Power AdderGetting a Supercharger or Turbocharger? Thinking about using Nitrous? All forced induction and N2O topics discussed here.
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Yep. so far its doing well but i have no idea where it makes power. Will be at the dyno sunday to get an idea. It is suppose to peak around 5800 but i have been shifting at like 5600 and still running 140mph traps.
Only problem i had was the cam dowel pin was drilled in the wrong spot or something, which made it a bear to degree in. I had to move the timing set a full tooth and use full advance i think it was to bring it back into spec. It sometimes happens with cams that the cam is ground slightly off from the dowel pin reference point, atleast thats what Mike Jones told me when I called him about it. Just another reason why you need to have your cam degree'd in.
My last year cam degreed in just fine with the same timing set and the chain did not stretch out from 1600 miles of use. So after few attempts at degreeing in the Jones cam, i knew something was wrong and called him up.
He makes great cams tho, i'm seriously considering a mild grind from him for my LS1 TA daily driver
Yep. so far its doing well but i have no idea where it makes power. Will be at the dyno sunday to get an idea. It is suppose to peak around 5800 but i have been shifting at like 5600 and still running 140mph traps.
Only problem i had was the cam dowel pin was drilled in the wrong spot or something, which made it a bear to degree in. I had to move the timing set a full tooth and use full advance i think it was to bring it back into spec. It sometimes happens with cams that the cam is ground slightly off from the dowel pin reference point, atleast thats what Mike Jones told me when I called him about it. Just another reason why you need to have your cam degree'd in.
My last year cam degreed in just fine with the same timing set and the chain did not stretch out from 1600 miles of use. So after few attempts at degreeing in the Jones cam, i knew something was wrong and called him up.
He makes great cams tho, i'm seriously considering a mild grind from him for my LS1 TA daily driver
chet herbert makes great cams, custom ground rollers and around 200$, i dont even degree them anymore.
My first Mike Jones cam was spot on. This last one was off a tad. Like you I love the Jones cams. I agree every cam needs to be degreed. We have seen cams off 7 degrees.
It looks like Carl at CNC Blocks knows how to assemble a short block. You are putting that Dart SHP though its paces.
My latest motor should be on the engine dyno in a couple of weeks.
I dont think i'm really stressing anything yet. 1000hp may start to get up there but at my current level which is somewhere around 800-850, i think its more than strong enough
Congrats on the car, it is an absolute monster of a street car. I know the local mustang crowd just hates you. Again congrats, that is on slick a$$ ride, it has it all, aesthetics, and performance.
Went to the dyno, will sumarize things better in a new thread with video but car put down 640whp on 13psi on mustang dyno and then on 17.5 psi, it made 690whp. No idea what torque was, converter flashed and boost came on, graph said 1086 tq and fell straight down from there as its well beyond its peak. So it holds 18 psi on pump gas, that is awesome.
Even tho its a mustang dyno, the car didnt make normal boost on first run and ran rich. Runs leaner and makes more boost on the street and at the strip so these numbers dont mean too much. First pull was mid 10's to 1 air fuel when on the street its mid high 11's to 1. On 17psi+ it was hitting below 10 to 1 air fuel...I think i'm maxing these turbos out however as i didnt pick up much per psi and it peaks at like 5300 rpm when it should be 5800 or more. May have too much backpressure and need a bigger housing
Went to the dyno, will sumarize things better in a new thread with video but car put down 640whp on 13psi on mustang dyno and then on 17.5 psi, it made 690whp. No idea what torque was, converter flashed and boost came on, graph said 1086 tq and fell straight down from there as its well beyond its peak. So it holds 18 psi on pump gas, that is awesome.
