storm I think.(not sure if they still have oil pans or not??) Don't really know more than that, or if its even doable on an engine thats not designed for it, look into it if interested, but generally unless you use your car for dedicated auto-x or road racing, its overkill.
Other stuff:
*underdrive pulleys, I have heard they work, I have heard they haven't, in concept, they should work, they essentially put a higher gear ratio on your accessories making them spin less thus sapping less power you can get them from summitracing or ebay, unfortunately none are readily available for our engines made out of aluminum, the ones available are steel, however aluminum pulleys would make more power via less rotational engine mass, I'm sure an aftermarket company could fabricate some up if you looked around. Also, serpentine belts are said to sap less power than multiple v-belts do.
*AC, not using it will mean more hp, same as removing it, less friction when not in use, and even less when removed altogether.
*180 degree thermostat, 160 is too low, it will negatively affect your engine, and you WILL freeze your nads off in the winter(you want kids some day don't you?), 180 is the way to go, essentially this lowers engine operating temperature a bit when used in conjunction with setting the fan up to come on sooner, lower engine temperature makes it run more efficiently, and the air will be cooler in it.
*EGR delete, I've heard good, I've heard bad, its up to you, matter of preference, if you do it, you will not pass emissions, and it will flash an ECM code as well, you can program out the code though. Way its done is to simply remove it, and put a blockoff plate at each end of where its pipe went.
*smog pump delete, less drag on engine, but will also fail emissions without, I don't know much about them other than people hate them and remove them often.
*throttle body, only if your throttle body is a bottleneck in your cfms should you get a bigger one, it will generally hurt throttle response otherwise, though it will improve top end power if it is a bottleneck in flow. You can modify some to flow better though without hurting performance, generally two things you can do, if it has a two sided throttle shaft with a slot in the middle for the plate, you can remove the plate, and grind off one half, thus reducing cross section and improving flow, you can also grind down the other half a bit, and grind down the screws(the side that sticks through, not the head), you can also make the entrance a little bigger, and smooth out the flow transition a bit. Lastly, anyone can do a throttle body coolant bypass, it essentially lowers intake temperature, Idk how well it works, but in theory it should and as long as you don't live in Antarctica you'll be fine doing it. It's also easy as hell to do. Heres the link:
https://www.thirdgen.org/coolantbypass
*intake porting, goes hand in hand with head porting
*lightweight flexplate, if you can find a place to custom make one, it would lower rotational weight\
*Individual throttle bodies/velocity stacks:
This is pretty much the zenith for an N/A car, when you have absolutely ran out of other things to do, and don't want boost, this is the finishing touch, they are unique, look badass, are hard to tune(So I'm told) and have bad streetability. It is basically a setup that deletes the plenum/UIM and replaces it with two rails that have one mini throttle body(in some cases carbs) per cylinder/LIM runner. These setups cost about 2-3 grand and are not currently readily available though a couple one-offs have been made, also Project89 is working on fabricating some, though I am unsure when he will have a working unit on the market or how much it will be. Also they require more hood clearance than the stock hood has, so aftermarket hood is a must, unless you want to put holes in your stock one, and they also require custom air filter/s. Best hood would be one with a scoop or cowl, just make sure it clears.
This is what they look like:
That concludes this portion, next up, boost.
Valvetrain and heads:
*Camshaft, the biggest gain you will see, will be from an aftermarket camshaft(aside from boost or hybrid build), the bigger the better, but anything over a 260 grind(advertised duration) and you should tune the ECM, while I'm at it, there are several types of camshafts, in our case(stock engines), hydraulic flat tappet, flat tappet means that the lifters are flat on the bottom, the other 2 cam types are hydraulic roller(the 3x00s use these) which have a wheel if you will, on the bottom of the lifter, which reduces friction, and generally revs higher, the last type is mechanical/solid(which btw can be roller or flat tappet) which means the lifter works differently, and they also require a specific valve lash(hydraulic does not require lash, the rocker arm sits directly on the push rod, cars that have lash, there is a small gap between them), these are also the highest rpm type of cam available, I suggest delta cams for a good price and service, many other brands make them though, such as crane, crower, comp cams, etc. If you want to use roller cams, you will have to do some fabrication, BL85C on here has it done it that I know of, if you want to use mechanical, you need to find locking rocker arm stud nuts, so they do not back off the stud due to lash. Also, they can't be the nylon ones or whatever it is that most places have, because it would deteriorate from the oil or something like that. Oh, and get a new timing chain and gears. Go to summit and get the comp cams one for $40, I was going to get mine at autozone so I wouldn't have to pay shipping, they wanted $80 or 100 something, for the EXACT same thing, I said F that and ordered one from summit.
