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Old 05-21-2004, 11:22 PM   #1
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My cheap, DIY, Twin Turbo Project Part1

Everyones jumping on the Turbo Bandwagon these days. Me too!

Im keeping it as simple as possible, using pretty inexpensive things everywhere I can. Ill just post pics and answer questions, to keep the whole thing short.

Here are some progress pictures, I started yesterday. Im also doing a Roller cam Retro-Fit at the same time, to get the most from the turbo's I felt it necessary to remove the largisg (234/244 @.050 ) camshaft and install a much more friendly turbo cam, a Turbo Grind that I picked out with the help of Crossfire TA and my own personal preference. (224/224 @ .050 .503 Lift 114LSA) Ill be using the V6 Junkyard Lifters to complete the retro fit. Didnt skimp on the hardware, though. All new springs, locks, retainers, and seats were purchased through comp.

Now for the pictures...
starting with the turbos, TD06-17C (possibly 20G, rebuilt by previous owner who traded them to a friend, who traded them to me...) supposedly the 17C is good for 350-400 horsepower each, and the 20G is good for 450~ each. either way, on either compressor map, im in a very safe zone and making decent power/efficiency.
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:24 PM   #2
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then the intercoolers, previous owner created them from a large deisel truck intercooler I THINK. They seem thick enough, Ill try them and record the IAT and MAT temps to see if they are any good. pressure drop will be a factor, we will see what they do.
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:25 PM   #3
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Cut open the STOCK L98 Manifolds for the turbo extensions
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:26 PM   #4
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manifold extensions, they are very thick, to prevent warpage from heat and weight of the turbo. Approx 1/4" thick, with extra metal in all 4 corners to be safe.
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:30 PM   #5
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Dont want to post a million pics, this is the last one for now, have a TON more if someone feels like hosting them for me

if you want to see a particular picture, such as how thick the extensions are, or what they are made from, or how i blocked off the manifolds, or what rod I used to weld them, etc... ask I have all those pics too. last pic is my cam card, in case anyone wants to copy my custom roller cam. thanks to Crossfire TA for support on choosing a good one.
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Old 05-22-2004, 12:07 AM   #6
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Lookin good

Any pics of the manifolds further out? How hard was it to weld to them?

The slight overlap on the valve timing should work very well with a forced induction setup. It's also great for producing bottom end TQ on N/A cars.

I found a website a while back on a guy's 2.3 turbo stang, who had made a massive intercooler out of 3 large volvo cores and custom side tanks. He only reported a 1 psi loss while using all aluminum tubing. When he had the rubber boots on it still connecting all the tubes, he was at about 3 psi loss. Keep in mind that this was only a single T3 on a 4 cyl, too. If what that guy said is true, I don't think you'll have to much of an issue with your setup.

Keep us updated
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Old 05-22-2004, 12:53 AM   #7
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Buddy of mine runs a 17C on his laser. I hear it is very inefficient...you sure its big enough to feed a v8?
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Old 05-22-2004, 01:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by 88Camaro350
Buddy of mine runs a 17C on his laser. I hear it is very inefficient...you sure its big enough to feed a v8?
I happen to be running 2 of them, and they are very inefficient until about 1.5 PR; I plan on running in the 1.6-1.8PR to start with, and according to the compressor map they are far more effieicnt than any T3 above about 1.6PR. we will see though, no proof yet
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:04 AM   #9
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<b>Any pics of the manifolds further out? How hard was it to weld to them? </b>


very simple to weld, the L98 manifolds are cast STEEL, not iron, so I didnt even bother pre-heating them or peening them.

Just cleaned up the area real good, then used a CAST/NICKEL rod and a high amperage arc welder to fill it in. Have not welded on the extensions yet, have to triple check they are at the proper angles before i do the final welds.

Did weld the stock exit exhaust spots on the manifolds shut though. came out very good...
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:10 AM   #10
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here is the weld on the manifold. It looked sort of blue/redish (like raw nickel) because of the nickel content in the rod.
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:12 AM   #11
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Looks like a very clean job on them. This is the kind of stuff that gets me excited, is the budget horsepower. It's much more challenging than buying everything pre-made and installing it.

Great job
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Old 05-22-2004, 06:59 AM   #12
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Feel free to e-mail me any pic's you want hosetd. I'll put em up with the rest of the turbo pictures I have in the file.
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Old 05-22-2004, 10:06 AM   #13
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How much boost are you hoping to see from those 2?

Man all this turbo talk makes me wanna do it to. Would take me a lot of money and a ton of fabbed up hoses....hmmm TT carbed 350
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Old 05-22-2004, 02:30 PM   #14
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DIY JY turbocharging actually isn't as expensive as you think...setup reusing the stock manifold on my V6, while obvious to anyone isn't the most efficient system, only ended up running about 100 bucks and regardless of how pretty it isn't, still spools the turbocharger. Looks good, Kingtal0n

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Old 05-23-2004, 03:01 PM   #15
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Kingtal0n:
Those manifolds look strikingly familiar.
Where did you ever get that crazy idea??

