Power AdderGetting a Supercharger or Turbocharger? Thinking about using Nitrous? All forced induction and N2O topics discussed here.
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Been working on this build for a while now. Engine is a 383 with forged internals, converted victor jr. intake, infiniti Q45 90mm throttle body, and megasquirt EFI. The headers are sch10 1-1/4" stainless pipe, turbo is a 71mm BorgWarner S400 with a 1.32 a/r. The fuel lines and injector rails are also stainless to handle alcohol, as I will be running it on E85.
Transmission is a TH400 with brake that I am in the process of building, rear end is a Ford 9" with Strange nodular iron N-case, detroit locker and 3.15 gears. I still have to order the housing/axle assembly and figure out what I'm doing for brakes.
My goal is to have it running under its own power in the next few months and hopefully out on the road some time this summer.. we'll see how it goes..
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Looks like a badass build you've got going there. I'm assuming since you're running E85 you're not planning on intercooling? How much boost are you looking for?
It looks nice. Did you get the comp. outlet flange and clamp from ATP or someplace else? It is nice to see you got the turbine outlet flange and clamp from a normal diesel shop (Walker products probably) and didn't get a custom machined one for $100 and highly marked up Clampco clamp from a "performance" turbo shop.
The headers look bigger than 1 1/4". If they are 1 1/4" then it will be interesting how the EBP works out with the small pipe and large turbine.
I'm assuming since you're running E85 you're not planning on intercooling? How much boost are you looking for?
Non-intercooled for now, I'm shooting for 10-15psi. Compression is 8.8:1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcltr
It looks nice. Did you get the comp. outlet flange and clamp from ATP or someplace else? It is nice to see you got the turbine outlet flange and clamp from a normal diesel shop (Walker products probably) and didn't get a custom machined one for $100 and highly marked up Clampco clamp from a "performance" turbo shop.
The headers look bigger than 1 1/4". If they are 1 1/4" then it will be interesting how the EBP works out with the small pipe and large turbine.
The flange came from Dave at Majestic turbo back when he was working there. I don't remember the price, but it wasn't bad enough for me to consider spinning my own down on the lathe. The collector v-band flanges I did do on the lathe though. The headers are 1-1/4" pipe, that's 1.66" OD.
Headers are measured by outside diameter, which makes those 1 5/8" primary tube. What size is that pipe out of the turbine, and where do you plan to run it? I've mounted my 91mm more towards the driver side, and am going to run that 5" exhaust under the k-member which will make for 3" ground clearance there unless I decide to oval the pipe some. Is the radiator just going to move forward and down roughly 5"-6" in either direction?
What size is that pipe out of the turbine, and where do you plan to run it? I've mounted my 91mm more towards the driver side, and am going to run that 5" exhaust under the k-member which will make for 3" ground clearance there unless I decide to oval the pipe some. Is the radiator just going to move forward and down roughly 5"-6" in either direction?
Since I'm not using a motor plate, I wanted the turbo mounted to the engine and needed a good mounting point. Putting it with the compressor outlet in line with the intake gave me a good mounting location off the passenger side cylinder head. The downpipe is necking down to 4" and snaking back to the firewall past the starter. It doesn't look like it, but there's enough room for a 90 to bring it back between the strut tower and cylinder head.
I haven't figured out what I'm doing for the radiator yet.. it's definitely got to go forward
I could've put it in place of the front bumper way out front, but chose to put it here:
It wasn't easy to get it to fit there, but it isn't moving anywhere that's for sure.
The flange came from Dave at Majestic turbo back when he was working there. I don't remember the price, but it wasn't bad enough for me to consider spinning my own down on the lathe. The collector v-band flanges I did do on the lathe though. The headers are 1-1/4" pipe, that's 1.66" OD.
Yes, schedule 10 S/S is 1.66" OD, and 1.442" ID. That is like running a standard 1 1/2" primary header........extremely small. I tend to build with the 1 1/2" Schedule stuff. That has an ID of 1.66"...... in between a 1 5/8" and 1 3/4" standard header. It is more difficult to work with but I think the flow is worth it.
