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I am looking for the right motor about 3 months and I decided to buy http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku this one, I was planning about buying bluprint 383 motors but I learned that they use old engine blocks... Anyhow, I am very close to buy this engine, but before I do I want to hear some advice from you guys...
I will buy a new aluminum radiator, a new aluminum drive shaft, will do ed's disk brake upgrade (hope so...), and richmond 6 speed manuel transmission swap, finally and most importantly, I will buy a supercharge but I dont know very little about superchargers, so my questions to you are:
1) What are the additional things that I should buy when I do the swap?
2) What kind of supercharger fill be ok for the gm383, what part do I need?
I am going to buy the stuff when I get my answer, I am waiting for your response to order. If you make a list about necessary parts that I should own with that engine that would be very nice... I will inform you about the process with the car.
I will ask questions about richmond 6 speed in other section.
That's the ZZ383 engine from GMPP. It's not really intended to be used with a blower, but I could be done, I suppose.
You will find very few roots blowers that are capable of being bolted onto Vortec-style cylinder heads like that engine uses. Weiand makes a version of their 142 blower that will, but it's really not big enough to feed an engine like that.
A centrifugal blower used blow-though-style with a carb or EFI would probably be a much better match if you have your heart set on supercharging that engine.
[quote=Damon;3746564]That's the ZZ383 engine from GMPP. It's not really intended to be used with a blower, but I could be done, I suppose.
You will find very few roots blowers that are capable of being bolted onto Vortec-style cylinder heads like that engine uses. Weiand makes a version of their 142 blower that will, but it's really not big enough to feed an engine like that.quote]
Thanks for your advice but is there any bigger blower that can feed gm383 engine? I give my hearth to root blower
i am currently running the zz 383 engine in my car with a procharger d1sc, i changed the head gaskets to a thicker metal gasket to drop commpression and from a lower chance of blowing the head gaskets. i am currently making around my guess is 400rwhp with 5 pounds of boost, i am going to change my pulley to a smaller one this week and hoping for more like 500rwhp.
Why are you trying to drop commpression?? I try to get higher compressions And I am asking because I do not know, Does changing the pully with a smaller one, helps to get more torque??
That's the ZZ383 engine from GMPP. It's not really intended to be used with a blower, but I could be done, I suppose.
You will find very few roots blowers that are capable of being bolted onto Vortec-style cylinder heads like that engine uses. Weiand makes a version of their 142 blower that will, but it's really not big enough to feed an engine like that.
A centrifugal blower used blow-though-style with a carb or EFI would probably be a much better match if you have your heart set on supercharging that engine.
zz383 does not have vertec style cylinder heads, I gueass.
even summit sells this engine without a manifold so I can pick the right manifold for my root supercharge. Can't I?
That Edelbrock kit will probably work for you since they build a 507HP 350ci crate motor that uses it on top of Vortec-style heads (Edlebrock E-tecs, direct competitors to the GM Fastrburns) and has otherwise similar specs to the bigger ZZ383 engine.
Here's the specs on the Edelbrock 507 HP crate motor, FYI:
You may say to yourself "yeah, but it's only ~80HP more than the motor puts out N/A!" True, but that horsepower also comes with a MOUNTAIN of low end and midrange torque. They claim 450 ft/lbs at only 2500 RPMs and only on a 350ci engine. On a bigger 383ci engine it'll be even more. Roots blowers are good for that. It'll feel like you put a 125HP plate shot of nitrous on the motor. But you'll never have to refill a bottle. TORQUE- what you really feel on the street.
I know on my very mild 142-blown 383 the low end torque is absolutely rediculous. Trying to hook it up anywhere below 35 MPH on street tires is an exercise in futility. The tranny dowshifts to 1st gear (auto with 2.73 rear gears), the tires spin uncontrollably and she starts sliding off towards the ditch. More like driving a mild 454 big block than a small block. My engine puts out a dyno-verified ~470HP @ 5000. Nothign to write home about unless you get a taste of the torque that comes along with it in a very usable street RPM range. That Edelbrock blower (based on a late model Eaton design) would probably make more power everywhere than my ancient-techology 142. It's FAR more efficient at moving air without heating it up than my 142 with straight-cut lobes is.
