Power AdderGetting a Supercharger or Turbocharger? Thinking about using Nitrous? All forced induction and N2O topics discussed here.
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yeah play nice, there are alot of members here that have stangs AND imports, I believe he is welcome in power adder as long as his posts are power adder related
Originally posted by B4Ctom1 yeah play nice, there are alot of members here that have stangs AND imports, I believe he is welcome in power adder as long as his posts are power adder related
Originally posted by Camaro_nut Anyone have a remote mounted turbo setup?
Not an F-Body, but a remote mount turbo system none-the-less. I fabbed this system to test the remote mount theory. System was fabbed in less than two days. Judge its worth by my results:
*Daily driver 89 Z24
*Stock 179k mile 2.8V6
*Two stages of boost 6psi and 10psi
Stage I Best- 14.6@96mph, 2.2 60'
Stage II Best- 13.9@99mph. 2.1 60'
I was happy with the results, but the '326RWHP' Turbocharged Lexus IS300 I raced the other evening was not! I love putting a $30k car to shame with an 89 Cavalier!
Originally posted by CamarosRUS so what exactly is a remote mount setup? that looks sweet as anything but ive never heard of or seen that before!!!
It's deisgned to be installed directly off the cat back exhaust
system. What this does is help reduce the high engine exhaust
temps down and help increase the performance and longivity of
the turbo. So, moving the turbo to the back under the car from
the engine compartment does two things: 1) clean up the
engine bay, or less clutter and 2) keep the turbo from heating
up to the point where it glows red under WOT 1/4 mile passes.
The "cons" side is: 1) more plumbing to run from the front to the
back, which on a thirdgen is difficult to do with a torque arm
suspension in the way. 2.) It will be more exposed to water and
debris under the car.
As far as any more "cons" on this system, I don't know. Ask
someone like 89JYturbo that has done it. And from the results,
it's well worth the project, and very little cons. But it's for the
person with skills and knowledge of turbos and such if you
want to make the system yourself. There are remote systems
prefabbed and "bolt on" ready for you, but very few at this time.
You will see more of this setup down the road, as engine bays
get tighter and even better designs for this remote mounted
system develop.
They actually just came out with a complete remote mounted
turbo kit for the 98-02 LS1 F body! Which is cool ,because
there is very little room to play with under the hood.
Here's the link below to help you understand more of this
"new turbo" system: http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/in...?v=1&pid=20131
Most of the above info is correct, but the reason for mounting the turbo remotely is not to keep the turbo cool. The turbo is designed for the high heat conditions present in the standard exhaust manifold mounted applications. The reason we mount the turbo remotely is for (as mentioned) space concerns. My cavalier would have room in the engine compartment for a standard turbo system, but it would take major modifications to the exhaust manifolds, relocation of several parts (battery, heater hoses, cruise control servo, A/C lines etc, etc). Since this was my daily driver, major mods like these were not an option. This system is simple to build, I made mine in two days- quite possibly could be done in even one day if I did it again. Here is a list of the pros and cons as I see them:
Remotoe Mount Turbo Systems PROS:
1) Easy, quick installation with minor mods to engine compartment
2) Long charge pipe to engine from rear mounted turbos acts as an intercooler (cool air moving over pipe helps keep charge temps down without the restriction of an intercooler)
3) Less heat in the engine compartment to melt wires, etc.
4) Better turbo sound- turbo is right near tailpipe, so the turbo whistle is unmistakeable- scares those imports!!
5) Good performance value- system can be built cheaply
CONS:
1)Not as efficient- hot exhaust gases near the engine have very high velocity which helps to spool the turbo- when mounted so far from the engine, there is less heat to help kick up turbine speeds. As a result of this, backpressure is increased by using a smaller turbine housing than ideal to help recoupe some lost response
2) Oiling system is more complex- engine oil pressure is fed all the way to the rear of the car, then an electric scavenge pump is used to pump the oil front to the engine (the electric pump is an additional source of possible failure)
3) Slower response- this is minor when the turbo is sized smaller than what would otherwise be ideal
4) Contrary to what many think, there is no problem with the water or other road debris hitting the turbo. I listed this as a con simply because it is a percieved problem. We had the wettest summer on record in my area, and this car went thru all of the messy roads, as it is my daily driver. Of course, you wouldn't want to drive thru standing water, as the air filter is only 12" off the ground. But such is the case with a lot of cold air intakes (think off those kits for Civics and 4th gen f-body's!).
