If you're runnin' on the street, I say do it with the motor, and by that I mean do it with a motor that will keep the exhaust cops at bay too. I am anti-power adder to the bone. If you've got a power-adder, be it NOS, hair-drier induction or whatever, that horse power is as fake and as un-natural as a pair of silicone boobies. That doesn't mean there ain't a time or a place for them, just not everywhere you look. Any time you whoop up on someone and you have a power adder, they've got that built in excuse as to why you smoked them. The only thing they can say when you give them a pure, unadulterated, all motor ***-whoopin is, "Oh I wasn't really trying to race!" As soon as I see someone's taillights, that makes me put my toe in my throttle body if for no other reason than because LOSING SUCKS. If your runnin' at the drag strip and ONLY at the drag strip, then I say open the floodgates and make that sucker go as fast as you can, by any means necessary, jet engines, nitro, superchargers, NOS.... Hell if pissin in the fuel gives you a 10th, by all means, piss in the fuel. Time and a place for everything!

going fast all natural just means you know how to spend money (as if blowers/turbos were cheap) besides if that was the way to go top fuel and funny cars would only go 6's like prostock instead of 3's

I see supposed street cars all the time that load up at the line and cant stage or empty thier 15 gallon fuel cell on a 40 mile pre race required cruise (for fastest street car races). streetable 10-9-8 second cars either have power adders or problems. when you do see one it gets about 5 gallons to the mile (not a misprint) or has to have the valve spings replaced every 100 miles because the only way it can go fast is with 468 cubes and 10,000 RPM so it has about 310 pounds of seat pressure with the valve closed.

For street cars, nitrous is a lot more practical than building a high strung NA motor.
You don't nessesarily have to run a nasty cam where power only kicks in at 3000 rpms.
and spending thousands of dollars on fancy heads, and computerized intakes just isn't feasable for some people.
besides that, hp for hp, nitrous motors can live longer and be more docile while cruising around on the street.
It doesn't have to burn all it's fuel at such a high VE all the time.

Whether or not you have a power adder makes little difference to those who make up excuses. they will have an excuse for anything you bring.

all that being said. I still have more respect for an na motor that can run with a nitrous motor.

but you get walked by a nitrous motor. you've lost. period.

very well put, I see nothing I could argue with there.

So your basically saying that forcing more air in to the engine is creating fake HP. So then doesnt any mod to an engine add fake horsepower. Boring out an engine allows more air in, so does a larger port head, or a ported stock head. Ram air hoods must definitely be out then. Think about the basic principles of how an engine works, more colder, denser air creates more HP, there are many ways to shove more air in there.

And if someone has to spray to beat me, then so be it. If i lose, i lose, there'll always be another race and time for vindication.

I agree with Jer82Z28 in that i respect an na motor more than a boosted one that can run the same, but you would be hard pressed to find an na motor running 10s or lower on pump gas, but it can be done using power adders.

I just dont want to limit the potential of any car by saying that ill never using an adder. Ill go as far as i can na, but then bring on the adders.

I think what he was trying to say is that instead of using a machine (which is what adders are) to force air into an engine, you use the engines themro and fulid dynamics to get as much air as possible into it. It seems more elegant to me for some reason. Please don't flame me here. I'm as big a turbo fan as they come, and I am aware of the mechanical prowess it takes to install/tune blowers turbos nitrous anything. An NA engine is just that. All natural. Not to be a ***** wanna be, but winning is winning. No excuses.

if it wasnt for power adders there would be no quick ricers. anti power adder is anti fast/anti streetable. P.S. this is the most anti power adder post I have ever seen on a power adder board?

I don't like nitrous, but I think its very beneficial for some people.

The N/A thing is great, but when you've run out of things to do with your high compression N/A built motor, good luck going furthur without a teardown.

I think the idea of nitrous on a mild motor is good for weekend racers. Doesn't waste power, and gas for day to day driving, but makes gobs of power when your on the bottle. Why not??