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Old 05-23-2004, 03:08 PM   #16
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Here is my RH TT manifold made from a stock cast manifold:
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Old 05-23-2004, 09:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by 89JYturbo
Kingtal0n:
Those manifolds look strikingly familiar.
Where did you ever get that crazy idea??
Actually there is a story behind that. The same day I found the turbos, I saw your post with those manifolds in it when I got home. It hit me right then, it wouldnt be too hard to do, so I went back and asked the guy what he wanted for the turbos. He had no idea what they were, neither did I, so he sold em to me for $125 each. I went home, and posted a parts wanted ad on thirdgen.org for L98 manifolds. Next day, Br1dgeman calls me up and says he has some, and will deliver them personally. So the project began... I went back to the place i got the turbos and the guy had found some intercoolers that the previous owner was going to use with em, so he gave those to me too.

Turns out they are upgraded (We think) Syclone turbos... and completelly rebuilt from the fact there is no oil in them at all, and ZERO shaft play to boot. A few of the local speed shops (South Florida Performance, Street legal Imports, etc..) have identified them as Syclone turbos, along with part numbers, but there is a debate as to whether the compressor was upgraded to 20G or not.

Either way, in 17C or 20G form, they will easilly push me up to 12PSI of boost in a very efficient range of the turbo, well away from surge together, this I gather both from the math I have done with the compressor maps, and from what Crossfire TA has told me. I figured at the same time I did the turbo swap, I would do a roller cam retro fit into my pre-86 block as well.... so i found some junkyard V6 lifters and got a custom comp grind to match the turbos. so far, so good.
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Old 05-23-2004, 09:36 PM   #18
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Just an update, yesterday while clearanced the block for the dogbones to retain the lifters, I cut into a water jacket.

today I fixed it up, first I tried welding, then brazing, then finnaly I just JB Welded the hole closed because none of the above seemed to work. I also installed my #8 oil return fittings into the oil pan, basically cut the hole big enough for them to thread in, and used JB weld (again) to seal them in place. man, this stuff is great. I also tack welded up the driver side manifold for welding tommarow...

<b> 89JYturbo </b>
I would like to know how close your downpipe came to the master cylinder. as it is, mine is VERY close and its going to be a squeeze and bend to get it to clear off towards the motor. Maybe my turbos are just a little bigger than yours, but its tight right there.
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Old 05-24-2004, 02:39 AM   #19
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Ah! Now I know why you were looking for manifolds. Well I checked the ones I got and they will be perfect for what you're doing. Lemme know if you still want them and I'll calculate shipping. I would much rather see them put to use this way than get trashed.
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Old 05-24-2004, 07:12 AM   #20
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Your gona trust your motor to JB Weld holding colsed a waterjacket mishap??

I hope this is a Junk motor your just tossing together untill the real deal is finished being built for boost??
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Old 05-24-2004, 11:03 AM   #21
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Old 05-24-2004, 04:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by TPl383
Your gona trust your motor to JB Weld holding colsed a waterjacket mishap??

I hope this is a Junk motor your just tossing together untill the real deal is finished being built for boost??
No kidding... As if the homade retrofit kit was not bad enough lets add insult to injury and fill the holes with JB weld...

And after reading about all of this $$$$$$$ to be saved doing the bootleg homemade retrofit I guess the cost of a destroyed block was not factored in... LOL
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Old 05-24-2004, 05:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenwood
No kidding... As if the homade retrofit kit was not bad enough lets add insult to injury and fill the holes with JB weld...

And after reading about all of this $$$$$$$ to be saved doing the bootleg homemade retrofit I guess the cost of a destroyed block was not factored in... LOL
No crap. I know they claim ungodly results on the label, but I would never trust the JBCrap on anything important to me.

U are gonna spend more money freakin fixing the messups than just forking over the money upfront for the retrofit kit...
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Old 05-24-2004, 06:50 PM   #24
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ROFLMAO at cutting into the water jacket while 'saving money' doing a hack-job to 'retro-fit' roller lifters into the block. Sometimes it just doesn't pay to try to save a few bucks i guess.

Of course, if you were able to hit the water jacket in one spot, i imagine it's pretty thin everywhere else too.

Even funnier that you're still going to try to run it with JB weld on the block.