*Next up rocker arms, our stock rocker arms are 1.5 ratio stamped steel non roller anything, upgrading to 1.6 rockers will give you more lift(or power), if you do this with stamped steel 1.6 rockers, you can retain your valve covers. There are also roller tip, and roller fulcrum rockers, as well as full roller rockers, same concept as the cams, roller means less friction, and in this case you CAN convert to use rollers, if its on summit's site and listed for your engine it will bolt right on as long as its the right stud size, you do however need to get fiero valve covers to have enough clearance when using rollers(this might not apply to 1.5 ratio though, I am unsure) last but not least thing of note here, is that aluminum rocker arms weigh less, and therefore are better, it is rotational engine mass, and reducing it will net more power and quicker revving as well.
*Now that you have a cam and some bigger rockers, how about some cylinder head work, for those of us with stock engines, there are two options here, port&polish the stock iron heads, or buy FWD aluminum(3x00) heads and do a hybrid swap(you can port and polish these as well obviously, then you will have insane flow). But as always each has pros and cons:
*Iron heads, they're heavy, and they're old, find the best porting place in the world, and the stock aluminum heads will outflow them and weigh half as much. Porting your iron heads however is MUCH easier than a hybird swap, and much simpler for your novice, if you have never rebuilt an engine, I advise against a hybrid swap unless you have help from someone who has. Also iron does have a pro in that it is more durable, from what I know it can handle more boost and is also more resistant to heat, which in extreme cases can crack a head or burn a hole through it, aluminum is more susceptible to damage from it due to it having a lower melting temperature. Personally, I would still take the aluminum heads, because unless something goes SERIOUSLY wrong they are no less durable than iron ones.
*Aluminum heads(Hybrid swap info), yeah, they're friggin awesome, splayed valves, half as much weight, beehive springs, and in most cases, roller fulcrum rockers, D shaped exhaust ports, whats the catch you say? Well, you can't just bolt them up, well actually thats not true, you can, but you will have to do some other things first, for one, using aluminum heads, means you always HAVE to use 3x00 intake manifolds as well, which means using the same throttle body, and fuel rail from said 3x00 as well, you will have to figure out how to work the throttle cable, setup the EGR if you require emissions in your area, and most importantly, you MUST lower the compression ratio, by swapping to dished(or bigger dish) pistons, alternatively, you can put a HUGE cam in, but this will affect driveability, and require tuning, unless you have experience, just get dished pistons, http://60degreev6.com/ has a compression ratio calculator, I suggest keeping it under 10.5, and even at that, You probably have to run high octane gas, do your research before running higher than 10 compression ratio, anything lower and you probably won't have problems. Last but not least thing of note with hybrid swap is that you will have to setup DIS, distributorless ignition with an aftermarket or custom fabricated reluctor trigger wheel(unless you have a 3.4 rwd, it has DIS stock, but you will have to do a little bit of work to use it), because of the intake manifold setup, the distributor hole will get blocked off, but first you have to plug it with an oil pump drive(you like having oil pressure right?).
As far as compatibility goes, if you have a 2.8 or 3.1, you can use any 3100 or 3400 set of heads and intake, it should be noted that 3400 heads and intake flow more than 3100, EXCEPT for model year 2000+ 3100 heads, they flow the same. Also, I believe you can swap rotating assemblies from the 3100s into your 2.8 or 3.1 to lower the CR, but I am not sure, check into it first, the 3400 you cannot use the rotating assembly because it has a bigger bore. If you have a 3.4 rwd, you can use either of the above mentioned heads and intake, as well as 3500 lx9 heads, which flow a little more than either of the above. You will also need custom length pushrods, and to figure out exhaust manifolds/headers, and use the injectors from the 3x00. There is possibly a thing or two I left out on this topic, do some research before doing it.
*So now you have more air going into and out of your engine, time for some more fuel, bigger injectors are called for, generally speaking, for every 10 hp you have, 1#/hr of fuel injector, meaning if I have 240 horsepower, I should get 24# /hr injectors, also you will have to tune for them, and at some point consider the limitations of the stock fuel pump(I do not know what its rated at) You can do N/A mods without bigger injectors, but I would suggest you get them to get the most out of your car.