Even tho its a mustang dyno, the car didnt make normal boost on first run and ran rich. Runs leaner and makes more boost on the street and at the strip so these numbers dont mean too much. First pull was mid 10's to 1 air fuel when on the street its mid high 11's to 1. On 17psi+ it was hitting below 10 to 1 air fuel...I think i'm maxing these turbos out however as i didnt pick up much per psi and it peaks at like 5300 rpm when it should be 5800 or more. May have too much backpressure and need a bigger housing
u are way too rich. My car lost a 100 hp going that rich.My A/F ratio is alittle above 12.
did you data log durning the dyno run? if so check your air intake temps, most of the 59 starter bins being off the turbo sy/ty's had them run rich and pull timing when the air temp goes up. incase their air to water intercooler is out of water or something.
since you have a huge air to air intercooler, I bet your temps were much higher than when your doing 140 at the big end.
still sounds like good numbers to me and reminds everyone how much real tuning you do yourself from drag strip runs are much betten than dyno queens.
i datalogged all 3 and havent checked the intake air temps but it was a cool day and the motor was cool to start the run, although the intake was heat soaked abit
SO much more in the tune tho. I never went above 14 psi before so when it hit 17-18+ psi on pump gas it went rich. I made a tiny adjustment to the ve table and with 1 psi less boost i picked up 20whp on the dyno jet. Not bad but still way off the mark
Congrats on all your hard work. I'm happy to see some of you are crazy enough to pull off a project like this. When I first read this thread I thought you were nuts!
Congrats on all your hard work. I'm happy to see some of you are crazy enough to pull off a project like this. When I first read this thread I thought you were nuts!
Well i'm still nuts because its not done yet hehe. Redoing the exhaust and changing turbo housings out for larger one. Also redoing oil feed lines and was thinking of re-sealing the manifold since i thought i had a oil leak
I will change the turbos out to a larger 64-70mm unit and shoot for 800+whp but thats way in the future, i'm going to enjoy this current setup and see how fast it can go. It actually may get me to 800whp on good tune and such.
Exhaust clearance was an issue for my car so I decided to scrap the 4" system and go with a true dual 3" setup that i can tuck up better. Started with the y pipe i made before and hacked off the Y collector. Put in a pair of flex pipes and then into X pipe where stock Cat used to be
Magnaflow X pipe
Comparison to my old 4" system which hangs abit lower in this pic than what it did this year, but it never really hit on the road. As you can see tho i will have TONS more room this year
It will go up over the axle and out the back into dual tips. Will be using dynomax 3" bullets i think for the mufflers but may need to switch to something else to keep it quiet.
Was gonna use these Loudmouth II bullets but they neck down to 2.5" so I'm sending them back..well i'll save 1 for the trans am i have
I think you already said that you were not a fan of the single 4" exhaust coming out the back, but I think you would have had more clearance if you placed the muffler in its original spot.
Don't mind me because you already have a proven set up that pulls like nobodies business!!!!
__________________ 91 Z28 w/383 eagle forged assembly, Accel Pro-Ram, ZEX nos plate w/Nano, 1200cfm TB, 847 cam, CNC Trickflow 195, Hooker LT coated w/Mufflex y-pipe and 4" Ultra-Flo, Bullet proof 700r4, ATI 3500 stall, Moser 12bolt 3.73's, Spohn suspension, 315 ZR1's rear and 275 ZR1's front, Weld Drag Lites w/ 27.5 Hoosier QTP's and M/T Sportsman up front. Stock 730 ECM w/NVSRAM and LM1 WB.
out of curiousity do you think this engine would benefit from larger cc heads like 210s or something like that? ive always been under the impression that 195cc for a 401cu. in. motor would be too small
__________________ 7psi run-- 11.89 @ 112 1.64 60ft
My 89 trans am and turbo build here
new setup 383ci pt88<- it lives
It most certainly could and would benefit from a larger head.... and i kick myself for not upgrading when i could have. Its what i had available so i used it. 210-220's would be what I would do if starting over again
Your car is still a Beast. I just got my hands on a NB Turbonetics T76 for painting a friends car and he helped with the body work, so I got it free just about. This winter I'll be mocking up my headers for sure.
I got turbo fever
__________________ 91 Z28 w/383 eagle forged assembly, Accel Pro-Ram, ZEX nos plate w/Nano, 1200cfm TB, 847 cam, CNC Trickflow 195, Hooker LT coated w/Mufflex y-pipe and 4" Ultra-Flo, Bullet proof 700r4, ATI 3500 stall, Moser 12bolt 3.73's, Spohn suspension, 315 ZR1's rear and 275 ZR1's front, Weld Drag Lites w/ 27.5 Hoosier QTP's and M/T Sportsman up front. Stock 730 ECM w/NVSRAM and LM1 WB.
