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WOW I just seen that . Email them wondering whats up myself.
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
got a link ? I emailed them today . Hopefully he gets back to me
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If you mean anything from thsi page .... nothing there looks like the kit I got.
__________________ PROJECT UGLY DUCKLING
1989 10:1 353 L98Edlebrock base and runners ( really ported)ZZ4cam ,1 3/4 SLP shorties 083 heads ...cleaned up andstuded w/1.52 rr , LT4 valve springs and retainers and a 3 angle valve job
suspension mods (Hotchkis LCA's PH bar, KYB shocks and struts)
T-5 3.73
T-62 turbo to be installed next ...Exhaust clip ...gota let it load.... http://media.putfile.com/My-exhaust-clip
Last edited by D's89IROCZ; 04-23-2006 at 09:49 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Those have been out for awhile now. Unless they changed there design here lately they don't have the quality or look of BBS Designs headers. We've discussed SS ones before and came to the conclusion there way to thin of metal.
Not all products have been removed. The turbochargers, emblems, intake ducting, and other things are still there. Looks like they pulled all their kits and headers though (at least the ones I checked).
The ones I was refering to are only on their ebay site and they only list them every so often - http://http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotor...%3AUS%3A1&rd=1
This link may expire at some point because it's an ended listing.
Looks pretty close to me anyway.
Actually you are right those do look close... very close. Actually that header looks about the exact same design. You can still tell by the thickness though it doesn't have the same quality. The BBS kit I ordered was listed as 1/8" wall thickness.
That pic on the left came right off the ebay ad the previous member posted for ssautochrome. I figured I would attach it before the ebay link dies. As you can see though the walls look way to thin. I wouldn't be surprised if they fatigue and crack over time.
Just sad it looks like BBS Designs is wrapping up there site. They make awesome stuff. Hopefully there just redesigning the kits.
__________________ 1990 Formula 350 WS6: 383 SBC Eagle 4340 Balanced, 10:1 CR, AFR Race Ready 210 Heads, 1.6 Pro Mags, Girdles, Rev Kit, Solid Roller 242/248 0.570/0.576, Pro Systems 950 HP, Ported Victor Jr, MSD Ignition, Hooker LTs, Mufflex Y-pipe, 4" exhaust, Spohn Tq Arm, LCAs, Brackets, Eibach Rear Drag Springs, Comp Eng Drag Shocks, TDS Sway bushings & end links, SFCs, BMR Wonderbar, 8 Point Roll Bar, driveshaft hoop
2010: 291 RWHP @ 5100 335 RWTQ @ 3100 [Blown intake gasket and leaking vac Demon Carb]
2011: Back to Dyno Soon Hopefully!
Current Projects: Spohn K-Member, Drag Struts, Strut Mounts, Spohn A Arms
Recent Completed Projects: 31x19x1.25" Radiator & Shroud, 18" Kicker CVR Subs w/ fiberglass box, $20 Vacuum TC Lockup Kit
Hello everyone. For those of you asking about our kits and stuff, yes we are discontinuing them. We already got sold out our last parts we had on stock, but we are keeping the jigs and some flanges around for our personal projects.
The reason; SS Autochrome. Someone bought our kit as you all know send it China or God knows where and copied. They are now making exact cheap copies of our sweated and hard devloped kit. The sorry thing is that they are making it them so dam nice looking that anyone could be fooled and get hooked by the looks "wow, stainless steel", and any buyer will get a show quality setup, but just that and only that. I bet that those headers will crack like fresh soda crackers after a while of use, but the sad thing is that they are so cheap and good looking that anyone will be tempted and fooled by these copies.
The solution; we will not work our ____ out to develop any more kits for them to copy. We are also a stainless steel sheet metal fabricators for the pharmaceutical industry so we are going to concentrate more on that area.
The sad thing; Those of you who wanted to get a good quality and long lasting kit, but since we dont know how differ the true buyer from the China spy, we discontinued the kits. We are still offering other parts but no headers and or kits.
Off topic;
fireturd350: We got your email, the headers and turbos will be coated by Friday, shipping will take place next week.
Here is a pic of the current project; Turbo4
Last edited by BBSDesigns; 12-30-2006 at 12:41 PM.
Unfortunately, this type of "theft" occurs quite frequently and copyright laws mean absolutely nothing to those companies that copy and reproduce these parts/kits in China and Taiwan. In fact, some U.S. companies' products are literally made overseas with the claim "Made in U.S.A.", which is false and misleading. I can name one of these companies but will withhold this at this time, pending a lawsuit against them.
__________________ Willie
1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible
305 TPI / 5-speed
Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998
Sad to see something like this happen. Only takes one idiot trying to ripe off a design to make a quick buck to ruin it for the rest of us. Hopefully BBS Designs will come back around eventually and at least start making the headers/kits that were copied. So, we're not trying to copy their designs from pictures with thick wall piping ourselves or fabbing headers from scratch all together. I'm personally not even going to think about buying anything from SS autochrome ever.
