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Don't try it! I actually bought this exact pump and it did not work. It has a built in pressure relief valve that is so light it wouldn't pump the oil (the vacuum on the inlet side actually pulled the valve open!). I thought about plugging the valve, but I didn't feel it was worth a try. I sold the pump on eBay.
And just to clear things up, the pump I am running is NOT a water pump. It was specifically designed for oil. It is commonly used by farmers as bulk oil transfer pumps. It uses the highest temp materials Shur-Flo has available (rated at 180°F). The reason I felt comfortable using it is because of this:
This is the exact same pump I am running, except mine has a heat sink on it. Yes, I know it says they modified it, but they say they modified it for oil compatability, not heat. And for double the price of what I paid for mine, it was not worth it (my pump only cost $95.00) BTM, I'm going on 7,000 miles on this pump with no glitches at all. And rebuild kits are only $15.00- if your worried about the pump you could stick new diaphragms and valves in it at every other oil change.
I know you have been questioned to death on this setup and I believe I've read the entire thread but I've got one too.Do you have a sump for the return oil or is it straight to the pump?Thanks
Originally posted by 89JYturbo Don't try it! I actually bought this exact pump and it did not work. It has a built in pressure relief valve that is so light it wouldn't pump the oil (the vacuum on the inlet side actually pulled the valve open!). I thought about plugging the valve, but I didn't feel it was worth a try. I sold the pump on eBay.
And just to clear things up, the pump I am running is NOT a water pump. It was specifically designed for oil. It is commonly used by farmers as bulk oil transfer pumps. It uses the highest temp materials Shur-Flo has available (rated at 180°F). The reason I felt comfortable using it is because of this:
This is the exact same pump I am running, except mine has a heat sink on it. Yes, I know it says they modified it, but they say they modified it for oil compatability, not heat. And for double the price of what I paid for mine, it was not worth it (my pump only cost $95.00) BTM, I'm going on 7,000 miles on this pump with no glitches at all. And rebuild kits are only $15.00- if your worried about the pump you could stick new diaphragms and valves in it at every other oil change.
Originally posted by Mike-91 Formula 350 I know you have been questioned to death on this setup and I believe I've read the entire thread but I've got one too.Do you have a sump for the return oil or is it straight to the pump?Thanks
Thats a great question. There is not a sump, but I think one would be beneficial. I use a tubo timer to run the pump for 30 seconds after the engine is shut off. If the engine is shut off without the pump run for an additional 10-15 seconds, the exhaust smokes when you start it back up (especially if the rear of the car is down-hill). Having a sump would cure this, but would also take away some ground clearance. I got the turbo timer for $25 so it was the cheapest and easiest solution.
what if it was just a little sump. I was going to use one of THESE for a oil sump on a forgotten turbo goped idea by plugging the bottom. It is made to allow the convetional fill cap on a 5.0 equpped with a set of aftermarket valve covers and a push in style grommet.
I just browsed this thread, and have a couple of comments. I've seen people posting about an inter cooler for this set up. It's already there. The pipe you use to run your boost pressure from the turbo to the engine is exposed to ambient air temp all the way to the engine. For California guys who want a turbo, this is the only one that would be smog legal. The turbo is installed after the cat, so that's legal. Plumb the intake correctly so it doesn't by pass any smog equipment, and that is also legal. In fact I think it would work well with a maf system to plumb the intake pipe into the maf. Anything installed before the first smog component on the intake side or after the cat on the exhaust side is deemed legal and not interfering with smog control.
Man, there is just soooo much unbelievable BS in these STS turbo threads… at one point I read through this whole thing and started commenting on everything and then just decided what’s the point… and gave up.
Anyway, lets pick one thing and run with it…
Quote:
“I've seen people posting about an inter cooler for this set up. It's already there. The pipe you use to run your boost pressure from the turbo to the engine is exposed to ambient air temp all the way to the engine.”
(sorry, not picking on you, but it’s just the thing that stood out most on this page so far):
- air temp is nowhere near ambient down there… typically, on a sunny summer day air temps can be 20-40* over ambient within a few inches of the ground. Add that it’s within a few inches of an exhaust pipe that is going to be many hundreds of degrees, I wouldn’t be surprised if it pretty much stays >50* over ambient.
- If there was any meaningful heat exchange going on there why do they ceramic coat that tube (you can take that as an argument for “no real heat exchange” or for “they’re not sure what they’re doing much past taking people’s money”)
WRT to the pump, someone find me a part number and I can probably find one cheap… I’m betting that I might be able to get a decent price for the Weldon diff pump, but that will still be expensive.