Orr: you are totally awesome. I cant believe that we were discussing the HSR install, and now you got twin turbos! You piss me off! hahahaha. I am totally jealous.
Hey man, loved this post (cept for those guys arguing about PSI f***ing it up) and just wanted to add, heck with c-clip eliminators go the disc rear approach it can be done for under a hundred buck with no chance of leaking is an acceptable axle retention method and you'll be able to stop better ??? questionable because if your stopping now what is better but loved your build and the vids, which I watched before I read this post,, Timmy
Today, i spent a couple hours reading this from start to finish. Then i had to go drive my GTA. Im gunna say i had a boner reading this. Your car is awesome!! Have fun with it, it is yours! and you building it makes it that much more special!
Thanks for the compliments. Had the car up and running again after 4 long months of storage. I changed to a dual 3" exhaust system on this car now and I love it. If I didnt move to texas in Jan, i may have changed this turbo setup to something abit cleaner.
Changed the converter out to a ~4200 stall setup. The old one was 5400-5500 which was WAY too much for my car. I like this one better but still needs some tuning work to get the car off the line. Just doesnt 60 foot as well since it takes a bit longer to light up them turbos. Still not building boost on the line so 60 foots are down.
My track outing this past weekend is here. It was 85 deg or so and high head winds but still managed to get down to 10.08 at 138.7 with best mph of 140.3. That was on 16psi tho. Sea level correction is around 9.72 at 145 so that would be awesome.
i love the pics where i can see the turbos out of the hood. sooo sexy.
just a quick observation. looking at the pics u posted of the exhaust... from the one pic u can see the tq arm from the rear of the car, idk if the pic is playing tricks on my eyes but the tq arm looks bowed or bent away from the exhaust... is it bowed or is it just me ?
So, do you think it's faster/sounds better with the dual 3"? I'm not sure why you couldn't just run dual 3" pipes with the 4" you had, but hey, whatever works. I have a pair of 3" core polished stainless glasspacks that I intend to run after the axle on mine, hoping that it will be quiet enough behind a bigger single (I have some stainless turndowns also so I can basically make the tailpipes look like big, shiny versions of the stock ones if I wanted, but I'm still debating some kind of tips poking out from under the bumper).
man alive that is so sick man , i was think of building a 383 low compression and slapping a supercharger on it and boosting lik 15-25 psi does that sounds resonable? lol
So, do you think it's faster/sounds better with the dual 3"? I'm not sure why you couldn't just run dual 3" pipes with the 4" you had, but hey, whatever works. I have a pair of 3" core polished stainless glasspacks that I intend to run after the axle on mine, hoping that it will be quiet enough behind a bigger single (I have some stainless turndowns also so I can basically make the tailpipes look like big, shiny versions of the stock ones if I wanted, but I'm still debating some kind of tips poking out from under the bumper).
I dont think its much faster with the duals over the single 4". I do believe there is more restriction in the single 4" since my wastegate springs make 8.5 psi with the dual exhaust and it made 10 psi with the single 4". I think there was more of a backpressure issue there. But i also changed the converter at the same time so who knows. The sound with the dual's is much better than single exhaust anyway and the clearance is abit better. Thats the main reason I did it.
Its actually a competition gray. Lot lighter than black chrome but darker looking in the low light/shade conditions.
Finally have C5 brakes on with the powercoated Z06 calipers. Just waiting on brake pads. Still look kinda small but will need to get pics with wheels on to be sure.
Looking good man! You'll notice the improved stopping power over the stock units, combined with hawks pads or equivalent the stopping power is amazing.
Yep I have Hawks HPS pads coming for the front but left the rear LS1 brakes plain jane. I'll change them out sometime, i just hope the brake bias is good with stock valving. I'll feel better if I can stop from 140 mph at my track since it has a relatively short shutdown section.