Quad turbo projects looks very interesting.
Now I just need to figure out how to force the GF into letting me keep the kit still. Especially if I can't get another one in the future.
That sucks for bbs designs, But i am sorry to say this. They were kinda expensive (what ever) Maybe ssautochrome will crack, but atleast there product is mandral bend and already comes nice. You could always reweld, or before mounting it on weld it on.
Re-weld??? Brilliant. Might as well buy a foundary and tool your own mild steel and S/S.
No I don't own a BBS Designs kit, but I do know what materials and time costs. Their price was reasonable. It is WalMart shoppers like you that believe cheap low quality products can be fixed. I never understood the low quality revolution. It is tough to see it take down reputable companies.
Re-weld??? Brilliant. Might as well buy a foundary and tool your own mild steel and S/S.
No I don't own a BBS Designs kit, but I do know what materials and time costs. Their price was reasonable. It is WalMart shoppers like you that believe cheap low quality products can be fixed. I never understood the low quality revolution. It is tough to see it take down reputable companies.
Midway through my second kit... I wouldn't sell those BBS headers for as cheap as they were selling them! I sold my first kit at $2-300 over parts price, used (I needed a tranny). Those who have seen the pictures, they weren't that great. Those headers took me around 26 hrs to make, so 200 bucks for labor was a rip.
SS autochrome is junk.
Ask the DSM world, they rate below scrap metal for manifolds/headers.
I think only a handfull of the T3 manifolds they sold (out of hundereds) did not fail at the turbo mount.
I used to know a web page (I need to find it again) that sold manifolds in kits that you welded up yourself that the tubing was made of 1/8" IRON and the flanges were 1/2" thick?
They had all kinds of applications.
will edit to include the site if I find it.
But you could go there if you have someone to cut your flanges ( or can find some good 1/2" ones for the rest of the parts as they sell the elbows, "T"'s, straight pipe and mounts...
and after looking at some of the welds on the BBS ones, honestly they did not look like they penitrated well at all, and the paint over it made it look worse.
SS autochrome is junk.
I used to know a web page (I need to find it again) that sold manifolds in kits that you welded up yourself that the tubing was made of 1/8" IRON and the flanges were 1/2" thick?
They had all kinds of applications.
will edit to include the site if I find it.
That is a good shop. Lance at JGSTools.com seems like an honest guy with good products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by V6sucker
and after looking at some of the welds on the BBS ones, honestly they did not look like they penitrated well at all, and the paint over it made it look worse.
The BBS Designs were TIG welded. You can't really tell how well the weld penetration is from a picture. You need to have the welded product in front of you to see how good it is. A giant bead doesn't really mean anything.
That sucks for bbs designs, But i am sorry to say this. They were kinda expensive (what ever) Maybe ssautochrome will crack, but atleast there product is mandral bend and already comes nice. You could always reweld, or before mounting it on weld it on.
I’d love to know who… there’s a number of companies that are known for this kind of stuff, professional products is probably the best known:
A bunch of them are even “American” but only in the sense that they are American companies contracting Chinese companies to make their copies and selling them under their own name.
As long as they don’t actually claim to be the same product it’s hard to chase them down and do anything to them, even if you have a patent, since you have to prove that their product actually infringes on your patent and then you have to PROVE that that enfringement has hurt your own sales to get anywhere, and often you have to chase them through foreign court systems…
BBS I’m sure didn’t have a patent which makes this almost impossible, irrelevant of who or from where they are. I know that I’ve had stuff that I’ve actually made web pages and posted directions on how to make and have had our own, f-body vendors rip off, but since there was no patent or any other kind of protection I just considered it as a loss (and stopped posting anything in that kind of detail and anything _really_ useful that I have posted since then has been copyrighted with a creative commons license, basically making it “you can use it for your own use but you have to pay licensing fees to use this information for profit,” but I’d still have to trace the person down and successfully sue them to claim anything).
In the case of BBS and even more so, MSD, Flexalite, Edelbrock… I’d bet that patent protection isn’t as useful as you’d hope it to be to protect their products and they’d be better served registering trademarks and copyrights for the distinct features of their products. For example, the MSD knockoffs that are coming out are encased in a very similar red with machined ribs aluminum box as the MSD stuff with a similar series number and everything. I’d bet that MSD would actually have more luck if they traidmarked their “red aluminum box” and protecting that then patenting the circuits… (which would have expired by now anyway so they’d have to be updating/changing the electronics and patents to still be protected).
