ATI's Twin Hi-Flow Intercooler System on a Third Gen? Stay Tuned... - Page 2 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

mypontiac · 08-01-2002, 06:50 PM

Sorry. Yes, that is the correct one.

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Gta-Paladin · 08-04-2002, 09:21 PM

that looks top notch willie!!

mypontiac · 08-05-2002, 11:01 PM

OK Guys.

Guess you won't hear from me for about a month or so. I placed the order today for the kit to be installed on my 1991 TA.

Figure with processing time and delivery it will be about a month to my door. Then I will need to figure out the install.

I will post again as soon as I have some great news!

85maroz28 · 08-09-2002, 01:24 AM

Just one thing Willie

You the MAN!!:hail: :hail:

CrazyHawaiian · 08-15-2002, 02:35 AM

First off I have to say Thanks Willie!! This is a great setup for those of us living in the warmer areas who want to use our A/C while doing 50 foot burnouts (it was a joke!). Good job on the R&D. I have one question though, how does it work out with the Blow Off Valves? Do you run two of them with the twin intercooled setup?

Gta-Paladin · 08-15-2002, 01:14 PM

i always thought they were per turbo.... In othe words if you had 1 turbo 1 wastegate and bov and no matter how many intercoolers you had it was still the same untill you introdced another turbo

Willie · 08-15-2002, 06:56 PM

The ATI system for third gens does not use a blowoff valve, it uses a surge valve. The difference? The surge valve is a butterfly valve that's installed in a 1-1/2" diameter hose that routes air from the compression side of the blower to the inlet side. This valve is open under normal driving conditions as the blower itself produces way more air than the engine uses. The open surge valve allows excess pressure between the blower and throttle body to escape. When in boost, the valve closes which allows maximum boost to be created.

The surge valve system is the same, regardless of intercooler setup.

Willie

CrazyHawaiian · 08-15-2002, 09:45 PM

Cool! I was just wondering what would be the best setup for performance purposes. Thanks again Willie!! I emailed Dave @ Tenacious Performance and he's gonne be helping me get a kit together. Looks Like I'll be going with the P-1SC compressor and the Twin-HiFlow IC System you've designed (I know the IC setup is a little overkill for that compressor but I really want to be safe because I will be roadracing the car). So, I had originally wanted to try a Turbo setup, but after really reading into the ProChargers and seeing your setup (A/C friends setup sounds really really good to me!) I have been converted!! I'll save the Turbo ideas for my next Camaro project. So now I need to get ready to rebuilt my L98 (90k miles it alot .. needs to be freshened up!). Thanks again Willie!!

So I guess the Supercharger Blow Off Valve vs Surge Valve is kind of like the Turbo's Blow Off Valve vs Bypass Valve.

Gta-Paladin · 08-15-2002, 10:57 PM

Crazy, looks like you're building something im building

I've got a 377 twin turbo'd Evo II, 4L80E, Road racing car in the works!
I've been following you in the boards for a while and have been watching what you're up to

(well not following per se... just noticing) Right now Im building an interior (4th Gen interior) Sparco seats, and wheel with an 8pt cage custom floor braces (a la Paladin racing) and then on to grafting a hi-po driveline to handle the 377.

It's going to be a race car with that show ability, i want to beat some of these imports on their own turf ( the shows)

CrazyHawaiian · 08-16-2002, 04:22 AM

Sweet!! Love to see other people with cool insane projects!! I was also thinking (while looking @ Willie's pics) that this might be a good intercooler setup for a Turbo application (like you're planning). Looks sweet!! I'll PM you about your project.

psycomaross · 09-08-2002, 08:06 PM

:hail: :hail: Willie

would this work on a Vortech T-Trim?

Kingtal0n · 09-25-2002, 03:28 PM

I've got a question, would a single 3-core intercooler be cheaper than the twin 2-core intercooler setup? The main difference, from what Im hearing, is the twin 2-core can keep your radiator from being blocked off... but which is cheaper?