*Stiffer valve springs, stock our engines start to valve float at about 6k rpms I believe, 3x00 springs can go to 6.5 I think, also at this time I'll inform that stock redline on our cars for rotating assembly is 7k, thats what the connecting rods are rated at, you might get away with 7.5k at your own risk, but unless you are hybrid you probably aren't making power past 6k, so why risk it? Anyway, stiffer springs, means higher rpm before valve float, and quicker valve response.
*valves, manley makes or did make titanium valves for the 3x00 heads, these would lower engine rotating mass, hence more power, and quicker response and revs.
Internals:
*connecting rods, factory forged steel on our stock engines, can take probably 400-500 hp, and as mentioned earlier redline at 7k, you can however upgrade to SBC rods(they or the crank need modified to do so) as well as you could get custom made titanium ones, expect to pay about 3 grand for them though, they will however lower engine rotational mass, thus increasing power, response and revs. ARP studs I believe make our stock rods good for a little bit more, but I am not sure of it, so check up on it first.
*crank, good for about the same power levels, nodular cast iron I believe, also, remember how I said the 2.8 and 3.1 are practically the same engine, well guess what, you can pull the crank from a 3.1 rwd and use it to stroke out your 2.8 to a 3.1, if the pistons on the 3.1 are dished( I don't know offhand) then you will need those as well. If you have a 3.4 rwd, you can put a 3500 lx9 crank in it, they are factory forged.
*windage tray and crank scraper, our rwd engines don't have these, basically when the engine is rotating your crankshaft is spinning in a storm of oil, this puts drag on it, windage trays more or less form a structure around it to prevent said storm, while crank scrapers scrape off the excess oil on the crank, they do not touch it(so don't put drag on it) but rather come very close to it, I THINK the two can be used in conjunction.
*oil pump, high pressure is not really necessary its more of a drag race thing so the engine isn't oil deprived when you stomp on it from a stand still, high volume however is a good thing, also, there is dry sump, basically our engines have an oil pump that sits in the puddle of oil in the bottom of the oil pan, sucks it up and pumps it through the engine, dry sump as I understand it, the oil and pump are contained externally, which prevents pressure loss under hard cornering, and also the oil storm I think.(not sure if they still have oil pans or not??) Don't really know more than that, or if its even doable on an engine thats not designed for it, look into it if interested, but generally unless you use your car for dedicated auto-x or road racing, its overkill.
Other stuff:
*underdrive pulleys, I have heard they work, I have heard they haven't, in concept, they should work, they essentially put a higher gear ratio on your accessories making them spin less thus sapping less power you can get them from summitracing or ebay, unfortunately none are readily available for our engines made out of aluminum, the ones available are steel, however aluminum pulleys would make more power via less rotational engine mass, I'm sure an aftermarket company could fabricate some up if you looked around. Also, serpentine belts are said to sap less power than multiple v-belts do.
*AC, not using it will mean more hp, same as removing it, less friction when not in use, and even less when removed altogether.
*180 degree thermostat, 160 is too low, it will negatively affect your engine, and you WILL freeze your nads off in the winter(you want kids some day don't you?), 180 is the way to go, essentially this lowers engine operating temperature a bit when used in conjunction with setting the fan up to come on sooner, lower engine temperature makes it run more efficiently, and the air will be cooler in it.
*EGR delete, I've heard good, I've heard bad, its up to you, matter of preference, if you do it, you will not pass emissions, and it will flash an ECM code as well, you can program out the code though. Way its done is to simply remove it, and put a blockoff plate at each end of where its pipe went.
*smog pump delete, less drag on engine, but will also fail emissions without, I don't know much about them other than people hate them and remove them often.
*throttle body, only if your throttle body is a bottleneck in your cfms should you get a bigger one, it will generally hurt throttle response otherwise, though it will improve top end power if it is a bottleneck in flow. You can modify some to flow better though without hurting performance, generally two things you can do, if it has a two sided throttle shaft with a slot in the middle for the plate, you can remove the plate, and grind off one half, thus reducing cross section and improving flow, you can also grind down the other half a bit, and grind down the screws(the side that sticks through, not the head), you can also make the entrance a little bigger, and smooth out the flow transition a bit. Lastly, anyone can do a throttle body coolant bypass, it essentially lowers intake temperature, Idk how well it works, but in theory it should and as long as you don't live in Antarctica you'll be fine doing it. It's also easy as hell to do. Heres the link:
https://www.thirdgen.org/coolantbypass
*intake porting, goes hand in hand with head porting
*lightweight flexplate, if you can find a place to custom make one, it would lower rotational weight\
*Individual throttle bodies/velocity stacks:
This is pretty much the zenith for an N/A car, when you have absolutely ran out of other things to do, and don't want boost, this is the finishing touch, they are unique, look badass, are hard to tune(So I'm told) and have bad streetability. It is basically a setup that deletes the plenum/UIM and replaces it with two rails that have one mini throttle body(in some cases carbs) per cylinder/LIM runner. These setups cost about 2-3 grand and are not currently readily available though a couple one-offs have been made, also Project89 is working on fabricating some, though I am unsure when he will have a working unit on the market or how much it will be. Also they require more hood clearance than the stock hood has, so aftermarket hood is a must, unless you want to put holes in your stock one, and they also require custom air filter/s. Best hood would be one with a scoop or cowl, just make sure it clears.
