Hi Saturn5, I am not too good at electronics so I bit the bullet and put out some $$. But it looks like my set up is A1 from all of the comments from owners. It is also a good set up as you can download to a PC and get RPM vs. air/fuel data to program a custom PROM. Thanks for the heads up anyway.

Well, you’re partially getting my point and partially missing it.

My point is that a WBO2 will give you information and will help tuning, mostly in getting the fuel curve into a “safe” range, which has not much to do whit where the car runs best (which is usually someplace in the ‘safe’ range).

Tuning by ‘feel’ and performance works if you’ve got some understanding of what the engine and chassis is doing, and start from a known safe tune (could just as easily start way rich and go from there, it will just take a little longer). This is what we did with my brother’s blown car. Basically I got in the passenger seat with the laptop, he drove around and I kept track of what it was doing and tried to fix any performance maladies. After a couple of sessions like this he put it on a chassis dyno and on the first run had almost a perfectly smooth A/F curve in the mid 12’s. On subsequent runs he tried adding and subtracting both fuel and timing on separate runs and found that he lost power with every change, so he ended up leaving the tune that we came up with on the street. This is a blown ford 5.0 in a four door that runs low 11’s (hopefully 10’s this year), with 50-100passes using this tune by feel (we did pull plugs after a few passes just to make sure), with no indications of anything trying to or being close to letting go.

OK I see. But it is actually a combination of both methods. Not getting rid of the wide band O2 set up at all.

After months of hard work getting the supercharger installed, I am needing the security of the wide band O2 to make sure I am not going to blow the engine.

I do understand too that the human experience is needed to get it just right.

Have fun with your project. I am having fun with mine. Gages are cool! Nice to know exactly what is going on at any time.

Just to update. I got my ATI inline fuel pump and FMU installed as of 1/2 hr. ago. I am beat!!!

When I cranked her up she was running pig rich!!!

So I brought the fuel pressure down till the white smoke quit coming out and the idle smoothed out!

I am going to be getting a custom chip made to get the fuel straight throughout the RPM band. Waiting on my cable from AKM Electronics to start gathering data from the car to my laptop. This will be used to acurately program the chip.

Will update as I progress.

Here is a good photo of the inline fuel pump installed on a 1991 TA passenger side rear seat area. I have two relays shown. One is for the Racetronix pump and the other (bolted with the inline pump) is for the ATI inline pump.

I am running out of room for mods!!!!!

Here is a photo of a new vacuum block created by Dorian at ATI. It hooks up the the PCV port on your manifold. This port is not used for the PCV with the ATI set up. All of the boost related accessories are tied into it allowing you to keep the standard accessories on the other vacuum ports. :hail:

The Airtex pump you placed in-line is rated around 200L/Hr so in fact it will choke the GSS340M in your tank.
You should have tried the in-tank pump by itself before adding the T-Rex inline as chances are it would have been more that enough. GN's run in the 10's @ 3500lbs+ with a single GSS340M supplying pressures in excess of 70PSI. The BSFC of a V6 under high boost (20+PSI) is lower than your V8.

Jack
Racetronix
www.racetronix.com

Hi Jack,

That is why I bought your pump in the first place!!

But the ATI tech said that the problem was not with the 255 fuel delivery, but the fuel delivery at high pressure.

He insisted that I needed the inline pump to keep the volume at high pressure.

I also investigated this issue over many posts.

It seemed the opinion that the 255 would work well with normal aspiration, but not deliver under high boost pressures????

I was going to exchange the inline pump for the FMU, instead I put out another $210 and had to spend the weekend installing the inline pump.

The only thing though is why did the car run so pig rich after the install of the inline if it was supposed to choke it??

I am thinking that the ATI inline pump is rated higher than 200 ???
ATI says that it is rated at 43 gph at 70 psi.

That would make more sense with the severe richness after the install.

So what do I believe here???

Anyway the car is tuned for my setup with a perfect custom prom (see next post). Thank goodness!

So I am going to just leave it alone.

But for the information of others, what is the real deal??????

I have been working with a PROM programmer from www.pcmforless.com

His name is Alvin and he is very familar with the programming of our 3rd gen cars. :hail:

He initially took the modifications information done on the car and sent me a first run prom. I provided him (through email) data using TTS software collected with my laptop. He then reprogrammed the prom file and sent it to me via email. I burned the program into the prom using pocket programmer II.

We went through this process about 6 times. But now I have a prom that gives the car perfect start up idle, very sensitive accelleration and incredible power at WOT!!!

I highly recommend his services. He is friendly and motivated.

We exchanged files this last weekend. He would take less than an hour to send me a new prom file from the time I sent the data.

Hope this helps other list members.

Hi Jack,

I found this on another post. Please be advised that this is not a T-Rex inline pump, but a pump supplied by ATI ProCharger.

So I am probably just over fueled here as you can see below I may be running two 255 lph pumps.