WRT to the pump, someone find me a part number and I can probably find one cheap… I’m betting that I might be able to get a decent price for the Weldon diff pump, but that will still be expensive.
theres someone in the local Fbody club that might be buying their LS1 camaro kit...... if they do get teh STS kit, i'll be sure to get the pumps part number.. and lots of pics.
Originally posted by MrDude_1 theres someone in the local Fbody club that might be buying their LS1 camaro kit...... if they do get teh STS kit, i'll be sure to get the pumps part number.. and lots of pics.
I have an 87 el camino with a 350, RV cam, performer intake, headers, and custom exhaust in it(all I can do and still keep it legal). I have been looking for either a supercharger or a turbo unit for it, the kicker is I live in CA.(I don't want to move) so smog legal has been the biggest problem, a rear mounted turbo would solve this problmem even though its not an optimum setup. I would rather not pay STS there price and would love to do this myself. The only problem is I've never worked on turbo unit's before but am willing to try. The first question would be what size turbo unit should I use. As a side note me elkie has a Computer controlled Carb. would it and the computer be able to handle a turbo system? If anybody can help steer me in the right direction that would be a big help.
Originally posted by AUGUST As a side note me elkie has a Computer controlled Carb. would it and the computer be able to handle a turbo system? If anybody can help steer me in the right direction that would be a big help.
August
I know next to nothing about carbs (just enough to take them apart and clean them), but I see this as being a problem. I personally would seriously consider swapping an L98 because I know how to tune them for the boost. Blow-through carb systems add some more problems to the mix. I'm not saying its impossible, but I don't know how to tell you to go about it.
Maybe try starting a fresh thread about it to get some more views. This theread is very old and I'm sure most aren't even bothering to follow it anymore.
Originally posted by 83 Crossfire TA
[b]Man, there is just soooo much unbelievable BS in these STS turbo threads… at one point I read through this whole thing and started commenting on everything and then just decided what’s the point… and gave up.
Please tell me you didn't just realize that now.
I think thats the reason these systems recieve so little respect. There is just so much BS floating around about them, and very few facts. Thats why I built this system.
I would like to know about the accual piping of your system. I don't know that much about turbo's but I do know that the turbo boosts the pressure and the BOV releases the pressure during shifts, but every time a see a set up the BOV is on another pipe going in another dirrection. I saw pitchers of under the hood of your car and the piping from the turbo to the intake was a dirrect shoot but then I see your BOV off to the side with piping running infront of your radiator, where is this piping going. I had a TT stealth and it had a vacuum silinoid for cantroling boost, does you set up have any of this. As you can see I really need help on the accual intake piping.
I think thats the reason these systems recieve so little respect. There is just so much BS floating around about them,
I've been checking out this guys progress and I think the rear mounted turbo is working OK for a 5000+ lb 4 wheel drive.He's running a 5.3 with a cam and bigger injectors.
>>>>>
New times for my STS'd Z71
I decided to run the truck one more time and see if the water soaking hurt anything (long story but involved suckin water into the motor). I picked up some C16 on the way there and added 5ga to about 10ga of 91 octane I already had in the tank.
The weather was great and in the 60s most of the day so I knew times would be good if the motor was not hurt too bad.
I got to the track and weighed the beast in at 5100lbs (had over half a tank of gas and my subwoofers inside). So add me in and race weight = 5250lbs
The first 2 passes were about 13psi due to the cold temps. When I turned up the boost for the 3rd run I only saw about 13.5-14psi through most of the run but as soon as I hit 3rd gear it hit almost 15psi and stuck there. Sad this is, the 60' was worse and I was bouncing off the rev limiter on my 2nd to 3rd gear change which hurt a little too.
At that point I felt I still had enough of a cushion to try to up the boost by half a pound and the temps were getting colder so i turn up the methanol for safety and was ready to try again but recieved a call from Rick @ Synergy who had just got a call from Rick Squires (maker of STS Turbo) and I was told to shut it down and keep it in one piece. Guess there is something going on and I might need the truck to be in working order so I obeyed(sp?) and returned to the pits even though I know I could have went a little faster.
Overall I am VERY excited to finally see some decent #s. I guess the cooler temps and the race gas really did it's work. I can only imagine what I could have done had I used a wideband and some scanning software to make changes and try to max the thing out.