This is what they look like:
That concludes this portion, next up, boost.
Last edited by Project 3.4 Camaro; 11-23-2010 at 08:10 AM.
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1989Jack (07-11-2020)
10-02-2010, 06:56 PM
#5
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
The best option short of boost, is aluminum heads, but what if you've gone that far and want more? Or the hybrid swap is over your head, or overkill?
Then boost is your friend, boost means higher than atmosphere pressure, basically you're force feeding your engine air, think of it like this, N/A is drinking through a straw, but boost is like shoving a garden hose in your mouth. Any time you boost an engine, you need to upgrade your fuel supply, and do ECM tuning.
Unfortunately there are no aftermarket supercharging or turbocharging kits available, some people say there are, I HAVE searched for them, and never found any, there are universal turbocharging kits though I believe, and if you are very very very lucky, you might find an old supercharger, they were briefly made by a couple companies, but they are VERY rare.
*Turbocharging vs supercharging, they each have their pros and cons:
Turbochargers use little engine power, can make more boost, are generally cheaper and easier to setup, and make power when you romp on it, and not when you're cruising around. on the downside, they drastically raise under the hood temperature, and are have a little bit of lag. If you stay under 6 psi you do not need an intercooler, if you go over 6 psi it is advised to get one. If you want to turbocharge, read the "HOW TO: INSTALLING A TURBO" sticky by Dave.
Superchargers make their power in direct correlation to engine rpm, but they always make, and take, some power. The upside is, there is no lag with them, they do drain more engine power though, and are harder to fabricate than a turbocharger setup, but they also don't require an intercooler(I believe) If you want to supercharge your engine, I have heard the easiest and cheapest option is to find an M90 from a ford thunderbird, I myself do not know what all goes into it though.
Generally a matter of preference which you choose.
Last but not least is nitrous oxide, while not technically boost, this is where I am putting it, essentially nitrous oxide puts more oxygen into the engine, which means more power. kits are readily available, it is relatively easy to install, and cheap, $150-500 depending on where you get it, and if its used or new, if you want quick power, this is the single best way to get it, if you don't care about having it for more than a few seconds, 200 shot has been done on stock internals, but personally I would stick to 150 tops, 100 shot is the most that should be used frequently imo. There are two different types of setup, one is dry kit, the other is wet, the difference is dry just injects nitrous into the intake system, wet kit injects nitrous AND extra fuel, it is more safe, and less likely to encounter detonation, but also more expensive, and generally not necessary for lower levels of it, if you have proper tuning. Last but not least, you should only use nitrous oxide at WOT(wide open throttle, aka petal to the metal) and its also not legal to drive on the street with the system connected, it can be in the car, just not hooked up if memory serves, that might vary state to state though.
That concludes my thread, hopefully this well help those of you on a quest for more power and knowledge, and I also hope(hint hint) this gets made into a sticky.
Then boost is your friend, boost means higher than atmosphere pressure, basically you're force feeding your engine air, think of it like this, N/A is drinking through a straw, but boost is like shoving a garden hose in your mouth. Any time you boost an engine, you need to upgrade your fuel supply, and do ECM tuning.
Unfortunately there are no aftermarket supercharging or turbocharging kits available, some people say there are, I HAVE searched for them, and never found any, there are universal turbocharging kits though I believe, and if you are very very very lucky, you might find an old supercharger, they were briefly made by a couple companies, but they are VERY rare.
*Turbocharging vs supercharging, they each have their pros and cons:
Turbochargers use little engine power, can make more boost, are generally cheaper and easier to setup, and make power when you romp on it, and not when you're cruising around. on the downside, they drastically raise under the hood temperature, and are have a little bit of lag. If you stay under 6 psi you do not need an intercooler, if you go over 6 psi it is advised to get one. If you want to turbocharge, read the "HOW TO: INSTALLING A TURBO" sticky by Dave.
