BOTLFED

It was a little cramped in places, but all in all, it's coming along well.. I've pretty much got everything tac'd in place and ready for the final welding.. I absolutly cannot wait to take it for a spin..

Here is an over head pic of it, there are a few more on my site if you want to check them out.



Let me know what you think.

Cheers!

Guido

Your projet is coming together pretty good!

Its too bad you cant reclock that passneger side turbo around to point the other way. That is a pretty agressive bend on it to get out of the battery box. With that actuator in the way though, would make life tough.

Otherwise it is looking good!

Anxious to see what this thing will do.

bhaas

Sweeeeeeet. I know how you feel. I have driven my car but haven't really had any fun with it. I got oil coming out of one of my compressors. Gonna fix that today then I can have some fun. Let us know how your first test drive goes. What are you using for a fuel system? Do you have a BOV? I think I might have to get one. When I'm in full boost and let off I have too much backpressure on my carb (or something) and car wants to die then comes back after about a minute. Plus I heard you can bend your throttle blades with too much PSI. I'm sure gonna hate putting a hole in the new bonnet I bought. Keep up the good work.

Brad...

BOTLFED

Thanks guys, this is just too much fun

Guido: You got that right.. I was pissed when I figured out that this was the only way I could clock the housing without going through the battery box... /sigh..

Bhass: I've been following your updates on the test drives, what a bummer about that seal.. Hopefully the .060 restriction in the oil feed line helps..

For a fuel system, I'm using a Carter mechanical 120gph fuel pump which I am going to boost reference.. If it got the JYT crapi into the low 10's, it's good enough for now. I had originally bought the Mallory 4309 boost referenced FPR, but didn't want to shell out the money for a better pump than my Holley blue.. Soooo, I sold my holley blue and Mallory FPR to my bro.. (he's turboin' his Hurricane)

I havn't gotten the BOV yet, but I'll probably get one of those Bosch plastic units from a Saab or one from a DSM. Hrm, you don't really have any other options besides the carb hat to mount your BOV do you... Oh well, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Cheers!

Guido

Brad, what if you took and cut a section out of your rubber hose or whatever it is made of, and put a 3" or 4" section of metal pipe in there with a flange for a BOV welded to it? That would help you to avoid putting a hole in your carb hat.

bhaas

I was just thinking I could T in 2 BOV valves into the hoses going to the bonnet. That should work. Will have to look into that. If not. Guess I'll be putting a hole in my spendy *** bonnet.

Bobalos

Someone on the blow through board had mentioned that they were getting some disctribution problems & could not figure out why it was doing that. he re-clocked the hat on thier carb & found that the disctribuation problem fixed itself. I dont recall what carb it was or what hat it was, but I would guess that both of them have an affect on this & that some are better & worse than others. I am would bet that he has the worst of both.

BW

BOTLFED

Actually, why not just plumb it into the collecter at the carb hat? The Bosch BOV is pretty small and doesn't require a large connection tube..



Not a real eye catcher, but functional... Ebay has a few, just search for "Bosch BOV".

Cheers

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

BOTLFED- I'm curious, how did you build the 'collector' where the 2 inlets come together? That looks pretty sweet.

Any better pictures of the passenger side? I'm not sure I see what you guys are talking about.

bhaas- there isn't a real need for a BOV on most turbo setups, especially not with an auto. Are you getting black smoke when you let off and it tries to shut down? My first guess would be that when you shut the throttle the boost in the intake goes down while the boost in the inlet in front of the throttle plates goes up, gets in to the bowls (bowl vents) and forces extra fuel into the engine causing a momentary very rich condition. Most BOV's only open when you get an extreme pressure spike, so you'll still go rich with one just not as badly as now. I'm not sure what the carb guys do to get around that, I'd imagine I'd try rerouting the vent(s)/adding check valves so that they see manifold boost pressure or outside air pressure whichever is greater at the time. If you would rather just deal with the pre carb pressure, maybe you could rig something like what we did on my brother's car for a bypass, we built a butterfly that operates right off the throttle linkage that only closes completely at WOT, so as soon as you let of the throttle the bypass is wide open. It works very well and it cannot be forced open like most BOV designs.

The fuel distribution problems that you guys are talking about seem to come from 2 sources: dual plane intakes just don’t seem happy with boost, at least not as happy as single plane where everything coming through the carb is forced into one big chamber and the then individual cylinders use that as they can. Second, most carbs don’t like air flow coming in at an angle and blowing across the top of the carb. The carb hats that you guys are using for the most part are not designed for boost but to relocate the filter in a tight application, and are not really tall enough. If you came up with a taller carb hat or one that pretty much fed the air flow straight down you wouldn’t have to mess with clocking or other issues to choose the best distribution.

Also, be aware that the crapi never really got enough fuel flow and ended up with an auxiliary fuel system and injector mounted in the tube feeding the carb that was triggered by a hobbs switch.

kevin v

the bonnet that bhass has was designed for boost while maintaining some hood clearence. the k/n is a piece of sh*t. causes all kinds of turbulence. if mike sitar had the good bonnet and a good fuel system he could have went deep in the 9's and he would'nt have needed the auxillary fuel supply. toohighpsi is a cool web site . it just does'nt steer you in the right direction for proper fuel systems or air bonnets. which happen to be two of the most important pieces to the puzzle for blow thru along with the calibration of the carb itself. mike sitar was'nt doing anything that was not tried 20+years ago except for the fact he was able to add an electronic fuel injector in the mix. the old school guys just dis-missed carbs alltogether after fuel injection came out because they did not totally understand what was going on. get those few things right in your system and it will haul azz, and live. junkyard built or otherwise.

