i know the turbo version of the mitsu 4G63 (DSM) engine has oil squirters to cool the bottom of the pistons, my question is can you put this on a car that did not originally have oil squirters and does it make a big difference?

Boy does that sound like a bain aid.

BW

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Bobalos
aka Bob W.
www.r71camaro.homestead.com
r71chevy@earthlink.net
<><

VW does the same in the older 16V engines. I think it has something to do with keeping piston temps down and reducing the chances of detonation.

Yea, you can do it. Im not sure its really worth the effort though unless you are running really high cylinder temps.

Which is my point. this is a band aid to fix a poor design. figure out what is wrong & fix it, or once you get the piston oil squirters in you are goign to need connecting rod squirters & cam thrust bearing squirters & rocker kep nut squirters & muffler bearing retaining ring squirters.

BW

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Bobalos
aka Bob W.
www.r71camaro.homestead.com
r71chevy@earthlink.net
<><

well it's a pretty damn good band aid seeing as 4g63s can handle 25 psi, and 450hp on the stock internals. not bad for a 2L 4 cyl.

It is not a band aid, it is a way to remove heat faster from the piston tops which allows more boost to be run. 90's SAABs used this with turbo engines.

Band aid my @ss! Every Jap motorcycle engine I have ever rebuilt had this feature. So has every diesel engine I have been into, on Mack you aim the oil squirter to hit on a certain part of the piston. As mentioned it removes heat from the pison and pin area, and works good. By the way my Jap bike puts out 139HP on 1.0 liter, hows that for a HP to displacement ratio! LMAO

so now that we got that out of the way can it be added to other engines without more work than it's worth?

Boy lighten up a bit, this is supposed to be fun remember?

I was just wondering if Andris or GMI or Willie or any of the other guys out there that have forced induction (dont figure that this is limited to Turbos do you), have oil squirters on their motors? why not? maybe cause there is a better way.

Yea you are right my bad, I have never seen the inside of a Mac TD to have seen the oil squirters. I stand corrected, maybe there is a good reason to have them in my Semi, oh wait, I dont have a semi.

& I dont seem to recall seeing them in my V4 honda either, but it is a pretty small motor maybe i missed them.

It is something I've considered. I've got two opposing rules going here. First - Keep it simple, less to break, and more reliable. Other - Build the best engine possible, with all the tricks.

With the oil squirters, I think the biggest drawback will be at high rpms. All that oil has to drain back down to the oilpan. This will add a ton of windage on the reciprocating/rotating assembly.

I am not familiar enough with the squirter setup. Is there any more information out there? How is the oil forced up to the piston top? I assume the rod is gun drilled, and the acceleration forces pump it from the big end rod bearings.

I will most likely have all the parts coated before assembly of the new motor.

A. (just my few cents!)

Bob The oil squirters were in your Honda, they are in the top side of the rod. I still have some laying around just no digital camera YET. I have seen about 14 Honda V4 guts since about 85 model up 500-1100CC, and they all have them in the rods. Some bikes (Suzuki's)use squirter tubes that are fixed like the diesels, but most are in the top of the rods as with auto engines. I think the better idea is to have them fixed so they spray at the piston all the time, on the rod they kind of sling it around in the general direction more.

It's not an afterthough, it does work! I would not mod rods on an engine that did not come that way though. And it would require more oil pump volume to run, and therfore more HP, but it does a great job of cooling pistons. They use these tricks on Indy cars, and they are the puttinest out things per cc we know of. I'm all lightened up now! LOL

Thanks

I think some of you should tear apart a SBF sometime....

Andris pointed to an easier and perhaps more practical solution to keeping pistons cooler. Coatings! Ceramic coating on the piston top will keep the piston body cooler by reflecting the heat energy back into the combustion chamber. A very nice side effect is more even combustion, a more complete burn, and more heat energy creating more cylinder pressure = more horsepower instead of soaking into the pistons & oil. For those that must pass emissions testing it will help there too.
You can also ceramic coat the combustion chamber surface of the heads and the valve faces. Also you can coat the surface in the exhaust port to reduce heat soak into the head there. The ceramic also prevents hot spots, by dissipation allowing a higher compression ratio and higher cylinder pressures with less chance of detonation. You can also cout the piston skirts with a coating that is a great high presure dry lubricant, but it also holds more oil than the machined ribs on them can do alone. That allows not only better lubrication/less friction but also the extra oil contact aids in disipating heat from the piston/rings to the cylinder walls/cooling jackets.
There is a newer technology for piston top coatings too. It has been used in racing for a few years now, but like ceramic it takes a while to trickle down to, and be accepted by the average street machiner. It is called alkodizing (spelling?). It isn't a sprayed on/baked coating. Rather it is an electro/chemical proccess where the suface material of the piston is changed. Something like anodizing I suppose.

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Tracy /AKA IROCKZ4me
'86 IROC-Z Camaro
"Cogito ergo zoom"

• 355 cid
• AFR heads
• Arizona Speed & Marine hydraulic roller cam w/ AFR hydra-rev kit
• modified SLP runners
• TRW forged pistons/ceramic coated
• fully balanced
• Edelbrock headers/ceramic coated
• SLP cat-back
• Paxton supercharger
• Nitrous Express nitrous oxide

EFI Performance Club on Yahoo

I think one of the dudes in engine masters did that, with a drill and little "hammer in" orafices like are used in transmission rebuilding and steeling only the most minute bit of oil from the mains.

So what's the deal with SBFs and why should someone take one apart? I've been wondering that for 2 years.
I don't see how with adequate cooling oil squirters would HURT anything, they could only help. Less detonation=better engine longevity and the ability to run more boost, no? Anyone have an idea as to how much machining in an oil squirter setup would be?

a reputable mashinist wouldnt have any problem, but alot might freak about the idea of oil being taken from the mains at all

the little orafices I am talking about are in the .015-.020 range

Dead post revival...

SBF's have a little hole in the rod. The upper rod bearing has a bit bigger hole. They may have done away with this sometime in the late 80's but not that I am aware of.

I used to have it bookmarked... There is a company that sells a machining fixture and the orifice kits to do oil squirters for SBC's. I believe the oil was taken from the main oil galley, and squirted into the cylinder bore underside from the side. There's quite a few turbo guys that swear by that... The fixture was too expensive for a one time use, but there might be an engine shop local to you that has it (think Duttweiler, Precision Turbo, etc...). I forget the name of the company, but Duttweiler or Precision Turbo could tell you.

CV Products

MLR - Mike Laws Research. Thanks for the CV link! Their on-track salesmen are a blast to hang out with, he he he. Running commentary on all the scenery walking by at the Trois Riviere's TA/ALMS race

this guy can do the piston coatings amoung other things for ya...


heh, he even coated his lil nitro engine for his RC car/truck.... just cause he can.