Originally posted by 89JYturbo Most of the above info is correct, but the reason for mounting the turbo remotely is not to keep the turbo cool. The turbo is designed for the high heat conditions present in the standard exhaust manifold mounted applications. The reason we mount the turbo remotely is for (as mentioned) space concerns. My cavalier would have room in the engine compartment for a standard turbo system, but it would take major modifications to the exhaust manifolds, relocation of several parts (battery, heater hoses, cruise control servo, A/C lines etc, etc). Since this was my daily driver, major mods like these were not an option. This system is simple to build, I made mine in two days- quite possibly could be done in even one day if I did it again. Here is a list of the pros and cons as I see them:
Remotoe Mount Turbo Systems PROS:
1) Easy, quick installation with minor mods to engine compartment
2) Long charge pipe to engine from rear mounted turbos acts as an intercooler (cool air moving over pipe helps keep charge temps down without the restriction of an intercooler)
3) Less heat in the engine compartment to melt wires, etc.
4) Lower cost
5)Better turbo sound- turbo is right near tailpipe, so the turbo whistle is unmistakeable- scares those imports!!
6) Good performance value
CONS:
1)Not as efficient- hot exhaust gases near the engine have very high velocity which helps to spool the turbo- when mounted so far from the engine, there is less heat to help kick up turbine speeds. As a result of this, backpressure is increased by using a smaller turbine housing than ideal to help recoupe some lost response
2) Oiling system is more complex- engine oil pressure is fed all the way to the rear of the car, then an electric scavenge pump is used to pump the oil front to the engine (the electric pump is an dditional source of possible failure)
3) Slower response- this is minor when the turbo is sized smaller than what would otherwise be ideal
Hope this helps to clear things up.
I figured that it would have more turbo lag since it doesn't
spool up as fast as the engine mounted ones right off the
exhaust manifold or header. My boss has a twin turbo Nissan
300ZX. I learn how they work from that. Now as far as the turbo
running cooler, I meant that since the exhaust gases are much
cooler back there under the car than the front, that would make
the turbo less chance of heating up as much. Hence cutting
down on the engine compartment heat, also will cut down
on the chance of an engine fire due to the high heat.
You are absolutely right about the way the turbo is designed
to work off high exhaust heat to work efficiently. However, with
the right turbine size, turbo diameter, and some way control
the lag, exhaust flow and exhaust speed with a controller/timer
unit, I bet it could run as efficient as the engine mounted ones.
But now we are talking more electrcial parts, controller to
mount somewhere in the cockpit, an exhaust temp gauge
and exhaust velocity gauge, and probably another $2,000.00
for something I just made up! Or did I? I don't know. I just
type what's on my mind!
There are pros and cons to either system, just like pros
and cons to superchargers vs. turbos.
Originally posted by Camaro_nut Yes, true...UNFORTUNATELY!!!!
You think just because I bought a car that was designed by another country that my information about FI will be any less quality than anyone else in here? I can already tell that I know more than you do.
Quote:
Originally posted by Camaro_nut You are absolutely right about the way the turbo is designed
to work off high exhaust heat to work efficiently. However, with
the right turbine size, turbo diameter, and some way control
the lag, exhaust flow and exhaust speed with a controller/timer
unit, I bet it could run as efficient as the engine mounted ones.
But now we are talking more electrcial parts, controller to
mount somewhere in the cockpit, an exhaust temp gauge
and exhaust velocity gauge, and probably another $2,000.00
for something I just made up! Or did I? I don't know. I just
type what's on my mind!
There are pros and cons to either system, just like pros
and cons to superchargers vs. turbos.
There is no device that can make up for what you lose by mounting the turbo so far away from the head. It's just like displacement, there is no replacement for it. You can do things to increase flow (like add forced induction) but you will never get the same results as if you started out with a larger engine in the first place.
Putting the turbo at the back of the car will cause a higher initial boost threshold and extra lag. Using a smaller turbo isn't a fix-it for the extra lag you will have, it's not even a band-aid in my opinion. If you just throw a smaller turbo in your car, you'll just be increasing the chance of running out of its effeciency range. Besides, as long as you stay in boost when you shift, then lag shouldn't really be an issue.
The other things I don't like about this set-up are the increased complexity of the oil return line and the length of the charge pipe. I personally don't think it's worth the extra effort for the oil line by itself.
I realize that having a long charge pipe is going to lose some heat, but I don't think it would ever be able to compete with an intercooler.
The only thing I'm undecided about with this set-up, is if the length of the charge pipe would actually make much of a difference as far as lag goes. because on my particular set-up, from the compressor to the throttle body is easily over six feet. So if I put the turbo about in the middle of the car, I bet the charge pipe length would be about the same if I ran it up to the TB as directly as I could. Of course, with the addition of an IC, it'd of course be longer.