Headers are measured by outside diameter, which makes those 1 5/8" primary tube. What size is that pipe out of the turbine, and where do you plan to run it? I've mounted my 91mm more towards the driver side, and am going to run that 5" exhaust under the k-member which will make for 3" ground clearance there unless I decide to oval the pipe some. Is the radiator just going to move forward and down roughly 5"-6" in either direction?
He is using schedule 10 pipe, not standard 16 or 18 ga. pipe. The spec. for shedule 10 he is using is 1.442" ID.
junkcltr, did you oval the center pipes? Mine are butted together at the flanges, 1-1/2" would not fit without ovaling. The combined cross section of 4 1.442 pipes is about 6.5in^2, whereas the cross section of my 2.5" crossover is 4.9in^2, so it should really be the restriction. Even so, the cross section of the T6 flange going into the scroll is lesser still. We'll see how it works.. picking my primary and crossover diameters was a conscious decision to keep exhaust gas velocity high and relatively constant up to the turbo. Now that you mention it I should weld in a bung for some backpressure measurements though.
fast82z, is that a stock size radiator? Got any more pics of what you cut out of the bottom?
That's the stock radiator there. I didn't cut anything out of the bottom yet. I hammered the front frame horns so they'd be a touch wider, but the headlight/header couldn't get wider for the radiator, so I dented in the end tanks a bit to fit there. The actual placement of it is right in front of where the a/c condenser would go. The radiator now comes up from the bottom and a bracket holds it up. Also, I'm going to cut out the bottom of the stock core support for cleanlyness and clearance for my fan, and the radiator is almost as low as the air deflector was thus no longer needed(hopefully).
Cool, I didn't think you'd be able to re-use the stock radiator. I might just get under the car this weekend and see if I can make it work. I've got an oil and trans cooler to stuff up under there too.
fast82z, I see what you're saying about the radiator being nearly as low as the deflector. I managed to get my radiator tucked up inside today and it really does hang down there. Given how scraped up my air deflector is, I know I'll hit something with it eventually given that this car will also be driven on the street. Also, what are you fabbing up in place of the hood latch brace that attached to the core support?
Spun up a few more flanges in the lathe and almost finished up the hotside. I'm waiting for some flex bellows to come in and it will be done. Intake and downpipe hardware should also be in early next week so I can start working on those.
I haven't done anything with that latch to core support connection, and I might not do anything. It still feels pretty solid, but I could run a couple pieces to the front frame horns that'd stiffen it up quite a bit.
Got the intake done (simple), but I'm still waiting on the blowoff valve to come in. 4" downpipe is almost finished now, it's mild steel cause I'm too cheap to buy 4" stainless bends. I had to neck the outlet down directly after the turbo and into a 90 to get it it pointed back. Definately not ideal, but I won't be approaching the limits of this turbo, so I hope that it will be acceptable.
bnoble - I'm very impressed with the work you've done. I'm blown away by the quality of the parts you've been making. Are you doing the welding yourself as well? Looks great.
Thanks, this project has pretty much been a learning experience the whole way and I've just been figuring things out as I go along. The machining and fabrication I've all done myself, but my stepbother initially did a lot of the welding for me. I basically tack welded stuff together, brought it out to his shop, and he finished it for me. He did all the welding on the fuel rails, intake elbow, and the header flanges and pipes.
About three months ago I took an intro tig welding class and got myself a miller maxstar 200str and I've been doing the welding since then. He has an AC tig machine that I borrow for time to time for doing aluminum as well. I've done the exhaust from the collectors onward, as well as the turbo mounting bracket and a few other odds and ends.
I'll search through my folders and dig up some earlier progress pictures of the build.