Thank you SOO much for your explanations and advices, I finally came up with a solution which is as Damon suggested, to buy an edelbrock supercharge. If I can find enough money one at a time, I'll probably choose buying the e force RPM supercharged engine... I will keep you update with the improvements...
On a bigger 383ci engine it'll be even more. Roots blowers are good for that. It'll feel like you put a 125HP plate shot of nitrous on the motor. But you'll never have to refill a bottle. TORQUE- what you really feel on the street.
I know on my very mild 142-blown 383 the low end torque is absolutely rediculous. Trying to hook it up anywhere below 35 MPH on street tires is an exercise in futility. The tranny dowshifts to 1st gear (auto with 2.73 rear gears), the tires spin uncontrollably and she starts sliding off towards the ditch. More like driving a mild 454 big block than a small block. My engine puts out a dyno-verified ~470HP @ 5000. Nothign to write home about unless you get a taste of the torque that comes along with it in a very usable street RPM range. That Edelbrock blower (based on a late model Eaton design) would probably make more power everywhere than my ancient-techology 142. It's FAR more efficient at moving air without heating it up than my 142 with straight-cut lobes is.
From your 2 threads and your PM it sounds like you’re pretty much set on carbureted with a roots type blower (correct me if I’m wrong there, there are other options).
First, the edlebrock setup is definitely a way to go, as is the Magnussen/Magnacharger setup (more modern blower there) but there are a few things to consider.
The edelbrock package runs fairly high compression and very low boost, making for something that is fairly easy to tune, gets good mpg and is fairly mild. The only other reason to maintain a high compression ratio is to make up for a lack of low end in a combination that uses a supercharger that does not work well at low RPM, where a positive displacement/roots type blower does not have that problem. To the contrary, it will pretty much try to make full boost at whatever rpm you go WOT at.
That being the case, I would suggest considering a combination with lower compression and much more boost which would make significantly more power. Something like 8-8.5:1 and 12psi or so would be a lot more fun than that 9.x:1 and 5psi that the edelbrock setup uses. Getting beyond compression, things like forged pistons and better internal parts will help the setup hold together longer. The hypereutectic pistons used in the crate engine that you listed are great pistons for street use which allow you to run tighter clearances than traditional forged or even cast pistons, but they do not tolerate detonation at all making them not such a great choice for supercharging (fine if you can be confident that you’ll never see detonation, but put >500hp and the noise from a supercharger in a car and see how loud and fast things are happening and you’ll quickly realize that that’s a lot harder said than done).
First of all yes I am strictly dominant about using root supercharger
So you I guess, you say that, to use a supercharged I should have an engine that has lower compressions and forged components, (for using the engine more more years...)
I picked up zz383 because It has the finest price/hp/torque combination. but as you say using supercharge on it would not be a logical act, right??
Anyhow, if the things that I wrote above are correct; can you advice me an engine that is powerful as it self, and will be, can be more powerful with supercharger...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA
From your 2 threads and your PM it sounds like you’re pretty much set on carbureted with a roots type blower (correct me if I’m wrong there, there are other options).
First, the edlebrock setup is definitely a way to go, as is the Magnussen/Magnacharger setup (more modern blower there) but there are a few things to consider.
The edelbrock package runs fairly high compression and very low boost, making for something that is fairly easy to tune, gets good mpg and is fairly mild. The only other reason to maintain a high compression ratio is to make up for a lack of low end in a combination that uses a supercharger that does not work well at low RPM, where a positive displacement/roots type blower does not have that problem. To the contrary, it will pretty much try to make full boost at whatever rpm you go WOT at.
That being the case, I would suggest considering a combination with lower compression and much more boost which would make significantly more power. Something like 8-8.5:1 and 12psi or so would be a lot more fun than that 9.x:1 and 5psi that the edelbrock setup uses. Getting beyond compression, things like forged pistons and better internal parts will help the setup hold together longer. The hypereutectic pistons used in the crate engine that you listed are great pistons for street use which allow you to run tighter clearances than traditional forged or even cast pistons, but they do not tolerate detonation at all making them not such a great choice for supercharging (fine if you can be confident that you’ll never see detonation, but put >500hp and the noise from a supercharger in a car and see how loud and fast things are happening and you’ll quickly realize that that’s a lot harder said than done).
