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09-26-2003, 07:26 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: sweden
Posts: 1,972
Car: GTA -89 Engine: Blown 415" Transmission: Probuilt TH700 | Twin supercharged TPI inside A friend has a nice "project".......
Twin supercharger, to have more boost at lower rpm's..... |
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09-26-2003, 07:27 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: sweden
Posts: 1,972
Car: GTA -89 Engine: Blown 415" Transmission: Probuilt TH700 | one more..... |
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09-26-2003, 11:47 AM
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#3 | | TGO Supporter
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maryland; USA
Posts: 11,613
| :rockon: |
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09-26-2003, 02:27 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Stevens Point Wisconsin
Posts: 672
Car: 1991 Formula Engine: 350 firebreathing inches of Small Block Chevrolet Transmission: A 700R4 that has trouble handling the formentioned 350. | What does that guy do for a living? He would make a great plumber. Looks like a boost maze in there.
Later, Garrett
__________________ 1984 Z/28 Camaro, 406c.i. (383 Horse, 456 Torque) 13.6 1/4 mile, sold 11/25/01
1982 Z/28 Camaro, 355c.i. (419 Horse, 406 Torque) 12.9 1/4 mile, sold 5/28/02
1980 T / A Firebird, 400c.i. (150 Horse, 400 Torque  ) T-tops, WS6, sold 7/23/02
1991_B4C_Camaro, 350c.i. (260 Horse, 365 Torque) 14.2 1/4 mile, sold 1/25/03.
1967_SC__Camaro, 302c.i. being built right now, Turbo 400, and a 3.73 disc rear.
1980 El Camino SS, 350c.i. w/ a Garrett Turbo @ 10psi
1975 Monza Spyder 262c.i. V-8, Full fiberglass body, 13.6 1/4 mile, sold 5/28/03.
1991___Formula___ 350c.i. Hypertech Chip, K&N Filters, B&M Shift kit, and loaded.
R.I.P. Dale Earnhardt
(If Richard Petty was the King, Dale Earnhardt was G0D) |
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09-26-2003, 02:57 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,332
Car: Drop Top Z Engine: 383 LT1 Big Turbo Transmission: Th400 Axle/Gears: moser 9inch w/3.00 | sweet |
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09-27-2003, 01:24 PM
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#6 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: San Luis Obispo California
Posts: 277
| those look like turbos that he built a pulley on the turbine end of the shaft.
Does the drivers side compressor feed the passengers side one? thats what it looks like
that is kick *** |
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09-27-2003, 01:51 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Texas
Posts: 729
Car: Right now 93 Lumina Engine: 3.4 DOHC Transmission: 4T60-E | Quote: Originally posted by Zac's92 those look like turbos that he built a pulley on the turbine end of the shaft............... | Is that possible??
Does superchargers are called centrifical superchargers they work like turbos except they use belts instead of exhaust to power the compresser
Last edited by D M N : 09-27-2003 at 01:54 PM.
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10-03-2003, 06:55 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: NJ
Posts: 907
Car: 84 z28/91 RS Engine: L69/3.1 Transmission: T5/700r4 | Quote: Originally posted by D M N Is that possible??
Does superchargers are called centrifical superchargers they work like turbos except they use belts instead of exhaust to power the compresser | you probably could, but the compressor wouldn't spin fast enough with out a gear box multiplying the RPM. But to answer your second question, yes, instead of exhaust they use a belt off your crank to spool up. |
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10-06-2003, 01:23 AM
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#9 | | Member
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: albuquerque
Posts: 333
Car: 1992 Z28 Engine: 350 L98 w/ D-1SC Transmission: POS 700-R4 | Mother of all that is some serious plumbing!!! I thought my compartment was *tight*. Anyway whats the deal with the belt that drives it? It looks like its about a 1/2 an inch long?
__________________ 505.3rwhp/640.3rwtq |
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10-06-2003, 03:08 AM
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#10 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: San Luis Obispo California
Posts: 277
| If you look closely at the pictures there is some kind of step up ratio to get the impeller to spin faster. The shaft with the pulley on it is not inline with the center of the compressor housing. there has to be a gear multiplication in there. |
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10-06-2003, 12:57 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: NJ
Posts: 907
Car: 84 z28/91 RS Engine: L69/3.1 Transmission: T5/700r4 | Quote: Originally posted by Zac's92 If you look closely at the pictures there is some kind of step up ratio to get the impeller to spin faster. The shaft with the pulley on it is not inline with the center of the compressor housing. there has to be a gear multiplication in there. | exactly; and it spins that compressor up at around 60,000 + rpm |
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10-06-2003, 12:58 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: NJ
Posts: 907
Car: 84 z28/91 RS Engine: L69/3.1 Transmission: T5/700r4 | One question though, why is your buddy using TPI? |
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10-08-2003, 05:45 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Timrå, Sweden
Posts: 930
Car: 1984 Corvette Engine: Turbo 350 Transmission: 4L80E with TCI T-Com | gta324, We must have a common friend =)
Yes, those are two superchargers that he built using the compressor half of two huge turbos and the gearboxes from a electrical wheelchair. The grearbox is a step down from the electrical motor to the wheel axle, but he is running it backwards as a step up gerbox instead. The belt pulley is on the wheel axle.