I do have one question for the guy with this set-up though. Do you just run the cat before the turbo? At first I figured that you couldn't pass emissions with this set-up, but if you have the cat before the turbo, I don't see why not.
Oops, 89JYturbo, one more question. For the vacuum source for the wastegate, do you just have to buy a compressor housing with the vacuum nipple on it? Or do you just run a long *** vacuum line up to the intake manifold?
I don't want to hijack this thread- please visit this thread I started earlier on this site about my system- I posted a response to your above post there:
It was a joke, lighten up. I wasn't the first to say
a comment about your car either!
Remember this post?????..............
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by thirdgen88
Isn't there somewhere else you could be?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, and I totally agree with him! Now since you disrespected
me AND this board!
As far as my knowledge, you know more than me on turbos.
And I NEVER mentioned anything about me knowing more
than you. So, you are flaming at me for NO reason! Thanks
very much for that. Thanks for the
As far as my comments on the remote system, it was mostly
just stuff I suggested and that's it. Nothing factual. I kid
around alot so it may rub off on threads here once in
a while, can you tell??? You have to when working on
cars, SUVs and trucks for a living.
By the way, I work for Toyota and I have been in the auto
business enough to know that I fix other techs' come backs
and give advice. So, as far as you knowing more than me,
maybe or maybe not. I can't say for sure because I DON'T
know you, and guess what? You DON'T KNOW ME EITHER! lol
On turbos, YES you know more, on anything else as far as
imports, I know enough to diagnose and fix almost every
Toyota, or anything Toyota related ( Scion, Lexus, etc.)
Also worked for Ford for over 5 years. That trip was to hell
and back.
Originally posted by anesthes Know anything about ford auto tranny's? (i.e, 01-02 focus)
-- Joe
Not much. I left Ford back in early 2001 when the Focus
started to become popular. I have done about 7 recalls on
them back in the day. As far as known problems with the
Focus autos, no. Ford auto trans. in general ARE junk.
To be bruetally honest, they are. I have worked on the
Econoline, Probe, Taurus, Windstar, Ranger and Mustang
auto and standard trans. ALL are built with poor quality
parts made to last 100K IF your lucky AND drive with
a lightfoot! Trust me, from experience, most Fords are
built last like 100K and that's it. Really. Most are not
made to withstand the abuse and time, wear and tear
of today. This is from 4-5 years ago, however. Most of the
major problems with the Taurus/Windstar/Sable autos
was the forward clutch piston. This is the initial "take off"
part in 1st gear. This item transfers the pressure off of
the throttle valve to activate the 1st gear movement
by pressing against the forward gear clutch assembly.
This item was first replaced with an "improved" part but
never really made any more differently than the original.
Over the years (1996-2001) this item became more improved
but took time because Ford is cheap and stupid.
As far as of 2001 and beyond vehicles, I can't comment on
Ford, Lincoln and Mercury because I don't work on those, nor
have I ever needed to. I am sure they improved those
vehicles over time, but don't think they can still be as good
as a Toyota. Sorry, but Ford will NEVER be on the same quality
horizon as Toyota. Never. Experience talking here on owning and
working on Fords and owning and working on Toyotas.
Originally posted by Camaro_nut Not much. I left Ford back in early 2001 when the Focus
started to become popular. I have done about 7 recalls on
them back in the day. As far as known problems with the
Focus autos, no. Ford auto trans. in general ARE junk.
To be bruetally honest, they are. I have worked on the
Econoline, Probe, Taurus, Windstar, Ranger and Mustang
auto and standard trans. ALL are built with poor quality
parts made to last 100K IF your lucky AND drive with
a lightfoot! Trust me, from experience, most Fords are
built last like 100K and that's it. Really. Most are not
made to withstand the abuse and time, wear and tear
of today. This is from 4-5 years ago, however. Most of the
major problems with the Taurus/Windstar/Sable autos
was the forward clutch piston. This is the initial "take off"
part in 1st gear. This item transfers the pressure off of
the throttle valve to activate the 1st gear movement
by pressing against the forward gear clutch assembly.
This item was first replaced with an "improved" part but
never really made any more differently than the original.
Over the years (1996-2001) this item became more improved
but took time because Ford is cheap and stupid.