Superchargers make their power in direct correlation to engine rpm, but they always make, and take, some power. The upside is, there is no lag with them, they do drain more engine power though, and are harder to fabricate than a turbocharger setup, but they also don't require an intercooler(I believe) If you want to supercharge your engine, I have heard the easiest and cheapest option is to find an M90 from a ford thunderbird, I myself do not know what all goes into it though.
Generally a matter of preference which you choose.
Last but not least is nitrous oxide, while not technically boost, this is where I am putting it, essentially nitrous oxide puts more oxygen into the engine, which means more power. kits are readily available, it is relatively easy to install, and cheap, $150-500 depending on where you get it, and if its used or new, if you want quick power, this is the single best way to get it, if you don't care about having it for more than a few seconds, 200 shot has been done on stock internals, but personally I would stick to 150 tops, 100 shot is the most that should be used frequently imo. There are two different types of setup, one is dry kit, the other is wet, the difference is dry just injects nitrous into the intake system, wet kit injects nitrous AND extra fuel, it is more safe, and less likely to encounter detonation, but also more expensive, and generally not necessary for lower levels of it, if you have proper tuning. Last but not least, you should only use nitrous oxide at WOT(wide open throttle, aka petal to the metal) and its also not legal to drive on the street with the system connected, it can be in the car, just not hooked up if memory serves, that might vary state to state though.
That concludes my thread, hopefully this well help those of you on a quest for more power and knowledge, and I also hope(hint hint) this gets made into a sticky.
10-02-2010, 08:06 PM
#6
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
First off 3rd gen RS...AMAZING THREAD!
SOMEONE PLEASE STICKY THIS!!
Hopefully, someone out there will read this before asking that ABOMINABLE QUESTION: "Hey, how do I make more power out of my 2.8/3.1L V6?"!!
You hear me?! READ THIS FIRST! DO IT NOW!
Now, if I may add...
This is the best thread I've seen on swapping in a 4.3L V6:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-4-3-swap.html
There is more you can do with a manual transmission. BUT...it does have to be a World Class T5:
http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp
This rebuild should be enough to handle just about any practical power-level than can be achieved with a 60* V6.
Also, not all crankshafts in the 3500 LX9 are forged. Some are, some aren't. If I remember correctly, the first four digits of the crankshaft need to be 7484 if you want a forged unit. If I'm wrong on that number, someone please correct me...
SOMEONE PLEASE STICKY THIS!!
Hopefully, someone out there will read this before asking that ABOMINABLE QUESTION: "Hey, how do I make more power out of my 2.8/3.1L V6?"!!
You hear me?! READ THIS FIRST! DO IT NOW!
Now, if I may add...
This is the best thread I've seen on swapping in a 4.3L V6:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-4-3-swap.html
There is more you can do with a manual transmission. BUT...it does have to be a World Class T5:
http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-5.asp
This rebuild should be enough to handle just about any practical power-level than can be achieved with a 60* V6.
Also, not all crankshafts in the 3500 LX9 are forged. Some are, some aren't. If I remember correctly, the first four digits of the crankshaft need to be 7484 if you want a forged unit. If I'm wrong on that number, someone please correct me...
10-02-2010, 08:13 PM
#7
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Thanks for the compliment and additional info.
Trending Topics
10-02-2010, 09:38 PM
#8
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
just so you know. you convinced me to keep my 6.
i was expecting a ridiculous amount of money to make a 6 have any pep at all
but this looks like a good project to put into action
and it also seems like the car can still be a daily driver?
sounds good to me bro
i was expecting a ridiculous amount of money to make a 6 have any pep at all
but this looks like a good project to put into action
and it also seems like the car can still be a daily driver?
sounds good to me bro
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88coupedoop (04-16-2020)
10-02-2010, 09:48 PM
#9
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
It's all about which route you go, and what you want your end result, but hopefully I gave you the info necessary to figure that out. Need any tips/advice or help figuring out which route is best, let me know.
10-02-2010, 09:51 PM
#10
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
As for daily driver, generally, for the #s I listed N/A, and N/A hybrid, take about 50 hp off and thats about what you should be able to hit doing the simpler and more common mods while retaining streetability, maybe more, its really about how you build it, biggest thing that will affect driveability though is camshaft size, and velocity stacks/ITBs, which I'm about to add in as I forgot to include them in my list. All that being said, do you have a hp goal in mind?