If you look you will also see that he made the dump valve and fuel pressure regulator from billet aluminum. The box behind the right headlight is an air-water chargecooler that he also built.
This a few pictures I took.
(Click to enlarge) 
__________________ Jonas Bylund
Last edited by JoBy : 10-08-2003 at 05:53 AM.
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10-08-2003, 05:53 AM
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#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: sweden
Posts: 1,972
Car: GTA -89 Engine: Blown 415" Transmission: Probuilt TH700 | Yes...
We use to update each other about our projects......
Hows it running?
/N. |
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10-08-2003, 05:58 AM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Timrå, Sweden
Posts: 930
Car: 1984 Corvette Engine: Turbo 350 Transmission: 4L80E with TCI T-Com | He is having some problems ... He is blowing the pipes apart and the chargecooler exploded in half ... but that has been repaird and should be much stronger now.
__________________ Jonas Bylund |
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10-08-2003, 01:10 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Diego
Posts: 511
| that has **** Datsun, all over it. http://www.gatorsuperchargers.com
riddle of the day:
What do you call a turbo, that is belt driven that has a step'd up drive ratio?
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how about a centrifugal blower?
BW
__________________ Bobalos
www.XtrmBowties.com
r71chevy@earthlink.net
<>< |
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10-08-2003, 01:21 PM
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#17 | | TGO Supporter
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Posts: 4,726
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE Engine: HSR on a ZZ4 clone Transmission: built 700R4 Axle/Gears: stock w/later torsen posi ······································· Car: 91 Z28 street legal drag Engine: 352 dstrk 400 w/P1sc Transmission: TH350 w/brake Axle/Gears: Currie 9+ w/4.11 limited slip | OMG I didnt see that before! He has the staged! one into the other! |
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10-08-2003, 04:14 PM
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#18 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
| I can imagine that some of you wonder why anyone spend time to install a 2 stage compressor under the hood.
I have since the last 4 years a homebuild single centrifugal compressor installed (se pictures above), based on a Schwitzer truck supercharger with very good result. Maximum boost with this setup is 7,5 psi at 75 000 rpm. My goal is from the beginning to see how strong an almost standard 350 TPI can be, because of the TPI intake is this engine not a high hp setup but very strong at low rpm.
355 TPI
8,5:1 CR KB pistons
Compcams camshaft (for supercharged engines)
1 5/8" headers
Saab Aero injectors and boostpump
Computer is a standard xxx165 ECM MAF rebuild to a Holden xxx808 MAP (2 bar Buick)
Techedge Wide band lambda + EGT
With the new compressor based on a KKK supercharger in serial with the Schwitzer compressor I expect to see 20 psi boost at 5500 rpm and no belt slip.
I have run this 2 stage setup for a couple of weeks and it seems to work, high average hp that suits my 2.73 rearend (except a few bugs like a exploded aftercooler). Two hours ago my th700 went to heaven, maybe time for a 4l80e.
Last edited by schwitzer : 10-09-2003 at 01:43 AM.
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10-08-2003, 06:12 PM
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#19 | | TGO Supporter
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming
Posts: 4,726
Car: 1992 B4C 1LE Engine: HSR on a ZZ4 clone Transmission: built 700R4 Axle/Gears: stock w/later torsen posi ······································· Car: 91 Z28 street legal drag Engine: 352 dstrk 400 w/P1sc Transmission: TH350 w/brake Axle/Gears: Currie 9+ w/4.11 limited slip | I wasnt knocking it as a matter of fact I would like to know what kind of pressures are seen between them |
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10-08-2003, 11:39 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: sweden
Posts: 1,972
Car: GTA -89 Engine: Blown 415" Transmission: Probuilt TH700 | Welcome Kristian...
/Niklas |
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10-09-2003, 01:39 AM
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#21 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
| I must correct my last reply, 20 psi of boost is what the compressors are capable to generate for the required cfm. The higher boost the better,then I can get high boost at low rpm and at 5500 rpm(engine) bleed out air to the atmosphere thru an adjustable regulator (big pressureregulator controlled by a electric solenoid) to avoid too high pressure. Maybe a turbo supercharger have been better to achieve this, but this is a more unusual solution.