As far as of 2001 and beyond vehicles, I can't comment on
Ford, Lincoln and Mercury because I don't work on those, nor
have I ever needed to. I am sure they improved those
vehicles over time, but don't think they can still be as good
as a Toyota. Sorry, but Ford will NEVER be on the same quality
horizon as Toyota. Never. Experience talking here on owning and
working on Fords and owning and working on Toyotas.
Well. Problem we have..
OD died.. When it shifts into od, within like 90 seconds it goes into neutral.
Pops a DTC "shift solenoid malfunction solenoid A"
Changed A.. no difference.
Now, in 3rd, at about 60 (with OD off) it will pop into neutral.
Originally posted by stu I get defensive when people try to judge my worth based soley on what I choose to drive.
Well, I can understand that. Being in your shoes, owning
a turbo Integra and coming here to a thirdgen F body based
website is not easy. Like I said, some of us thirdgen owners
usually don't like the import stuff. But of course, within rules
and restrictions, your more than welcome to be here.
I never judged your worth based soley on your car. That's
ridiculous. Like I said, people here love to hate the imports.
I am one of them, I will admit. But, I do respect you, believe
it or not. Just that I hate imports, not you. So, don't take
that comment or comments about your car too hard.
Otherwise, people here will CONSTANTLY flame you to
no end! Word of advise here, it happened before, and will
happen again. There are thousands of members here!
99% of them are thirdgen F body owners.
Just like when someone calls my Camaro a M ull et machine
I get hostile! I love the thirdgen Camaro. I grew up in the
80s and 90s with the F bodies, and it's my first car. I get
attached to it. Just like you get attached to your Integra,
I'm sure.
Originally posted by anesthes Well. Problem we have..
OD died.. When it shifts into od, within like 90 seconds it goes into neutral.
Pops a DTC "shift solenoid malfunction solenoid A"
Changed A.. no difference.
Now, in 3rd, at about 60 (with OD off) it will pop into neutral.
And second to third shift slips.
Ugg..
Sounds like a new tranny time.
-- Joe
Yeah, sounds like that trans. had seen better days! Get
another, or have the blown one in there taken apart
by a Ford trans. specialist to see what caused the problem,
and then have it rebuilt. It's up to you. But sounds like you
have multiple problems within the trans. Could be pressure
related. It should get properly diagnosed BEFORE just replacing
the trans! I bad trans. cooler or resricted lines could cause
premature failure. And if that is the source of the failed trans,
the new or rebuilt one you put in will break down prematurely
again! I just remembered something! I think that those Focuses
had problems with the trans. cooler lines staying tight! Check
to see if the trans cooler lines got kinked, loose, lost fluid,etc.!
Originally posted by Guido Hey! Get back to posting pics! LOL
Discuss in other threads.
yea.... i want to see pics.. pics pics..
discuss the remote mount turbo in one of the other billion threads debating it... its not new, its been out almost 5 years now, its just that they're advertising now.
I don't want to hijack this thread- please visit this thread I started earlier on this site about my system- I posted a response to your above post there:
Originally posted by JMatlock88 That is really nice..wow. Can a 9 psi AFR195 355 actually yield 650rwhp? I'd really like to know the cam you're running.
You must have been looking at my old combo spec's.
New combo, 210 afr regular ports, comp cam, D-1 15lbs at 6400 rpm
Although i did make a honest 475 RWHP with a 700r4, and a 2.5 full exhaust with 9lbs of p600 on pump gas
Originally posted by B4Ctom1 still curious about the cam
Now Tom, You know i don't post cam specs on line. I will give this up, its a custom comp 4/7 swap solid. and I only take it to 6800.It is also the 4th cam I have run in this car this year.
I have a real nice Hydraulic roller for sale that will make 550 to the wheels with 14lbs of boost on pump gas on a 355/afr195. $350 with stock style comp lifters. 12 dyno runs and 20 pases at the track.
they are a very quiet headunit but, they do hit there limit very quick and they will eat belts and bearings when pushed too far or even close to the limit.
the 90's are a problem and I am sure they are costing me some boost. mostly the exhaust pipe one. (it has a cheapo pinch bend) I will get a mandrel u-bend and weld it all up so I only have the one pipe running to the throttle body bend. but, for now it allows me to get my water injection nozzel in the right spot.
I will have to go back and take a look at your setup. I have been thinking of using the holley stealth ram int. I think it will help clear the alt. better since it is a little taller than the tpi.
Originally posted by Dan8289gta Heres a pic of my power adders. Custom ram air 50 hp, custom spoiler 75 hp, custom skull and crossbones 20 hp, custom painted wheels 15 hp per wheel.
Give me 4 and the Hit, Ill race you across a intersection!