My supercharger works kinda the same way, although I had fairly good power N/A, but at 9:1 compression I had no problem running a blower.

On a side note, a friend of mine is running similar horsepower I am N/A, with a 13:1 compression ratio. He couldn't drive his car more than one 1/4 run at a time because of heat, fuel, etc..

I'm dissapointed at people who attempt to make fun of others who use nitrous. And the comment of the ricers running mid 14's is even more ignorant, because as much as I'd hate to admit it most of the ricers at the local track here will kick half all your asses without even looking back..

So here is my opinion on nitrous: Somewhat dangerous, but cheap way of creating massive HP on an otherwise mild motor.
Good for bracket racing? I don't think so, not very consistant.
Good for street use? Yes..

-- Joe

I'm not making fun of anyone, or saying that you're wrong, I just said that in my opinion power adders give fake hp. I don't want to fight or anything, just my opinion. I only gave it because it was asked for. I personaly agree with all of you, if you lose, you lose, power adder or no. Yes NOS, turbos, & superchargers are bad ***, I just don't like them. I have a friend that has a 89 TTA and that sucker makes a lot of power and is fast as hell (lots faster than me), but my brother has an LS1 in his 87 IROC with no adder, and it is faster. It can be done and it can be reliable. Not that power adders take away from the reliability, necessarily, (Ford has a hell of a warranty on thier Lightning, which is a damn fast truck just as GM stands behind the supercharged Grand PRIX's) just well built natural motors can be reliable too. They do get expensive and and a bit quirky to drive on the street, but that is part of the fun too. I'm just a big fan of naturally aspirated engines.
As far as this argument goes, I've never thought about it that way. You got me there.
Thanks ATOMonkey, that's what I meant. I used to work in a mostly imoprt salvage yard, maybe that is what warped my opinion on power adders. Those damn Civic's that are runnin in the 10's & 11's just scare the crap out of me!! Bottom line here is this, if you want to use an adder, do so. If we race and you smoke me, (which you probably will cuz I'm not real fast yet) then I have lost, no tears no excuses. I'm not one to make an excuse for losing even if I lose to a damned Civic.

I like NOS. If you put it on than it should be just as valid as any aftermarket part. It's a rush when you hit the switch. Just think people do "whip its" with little bottles of it. It gets you high, you know, I know. So it's gotta be good for the car if people use it to get high. Just kidding. But really though I think it's some sweet stuff. The look on your opponents face is hard to see but it is always classic. A guy might really think he has you and "pssst" NOS. It's all about the wrech work that goes into the car. And to say it's illegal for use on the street so therefore it shouldn't be used in a street race is BS because geuss what? Street Racing is illegal. If you like NOS then use it.

N20 = What if the bottle runs out?
Motor = Just keep it full of gas...

Id rather have all motor, knowing that when i punch it, its gonna go, not rather, do i have NOS in my bottle?

Im not saying n2o is retarded, or cheating, but id rather have all motor than worrying about keeping my bottle full...

its cool dude, but I would like to see a 10 second or faster car that has no power adder gets atleast 20 MPG on pump gas and drives smoothly on the street without over heating or needing valvetrain adjustment (or valvetrain replacement). I think maybe It would be alot more interesting if there were races other than the weekends (i used to race on weds. at sears point in the 90's), if you dont see consistent Nitrous users your not looking hard enough, its like saying there are no consistent stick cars. I am just playing the devils advocate.

......I'd Love to get a 125-150 H.P. Nitrous shot for my car.Maybe one day...