Ok, first, anything can be supercharged, and within reason, made to live. That being said, some engine combinations are easier to supercharge, make power and not blow up.
That crate engine is not what most people would choose to supercharge, you’ll have to be very careful with it, essentially compression is a bit high and the hypereutectic pistons won’t survive much if any accidental detonation.
Since I don’t really know what is available to you, I’m not sure what would be the best recommendation for you. If it was me, unless I came by a better deal for something more appropriate for supercharging I would look into swapping lower compression, forged pistons into what you already have. If the ring sizes ended up the same I would even consider reusing them after checking them for an end gap that is appropriate for supercharging (you generally want to run a larger gap as there is more potential to put heat into the rings, too large a ring gap means losing a fraction of a percent compression, too small means the ends of the rings butting, scored cylinders, and cracked/broken ring lands).
My other concern with that crate (which would lead me to more seriously look for something else more appropriate for supercharging) is that I believe the fast burn heads will have the fastburn/vortec bolt pattern and port locations, which will need a specific intake manifold, and I’m sure that the standard SBC pattern will be easier to find.
To be a little more specific, _if it was me_ I’d probably be looking for something along the lines of 7.8-8.5:1 compression (I’d aim more toward the lower side with iron heads and toward the upper side with aluminum heads). The better the quality internals the better, but if nothing else I would splurge for good quality fasteners especially head studs and rod bolts, the cam choice would depend on what compression you end up with, intended power band, transmission/torque converter/rear gears… Blower wise, I’d probably give something sized like a 6-71 a good hard look (the 14x blowers will be too small, the 17x blowers would probably be OK but not for serious fun), or if looking at the magnussen stuff, at a minimum of the eaton 112 or larger if you’re starting from scratch.
or if looking at the magnussen stuff, at a minimum of the eaton 112 or larger if you’re starting from scratch.
Hey Crossfire - You do realize that the Edelbrock "E-Force" blower is actually a Magnuson/Eaton M122 blower don't you? They joined with edelbrock to sell them. The only part of the blower that edelbrock actually manufactures on their "E-Force" blowers is the manifold and belt brackets. Other than that, they're clueless about everything else...I've called both them and Magnuson, or Eaton, or Magna-Charger - whatever ya want to call them.
I do agree though, there's plenty of options out there that will make gobs more power. But you've indentified a few major reasons why I went with the Edelbrock blower - ease of tuning, good MPG (which is becoming very important with the price of gas lately) -but what is considered "mild" is really different in each of our minds....but I'll say that yes, it's mild if you're looking for a 1/4 mile car that is capable of sub 10's....but I don't see many of those I would consider "streetable" which is another definiton that changes person to person. Oh, and this particular blower claims it only takes 1/3 HP drag on the motor at 70 MPH. Try that with a 8-71 old school roots blower!!
Hey Crossfire - You do realize that the Edelbrock "E-Force" blower is actually a Magnuson/Eaton M122 blower don't you?
Did I say anything to imply anything else? These things are turning up everywhere now, but there are only 2 ways to get parts/anyone with a real clue about them: Magnuson/Magnacharger or if you have some OEM contact then eaton itself.
Quote:
I do agree though, there's plenty of options out there that will make gobs more power. But you've indentified a few major reasons why I went with the Edelbrock blower - ease of tuning, good MPG (which is becoming very important with the price of gas lately) -but what is considered "mild" is really different in each of our minds....but I'll say that yes, it's mild if you're looking for a 1/4 mile car that is capable of sub 10's....but I don't see many of those I would consider "streetable" which is another definiton that changes person to person. Oh, and this particular blower claims it only takes 1/3 HP drag on the motor at 70 MPH. Try that with a 8-71 old school roots blower!!