Then the other side of this is where do you draw the line that this is a problem. I’d argue that I’m probably a bigger gearhead then maybe >90% of these types of boards, but at the same time I’d bet that I’ve bought less stuff new then 90% of this list. When it comes to working out a realistic budget for most of these projects, a lot of these prices just don’t make it.
Realistically, I’m more likely to buy tools to make whatever it is that I need then I am to buy whatever it is that I need, and in that market this is much more prevalent. There are tons of companies like Harbor Freight that sell cheap Chinese knockoffs. Now if it’s something that I’m going to get a lot of use out of usually I’ll save up/justify spending money on the good stuff, but with a lot of things that I just need to work, or maybe I just need it to work once or twice buying it for ¼ of what the nice American made version costs is the difference between having one and not having one.
In terms of speed parts I’ve seriously considered the likes of a Professional products manifolds… but somehow every time I managed to snag an edelbrock for slightly cheaper on ebay or traded one for something or whatever… I don’t know if this is really helping or not… I guess I’m propping up the value of he American products by maintaining the resale value and not pumping any money into the chineese economy, but I’m not putting anything immediately into edelbrock’s hands either (it’s hard to pay $2-300 for a manifold that you’re going to cut up anyway…)
OTOH, getting back to BBS… that’s actually a slightly different issue. SSAutochrome is very well known for making products that look and sell well for cheap, and then fall apart later on. They have great feedback on ebay because they sell their stuff, people get it, it looks pretty, they leave feedback… 2 months later when they finally get it on their cars (does anyone ever actually finish projects like this that fast?) and the manifold cracks because it was improperly constructed/welded, turbo gives out because it didn’t have proper bearings installed (and the housing isn’t even machined to hold the correct bearings…) then what? You can’t leave feedback on ebay again (or at that point the first time if it’s been 2 months)…
90tbi305,
Quote:
That sucks for bbs designs, But i am sorry to say this. They were kinda expensive (what ever) Maybe ssautochrome will crack, but atleast there product is mandral bend and already comes nice. You could always reweld, or before mounting it on weld it on.
Well, do a search about SSautochrome’s reputation, you’ll probably reconsider. Then if you want to see something that I think is interesting, do a search about BBS on this site… When he showed up there was a lot of “why doesn’t anyone make turbo stuff for our cars” and I was on a very definite rant that “because you won’t pay what it costs for them to make the same profit that they make on your typical Honda or whatever setup….” And that no one was going to make stuff at the prices people were willing to pay. BBS showed up and said “I will” and, well, proved me right and wrong at the same time… he didn’t actually mange to see them for the price we were talking about and much closer to what I said someone would have to charge, but he did manage to sell some at that price…
I just emailed BBS Designs and asked them if there would be intersted in doing a group purchase through thirdgen.org.. MAYBE something good will come out of it..
That is a good shop. Lance at JGSTools.com seems like an honest guy with good products.
The BBS Designs were TIG welded. You can't really tell how well the weld penetration is from a picture. You need to have the welded product in front of you to see how good it is. A giant bead doesn't really mean anything.
true, you need to have in front of to really see...
but I have still seen much MUCH cleaner TIG welds than that.
and after looking at some of the welds on the BBS ones, honestly they did not look like they penitrated well at all, and the paint over it made it look worse.
You got some things to learn about welding then . You are telling me this don't look like is has penitration????
Aslo to that 90TBI guy . You have obviosly never priced a turbo kit out have ya Frigging 3400 bucks for a kit with everything . Try and get another poweradder that peroms that well .
BBsdesigns . I guess I am gonna loose out on the work I wanted done eh I wanted AIR lines put in the manifold and the wasgate relocated . I only asked here as I haven;t gotten a reply to my email yet .
I wish you the best in your bussiness regardless .
The kits have been copied already. That happens all the time. Unfortunately, in this day and age, people looking to make a quick buck seem to just find a way to screw everybody else over. I'm genuinely very sorry that this happenend to you.
However, to Edgardo, your kit has already been copied. There's nothing more you can do to stop the distribution of the copied kit. And it sucks even more because I know all about the costs and energy involved in designing and building a kit. Unfortunately, there are always going to be people who are willing to put the cheap garbage on their cars. They just don't take as much pride or have as much respect for their cars as we do. And those type of people encourage the distribution of garbage parts like those from SS Autochrome.
Was it just the single turbo kit they copied? If so fine. But for what it's worth, there are still people like me, who would still buy the copied kit from you at a higher price before we buy from a ****ty company like SS AutoChrome. We know good quality and good craftsmanship when we see it. And we have a respect for our cars that is much higher than those who are willing to put trash on their cars for a cheaper price.
I was hoping to someday run a BBS kit on my car. I was so close to finally buying one too. Ah well, stuff happens I guess.
To whoever did this, thank you very much for ripping off one of the few people who decided to make something that's been desperately needed by our cars. I'm sure I speak for many on this board when I say that I hope you get everything you deserve you SOB.