3. Yenko - you recommended a 255 lph intank pump (please explain this item) Assuming it is a fuel pump ATI furnishes a high flow fuel pump with their kit.
The ATI pump that comes with the kit is supposed to be a 255lph pump (so i was told by ATI), but it is obnoxiously noisey, so i too changed my in-tank pump to a Walbro gsm340 (255lph). you can get by with no problem with the ATI supplied pump.

first on this site? first in your state? first on your street?

definately not the first ever........nice choice though.

Yes Kandied91z,

It is the first for what it is. ATI does not make a TWIN INTERCOOLED D-1SC kit for the thirdgen Camaro or Firebird.

List member Willie was tired of his car overheating with the 3 core intercooler which is normally sold with the third gen ATI kit.

I worked with Willie and ATI to get a similar twin intercooled D-1SC kit set up for my 1991 TA. I was sent a box of parts similar to what Willie had finally used. I had to make my own brackets, cut my own hoses, and drill my own mounting holes into the intercooler support system. Everything came raw.

So after several returns and reshipment of modified items, some extra hoses and brackets, I got it all assembled. So I do own the only twin intercooled D-1SC on a third gen Trans Am. Willie owns the only set up for the Camaro.

Any others interested in joining us with this set up need to contact Dave at

http://www.tenperf.com/

He is the only dealer familiar with this custom set up.

By the way, awsome Camaro!!!!

Great job man. So was there was there much of a difference between what Willie did and what you had to do? Probally not a whole lot between the two cars. You can tell me to read the whole thread if the answer is in there but this is good for now! lol If anyone is interested there is a Group Purchase through Ten. Performance on any ATI kit and if i were to go in this would be the way to go! The site says that if someone were to replicate this set up, they would have to talk with either Dave, or Willie. And i guess for the Firebirds mypontiac now! Like mentioned above, they will only send the parts required and i believe there are no formal instructions yet. Good luck with the new set up, i hope it lasts for you guys with no problems. Later

sounds nice, but untrue....we've got cars here in michigan with the setup for quite some time. i'm not trying to start any wars just making sure your aware.

nice all the same, don't know why ati seems to tell everyone that their the first with the setup. unless like you said it's an actual first "kit".

o'well it's nice to know there are others out there with the cool d1-sc and especially with the twin intercoolers.

throw some n20 on those two and really have some fun. it works wonders.

Yea. I was not aware that others did it too.

That is so ironic!!! I am in Louisiana, but I got the TA from a friend in Michigan.

Completely stock when I got it, but I got over $10,000 into it now!

The bracket locations are slightly different from the Camaro to the Firebird. I think I have some info on this post.

NOS would prorbably be too much for the stock bottom end 305. I'll experiment if I ever have to get a new engine. Ha!!

no no no.....that's the beauty of it all my good man!!

Cool!!! Really.

Send me more info PM if you have the time.

I am gone for now. Going to start the install of a FJO wide band O2 sensor and an MSD BTM!!!

Can anyone say Mo money, Mo money, Mo Money!!! Ha!

what's there to know? roughly 400 will get you in the door to start and the rest is up to you.

So how much hp would i expect to gain with a minimal nos shot??

Will it be there to allow me to increase timing without knock??

Where will the gains be?

I am running pretty cool already with the twin intercoolers and cols ambient temps.

just sit down and think about it logically.

how much does the average intercooler add? well now make that air charge that much cooler depending on the shot size and design........i mean it's no different than when you first added an intercooler.

if cold air helps, what does colder air do...?

MMMMMMMMMMM. Cool!

Just need to find more room for mods!

Wait for updated crammed engine bay pics.

Hey Mom! Guess what??

I made it to a web page!!

Thanks to everyone for helping me get there. Including the silent Willie!!

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bherter/index.html

Here are the pics!!

One more!!!

here is an interior shot.

Air/Fuel Gauge in action!

Anyone have experience in running NOS with a blown engine??

Thanks.

I've got a couple of questions for you guys...

First, does ATI make this kit for an 85 TPI or even the P1sc and would that be good as well?

Secondly, Why did Willie's camaro overheat with the 3-core intercooler?

And last, Does the SC hurt you stock or modified drive train or put any hurtful stress on the car or other parts?

Thanks, (LOVE THE SETUP!!):hail:
- 5Speed

they make kits for the tpi.....but, they don't make one for say an 85 exactly..

yes forced induction wears your drivetrain down....unless your running real mild boost it's best to do a rebuild. especially if you have alot of miles on your drivetrain or heavy abuse.

it helps to change the intake, fuel system, and bottom end. it costs to go fast.....but it's well worth it. :lala:

The reason i was asking about a kit for an 85 TPI was because my 85 has the mass air flow sensor instead of the MAP sensor, will this make a difference?

i was only aware of the speed density like mine and the maf like earlier...

yes it will make a difference, i know of people personally running them on setups like yours with no problems; however with all kits there are areas of fabrication required.

why not ask it as a separate question from this thread, you will get better repsone.