I have heard this same bull**** "n20 is cheating" subject so many times I wanna puke.A POWER ADDER IS A POWER ADDER.If it adds additional hp on top of your NA numbers..it is a legit power adder.I make around 380 rwhp and spray anywhere from a 100 to 200 shot on top of that depending on my mood.I built my 355 to utilize n2o,as well as be a very healthy NA motor.Did I accomplish that..yes.Do I hide it..NO.But if you don't ask I don't tell.Do I run around with gay little NX stickers all over my car..NO.Why do all the street car sactioned racing bodies allow n2o if it is cheating?Cause it isn't..let go of it.I am cool with whatever PA you choose to run and if I spray and you beat me all motor or with whichever PA you choose..so be it..your car is faster.Since when did street racing have "cheating" clauses built in..it's run what ya brung where I come from,and I have seen it all used at one point or another over the last 8 years around here.A fast car is a fast car..who gives a **** what it uses to go fast.Imports I have no comment on,they have their own little twisted idea of a muscle car.I prefer fast american muscle!

Trust me, I'd love to do it all motor, but high school kid making $6 / hour, plus insurance payments.

all motor here too guys.

Well, I am not fan of the bottle refills. I 've only used my kit once. I am only using it to get respectable times on the 305 while my bigger motor is being built up. After the motor is done, I may still use it sometimes.

yeah i see no2 as i cheating method for people that have money but dont really understand how to make power or are too dumb to build some power and run it off 92 octane pump gas

i go crusing on univeristy ave in cedar falls iowa every saturday night and all these rice bunners come up to me and wanna run em stop light to spot light and ill blow them away and then i will go back to my gathering i hang with up there and they will pull in and ask what i have under my hood so i ask them allready knowing what they got and the rattle off twin torbo this and nos that and theres no way you should have beaten me and i reply with all i have is a motor in mine and walk away

wow that is soooo cooool, would you be my friend?

Nicely said B4Ctom1

Maverick....if I had a dime for everytime I have heard a story like that I would be rich

Power is Power, it all cost money it all takes time, it all just depends on how you wanna get there.

Nothing is cheating, nothing is unfair, run what you brought and hope to hell you brought enuf!.

As for me, nothing makes me happier than a V8 that I can drive everyday and run N20 when I need/want to use it.

Why not use N20 on a stock car? provided all the cars systems can handle it {Fuel System , Ignition, Internals}.

As for cheating, N20 is not Cheating. Cheating is done by PEOPLE.

This is the kind of kid I love to catch on the street..first light to light I beat ya plenty good NA...second light to light I spray the **** out of ya and embarass the living **** out of ya.I am with B4Ctom1 on ths one..YOU are the COOLEST.Pickin on ricers with a bottle..you must have a fast car..

hey "ONEBAD82z" I see your sig you have a 82 t-10 z, my old fav, I dont seem to see alot of those, I actually shattered mine with a 305 TPI (racing against a 5.0), I still have the bell housing for that car. It has the multi pattern to fit chev and B-O-P but only fitz small flywheel (even has a bullet hole repair). how is youre clutch linkages holding up does gm still sell new ones? I bought all new ones and it made it feel like a new car. when I blew the trans I couldnt find a similar replacement (the 3rd gen ones were different and special. I got a real T-10 out of a vette and replaced it. but had to use a kit for putting the th-350 in the car because the vette t-10 had no torque arm provision.

I have been reading this thread, and getting some chuckles out of it, but 1 statement made on here kinda pissed me off.



"yeah i see no2 as i cheating method for people that have money but dont really understand how to make power or are too dumb to build some power and run it off 92 octane pump gas"


I have used nitrous very little in the past, as my race car was fast enough for me, but I plan on getting a small plate system for my 'roc. I build NHRA and IHRA prostock engines for a living, and also have built 800 hp pump gas, na engines, as well as a pair of 1500 hp pumpgas blower motors for a boat, but some fool is gonna call me "too dumb" to build power??? Nitrous is just another way of making power, no more no less. The freakin motor does not know or care where the power comes from, all it knows is if its there or not. I have seen people running 4 BIG systems on a promod car running 6.20's at 225 mph. are they "cheating"? ANYTHING that puts more power into an engine has it potential drawbacks, but if used somewhat sensibly, no porblems usually arise. Now if only i was smart enough to build some power

WORD!