I'm happy with my 99 trans am's stock brakes. They are much better than my thirdgen brakes w/hawks pads. I believe thats what I'm using on my car now. They grip good once hot but still not the same as my LS1 car. I cant wait to feel how the C5 brakes work. If I dont like these, I may go to the Z06 brakes and change wheels since I doubt they will fit under the C6 18's or so i've heard.
looks good orr! i cant imagine how they will stop but my SSBC force 10 calipers/diamond slotted and grooved rotors with ceramic pads works great! so maybe ull fly through the windshield? lol. wouldnt that suck if the car stopped faster than it accelerated now? haha
is there a way to drill rotors for different bolt patterns? say from chevy 5x4.75" to 5x4.5" ford lug pattern?
wouldnt that suck if the car stopped faster than it accelerated now? haha
Haha I am curious to find out. I dont see how the brakes will pull more g's than it does accelerating but it would be nice to find out. Need to buy a g-tech pro or something.
If you did a different hub conversion you probably could. Just how the LS1/C5 kits use a new spindle/hub made from a stock rotor, you can make one from a different lug pattern rotor and then have to make the caliper bracket to work.
Not sure why you would do this since there are some great sized GM rotors in this stock bolt pattern.
Only other conversion I'd do is the Porsche 911 GT style brakes or some high end road course ready exotic setup. Since my car wont ever see that, I dont need those brakes but it be cool to have.
u should def get a g pro and see what shell do lol
i was gona run mustang rims up front to match my rears bc of my ford 8.8 rear. but they have a diff bolt pattern. which is why i thought i could have GM rotors redrilled for ford lug pattern and just call it a day. my SLP Zr1 17x8s arent cutting it anymore compared to the 17x10.5s out back lol. Ive seen rotors with 8 lug holes that seemed to be different lug patterns advertised which is why i asked
In that case, you may beable to redrill them but hard to say. I am not sure. Or run a spacer on the front the has the conversion built in, if the wheel specs allow it.
OR do the opposite and run spacer on the rear for your ZR1's with the built in conversion. SKulte used to make these but no longer. I'm sure someone else does.
Ok, so I have to say that that is a really nice car you have there! And I have to commend you on all of the work that you have put into this car. I do have a couple of questions though.
1. Are you running an ls style block, or just a dart sbc block?
2. What transmission are you running?
The reason I ask this is, I too have an 87 IROC that I am seriously thinking about making into a turbo project. I have a good 327 motor that I thought might just be a good starting point for a turbo project. Tell me your thought's.
401 cubic inch dart SHP small block chevy. TH400 transmission.
Depends on your goals, but factory blocks are generally said to be pushing the limit at 600-700hp. I didnt want to take that chance and should have bought a Dart Little M but got the SHP instead since its cheaper but still fairly strong from what I've heard/read. 800-850hp now and its holding. I am confident it will hold 1000.
Smaller cube motors can make great turbo projects but check the compression and decide your power goals, then build accordingly.
any new mods in the works checked out your vids very nice. You can make a stock block hold up but it costs more than buying an aftermarket one, I know made that mistake myself after billet caps, line hone, bore, and studs my machine shop bill was well over 1500 and thats not even having cam bearings freeze plugs or anything else just machining still needs to have the coolant passages pluged and decked. I must say I want turbos for it after reading all this.
Need to redo the cooling system. Stock fans arent cutting it in the summer heat. Going to improve the cooling by making ducting to channel air to the rad to improve flow thru the cooling fins.
Brake booster is leaking vacuum but its a smaller leak. It should still work. I need to bed the brakes and hopefully they will improve but right now they suck. Car feels like it has no brakes. If not i'll need to do a new booster and maybe new proportioning valve.
Once I fix those issues its off to finally dyno tune it. See what I can make out of this thing on pump gas.
Over winter I was considering starting on relocation of turbos and such, and even thinking of a bigger cam but I may have to hold off on that for awhile.
a pair of 16" high flow cooling fans should do it. wat rad u running?
honestly i wouldnt even mess with a booster assembly... i replaced mine a while back and if i had to do it again i would go with a hydroboost setup. my bro switched his from vacum booster to hydroboost on his 68 vette and has tons more clearance with his 509 merlin than the stock assembly. sure they cost like 400-500$ but its worth it esp when ur running low vacume. at 10-12" on mine i was having slight issues with braking. also with the hydro boost u can run watever cam u want
14psi, pump gas street tune 
Just watched all your youtube videos. Man your my kind of crazy, awesome car. 
Just kidding, looks very nice. You definetly have one very nice car 