10-02-2010, 11:17 PM
#11
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
well right now i'm running the stock 2.8l
i'm a 18 year old kid in jersey my income level isn't that great
so i know my dreams of huge hp numbers are pretty impossible.
i'm follwing your first step
and doing the wai, high flow cat, exhaust and headers.
how much of a boost will that give me.
i wanna keep the car as a daily driver
but also make it a head turner
be able to beat some of the stock 4cyl ricers
ya know?
i'm a 18 year old kid in jersey my income level isn't that great
so i know my dreams of huge hp numbers are pretty impossible.
i'm follwing your first step
and doing the wai, high flow cat, exhaust and headers.
how much of a boost will that give me.
i wanna keep the car as a daily driver
but also make it a head turner
be able to beat some of the stock 4cyl ricers
ya know?
10-03-2010, 12:51 AM
#12
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Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro
Engine: 2.8L V6 soon to be 3.4
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Wow 3rd gen, since that first post I've been holding back on saying what a freaking amazing thread. This will--hopefully--solve so many problems, as well as give people a basic ground on modding their cars. This needs to be a sticky and good job bro, I myself read through the entire thing and learned a lot, and that comes after asking a bunch of these questions myself.
10-03-2010, 01:19 AM
#13
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Car: '88 GTA, '89, '94 Firebird, '84 T/A
Engine: 5.0L TPI (GTA); '89 -2.8; '94 -3.4
Transmission: 5 speed (for all 3),auto for T/A
Axle/Gears: 3.45 (GTA only)
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Great thread as well and should be a sticky. I do have to say that if you have headers, the Air Pump does not fit well and has to be deleted. If you need to leave it in place for cosmetic reasons then fine.
I went through emissions testing last week and my numbers haven't changed in two years - with no Air Pump and following a major build.
I went through emissions testing last week and my numbers haven't changed in two years - with no Air Pump and following a major build.
Last edited by GTA50; 10-03-2010 at 01:22 AM.
10-03-2010, 01:24 AM
#14
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
So it can be ignored like all the rest of the excellent informative stickies, in all forums, by people to stupid to read them 
If 15 of the same posts on the first page of a forum doesn't prevent repetitive posts because people are to lazy to even scroll down a page, let alone read, a sticky stands no chance... except to those who truly want to learn or do....
10-03-2010, 01:58 AM
#15
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Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro
Engine: 2.8L V6 soon to be 3.4
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Indeed, but when the thread is made asking the question a quick and simple link to this thread should suffice.
10-03-2010, 01:12 PM
#16
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
well right now i'm running the stock 2.8l
i'm a 18 year old kid in jersey my income level isn't that great
so i know my dreams of huge hp numbers are pretty impossible.
i'm follwing your first step
and doing the wai, high flow cat, exhaust and headers.
how much of a boost will that give me.
i wanna keep the car as a daily driver
but also make it a head turner
be able to beat some of the stock 4cyl ricers
ya know?
i'm a 18 year old kid in jersey my income level isn't that great
so i know my dreams of huge hp numbers are pretty impossible.
i'm follwing your first step
and doing the wai, high flow cat, exhaust and headers.
how much of a boost will that give me.
i wanna keep the car as a daily driver
but also make it a head turner
be able to beat some of the stock 4cyl ricers
ya know?
Oh and not only do they boost power a bit, but your engine will be a lot more responsive, and have a broader stronger powerband as well.
10-03-2010, 03:50 PM
#17
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
http://thirdgenmods.firebirdv6.com/coldair.html
that be a better option?
that be a better option?
10-03-2010, 03:51 PM
#18
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Yes, that would be better than a filter mounted directly on the throttlebody.
10-03-2010, 03:57 PM
#19
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
well i just ordered all the parts necessary to do the full exhaust, and intake
for the exhaust, cat converter, air filter, and headers
it ran me a little shy of 800 dollars.
can't wait to get it on and hear her purr.
for the exhaust, cat converter, air filter, and headers
it ran me a little shy of 800 dollars.
can't wait to get it on and hear her purr.
10-03-2010, 03:57 PM
#20
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Car: 1986 Chevrolet Camaro
Engine: 2.8L V6 soon to be 3.4
Transmission: 700R4 soon to be WC t5
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Wait, does your car have the dual snorkel option? Just asking before you go through some pain.
10-03-2010, 04:15 PM
#22
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
oh and one more question.
would it be worth replacing my stock injectors with
http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...2_3_1_TPi.html
?
would i need to tune the engine at all or would it be a simple switch and make the idle and response a little cleaner and better?
would it be worth replacing my stock injectors with
http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...2_3_1_TPi.html
?
would i need to tune the engine at all or would it be a simple switch and make the idle and response a little cleaner and better?