Personally I like my buddies 52 MG A/Altered converted to street. 1800 pounds curb with 468 chevy under whats referred to as a bonnet. LOL. Its a vintage racer from the 60's that at its best ran 8.80's. He just ran it at Edgewater into the 11's lifting once it hit second. Damn thing is just plain scary...cheers, Bob

I'm a firm believer in anything that makes the car go fast...

Nitrous just happens to be what I prefer...

My first experience with it was in '88 on a brand new Camaro TBI car I had bought...

I fell in love with the "little blue bottle", and it has since driven me to the poorhouse...

Never blew up an engine on it...
Burned a few plug electrodes, but never toasted a motor...

Below is a pic of a '70 Camaro I had up until Nov last year...
(Dad died, and had to sell it to support Mom)

Car went 9.50's on the motor, and 8.40's on the plate system...
Never got to try the fogger...

Car was always street legal, and run with mufflers...

True B4Ctom1,there isn't many T10 3rd gens left.I had my trans rebuilt about 6 years ago now with no problems..even behind my current 355 with many juice aided launches on slicks ..the 10 bolt is another story.I had purchased a Super T10 from a second gen Z but sold it when I saw it didn't have the torque arm mount so I had mine rebuilt.Then come to find out days later all I had to do was get the Hurst kit for the TH-350 swap When I built my 355 2 years ago the only pieces I could get new from GM was the Z bar and bushings and ball stud for it.The linkage I replaced with my own fabricated tubular linkage with spherical rod ends (got idea from an old CHP article) which helps get the linkage adjustments just right.But like you said it felt like a whole new car.

hey sorry if i made anyone mad i was in a bad mood that day and stumbled upond this thread but what i accually ment to say is on teh whole N02 thing is you should make the most out of your motor befor you add your nos to it im just tired of all the bosnians up here buy up a bran new car and right away troughing nos on it so they could be cool like on the fast and the furious but anywasy when i get my motor the way i want it i will prolly add juce to it too as there is a nother level of tunning from there but as for now i try to keep my car off it and build power the old fasioned way before i decide to add that

p.s. any one know of a good n02 setup for a tpi ? that dosnt just use foggers in the air box?

peace all

I sheared the gear teeth right off of the back side of the input shaft. not the dog or shift teeth like a missed shift but the drive teeth! It was a solid shift and a good traction situation. I have a knack for breaking stuff in interesting ways. At one point I had a stack of 12 7.5/7.625 3rd gen rears on the side of my parents house all broken (emptied the local salvage yards). I guess the t-10s that richmond sells or used to sell, can still be had. these t-10s are supposed to be the same as the 3rd gen model referred to as a 2nd design super T-10. you will notice the output yoke size on these are the same as a th350, like 1st design non-super T-10s, and instead of the th400 like 1st design super T-10's. the shifter on the 1st designs bolts on the same side of the tranny as the shift cover (drivers side) and the 2nd designs shifter for 3rd gens bolts onto the opposite side (passenger side) and uses a shifter with long disdended control levers and rods to get the shift over to the cover's side. I understand the richmond 2nd design T-10s are SUPPOSED to be able to use either shifter but have not confirmed it. I read in the service manuals and hear from others that some Z's got saginaws, havent seen one in person though.

im still debating if i want to add a ati procharger *with willies intercooler system* at 9lbs or a 300 shot direct port set up. BTW if that desktop dyno is right.. i should be in the 10's then. unfortunatly i havent been to the track yet with this motor.. so i dont know.. i guess its time to put the slicks on and c.


:lala: :lala:

Where are you getting your info from dude. I have over 7k in my 406, not including my NOS sytem. As for fixing the damage My daily driver has juice on it too, along with 184000 miles on it. I have nitrous on it for more than a year and put about 15 botles through it too. If you know what you are doing with nos you wont have any problems. yes after long periods of time it will ear parts, jsut as a supercharger and a turbo will too though.