I took the TA to Thunder Racing today. I made some great new friends.

I met Paul, Brad, Shane, Darrin and David.

Everyone was impressed with the little 305.

The run was good, but a little choppy at high RPM with the stock coil. So I need an aftermarket ignition.

I had problems with my Jacobs ignition and returned it for an exchange. I am going to try the new Jacobs set up when I get it. If it continues to give me problems, I will go with the MSD digital 6 and MSD GM booster coil.

Here is the dyno run! I was told that my HP is higher than 90% of the cars that get dynoed!

Pretty good for a little 305!

The suggestions I got were to get better a better intake system and to incorporate an air intake box into my future ram air hood.

This is inline with post member Willie's recommendations to me that I would need to get rid of my stock heads and go with higher flowing heads.

Heads and ram air intake box will be next project.

What mods/boost were you running for those numbers?

Thanks

Robert

My mods are posted earlier in this thread.

I was making 8 # of boost at 4500.

It was good to meet you and see the car. I was impressed! Hopefully you'll pick up some top end power with your ignition upgrades. I don't think the intake is hurting you as bad as you think, the supercharger tends to improve upon the negative aspects of the LTR setup. Anyway, you definately were putting down some good numbers

Hey Brad Thanks!

Actually, even if the head change did add some extra HP, I have been advised by many reliable sources including Shane that I may push the stock bottom end over the limit by adding any more HP.

So I am just going to get the ignition system tuned better and work out a custom intake for the new Ram Air Hood.

I'll post some pics as that project develops!

As promised, here are some photos of the TA with the new Ram Air hood. I will be working on the custom intake for the SC now.

Check out how fine she looks!!!!

One more.

I love my body shop!!!

Here are some realy sexy photos!!!

Topless!

1 of 3.

2 of 3.

3 of 3.

WOO HOOOOOO!!!! Take it all off baby!!!

sorry got a little carried away.......I'd love to see how the custom intake comes out for that. I've been eyeing the same hood.

I really hate that hood but I must admit it dont look bad on the "batmobile" later 3rd gen bird like yours

Yea. Dr. Willie didn't like it either!!!! Ha!!!

But he told me to get my a$$ into getting it functional.

Yes. This is a must.

Later B4Ctom1.

Incredible car my friend! Absolutely superb! :hail: :hail:

A couple of questions.....

If you were starting the project over again would you do it all the same way or are there things you would change?

What are your ideas for routing the ram air intake to make it functional?

Which supplier did you get the hood from? Where their any fitment issues with it or did the panels line up pretty easily.

Thanks, Gordon.

If you were starting the project over again would you do it all the same way or are there things you would change?

Remove smog pump.

Added SLP 1 3/4" headers instead of the 1 5/8".

Added better heads.

Changed cast pistons to forged.

That's it.

What are your ideas for routing the ram air intake to make it functional?

Don't know yet. I have been advised to not use 90 deg bends. So...........

Which supplier did you get the hood from? Where their any fitment issues with it or did the panels line up pretty easily.

www.RAMAIRHOOD.com

Need 2 pints of primer and lots of blocking. Fit nice though. My body guy likes perfection!!! Klein's Automotive in Kenner, Louisiana.

mypontiac:- May I ask which Crane Cam it is you have in the car?

Which cylinder heads are planning on getting?

Would long tube headers be alright for an application like this?
The article about headers on www.tenperf.com says "The length directly controls the power band in the R.P.M. range. Longer tube lengths pull the torque down to a lower R.P.M. range. Shorter tubes move the power band up into a higher R.P.M. range.... This is what is meant by the term "Tuned Length". The tube length is tuned to make the engine operate at a desired R.P.M. range."

I currently have long tube headers but was wondering if these, combined with a similar set-up to your own would result in "too much" low down torque, to the detriment of peak hp levels.

Sorry for all the questions!

Hi Dr G,

I am using SLP headers which I consider great!

1 5/8" dia was recommended for the 305. But I am thinking now that the 1 3/4" would have been better for the blown car.

I am not real knowledgable about the long tube issue. So I have to defer on this issue.

The best cylinder heads that I have seen for the 305 or 350 are the Air Flow Reasearch heads. But they have discontinued the 305 heads.

You can still get them custom made through ThunderRacing, but it will cost you $$$$

I have a Crane 2032 cam.

Just ordered a next size smaller pulley from Dorian at ATI. Push it to the limit baby!!!

I also just installed a MSD Digital 6 ignition system. I am hoping that it will help get the RPM past 4500. This is their claim and also advised by the Master Willie!!!

Will let you know how the new dynos go. Trying for 450 FWHP to get close to Tim B. with his stock bottom end 305 Nitros set up!!!

Wish me luck. : )

Nice setup. I just have a few questions. Where did you relocate the horns too? Also did you have to move the vaccum ball? Where did you move it?

I am currently installing ATI 3 core in my Formula. This is where I am at right now. Thanks