10-03-2010, 04:30 PM
#23
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Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Its not necessary, but it would help a little, for 15 lbs you shouldn't need to tune the ecm, if its a small enough increase on a non stock car, you can get away without tuning, up to a certain point. Anyone know stock 2.8 injector #/hr rate offhand? Btw not sure if you plan to do the exhaust yourself, but I believe some of the stuff has to be welded, though I might be wrong, also you have to remove the panhard bar to get the intermediate(big long pipe) in, and did you get a heated o2 sensor? Some people don't and don't have issues, but others that get headers and keep their one wire o2 sensor have issues and have to get heated ones. And chances are you have the exact same exhaust as me, dynomax catback, pacesetter headers, and magnaflow cat, car is in the shop getting that installed along with some other work done to it, Can't wait to see what the new exhaust sounds like, I've only heard my engine run open headers so far, anxiously hoping it sounds good with a full exhaust on it. Also hoping my car can do this or better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuzQW...e=mfu_in_order
He had a little more mods than me, but I also have .3 litres more than he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuzQW...e=mfu_in_order
He had a little more mods than me, but I also have .3 litres more than he did.
10-03-2010, 04:41 PM
#24
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
My car is also getting fitted with the exact same exhaust, on top of the 3.4 and manual tranny going in sometime in the next two weeks. Now that you mention the heated O2 sensor, any links for that 3rd gen? Seems like something I'd be interested in.
10-03-2010, 04:50 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Any universal 3 or 4 wire would do, only difference is the 4 wire has an extra ground, just get the 3 wire and keep it simple, one is the sensor wire, one is for the heater juice wire, and the third is a ground wire. But as far as where to get one, I got the cheapest 3 wire from summit, I think it was a catco one, was like $55 or so. Once I get my car back I'm going to shoot an exhaust clip and some other videos and post them on youtube.
10-03-2010, 05:15 PM
#26
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Holy crap that's a long couple of posts! Let me add a few links and toot my horn at the same time. I swear I don't have an ego problem, I just can't remember other threads lol.
Looking for some tuning options? Check it out.
Need full length headers? Here you go.
Just want some more compression? Simple.
Weak slushbox trans got you down? We can fix that too.
Trying to figure out how to put together a hybrid? Here's mine.
Need DIS igntion for that hybrid? Look!
Absolutely need roller everything? WEEE!
I swear I don't have an ego problem, I just can't remember other threads lol.Looking for some tuning options? Check it out.
Need full length headers? Here you go.
Just want some more compression? Simple.
Weak slushbox trans got you down? We can fix that too.
Trying to figure out how to put together a hybrid? Here's mine.
Need DIS igntion for that hybrid? Look!
Absolutely need roller everything? WEEE!
Last edited by bl85c; 10-04-2010 at 11:59 AM.
10-03-2010, 06:26 PM
#27
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Car: 2003 Hyundai Tiburon GT
Engine: 2.7L V6
Transmission: 6-speed
Axle/Gears: 4.41
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
A little bit of input here:
Stock fuel injectors on the 2.8 were either 14.7 or 15.4# depending on the year, so 15# injectors is right in the middle and shouldn't cause issues unless one is clogged or has electrical problems.
Best bet for the exhaust is to get the whole kit and kaboodle welded together. However, this will make removal, if necessary, pretty difficult, although it should be the best way to prevent exhaust leaks. Do NOT weld or have the catalytic converter flange cut off or welded together. Yes, the track bar AND brace have to be lowered, and it may be best to also lower the rear axle as well for additional clearance if you don't have access to a lift. Probably also best to mark each pipe as it's installed, to maintain proper alignment when clamps/bolts/welds are added, as the pipes shouldn't be clamped and what not until all the pipes are in place and body clearances checked.
:edit: Found it... Here's a link to a thread with all sorts of V6 exhaust clips. Headers, non-headers with catback, gutted cats, stock pipes with non-stock mufflers, you name it, it's there. All brands and styles of muffler.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...fflers-v6.html
Stock fuel injectors on the 2.8 were either 14.7 or 15.4# depending on the year, so 15# injectors is right in the middle and shouldn't cause issues unless one is clogged or has electrical problems.