I use it at the srtip, street, backroads when ever I want. Its about who wins not with waht you won. My friend has a 91 gt mustang with heads,cam,intake, and gears. My car has a muffler, k/n and ported plenum "tpi" and a 100 shot of juice. I spank his A$$ all day everyday at the track. As for my 406 in my GTA im in the low 11's all motor. I can then spray and go even faster.

Its like you are saying the 10 sec Turbo supras should only race on the track and turn the turbo off when the are driving on the street>?<

A power adder is a powerd adder PERIOD end of discussion. If someone does not like nirtous its probably cause they got beat by it.. "lol sucks for you"

I ahve over 1500.00 in my nitrous setup so for those of you who say it s a cheap way to go fast I say yes and know depends on the setup.

Drew

I saw the perfect sticker on a healthy Dakota R/T (Penguins truck..Drew!) this past friday at a local car show that sums it up."If bottles are for babies..don't cry when you get spanked".Seems the only people that cry about bottles are the ones that don't have one.

i wouldnt cry when i got spanked as long as i knew he was using n2o. of coarse im gonna bitch if i got into a race with somone with money on the line and we agree to go heads up with no bottle and he desides to get greedy.

From what I see though, most of us (including me) that are pro-nitrous agree with one thing- the prson using nitrous shouldn't be hiding it, or saying it's not there. It should be "known" that NO2 is being sprayed.

I would like to take the bottle out of my truck and beat you with it. You absolutly suck. Whats the matter with you people!?

What hot rodder in there right mind would be anti any power adder. To me listen up now this is real smart , People who hate Nitrous , think its cheating , unfair , fake , you are only into cars because you are a follower. You think Nitrous made its debut after the F&F movie came out? You think its not tricky to tune? You think its so easy to slap on and go fast? Well the thing is lazy people like yourself will continue to think in this fashion. They called it NOS in the 70's and its not spelled NAWS the pronunciation is from NOS say it dont spell it.

N/A gets no respect from me big deal , I'll take your 12 second N/A car and I'll take it into the tens for $500 bucks. Dont give me this Bull**** that you think because your N/A you deserve more respect. Hell thoose parts inside your motor are even taking a risk just like yourself. Theres nothing competitve about people like yourself. Yea yea yea playboy talk is cheap , save it for the track.

Nitrous haters are :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:

Thats like saying well if you tell me what cam you are running and what heads and ill race otherwise you are cheating if you lie.

Drew

It’s nice to see that this post was moved to where it belonged. You can just see from the first page the mentally some have. People often bash what they don’t know. As for asking if your opponent is on the bottle, around here the common answer is “No not me”. Nobody around here is going to open their hood till the run is done. If I lose and my opponent was spraying and I didn’t then I should have been prepared. After all word travels fast and there is always a faster car out there. And that is what keeps us pushing for more!

how is that even close to the same??? you cant hide the sounds that your cam makes in your exhaust, just like you cant hide the whinning of a supercharger or the BOV of a turbo. but its easy to hide a bottle and say that you wont/dont spray and then go and do it when you agree not to do it...

another note..im all for "race what you brought"....but if the question is asked "are you spraying?" ..the correct answer needs to be the truth. dont be a little bitch and deside to spray when you told the other person your not gonna. hell a few weeks ago my friend in his sprayed integra raced a VW GOLF for money. the guy asked if he was spraying, my friend siad "no" ...but he did. well he ended up calling me for back up cause they wanted to beat his *** for sprayin. thats the sh!t i hate.

Yes you can, bump up the idle speed.

]you sure can. but if it DOES make noise, tell them your powersteering is crapping out

Is it easy to hide your purge?
hiding a BOV is about as easy as hiding your nitrous purge.

iv seen people spray and they dont have a purge kit.

I've seen some turbo cars with no BOV

they could run higher boost with one.. obviously
just like ppl with no purge will get better results if they purge the heated n20 out of the lines.

I have one friend that plans to get a 'quiet' supercharger on his stang.
is he cheating then if he doesn't warn his opponent that he's blown?