New gauges being tested as well. That's pretty much it for now. I'm finishing up the hot side and the transmission at the moment. I still have to order a rear end housing and brakes, finish up the fuel system, mount up the radiator(s), and tie up a bunch of loose ends.
junkcltr, did you oval the center pipes? Mine are butted together at the flanges, 1-1/2" would not fit without ovaling.
I cut off one piece of 1 1/2" schedule pipe that is about 1 1/4" long. I tack it to the header flange and mark the front and read walls. I cut off the round piece of the pipe and then weld in two flat pieces. This allows the 1 1/2" schedule pipe to meet the header flange. I use the normal round 1 1/2" pieces attaching to this "starter piece". Use the 1 1/2" schedule also allows you to put a step at the bottom of the port outlet where the schedule pipe meets the flange. This helps block reversion into the exhaust port. That is, assuming there is some, but the turbo allows creates constant back pressure so there probably isn't any.
I don't oval the pipe because it gets too long in the up/down direction. I do the above instead which gives a better fit.
Excellent job. It is nice to see everything done in house/local all DIY.
So you are using the Coil on Plug feature of MSII?
What did you use to mount your crank sensor?
They are in wasted spark mode, but yes I'm using the Coil A-D outputs available in MSII/Extra. I used a trigger wheel from diyautotune and drilled three holes for the crank pulley bolts in it. (The slots already in the wheel won't work because they are spaced every 45 degrees, and chevy damper bolts are spaced at 120 degrees.) I then opened up the center hole of the wheel to about 1" and made a bushing that pilots off the bore of the damper. The pulley then sandwiches the wheel to the damper, meaning that it sticks out about 1/8" farther than stock.
The trigger wheel I have now is actually iteration #2. The first trigger wheel I made started off as a pressure plate out of a 700r4 (I forget exactly which one) which happens to have exactly 36 teeth. I ground one tooth off and opened up the ID to press onto a shoulder that I cut into the pulley. It was actually a very nice setup, but I didn't take into account the fact that the pressure plates are made from sintered steel, and it cracked as I was pressing it on. If you find a better way of mounting one though, it would make a very nice trigger wheel.
So does the wheel affect your serpentine system? Did you shim out all the other pullys, or just leave it. I take it 1/8" isn't a big deal, but maybe I am wrong.
How did you mount the actual pickup? I was thinking of an aftermarket timing pointer and mod it to hold the pickup.
__________________ 1988 RS in parts right now:
Block and crank is 1969 LT1
Rods are Scat H beam
Pistons are SRP 8.0 to 1 CR
Heads are AL Patriot Performance 195cc runners
Master Power T76
TH400 trans
Spohn trans x member with adjustable torque arm
Couldn't you just use a distributor to get a crank signal? I know I use it on my BS3 to make a 4 pulse per cycle signal, and this particular dist. has a trigger for cam sensor too.
For the waste spark on MSII you have to have a 36 to 1 ratio wheel off your crank. It uses the same principle as Ford EDIS waste spark. others who have used MS used to take the EDIS because it had its own modual and coilpacks and use it with MS. Then MS incorporated it.
I guess with some tricky engineering or programing you could use the destributor for your signal.
From what I know they are working on Coil of Plug for MS, like the LS engines. I can't wait till that happens!
__________________ 1988 RS in parts right now:
Block and crank is 1969 LT1
Rods are Scat H beam
Pistons are SRP 8.0 to 1 CR
Heads are AL Patriot Performance 195cc runners
Master Power T76
TH400 trans
Spohn trans x member with adjustable torque arm
So does the wheel affect your serpentine system? Did you shim out all the other pullys, or just leave it. I take it 1/8" isn't a big deal, but maybe I am wrong.
How did you mount the actual pickup? I was thinking of an aftermarket timing pointer and mod it to hold the pickup.
I just have an alternator and a v-belt. I'm making my own bracket for it, so building in a 1/8" offset makes no difference to me. I attached a pic of the VR bracket; It's just a piece of aluminum and two spacers, but it is very rigid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast82z
Couldn't you just use a distributor to get a crank signal? I know I use it on my BS3 to make a 4 pulse per cycle signal, and this particular dist. has a trigger for cam sensor too.