__________________ 1991 Trans Am GTA
Gunmetal Grey Hardtop, L98/Auto
SLP Performance Package
Mirror polished TPI
...and a few other mods
Hello guys and gals, we have received some emails in the last few days regarding the discontinue of our products. Some of them asked us for a group sale, so, anyone really interested?
About the welds; never a complaint, never a crack, never a single problem, guess that will clear things up.
I am tempted just to buy one of those counterfeit kits and test it on a car just to know how much it will last. Maybe I'll hammer it to death once I notice the cracks showing just for the fun.
Hello guys and gals, we have received some emails in the last few days regarding the discontinue of our products. Some of them asked us for a group sale, so, anyone really interested?
Like I said in my email to you.. YES Im VERY interested in JUST the turbo headers BUT if its an all or nothing deal...... I'll "bend over and take it." Im not saying that 3 grand for your setup is a rip off its just that Im unemployed and dont have the money to spend. BUT if you're willing to do a group purchase I'll be the FIRST sign up AND SEND you the money. You can quote me on that...
Hello guys and gals, we have received some emails in the last few days regarding the discontinue of our products. Some of them asked us for a group sale, so, anyone really interested?
About the welds; never a complaint, never a crack, never a single problem, guess that will clear things up.
I am tempted just to buy one of those counterfeit kits and test it on a car just to know how much it will last. Maybe I'll hammer it to death once I notice the cracks showing just for the fun.
Have cash in hand and ready. I was going to order in June, but if you do one final run right now, I'm good to go. You make, and I will pay at your price. It's as simple as that.
__________________ 1991 Trans Am GTA
Gunmetal Grey Hardtop, L98/Auto
SLP Performance Package
Mirror polished TPI
...and a few other mods
That's JACKED UP. As if there wasn't enough reason for me to heavily look down upon that company. That's just plain sick. I think we all have a duty to get even more word out about their cheap crap products and shady business practices.
I already have my BBSDesigns TT kit, but I definitely wanted you guys to stay in business for a long while, you had some great things going for us thirdgen guys, and it seemed to be working out well. One of the small reasons I bought my kit when I shouldn't really have at that point was to help promote nicely done turbo kits for our aftermarket turbo-neglected cars. I wanted to help show that there is a bit of a market for it, and others obviously agreed. During the purchase process I quickly learned how wonderful you guys really are as a company, that's really hard to find anymore, and everyone appreciates it.
It really pains me to see someone taking all that away from us as enthusiasts by way of their pathetic forgeries.
As others have said, I wish you luck with your other ventures just the same.
A GP would be good for those people who were about ready to buy from you, it's nice that you're possibly offering that option.
Now, can you start a thread about your quad turbo project?
Look what these pathetic bastards have at the bottom of their site. Ironic, isn't it? Seeing as how they rip off just about all of the ruputable turbo vendors, huh.
Look what these pathetic bastards have at the bottom of their site. Ironic, isn't it? Seeing as how they rip off just about all of the ruputable turbo vendors, huh.
That hacks me off.....BBS was where i was going to get my header because everyone said SSAuto is S**T. Its a small world so they will get what is coming to them...."Thy will sew what thy reaps."
hopefully in the near future 2 things will happen...
1- BBS Sees that a lot of people wanna buy their kit and they'll start a group purchase of some sort..
2- People that say they want the turbo kits ACTUALLY come up with money for the kits..
Dan
Well, if he would just get the group purchase going, I already have the money for a kit. Freakin SS Autochrome's timing sucks bigtime. I was just about ready to order when they pulled off this stunt.
__________________ 1991 Trans Am GTA
Gunmetal Grey Hardtop, L98/Auto
SLP Performance Package
Mirror polished TPI
...and a few other mods
well IF the mods will let me I'd like to start a list of people for a "UNOFFICAL" GROUP PURCHASE.. In other words this will be a list of people that want a twin turbo, single turbo, race turbo setup ect. ect. AND are willing to pay for BBS's services in the event that BBS designs decides to make turbo setups for us.. Just wanna make sure people realize that this ISNT official..
1.) Dan (Metalhead212121) <--interested in twin turbo setup.. OR twin turbo headers..
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1.) Dan (Metalhead212121) <--interested in twin turbo setup.. OR twin turbo headers..
2.)Jeremy(aka 3.8TransAM)=single turbo setup with AC and serpentine, headers/downpipe elbow only
3.)PETE (interested in single turbo header only(can pay today), in case my crap cracks )
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Frigging 3400 bucks for a kit with everything . Try and get another poweradder that peroms that well . 
As if there wasn't enough reason for me to heavily look down upon that company. That's just plain sick. I think we all have a duty to get even more word out about their cheap crap products and shady business practices.
