ATI's Twin Hi-Flow Intercooler System on a Third Gen? Stay Tuned... - Power Adder - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Willie · 06-08-2002, 06:41 PM

Although ATI has attempted to convince me that their three-core intercooler (IC) does not impede airflow to the radiator, I know from practical experience that it does. Even in the winters here in Arizona (about 60*F), my car runs about 20 degrees warmer than before the IC install. In the summers, my car runs ridiculously hot, even without the A/C. I can only imagine it's worse on a Firebird with no "grill". For guys in milder climates, this is not an issue, but for us in hotter regions, it is a major concern.

I approached ATI with the idea of fabricating their twin high-flow intercooler design for third gens and they are willing to work with me on developing a "kit". The twins mount horizontally to the ground and are positioned near the front corners. This design will not hinder airflow to the radiator as does the single IC design, which mounts just below the radiator and almost completely blocks airflow to the radiator. The only air the radiator gets is what flows through the IC (which in itself is hotter than ambient) and for us Camaro owners, the grill openings (almost insignificant).

Preliminary fitting points to using the fourth gen LS1 IC's, but they will not be positioned in the same location as fourth gens. Once I receive the twin IC's (without mounting tabs), I will determine the best locations for them, then have the mounting tabs welded. I have a preliminary routing of the 2-1/2 inch tubing completed. All that needs to be done is to trial fit all the tubing, once the IC's are in place.

Although this "kit" will not be an official offering, I will be developing a parts list and instructions. Once it is completed, ATI will tell anyone who's interested in this design that it can be an option to the two or three IC setup.

I can't wait to get this project going.... Stay tuned.

mypontiac · 06-08-2002, 07:18 PM

Hi Willie,

I live in Louisiana and am concerned about the heating/cooling issue with the use of an intercooler for the SC. This has kept me from purchasing one to date. But as you know intercooled SC systems are the only way to go.

Please keep us informed of your work on this project. I for one am very interested in a SC, especially once the cooling issue is resolved.

Thanks for your help with this problem.

Please post some photos once you get it set up.

Guido · 06-09-2002, 11:32 PM

I think ATI would be ignorant to not take your design and use it as an option for their kits.

It only seems logical to do.

Good luck and keep us posted. Post photos when you get em! Im curious to see how this turns out.

'91 Formula · 06-12-2002, 08:37 PM

Yeah, I am looking forward to see what it looks like also. Post some pics. Does anybody have pics of the twin intercoolers on the 4th gen?

mypontiac · 06-12-2002, 09:27 PM

Hi 91',

Do you have a rev limiter with your set up??

I have a 305 w/ 5 speed and am beginning the mods based on Willie's set up.

How do you like running the SC with the 5 speed?

What are your RPM shift points?

Thanks.

89ProchargedROC · 06-13-2002, 12:19 AM

Willing what is the pricing on those? i'd be interested

'91 Formula · 06-13-2002, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mypontiac
Hi 91',

Do you have a rev limiter with your set up??

I have a 305 w/ 5 speed and am beginning the mods based on Willie's set up.

How do you like running the SC with the 5 speed?

What are your RPM shift points?

Thanks.

No rev limiter. When I get good burning chips, I will set it in the computer at 6300.

The supercharger with the 5-speed is great and will be even better once I finish installing the 6-speed.

With my cam and heads, 6000 is my shift point.

mypontiac · 06-22-2002, 10:04 PM

Yo Willie! :hail:

How's the project going?????

Willie · 06-22-2002, 11:21 PM

As of today, 06-22-02, I've received both intercoolers and a slew of piping and hoses from ATI. Unfortunately, I won't have time to tinker with any of this until next weekend at the earliest. I have, however, already laid out the plans for intercooler positioning and pipe routing.

Once I start getting physically involved, the first step will be to fabricate mounts for the intercoolers, making sure I have sufficient room for the piping. It's gonna be tight, but it should work!!!

The pricing won't be determined until I have completed the project and itemized all the pieces I will eventually use. Once this has been done, I will be making a parts list for ATI and a set of instructions.

Stay tuned.... same bat time, same bat channel....

Willie

88GTAinRI · 07-06-2002, 10:18 AM

Is it done yet? I am looking to buy a procharger, but do not want any overheating problems.

Willie · 07-06-2002, 11:04 AM

Update -- 07/06/02:

I have determined the final layout. Two weeks ago, I shipped back all piping I didn't use, both intercoolers with mounting flanges JB Welded, the two supplied "Y"s I had to modify and a parts list for piping I still needed (four more pieces). ATI has since permanently welded the mounting flanges onto the IC's and taken dimensions for the modified "Y"s. I'm waiting on a shipment which should include the "Y"s, and the additional piping I'll need. I expect to get these pieces back this coming week. Then all that remains is to install and test it.

I'm having additional flanges welded to the bottom side of the IC's to be used for custom fabricated air scoops. The IC's are mounted horizontally to the ground and include a flange that is used to bolt 1/4" thick rubber air deflectors. The deflectors are supposed to help direct air into the IC's. But from examing the rubber deflectors, I can tell they will bend backwards with vehicle speed, hence defeating their intended purpose. Therefore, I plan on building air scoops for each IC and examining the air temps, before and after the IC's with my already installed air temperatures gauges.

Keep in mind that my car is a Camaro and I do not know if this installation will be identical on a Firebird. If Dirk will allow me to crawl under his '92 GTA to experiment with fit, I will do so. (He lives 10 minutes from my house.)

I will post updates here as they become available, along with pricing when it becomes final.

Note: This is one trick looking system!!

Willie

mypontiac · 07-06-2002, 09:45 PM

Hi Willie,

Let me know if you are going to get with Dirk on fitting those IC's.

I can get you some photos of the car next week otherwise.