Who wants to lay money on what leaks first. The JB welded hole, or a new hole from a thin spot elsewhere? I have my money on a thin spot, just because that will be the only thing funnier than the JB weld itself.
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Old 05-24-2004, 07:24 PM   #25
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Why did you have to go and say that? Now he's just gonna coat the entire galley with it, so there! No leaks now right?...
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Old 05-24-2004, 08:36 PM   #26
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give him a break...

first of all do some research on the JY roller lifter thing, its really not that bad, i'd probably do it if i didn't have a roler cam block

as far as the JB weld goes i dont recomend it of course, but i do have a friend with a crx... sposedly had some special motor in it (plus a turbo), well after shifting it at 7500+ RPMs he put a 4" hole in the side of the block, and when looking for a new motor found a rotating assembly, but couldn't find that special block.... so he JB welded the 3-4 big chunks of metal back together on the block... and its been running for about 5000 miles so far.. he's just shifting a little lower, but still runs the boost.... im am not saying this was a good idea, but if it was a pretty tiny hole then he'll probably be fine

i would worry bout the other spots being very thin though

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Old 05-24-2004, 09:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kingtal0n
<b> 89JYturbo </b>
I would like to know how close your downpipe came to the master cylinder. as it is, mine is VERY close and its going to be a squeeze and bend to get it to clear off towards the motor. Maybe my turbos are just a little bigger than yours, but its tight right there.
Good question! I had to modify the lines coming out of the master cylinder. Instead of taking the factory path straight down, they come around the front of the fluid reservoir, back towards the firewall (on the LH side of the MC), and then down to the prop valve. Its hard to explain. I will see if I can find you a pic.

Possibly even more of a problem though is how to snake the downpipe between the LH manifold and the steering shaft. You will need to reposition some brake lines to go between the steering shaft and the framerail (from the factory they go between the steering shaft and the manifold- look at your car and you should see what i mean). Then you will need to smash (uh- I mean massage) your downpipe to approx 1.75" to fit between the manifold and the shaft. I will try to get you a picture of this as well.

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Old 05-24-2004, 09:50 PM   #28
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stevedave454, I would, but how much does a truck or van block go for with the provisions already cast? $50-$100 at the yard? With the guts even? If they want the bloody thing just go that route and scrounge the parts that way and through ebay. They can even brag about a four bolt block. I can't beleive these guys don't just go and find a later caprice with the 350 and all either. But hell, maybe I'm just lazy.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:09 PM   #29
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Hope this pic helps with your brake clearance issues. It is the best pic I could find at the time. I took a lot of pictures though, as this was one of my problem areas. You can see how my downpipe runs under the MC, so I had to reroute the lines up, left, back, and then down. They just loop around the master cylinder instead of going straigh down. You will need an ISO bubble flare (metric) tool to make the proper flare on your lines.

Don't forget to add the heat shielding to the MC! I was worried that heat would cause problems with the plastic fluid reservoir, but no problems appeared in several thousand miles of driving. I know its tight in this area- hope you have some luck with it.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:18 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by stevedave454
give him a break...

first of all do some research on the JY roller lifter thing, its really not that bad, i'd probably do it if i didn't have a roler cam block
Im giving NO BREAKS when it comes to the biggest f'n hack job Ive EVER seen on these boards and my friends, Ive been around for a long time now.

My side the whole time was spend the money in the right place and BUY THE COMP CAMS RETROFIT LIFTERS. But no someone wants to go rob the lifter valley spider, lifters, retainers, etc out of a junkyard. Why not take the whole block in the first place.

My final stance on the homemade roller cam job: NO BREAKS! ITS A HACKJOB.
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Old 05-24-2004, 10:20 PM   #31
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LOL guys the JB weld was a joke!

whew.

I actually did weld up the hole and the other spots I clearanced were no where near this high up, just so happened the wheel was a bit too big...

anyways, its all back together now, I just have to throw on the turbos and get it going. Should be running in 1-2 more days...

I DID use some JB weld on the fitting in the back of the manifolds where it goes from 1/8"pipe to #3AN, because of the clearanceing for the stealthram It seemed sort of weak. thats the only spot that has JB weld on it though... so sue me!
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Old 05-24-2004, 11:41 PM   #32
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Whew... This would have ranked up there when the guy took the electric bilge motor and hooked it up to his intake.
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Old 05-25-2004, 05:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kingtal0n
LOL guys the JB weld was a joke!...

Quote:
Originally posted by Kingtal0n
...today I fixed it up, first I tried welding, then brazing, then finnaly I just JB Welded the hole closed because none of the above seemed to work. ...
Didn't even remotely sound like a joke. No inclination whatsoever that you were joking. And I am still under the impression that you did it. I still rank it up there with the leaf blower crap. Didn't see the bilge pump.
Maybe when this stops amusing me I'll take a peek.
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Old 05-25-2004, 11:38 AM   #34
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Hey, at least if he rigged up the engine, he won't feel guilty to give it an insane amount of boost! If it blows up, he didn't loose too much.