Originally posted by evoluzione1 I would like to know about the accual piping of your system. I don't know that much about turbo's but I do know that the turbo boosts the pressure and the BOV releases the pressure during shifts, but every time a see a set up the BOV is on another pipe going in another dirrection. I saw pitchers of under the hood of your car and the piping from the turbo to the intake was a dirrect shoot but then I see your BOV off to the side with piping running infront of your radiator, where is this piping going. I had a TT stealth and it had a vacuum silinoid for cantroling boost, does you set up have any of this. As you can see I really need help on the accual intake piping.
The hose connecting to the BOV simply routes the pressurized air to the BOV, and the BOV dumps to open air when you shift. Your stealth probably vented the dumped air back into the intake system since it used a mass air-flow sensor. In the case of your stealth, the BOV was probably called a recirculation valve instead of a BOV.
Sweet time from that Silverado. Maybe that will be my next remote turbo project!
Originally posted by rtkjadams We still need a better pump option.
Ray
8k trouble free miles on my $95 SHURflo pump. Still working very well, and its driven daily (1hr round trip). Plus rebuild kits are only $15 if needed. The SHURflo pump is rated only to 180°F, but I think that was determined at max pressure output (factory set to 60psi). Since there is no (or very little) pressure load on the pump, it makes life easier for the diaphragms.
BTW, I have added a turbo timer that just runs the electric pump after the engine is shut down. Since there is no sump under the turbo to collect the drain oil once the pump stops running, it would puff smoke when you start it up if you forgot to turn the key back on after parking it. Previously, I just cycled the key back to run for 10 seconds or so to prevent this (the oil pump runs off ignition power), but now with the turbo timer it's all automatic. Just makes it more user friendly. (I wonder if STS uses something like this, because they don't use a sump under the turbo either??). If I build another system like this, I will just fab up a small sump to fit under the turbo (see previous posts in this thread).
Never gave it a thought that an oil cooler could double as a sump. I'm kind of liking that idea.
The turbo oil drain should always be as free flowing as possible, but in this case where we have a pump 'pulling' the oil from the turbo, I'm betting it would work fine. Can't be any worse than my oil drain- it comes out of the turbo and then goes straight up to the pump, which is mounted in the trunk (some of my earliest pics show it mounted under the spare tire well, but it was only there for a few days until I moved it into the trunk- I'm told the pump is not waterproof, so the trunk is a safe place for it).
I like those new ones with the extruded aluminum fins. They apper to be a litte heavier built. Thats a plus if it ois mounted low in the rear of a vehicle. I wonder how it's effieciency compares to a standard unit??
Is the frothy oil going to go into one of those though?
89JYturbo- How big is the drain leading to your pump now? and does it drain down into the pump or does the pump acutlaly sit beside it and suck the oil out?
Nice work. I'm wondering though, how much lag is there? From the looks of it, you'd think that it would take forever to make some boost, but then I guess your times prove that wrong lol.
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>1986 Trans Am - 305 LG4 - 700R4 - Electric cutout - no cat - 180* 'stat - Manual fan switch - Open element - Trans cooler - Crane 1.6 rockers - Comp 981 valvesprings My Cardomain page / My other cardomain page for my 87 v6
Originally posted by 305q_ta86 Nice work. I'm wondering though, how much lag is there? From the looks of it, you'd think that it would take forever to make some boost, but then I guess your times prove that wrong lol.
The lag is very minor. All 10psi is in by 3000 rpm. With a BOV, the boost is there immediately after a shift.
When you launch from a standing start, the boost gauge may only hit 4psi or so in first gear because the engine accelerates faster than the turbo can spool in first gear. If you flat shift into second, the full 10psi is there almost immediately.
Originally posted by nightrider87 89JYturbo- How big is the drain leading to your pump now? and does it drain down into the pump or does the pump acutlaly sit beside it and suck the oil out?
The pump is actually above the turbo, in the trunk. The oil line exits the bottom of the turbo and just loops straight up to the trunk area, and it has an ID of 1/2". The outlet hose of the pump feeding back to the engine (into the front valve cover) is 3/8"ID. Check out the second pic in this thread- you can see the routing of the drain at the bottom of the turbo. I will try to get some more pics of it. I think I'm going to start a new thread though, since I have already used my 3-pic limit here.
Quote:
Originally posted by rtkjadams Do you have any pictures of where your pump is mounted now, and what is the part # for the pump?
The pump P/N is 8000-643-236 (IIRC). I will check tomorro after I take some pics of the pump itself.
BTW- I'm planning to drag race the Z24 again tomorro, so we'll try for some even better times!
Originally posted by 89JYturbo I will try to get some more pics of it. I think I'm going to start a new thread though, since I have already used my 3-pic limit here.