Pressure between the compressors are theoretically 7,5 psi at 5500 rpm (have not been able to measure that yet) then the 2nd compressor will se higher airdensity and boost the pressure up to 18-19 psi. // Schwitzer |
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10-09-2003, 04:08 AM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 5,483
Car: 87TA 87Formula 97TA 92K1500Blazer | Quote: Originally posted by schwitzer I can imagine that some of you wonder why anyone spend time to install a 2 stage compressor under the hood. | Makes sense to me… it’s a cool bit of “doing it your own way” mixed in with “can you make it work…” Quote: 355 TPI
8,5:1 CR KB pistons
Compcams camshaft (for supercharged engines)
1 5/8" headers
Saab Aero injectors and boostpump
Computer is a standard xxx165 ECM MAF rebuild to a Holden xxx808 MAP (2 bar Buick) | Hum… can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that you’re running your standard 165 with a 2 bar map in the place of the maf? If so I’d love to hear details since I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone doing something like that (closest is probably converting the GN maf setup to map) and I have a car with a 165 in it that will eventually see some boost. Quote: Originally posted by B4Ctom1 I wasnt knocking it as a matter of fact I would like to know what kind of pressures are seen between them | I’m betting (correct me if I’m wrong Schwitzer) that part of the deal is that you can’t really spin up the compressors to where they typically would spin up to driven by a turbine so the staged setup is to accommodate for the bigger compressors spinning slower. Centrifugal superchargers use the same basic layout of a turbocharger, but use compressor wheels designed especially for the lower rpm’s that they typically see.
Huh, that raises an interesting question… what did you do for the gear box output shaft bearings, anything special? Not many bearings are rated for 75,000rpm and the setup used in turbos will not play nice with the side loads that you’d get from a gear box. |
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10-09-2003, 05:05 AM
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#23 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999 Location: sweden
Posts: 1,972
Car: GTA -89 Engine: Blown 415" Transmission: Probuilt TH700 | Crossfire: Go to DIY PROM board and do a search for 808 code and you will find all the info you'll need.
(MAF to MAP posts)
You could also run a 2-bar MAP with the 730ECM the same princip. But with the 808 code you can use your old 165 ECM and dont have to repin and so on..... |
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10-09-2003, 06:41 AM
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#24 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
| Quote: Originally posted by 83 Crossfire TA Makes sense to me… it’s a cool bit of “doing it your own way” mixed in with “can you make it work…”
Hum… can you elaborate on this? Are you saying that you’re running your standard 165 with a 2 bar map in the place of the maf? If so I’d love to hear details since I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone doing something like that (closest is probably converting the GN maf setup to map) and I have a car with a 165 in it that will eventually see some boost.
I’m betting (correct me if I’m wrong Schwitzer) that part of the deal is that you can’t really spin up the compressors to where they typically would spin up to driven by a turbine so the staged setup is to accommodate for the bigger compressors spinning slower. Centrifugal superchargers use the same basic layout of a turbocharger, but use compressor wheels designed especially for the lower rpm’s that they typically see.
Huh, that raises an interesting question… what did you do for the gear box output shaft bearings, anything special? Not many bearings are rated for 75,000rpm and the setup used in turbos will not play nice with the side loads that you’d get from a gear box. | Yes, my relative small compressorwheels have that disadvantage. I´m running them at the lower end of the compressormap (effic.), they should run at 110 000 rpm for best result. That´s the reason for my 2 stage coupled superchargers.
The biggest problem from beginning is bearings and output shaft, outputshaft must be as short as possible and the bearings must have large clearence (gap between moving parts).
Today I use 6202 ZTBH C3 bearings rated only 40 000 rpm, they can stand one season and are cheap (20$ each).
Yes I use my old 165 MAF with 2 bar MAP, it works fine. Some cables must be relocated and some tables must be rescaled but this is simple. You will also lose your knockretard, in my opinion they have too many false signals especially when using a colder thermostat (more noise from engine). Instead I uses a medical stetoscope bolted beside knocksensor, then I can hear pinging with my ears. Have also connect ESC module to a LED for visual control.
// Kristian
sorry for my school english  |
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10-15-2003, 01:24 AM
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#25 | | Member
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fyffe/Rainsville, Alabama
Posts: 257
Car: 1986 IROC-Z, 1990 RS Engine: 383 Stroker TPI, 350 About To Go In Transmission: 700R4 W/ Shift Kit And Stall, 700R4 W/ Shift Kit | Okay, Obviously a plumer can't polish....
All that wonderful motor and that TPI ain't shiney?
WTF is up with that?
To the owner nice...very nice....but polish the plenum and runners please.
:hail:*DROOL*:hail:
Sorry I'm a nit picker |
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10-15-2003, 06:34 AM
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#26 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Sweden
Posts: 4
| Quote: Originally posted by AlabamaThunder Okay, Obviously a plumer can't polish....
All that wonderful motor and that TPI ain't shiney?
WTF is up with that?
To the owner nice...very nice....but polish the plenum and runners please.
:hail:*DROOL*:hail:
Sorry I'm a nit picker | The only excuse I have for the dirty TPI is that a polished surface is not optimal for cooling  and dirt can´t affect the tourqe curve.
// Kristian |
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10-15-2003, 10:42 AM
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#27 | | Moderator
Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,827
Car: 2000 Trans Am Engine: LS1 Transmission: T56 | kristian, if I were a betting man, Id bet that polishing wouldnt hurt the cooling much in this case. LOL
either way, looks damn nice to me!! 
__________________ 86 IROC: 346ci LS1, drag radial spec T88, w/a intercooler (currently building) www.hustonstreetracing.com
-=ICON Motorsports=- |
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