I think people take this stuff too seriously.
the guy sprayed you!? you lost!? it's the end of the world!!

if there's money involved then your obligated to take a look around your opponents car... make sure to look for nitrous lines
among other things...

losers always cry, criers always lose. run what you brung, if you didnt bring enough then dont BET! I don't tell guys to turn off their nitrous. whats next, telling them to put radials back on, raise the tire pressure, add weight, take off in second, race blindfolded, and tie one hand behind their back? I love racing with a chance of losing, knowing that you can be beat will keep them racing you. Guys that say," I can beat you if you are off the juice" get no respect, zero. we have a name for guys that bet around here, outta town A-holes. Its funny for such a small town we have so many fast cars here, this place is lousy with 11 and 12 second 5.0's and couple of 9 and 10 second rides. once and a while a guy with a car we have seen run 9 seconds or so will show up and get beat by a fast car from town here that was detuned some, or jetted down, or has the waste gate turned down to about the level it would run 10's or 11's. It beats the faster car by a bunch due to traction. There is no way your back pedaling 9 second beast can beat a hooked up REAL street car, this applies especially to those damn AWD sy/ty's and mitsubishi's around here, they can be hard to beat. For all of our accomplishment, we end up having to race dips on crotch rockets. some peope think its all about power.

last time i checked you have to fill the bottle back up when it gets empty. so thats more money into a nitrous system that makes it from cheap to expensive. also im almost positvie in a blown or turbo application you can make boost all day. oh and even if your going n/a as long as your tank is full and you have air your set.

i think whining about nitrous is retarded. It is a very cheap source of insane power. I don't like it not because it's a "cheater system" but because it is extremely hard on the engine. I don't really care if you've never blown and engine or anything, it drastically reduces engine life just by its shear nature. I'd like to keep my car hassle free for several years and spend money on mods, not repairs. regardless, nitrous has been around for a long time, it is very very cheap as far as $/HP goes, why do you think all these ricers are using it!

my take on it........... I dont care how you get from here to there. It is about who is the big dog. Whip it out, if it stands up, you are the man for today.

All these guys who whine about Joey having N2O, & Timmy having a blower, Freddy having a tubo, & heaven forbid Tommy having a blower & a bottle.............. these guys need to go back home & come back out when they get hair under their arm & can lift thier leg when they pee.

If he drives it up, runs it & comes out on top, HE is the big dog. Who cares how he makes his power, if he beats you to the end he wins if you are the first one there you win. Get over it.

BW

here ya go maverick . . . . . . . . . <= try using these - it makes for an easier read.

I have been racing for longer than alot of you guys have been walking. It doesn't matter if you Supercharge,Turbo or add N2O. This is a sport and being so you do what you have to if you want to win.
I am at a point in life I can not spend $2000.00 to $5000.00 dollars to make a extra 100 or 150 HP to keep up with everyone else. So you use the N2O. The days of 400 H.P. cars being the big dogs are long gone. I am in a car club call Motown Muscle and we have over 200 members. My car has run a best of 12.96 . 90% of the cars are that fast or faster. I am installing a N2O kit on my car and it will be average for our club. A mid 11 second car. To be a big dog on the streets around greater Detroit area you have to be making at least 850 H.P. Then again you will see alot of them. Everyone keeps upping the next person. That is the name of the game.

In all honesty about the N20 system I see nothing wrong with it. But only with people that know how to use it and build their motors to the shot of N2O that they are taking but I hate nothing more then when a kid goes yeah I'm gonna put a shot of NOS on my brothers 86 Ford Ranger and it'll smoke the he11 out of ya!!

im willing to bet 10 bucks that if someone who is anti N20 saw/ran against a new C5 vette with nitrous,they wouldnt bitch when they got beat,but instead think it was the coolest thing on earth.and I personally am Pro N20,and plan on using it to make my 305 get into the 13's,hopefully high 12's.then its time to buy one of those C5's,and spray it.