But, you can only get so much out of a photo.

Keep us up to date. Exciting project here.

mypontiac · 07-07-2002, 08:04 PM

Willie does care. And everyone loves Willie!!! See!!!

Sorry, had to too!!!

Willie · 07-09-2002, 08:03 AM

Let's put things back on track.

Update -- 07/07/02.
I'll be receiving all the additional piping/tubing this week. I hope to complete the installation this weekend -- stay tuned for pics.

Willie

Matt_91RSTPI · 07-09-2002, 12:29 PM

This is a great project and I'd like to thank you for your initiative and hard work to move this thing forward. Of course, as I thank you, my wallet curses you. Paired with ATI's D1SC this is a very formidable system. Thanks again and I look forward to the pictures.

-Matt

TRAXION · 07-10-2002, 11:35 AM

Sweeeeeet. This should make adapting an intercooler to a Vortech fairly easy. In case nobody knows ... I bought a bracket from BlownBird to eventually mount a Vortech YS-Trim. Here's my most recent progress. Pics are huge ...

http://asp.ipowerweb.com/cel2285/tim...s/DCP_0224.JPG
http://asp.ipowerweb.com/cel2285/tim...s/DCP_0225.JPG
http://asp.ipowerweb.com/cel2285/tim...s/DCP_0226.JPG

Thanks Willie. This is awesome.

Tim

Willie · 07-10-2002, 02:34 PM

Update: 07/10/02

I received all the tubing yesterday and trial fitted the whole enchilada. It's going to work beautifully with minimal mods. The vacuum cannister will be relocated slightly. The passenger side fender brace will need to be modified. That's about it.

Here's one pic taken a couple of weeks ago with the IC's in place. I was working on tube routing at the time, so it is not complete. Nor are the IC air deflectors in place either. In any case, you can see where the IC's will go. The two coolers in the pic above the stock radiator air dam are for my transmission and engine oil cooler -- not part of the blower setup.

88GTAinRI · 07-10-2002, 04:28 PM

That looks SWEET! Is that how ATI will be selling the kits from now on, or is this intercooler idea offered at an additional cost? Is it gonna fit in a Trans-Am? Excellent job Willie. I had a 300ZX on the lift at work the other day and I was wondering why nobody had an intercooler for our cars like this style.

Hank O.

Willie · 07-10-2002, 10:44 PM

That looks SWEET!

I couldn't agree more. Now, if it performs as well as it's gonna look.....>>>>

Is that how ATI will be selling the kits from now on, or is this intercooler idea offered at an additional cost?

No, BUT it will be an "unofficial" option. In other words, if you mention this when ordering, they will assemble the pieces, based on my design and sell it that way. That means that not many of us third genners will have this awesome looking setup.

Is it gonna fit in a Trans-Am?

I did have a chance to go to Dirk's house (our illustrious founder of this site and current administrator) and inspect his '92 GTA. I can see how different it is from a Camaro, so I'm not sure how many changes will be necessary to make my design work on a Trans-Am.

If I have time, I'll go back to Dirk's with the pieces and see how it works.

Willie

89ProchargedROC · 07-10-2002, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Willie

I couldn't agree more. Now, if it performs as well as it's gonna look.....>>>>

Willie

i saw on cz28.com someone had a 140iat at the beginning of the run and 88iat at the end, only like 8 above abient

'91 Formula · 07-11-2002, 06:18 AM

Could we just order the intercooler setup, without ordering a complete system?

How much do you think they will charge?

89ProchargedROC · 07-11-2002, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by '91 Formula
Could we just order the intercooler setup, without ordering a complete system?

How much do you think they will charge?

LOL, knowing ATI....ALOT

Willie · 07-14-2002, 04:18 PM

Update 07/14/02:

IT'S FINISHED!!!!

Finished it yesterday and took her for a spin today. It's only 104 today, so it's not as hot as it's been lately. But I can conclusively say that my original goal of being able to run the AC without overheating has been achieved. My engine temps were no hotter than I've been the last five weeks without my blower or 3-core IC.

I also reinstalled my air temperature gauge sensors. Same as before -- before and after the intercooler(s). I saw IC inlet temps as high as 169 and the hottest outlet temp I saw was 110. This was under normal driving conditions -- no boost. Well, I did jump on it a "little" and saw 5 psig.... These figures are similar, if not identical, to what I recall with the three-core setup.

Willie

Here's one pic:

Willie · 07-14-2002, 04:31 PM

And one more from behind. I added "deflectors" just in front of and horizontal to the IC, effectively hiding the piping/tubing. I was not planning on doing this, but you could barely see about the bottom 1/4" of piping/tubing from in front of the car, so....

Also, the rubber air deflectors that are supplied are supposed to angle vertically. Even though they are 1/4" thick, they are rather flexible. I can imagine at 40 mph or over, these things are going to be flapping in the wind, defeating their purpose. So I used sheet metal, formed it with an angle and inserted them behind the deflectors. They "support" only the top half, which should be sufficient. You should be able to see it in the pic.

In the very near future, I will be fabricating air scoops, similar to the one found on the three-core, for each IC. Depending on which is more efficient (or cooler looking), I'll go with that one.

Willie

Willie · 07-14-2002, 04:37 PM

I should have displayed this image sooner. It's the entire setup laid out on my study's floor before it was installed. Notice the two pipes that cross from side to side must be twisted, similar to a pretzel but only once. Otherwise, one branch would use both IC's and the other none... Can't have that!

Willie

Tom Keliher · 07-14-2002, 05:19 PM

Nice work, Willie! Looks totally pro.

robertg · 07-14-2002, 07:47 PM

Willie:

Wow. That is simply beautiful. I hope ATI does indeed hold true to their word and offer that IC package as an option.

That looks like a bunch of fun