Best bet for the exhaust is to get the whole kit and kaboodle welded together. However, this will make removal, if necessary, pretty difficult, although it should be the best way to prevent exhaust leaks. Do NOT weld or have the catalytic converter flange cut off or welded together. Yes, the track bar AND brace have to be lowered, and it may be best to also lower the rear axle as well for additional clearance if you don't have access to a lift. Probably also best to mark each pipe as it's installed, to maintain proper alignment when clamps/bolts/welds are added, as the pipes shouldn't be clamped and what not until all the pipes are in place and body clearances checked.
:edit: Found it... Here's a link to a thread with all sorts of V6 exhaust clips. Headers, non-headers with catback, gutted cats, stock pipes with non-stock mufflers, you name it, it's there. All brands and styles of muffler.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...fflers-v6.html
Last edited by Maverick H1L; 10-03-2010 at 06:32 PM.
10-03-2010, 07:40 PM
#28
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Btw a note on WAI vs. CAI, with the filter on my throttle body in my buick, once the engine heated up it felt more like it did pre cone filter, so air temperature definitely has an effect on it, it always pulled harder on short 5m drives, or 5m into a long drive, but half an hour in was always less peppy.
10-03-2010, 08:41 PM
#29
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Brilliant! Good job. I've long thought about making one of these threads (even though I'm no expert) just to help n00bs and cut down on clutter.
I've got it sitting half-complete in a Word file, ready to copy and paste. Mine has pics though.
This must have taken some time....
Oh, aluminum lug nuts can be found for $35 on eBay. I've got some. Sheds a lil over 1 lb. Titanium lug nuts are even lighter, but $400+.
I've got it sitting half-complete in a Word file, ready to copy and paste. Mine has pics though.
This must have taken some time....
Oh, aluminum lug nuts can be found for $35 on eBay. I've got some. Sheds a lil over 1 lb. Titanium lug nuts are even lighter, but $400+.
Last edited by jensen73110; 10-03-2010 at 08:46 PM.
10-03-2010, 08:49 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Took like an hour or two,lol. One thing I never could find was titanium wheel studs, though I am sure they could be made, and they can be found for some cars I think, aluminum is too weak for studs sadly.
10-04-2010, 11:51 AM
#31
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Can anyone throw me the name of a mod I can ask to make this a sticky?
10-04-2010, 11:58 AM
#32
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
2_point8_boy of course. I vote for sticky!
Last edited by bl85c; 10-04-2010 at 12:01 PM.
vote sticky
10-04-2010, 12:05 PM
#34
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Our sticky list is starting to look like the tbi board lol.
--> Sticky! 
10-08-2010, 09:01 PM
#40
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS 25th Anniversary
Engine: 3.4L v6 with a t3/t4 Turbo
Transmission: T-5 Conversion
Axle/Gears: 3.23 SLP Limited Slip
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
lol did anyone press the little report button? that would probably help, the mods of this board i dont think are on here much. if its gonna be a sticky all the extra posts need to be gotten rid of though
10-13-2010, 11:05 PM
#41
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Car: 90 Camaro RS
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
I'll Vote sticky also and I think this thread would also be a great thread to point people who want to look more into the hybrid and I think you would agree being it's one of your.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...e-beefing.html
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/v6/5...e-beefing.html
10-14-2010, 05:36 AM
#42
Supreme Member
Thread Starter
Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Well I plan to do another guide on it, since at that time I was going to build one but then went another route, kind of waiting till I build one myself to do the writeup.
10-25-2010, 10:43 AM
#43
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Car: 1988 camaro
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
11-09-2010, 09:26 PM
#44
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
just to add... there is one more type of N2O setup... a direct port system. IIRC it replaces the fuel injectors with new ones that are setup to spray nitrous. just thought i would share this info.
11-11-2010, 10:47 AM
#45
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Are you thinking of the system that uses an adapter under the injector that feeds extra fuel and N20 ?
11-30-2010, 10:42 PM
#47
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
That's because it devolved into a discussion, as threads usually do.
03-09-2011, 12:59 AM
#48
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
Wow that took me 2 hrs to read. I say Sticky Sticky Sticky.
I need to get busy and try to do some of these mods.....
I need to get busy and try to do some of these mods.....
.
03-17-2011, 11:35 PM
#50
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Re: How to get the most power/speed out of your v6 car
now that its a sticcky, lets delete all the comments asking to make it a sticky shall we? its difficult to find useful comments after al those O.o
great thread btw (delete this too while your at it) lol
I will be using this post often because i'm into auto body, so when it comes to gears and air flow, i'm a doofus, so this is like the idiot book to me
great thread btw (delete this too while your at it) lol
I will be using this post often because i'm into auto body, so when it comes to gears and air flow, i'm a doofus, so this is like the idiot book to me