TenaciousDB · 10-09-2002, 08:22 PM

Hey guys, this is Dave from Tenacious.

I figured I'd shed a little light on the status of the kit. I have a thread going on the forums on our website. Go to http://www.tenperf.com/forums and go into the ProCharger Tech forum. There's a thread in there with some info. Feel free to post any questions about the kit there, and I'll answer to the best of my knowledge. (Willies install, by the way, look just as good if not better than the 4th Gen installs I've seen.)

As far as the pricing goes, the pricing has been based on the price of the 4th Gen Twin High Flow (THF) setup. Compared to the 3-Core that comes with the complete D-1SC Kit, the THF has only been about $120 more. That's not bad! Downside is that I've been told that ATI is reworking the pricing for the 3rd Gen THF. Seems that based on Willie's part list the 3rd Gen setup contains more parts and is a little more expensive for them. I haven't received the updated pricing yet, as there is only ONE rep dealing with the setup. As stated above, the kit is unofficial an even ATI's sales manager doesn't have any information when I need it! The rep dealing with the setup is extremely busy, and prefers that anyone goes through a dealer instead of through him directly. He doesn't even take calls in the afternoon. I'm not certain, but I think ATI is only dealing with the 3rd Gen THF through me exclusively anyway. This isn't a plug for me, I'm just a gearhead like all you guys and I'm not a ProCharger distributor full time. I'm a UNIX tech most of the time.

If anyone wants exact pricing information, email me at dback@tenperf.com and I'll get it to you ASAP. You can get the kit separately (to work with your existing ProCharger setup) or have it included in your kit as a substitution for the 3-Core.

So far Sean and Tom (I don't know your guys forum names but I know you've probably posted in this thread) have also ordered D-1SC kits with the THF. Once they get theirs installed, we'll have a better idea how plug and play the parts list ATI is. I know they're making small changes here and there based on feeback from Willie and the other guys. I'll be posting updates in the thread on the Tenacious Forums.

Catch you all later,

Dave

TenaciousDB · 10-09-2002, 08:25 PM

By the way, any other ProCharger related question you guys may have, please post them in the forum on my board. I'm check it constantly and hope to build up a useful ATI knowledge base there.

Also, there's a separate forum for general Supercharging related questions. I myself and many close friends of mine have an abundance of supercharging knowledge (particular intercooled supercharging, which is IMO the only way to go). The forums is empty right now, but we're hoping to get that going. So spread the word!

Thanks guys,

Dave

88 WS6 TransAm GTA · 10-10-2002, 04:06 PM

Hey Tenacious... I see your right over in Voorheese. Once Im ready for mine, Ill go through you!

TenaciousDB · 10-10-2002, 04:18 PM

Sounds good! Shoot me an email sometime and we'll talk.. there's a car show this Sunday near us run by a Vette club. I'll have my Impala in there, and I'm sure there will be plenty of nice Vettes as well.

Dave

mypontiac · 10-10-2002, 10:21 PM

Anyone hear from Willie lately.

He was helping me with the install, but has not been responding to my e-mails.

Hope he is on vacation or something.

I've been making some progress on the install. Just getting it done in phases.

Intercoolers should be going on next.

Burn · 10-14-2002, 11:45 AM

Hey Willie,
I don't know if you remember me. I bought your Al. Heads way back when for on my 305. I still didn't get them on or anything done to the car that I wanted. This is because of my new toy that you guys dont really care about. 93 Stealth r/t TT Thats right I kinda jumped ship for a year or so. I now know more than I ever wanted to know about turbos and just wanted to say that the intercooler setup you have in the pic looks like a great setup!

poorboy8 · 11-02-2002, 05:07 AM

Any updates and or pictures!?

Willie · 11-13-2002, 08:15 AM

Guys,

I'm out of the picture on this topic, simply because it's completed on my car. I'm hoping mypontiac takes over and shares information on installation of this system on his '91 TA.

Willie

poorboy8 · 11-13-2002, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mypontiac
Anyone hear from Willie lately.