MdFormula350

nice looking!!

sleepybu

someone got a pt# on that unit???

BOTLFED

83 Crossfire TA: I can't take full credit for the collector.. My bro gave me the idea and helped me out with it.. We used 2 2.5" 90 degree bends into one 3" inlet. We took the two 90's and but them bend to bend and decided on the right angle to point the inlet sides of the bends... Then, take a straight edge and lay it across the two pipes near the exit of the bends and draw a mark where the straight edge touches.. Now, carefully cut a peice off of each bend perpendicular to the outlet at the mark... Make sence? lol, probably not... ummm... Let me draw you a pic



Then you just massage the leftover pipe to be the right diameter of the 3" pipe when the two bends are together.. Really slick I must say..

On the fuel side of things, they did get rid of the injector and richened up the carb.. They said it worked ok, but street driving wasn't quite as smooth as with the injector so I think they may have went back to it.. For me, it's all about WOT performance, don't care much if it's not totally street frendly...

Keven V: Yea, I'll be dissappointed if my car only runs 10's too...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You know, that's exactly what I thought you did. I once did that for a y-pipe and the cutting and fitting was easy... but it took me almost the rest of the day (well, middle of the night) to get it welded well, and it didn't look that good when it was done. Of course, that was when I first got my welder, maybe I could do better now. Somehow I was hoping that you came up with some trick to make it easy

kevin v

i'm sure you won't be. but you will when your burning pistons or pushing head gaskets trying to get there with a mechanical fuel pump. there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. mike sitar left a lot on the table with the same engine and turbo set-up. he did not know about bonnets. he did not understand what kind of fuel system was required or he just did'nt care and tried to make due with what he had. i'll bet you money he burned pistons and lost head gaskets trying to get where he was. make sure you make a copy of all this and go back to it after your first couple trips to the track. if your going to spend all the time and money to build a turbo system why only go half way on the other important stuff to make it all work correctly?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, since I know Mike I can reasonably state that that he knows exactly what he was leaving on the table (He's worked as an engineer for Eaton and Lycoming and now going back to Eaton, and has had some involvement in engine controlls), which is why every car that he's built since then has used a TECII and now that he's found something better (AEM) he's junking the TECII off of his single turbo 'bird (probably going on his 'vette).

The fact is that you've got to realize that there is a big difference between leaving something on the table for street use and for racing. Really, you can tune something very primitive quite well for drag racing, since it really doesn't have to work well except at WOT. That being said, I've seen his dad's TT mustang crank and fire instantly on a 20* night while covered with snow (it was durring a snow storm last winter) just like a modern production car, so it can't be that bad.

BOTLFED

83 Crossfire TA: I am by no means an expert welder, but what did you find hard about welding them together? I tac'd it together with the mig and then used my SS rods on the Arc and went to town..

Keven V: I'm sure if you knew me better, you'd understand. I agree with you that a nice electric setup would be best/proper, but I wanted to do this on a budget.. (getting married in 4 months == no money for car) When all is said and done, the complete build up will be less than 1500 canadian dollars, which is like, what? 500 bucks US? rofl..

The mechanical I have flows 120gph and as long as it shows the correct pressure at the carb, everything should be fine (for now). The Mallory Comp 140 flows 140gph and is 2 or 3 times the price. I couldn't really justify it right now..

As you can probably tell, I have a total lack of respect for the proper way things should be done.. I like to see how far I can push things.. Take for instance, my stock bottom end in my car now.. I regularly put 150hp shot to it and take it to 7k, it likes it!

Either way, I respect and appreciate your input, thanks.

Cheers!

bhaas

I'm using a mech. pump right now and it looks just like the carter but with the Holley name on it and chrome. It's not working. I didn't want to spend the money on an electric one either plus it's more work and I'm lazy. Now that pump has bit me in the ***. I'm gonna take it off next week cause I have to work this weekend so I can't do it sooner. I'm also pulling through the pump in the tank. But I was doing that before using the return line for fuel and had no probs till I went to this Holley pump. Could just be a bad pump though to. Won't know till I take it off. It makes the motor go so lean that the lights on the A/F gauge go completely off. But I'm still in testing mode so I'm not hammering on the car yet. Haven't even gone WOT yet. Just be carefull with that mech. pump is all I have to say.

Brad...

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Donno... just couldn't get the mig nossle in some of the tighter spots to get a decent weld. I'm surprized you got something that looks that decent using an arc welder in on thin wall tubing.

BOTLFED

Brad: Man, that totally sucks! Well, if it does turn out that it won't work for me either, I've got a couple months before summer to save my pennies =).. Good luck and let me know when you get it sorted..

83 Crossfire TA: Ohhhh, I see what you mean, don't be fooled by my pics . In the pic on my web site, I hadn't done the outside with the arc welder yet.. All I had done at that point was take the mig and run a beed on the inside of it. I guess it looks like I put a small weld on the outside doesn't it... Also, there is no way I could have gotten the mig nozzel in between the two pipes on the outside, that's where the Arc came in real handy.. I'll post pics after I finish grinding and polishing the outside..

Oh yea, it's not real thin wall either, it's pretty thick, thicker than normal exhaust tubing.. I'm also using real small SS rods @ 50 amps.. Even then, I have to be real carefull not to burn through.

Cheers!