Absolutely, that will work just fine. But I thought about it and decided to go with a trigger wheel instead for several reasons:
First, I planned on using coil packs from the beginning, so ditching the distributor and plug wires cleaned the up the top of the engine a lot.
Second, the crankshaft is the primary reference point in the engine, so getting your timing data there eliminates any timing chain stretch or distributor gear slop and wear that you may have with a distributor.
Third, a 36-1 wheel gives you crankshaft position updates every 10 degrees, or every 5 degrees of camshaft rotation. The significance is that timing advance can be computed as close to a cylinder event as possible. For example, if the engine is accelerating or decelerating very rapidly, it is possible for there to be a significant difference in crankshaft speed between two consecutive cylinder events. If you only have a trigger point every 90 degrees, you can only estimate the current speed of the crankshaft from the last cylinder event, whereas if you have a trigger point every 10 degrees, you have a much better estimate of crankshaft speed from which to calculate the timing of the upcoming cylinder event. Hope I somewhat explained that right..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenchp
For the waste spark on MSII you have to have a 36 to 1 ratio wheel off your crank. It uses the same principle as Ford EDIS waste spark. others who have used MS used to take the EDIS because it had its own modual and coilpacks and use it with MS. Then MS incorporated it.
I guess with some tricky engineering or programing you could use the destributor for your signal.
From what I know they are working on Coil of Plug for MS, like the LS engines. I can't wait till that happens!
MSII/extra will work with a multitude of trigger wheel configurations or distributor setups. EDIS reqires a 36-1 trigger wheel because that's what the EDIS box expects, but by driving the coils directly from megasquirt you can ditch the EDIS box and you have a ton of trigger options available. It just so happens that using the 36-1 wheel is very popular choice, EDIS or not. MSII/extra has 4 ignition outputs, so 4 cylinder COP is already available but 8 cylinder COP will never be. You'll have to wait for the MS Sequencer to be released if you want 8 cylinder COP. It's been in the works for a long time now.. I had been debating on holding out for one before I got my MSII but I'm glad I didn't, or I'd still be waiting today
I think that there is going to be an add on box for COP. That is what I gather from reading the megamanual.
Once I get to the point I will have to see how you wired the coilpacks for waste spark. I need a starting place for a tune too. My compression is 8.0 to 1 though.
__________________ 1988 RS in parts right now:
Block and crank is 1969 LT1
Rods are Scat H beam
Pistons are SRP 8.0 to 1 CR
Heads are AL Patriot Performance 195cc runners
Master Power T76
TH400 trans
Spohn trans x member with adjustable torque arm
A few updates. I got the 4" downpipe out of the engine bay and started working on the rest of the driveline and chassis. The rear end and axles came in and I'm working on getting a set of ford explorer discs installed. Also ordered the subframe connectors and installed them last weekend.
Sumped the tank and ditched the walbro for a little bigger fuel pump. Also got a crossmember for the Th400 and will be putting it in as soon as the converter arrives from Edge.
Also got a new radiator that will be going in pretty much the same place as fast82z put his. The one I got is a little shorter as I was worried about whacking off bottom of the stocker with it hanging so low. I'll be cutting the fittings and the overflow off to put them in better locations.
Ford explorer brakes are on. Stock rotors were redrilled for the GM bolt pattern, brake lines run, and everything mocked up and rolling around on the floor. I had some problems with the wheel studs interfering with the parking brake assembly, so I haven't decided whether or not I'm going to try and deal with that or just run without it.
i think you should understand that you are a very sick man and all this work cant be good for you. i suggest you put it out of your mind and the best way to do that is to get that engine and all of those modifications out of your sight. consider me a friend who is willing to help. i will come over and pick all those things up just to get them out of your way.
nicely done. lost of attention to detail.
! 