Mild does not imply wimpy… 500hp out of one of these is a big number. You won’t run significantly faster then other ways of getting that kind of power, but this thing will be completely different to drive on the road than something like a similar engine with a centrifugal blower. With one of these you have full boost and mountains of torque wherever you have the guts to give it full throttle.
Did I say anything to imply anything else? These things are turning up everywhere now, but there are only 2 ways to get parts/anyone with a real clue about them: Magnuson/Magnacharger or if you have some OEM contact then eaton itself.
No offense intended Crossfire!! I probably misinterpreted:
Quote:
First, the edlebrock setup is definitely a way to go, as is the Magnussen/Magnacharger setup (more modern blower there) but there are a few things to consider.
HaHa...I guess the "as is" threw me off. And you're right, MagnaCharger sells a very simular kit as Edelbrock's - They call it their "Gen 1 Classic SBC" kit. Same 122 blower, etc., so you can get parts through them along with smaller pulleys. I'm starting out with a 3.5" pulley which makes around 5# of boost on a typical SBC 350 with 9:1 compression. I'm betting I'll only see maybe 3# on my 400.
Once I tune a bit, I'll switch to a 3.0 inch pulley to hopefully get around 7-8#.
Besides the compression can it be used with a beneficial blower setup?
And last thing, gm zz383 has 9.1/1 compression, this compression is really high to use the edelbrock e force supercharge?? Will this setup really cause detonation of my engine block and pistons??
engongam - 9.1:1 compression should be just fine. It just so happens that's exactly what my compression is - and I built my engine just for this blower. I suggest you visit the MagnaCharger website and look up the MP122 SBC hotrod kit and instructions. It'll explain alot.
You don't necessarily NEED forged pistons. Hypers will work, but as said above - they won't take detonation for very long. The key is not to detonate by being a little conservative on your timing advance. Then they'll last forever. I chose to go forged for the extra "insurance", plus I already had a forged crank anyway in my case.
Thank you for your response, so I still will go with the gm zz383 and if I can, I will change the pistons with forged ones, If I can't I will check the timing of the supercharger?? right??
I checked the site and found 2 different superchargersi one is M112 and the other one is M122.
Which one is suitable for gm zz383, can you give me the part number??
There are NO small block crate motors from GM that come with forged pistons. All hypers. I think GM is missing the boat on that feature, but they still sell zillions of them so maybe they don't care.
The Edelbrock blower engine uses the ZZ4 bottom end, just with their heads, cam, and blower. Hence, forged crank and hyper pistons.
The ZZ383 has more cubes but it's still a forged crank and hypereutectic pistons.
Forged pistons would be a sensible upgrade in a blower application, in my opinion, but not absolutely necessary. If you never encounter detonation you'll never hurt them. But the chances of detonation in a blower motor are, obviously, higher and it's not "gentle" detonation usually, either.
Your first indication of detonation is usually when you are blowing chunks of piston out the exhaust. You can't hear it over the blower whine and exhaust noise. The damage is instantaneous and catastrophic. They let go of the ringland above the top ring. And it looks like this when it happens:
Ahh ahhh, I wish I could live in USA Now, because I live in Europe, I do not want to open the engine that I bought and change the pistons... I am buying a new engine because I do not want people in here to touch my engine, you know what I mean. They have no enough knowladge about different type of engines and there is a feeling thet they do not want to make a car that is faster than his own car...
I think there is only one way to get this done, as I said billon times, I will be in USA in 3 weeks, and stay there for 3 months, In this time period I might buy the engine, and change the pistons in USA (off course I have to find a place that I can trust) even we can put the charger there and do the adjustments. Because I believe that If I send the engine and the supercharger seperatly, people in my country might not be able to do the right adjusments... And this may cuase lats of things, even it might be the
biggest reason for detonation... (wrong adjustment)
OR,
I really need to find an engine that has fully forged components...
Damon,
If I cannot do the things I have said above, I came up with an idea...
What if we buy an ls2???
Would that be more effective or less effective interms of performance?
Would it be easy to swap??
, I am waiting for your response to order. If you make a list about necessary parts that I should own with that engine that would be very nice... I will inform you about the process with the car.
And I am asking because I do not know, Does changing the pully with a smaller one, helps to get more torque?? 