Anyway, here is a pic of the LH downpipe where it must squeeze between the steering shaft and the manifold. Doesn't look too bad here on the engine stand, but try fabbing this downpipe with the engine installed and the brake booster, MC, and lines all in your way. Notice how it is pinched down to approx 1.75" (from 2.5") to fit.
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:54 PM   #35
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Going to use seat foam for your air filter?
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:28 PM   #36
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No way man...not seat foam... but what about a Bilge pump blower feeding in series to the turbos...LOL
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:08 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red Devil



Didn't even remotely sound like a joke. No inclination whatsoever that you were joking. And I am still under the impression that you did it. I still rank it up there with the leaf blower crap. Didn't see the bilge pump.
Maybe when this stops amusing me I'll take a peek.
No I didnt mean It was a JOKE as in HAHA FUNNY I meant it was a JOKE as in " what a joke " after i did it. Heres a pic to prove it... See any JB weld?

What you DO see is some spot welds, like I said, to hold down the studs for the retainer.
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:10 PM   #38
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here is the finished assembled. no jb weld... just a small line of nickel in the pin-hole i created that you can barelly see in the pic.
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:14 PM   #39
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progress
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:15 PM   #40
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.
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:22 PM   #41
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Yikes. You have even less clearance to the MC than what I did. But it looks really cool. This is the point where the project starts to get exciting, isn't it? Seeing those turbos under the hood will sure keep you motivated!
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Old 05-27-2004, 08:25 PM   #42
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oh yeah, ive already run the downpipes they are done. it comes real close to the MC, but i put a large heat shield between the two like you suggested. when i see how hot those downpipes get maybe ill wrap them in header wrap or get the pipes coated or something if it becomes a problem.
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Old 05-30-2004, 12:27 AM   #43
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Progress...

Started it today to break in the cam and get things toasty. everything seems to be in working order...

tommarow i hook up the intake pipes and give it some boost! hopefully.
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Old 05-30-2004, 12:29 AM   #44
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Im running twin front mounts, in front of the radiator. they feed up towards the core support, and bend towards the throttle body. Yes the hood still closes.

My next biggest problem is how to clamp a 4" oval tube into the throttle body. for some weird reason, JB weld keeps coming to mind

JK
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Old 05-30-2004, 02:37 AM   #45
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Check out the plumbing section at the local hardware, should have thick rubber adapters to join different size/type of pipe. They cost about $6 ea. here.

Looks like it's really coming together good, keep the updates rollin'
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Old 05-30-2004, 04:48 AM   #46
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On a side note about the JBweld - I had an 85 corolla I got free from my uncle. He was nice enough to break off the thermostat housing from the block (on of the ears with a threaded bolt hole in it). my dad and I JB welded it together (with no t-stat i might add) now almost 3 years later the car is still rolling around...

We also glued the radiator of an accord back together after I wrecked it. Don't know what happened to that POS though.
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Old 05-30-2004, 11:33 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kingtal0n
oh yeah, ive already run the downpipes they are done. it comes real close to the MC, but i put a large heat shield between the two like you suggested. when i see how hot those downpipes get maybe ill wrap them in header wrap or get the pipes coated or something if it becomes a problem.

Thats great. Did you have to modify your brake lines at all, or did you just bend them out of the way?

Your welding on the manifolds sure looks nicer than mine!
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Old 05-30-2004, 10:27 PM   #48
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Actually I didnt touch the brake lines, I ran the downpipe straight down and back as close to the engine as possible, away from the brake lines.

the only part of the brake system thats in any danger of getting too hot is the very tip of the master cylinder... after running for a while it gets hot but not too hot to touch... but i havnt put it under boost yet.


In another UPDATE:
Today I welded in the blow off valves, and connected most of the intake tubes. I held my hands over the outlets of the intercoolers and revved the motor; and noticed two things:
thing #1: the tune of the motor is WAY OFF. I got like 3 backfires out of this thing just trying to slowly open the throttle. Gota get the computer on it..

thing #2: the blow off valves sound real cool
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Old 06-01-2004, 08:01 AM   #49
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Kingtal0n. Welding question?

So the L98 manifold is cast steel as opposed to cast iron. Are any other GM mainfolds cast steel as well so we have more options for scrounging up a set of manifolds?
Also you used a Cast/Nickel rod. What is the # of that rod? Is it a AC or DC rod? Could I use a 6013 rod?

Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2004, 09:28 AM   #50
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To attach the oval tube to the tb GO TO EBAY AND TYPE SILICONE HOSE...LOOK FOR(sorry caps) look for 4" in whatever color you want...Much better than hardware store rubber>>> then find a shop with or buy a bead roller....have a 1/4 bead rolled into the tube...then buy some 4" closed stainless t-bolt clamps....that will keep everything in check...
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