He was helping me with the install, but has not been responding to my e-mails.

Hope he is on vacation or something.

I've been making some progress on the install. Just getting it done in phases.

Intercoolers should be going on next.

I take it you have gotten in contact with him then! :-)

Willie · 11-13-2002, 03:03 PM

As a matter of fact, I was on vacation. I did not check my e-mail for over one month. When I returned, I called mypontiac!!

Willie

mypontiac · 11-13-2002, 07:45 PM

I had not done work with the ATI set up lately as my 1991 TA has been running very bad.

The 91 went in the shop about 2 weeks ago and my mechanic was checking for the problem. So I had to switch insurance on my collector TTA and drive it in the mean time.

Good news is that the 1991 TA came home from the mechanic and is running great!

Also, now that I have a second driver I can begin some serious installation of the SC without being concerned with not having transportation.

I plan on doing some work this weekend. I will update once I make some real progress.

jamesbob02 · 12-11-2002, 12:37 AM

What's the latest, mypontiac?

mypontiac · 12-11-2002, 07:25 PM

I have the intercoolers mounted. I did this over the Thanksgiving holidays. I had to do some surgery to the car to get them to fit, but nothing really difficult.

To install them on the Trans Am :

Ground effects need to be modified.
A fender brace needs to be cut off. Still leaves one brace and this is sufficient.
The towing eye on the passenger side needs to be removed and the remaining fender brace requires a new sheet metal screw added to mount it to the frame.

As this is not a off the shelf item, I had to make the brackets and drill all of the holes for bolted connections.

All this took about two full days to do.

I am taking off 2 weeks from work beginning next Friday to finish the installation. So by next year we will have the first D-1SC twin intercooled 3rd Generation TA.

I will post photos once I got it done.

The car is at the mechanic getting a new high flow fuel pump. The stock pump was going out so I am going with a single high flow instead of the stock pump and ATI supplied inline pump.

Will update next year.

'91 Formula · 12-19-2002, 07:55 AM

Thanks. Keep us posted.

mypontiac · 12-24-2002, 02:16 PM

Here are some photos.

Need some additional fittings from ATI to finish the project.

Happy Holidays! :lala:

mypontiac · 12-24-2002, 02:22 PM

One more photo.

MdFormula350 · 12-26-2002, 05:52 AM

nice pics..

poorboy8 · 12-26-2002, 09:57 AM

I'm definately likeing what I see so far

jamesbob02 · 12-26-2002, 07:00 PM

What kind of tuning has to be done to accomodate a system like this? Does it require all sorts of new computers and stuff?

mypontiac · 12-26-2002, 08:44 PM

Yes. Lots of things can be done to optimize the system, but you can run a lower boost and get by with less.

Maniac (list member) has the Procharger system on a stock set up with great results.

I am following Willie's set up which required many more modifications. Although I did not change the heads as he did.

I am running larger injectors, a SC specific cam, Crane roller rockers, and a Jacob's ignition system.

Will need to burn a new chip for the modifications. Later tuning work.

Got most of it installed. Am waiting for a few fittings from ATI.

Will update again in a few days.

Getting very close.

mypontiac · 12-30-2002, 10:09 PM

OK The install is complete!!!

:lala: I now have the only 3rd Generation Trans Am that is ProCharged!!!

Only need to install my ground effects, modify the bumper and add the air deflectors for the intercoolers.

But I started the car today and everythings looks good. The belt runs true. It is very loud though. Sort of a bearing noise and a fine whistle. When you rev the car even the slightest the rumble is very loud!!! Can't wait to get her on the road.

Will follow with some photos later.

If anyone is interested in this kit, contact Dave at http://www.tenperf.com

Hey Willie! You out there???

mypontiac · 12-31-2002, 07:29 PM

Here are some photos.

mypontiac · 12-31-2002, 07:30 PM

One More. :lala:

CrazyHawaiian · 01-10-2003, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by psycomaross
:hail: :hail: Willie

would this work on a Vortech T-Trim?