I’m sure that the mods will correct me if it’s a problem, but I wouldn’t worry about it. I’m pretty sure that is a “lets keep things reasonable in the appearance forums deal, that as long as you’re posting something that’s actually showing something useful and not excessively large you’ll be OK
Here is a picture of the trunk mounted oil pump. The heat sinks were removed so you can see the label and PN (8000-643-236). You can also see the components of muy homemade boost controller (the vacuum solenoid and bleed valve for the adjustable Stage II setting).
Notice that the pump is not mounted solidly to the floor. This is simply because the hydraulic hoses I used were too stiff and did not allow the pump to lie flat. It I did this install again, I would use 90° fittings on the pump inlet and outlet for a cleaner installation.
We had beautiful racing weather, and some pretty good air (61°F, but it was quite warm in the sun).
My best ET of the day was a 14.085 @ 97.91, 2.104 60'. The trap speed was low because the clutch was slipping. I rode the clutch out on the launch to keep the tires from spinning, and apperently I let the clutch slip too much, because it didn't pull the rpms below 5k for the rest of the run! I wasn't sure if I should stay in it with the clutch slipping like that, but of course I didn't lift! I guess once the clutch got hot on the launch, it couldn't do it's job for the rest of the run. I was wondering how long the clutch was going to last, as I bought the car with 107,000 miles on it, and haven't touched the clutch since (it turned 181,000 miles on the way to the track- there are now 8k miles on the turbo system!).
The next run, I held the RPM at 3k, and launched by side stepping the clutch. The clutch didn't slip this time, and niether did the tires. It bogged the engine down below 2k rpm, and I got a nasty 2.399 60'. But, I got my best ever trap speed- 14.134@102.98 . I can';t wait to see what it will run with a nice, clean run. I just can't seem to pull one off. Of course, a new clutch will make it easier, but I honestly feel even with this clutch it should have been able to beat my best run of 13.9@99mph.
I know this is not a real good idea but the turbo Saab I had would build some nice boost if I held the e-brake and slipped the clutch just enough to get the boost started, good enough to frag the trans twice.
Originally posted by Mike-91 Formula 350 I know this is not a real good idea but the turbo Saab I had would build some nice boost if I held the e-brake and slipped the clutch just enough to get the boost started, good enough to frag the trans twice.
Then why would I want to do this? J/K
I forgot to mention the water/alky injection system I added. When I get more time, I will start a new thread detailing my alky injection system (it cost less than $140 complete). During the summer, the premium fuel was enough to keep out of detonation at 10psi. As the fall came in and the weather cooled off, I was getting some detonation at higher rpms, and noticed the O2 readings were starting to go leaner (.800 range). The alcohol adds a little fuel, and the water prevents detonation. Remember- I have to play it safe, as it is my ride to work every day!
89JYTURBO, I heard you "met" my buddy Joe in his Sunfire in the lancaster area on the highway. He was pretty impressed how easily you toasted him, lol. I just got IM'ed by a mutual friend of ours to give me the news that you were spotted. Still interested in the project, but I have too many other projects giong on right now.
Going to be trying this on my '97 Chevy 1500 4x4. Picked up a 12 valve cummins turbo for $150, vortech adjustible FMU for under $50, found this "oil return pump" http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/mocal1.htm
will be putting the MAF/IAT on the inlet side of turbo and use 2.5" exhaust tubing from turbo back to intake. Not sure if I need the inline fuel pump that Vortech sells with their supercharger, but I'm only shooting for 5psi.
Originally posted by jbeier 89JYTURBO, I heard you "met" my buddy Joe in his Sunfire in the lancaster area on the highway. He was pretty impressed how easily you toasted him, lol. I just got IM'ed by a mutual friend of ours to give me the news that you were spotted. Still interested in the project, but I have too many other projects giong on right now.
Sweet. Was it the black one with a large wing on the rear?
No offense to him or his ride, but that was a pretty easy race- I wondered if he was actaully in it!
I feel guilty racing on the street, but I just can't resist sometimes!
Replaced 185k mile 2.8 with an '02 3400 V6 from a Venture van:
<img src="http://www.khturbo.net/images/Z24images/3400swap/Complete%203400%20Engine%20Bay%201.jpg" height=480 width=640>
Replaced seriously undersized Garrett TBO3 45 Trim with a T3/T4 hybrid (TO4B V trim compressor and T3 stage II .63 A/R turbine) and an external Tial wastegate:
<img src="http://www.khturbo.net/images/Z24images/Phase%20II%20RMT%20System/Z24%20RMT-2%20Phase2.jpg" height=480 width=640>
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