Anyone know? Turned out selling the 92 B4C I was talking about earlier in the thread and now I have a 91 Z with a Vortech S-Trim (V1). I'm still interested in the ATI Twin Intercooler solution because I live in Hawaii (very hot all the time). Right now my engine regularly hits 220 degrees with the A/C off. Definately need to cool things down. I'm wondering if these could be adapted to work with the Vortech superchargers, or how hard you think it would be. Thanks!!

mypontiac · 01-11-2003, 03:13 PM

Go to http://www.tenperf.com and talk to Dave. He is the only distributor dealing with this set up.

mypontiac · 01-12-2003, 09:54 PM

Just to update. I got my ATI inline fuel pump and FMU installed as of 1/2 hr. ago. I am beat!!!

When I cranked her up she was running pig rich!!!

So I brought the fuel pressure down till the white smoke quit coming out and the idle smoothed out!

I am going to be getting a custom chip made to get the fuel straight throughout the RPM band. Waiting on my cable from AKM Electronics to start gathering data from the car to my laptop. This will be used to acurately program the chip.

Will update as I progress.

B4Ctom1 · 01-14-2003, 10:00 PM

it ran rich at idle?

mypontiac · 01-14-2003, 10:56 PM

Yea. I talked to the ATI tech and he agreed that with the increased flow from 2 pumps and my larger injectors that I will run rich till' I get a new chip for the car. Will have that next week.

Will update.

mypontiac · 01-14-2003, 10:58 PM

Here is a good shot of the inline pump install.

B4Ctom1 · 01-15-2003, 10:36 AM

um, not at idle. nice install. one word though? rust? nevermind I just saw you put in bigger injectors, what size were they?

mypontiac · 01-15-2003, 08:10 PM

Yes there is surface rust, but it is not severe. The car is from Michigan, but it now lives in Louisiana. I have painted the rear axle and floor pans with Por15. I will probably end up cleaning and painting the bottom eventually. Just working on the mechanics now.

I am running 23# Accell injectors. They have really made my 305 run rich especially during start up in open loop.

And yes, at an idle in open loop is the worse. Once in closed loop it is drivable. But my gas mileage really sucks.

B4Ctom1 · 01-16-2003, 10:03 AM

I see, yeah I had 30# in a 350 car a long time ago (stock chip did the same thing) rich during open loop normal during closed. do you have motor plans?

mypontiac · 01-16-2003, 07:09 PM

Think I am going to just play with this set up for a while. Experiment with program alteration and chip burning.

I have never raced a car at the track so I would like to try that too.

Bet it is a big adrenilline rush.

My custom prom from pcmforless is in the mail. Once it is in I will start sending Alvin (the programmer) data from the ECM to update the program. I will be going back and forth with him till we get it just right.

How are your projects going??

mypontiac · 01-16-2003, 10:27 PM

Here are more detailed photos of the install.

Passenger side fender area. Shows relocated washer fluid bottle, pollution canister, and Jacob's controller.

mypontiac · 01-16-2003, 10:34 PM

Driver's side showing relocated battery.

mypontiac · 01-16-2003, 10:36 PM

And last one for tonight.

Relocated power steering pump cooling lines. Specific to the Firebird/Trans Am.

mypontiac · 01-22-2003, 10:05 PM

Just wanted to let everyone know that there is a friendly and knowledgable prom programming service available.

Alvin at pcmforless.com is helping me to develop a prom for my TA.

This is a great way to get into prom burning while still getting your car straight faster.

I got the first run prom from him yesterday and the car is running better already. Much smoother idle. I initially sent him all of the mods that hve been made. Next I will send him scanned data to further refine his program.

He does not have a problem with sending you his program files so you can send him car data and he will send files to burn into your prom.

He says that not too many third gen owners contact him mostly fourth gen. So it is time to spread the good news here.

You can see many posts for his work at www.camaroz28.com

Hope this helps others out!

B4Ctom1 · 01-23-2003, 05:30 AM

www.pcmforless.com = deadlink