Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z - Page 14 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

Orr89RocZ · 12-26-2011, 03:21 PM

Headers are dark colored, and seems like some flakes of material on it that may be either left over wrap that melted to glass or actual metal. I cant tell for sure. Its dark but doesnt look much different than exhaust parts anywhere else on the car. It may be degrading abit due to the intense heat...but I have had no cracks in that short time I ran it. So far so good. Tubing still looks pretty thick in some areas like it was before, so not sure that short amount of run time has hurt anything or not.

Alot of guys on turboforums say they have had no issues for 10's of thousands of miles wiht wrapped mild steel. Hard to say what to expect, but alot of guys say the tune plays an important role. If you have too much exhaust burning in the pipes, they will wear out faster.

UR50SLO · 12-26-2011, 04:55 PM

I ended up wrapping my S-10 headers back in the day and it fatigued the metal over a year of daily driving.... I welded them a hundred times.. the wrap does such a good job of holding in heat it cooks the metal.
Unless it's cast iron I'd High Temp Coat them and be done. Mild just doesn't like it over time.
~Scott

1989GTATransAm · 12-26-2011, 05:32 PM

How about a ceramic thermal barrier coating inside and out? That is what I am using on my headers.

Orr89RocZ · 12-26-2011, 10:58 PM

Thought about coating but under these heat conditions, i'm not sure how well that would work. The reason I wrapped them before was to keep heat off the brake booster and spark plug wires.... the turbo and turbine sat right on top of the booster before and I was worried. I never had a problem tho, so all the shielding I put around the sensitive areas must have helped.

Now I may not wrap these... I will have to see how the heat goes. If it helps spool I may wrap it all again. Or maybe just around the collector. I definately dont want to fatigue this setup..i want this to last a few years

Down the road if I get time I will make it out of thick stainless weld els.

IF i get my pushods by end of tomorrow I will definately start doing the top end assembly. Headers will be welded up tomorrow hopefully and I can maybe get the new motor started by the weekend before my break is over. Lots left to do unfortunately so no rush

34blazer · 12-26-2011, 11:05 PM

or build a heat sheild around the headers and wrap that? sorta like a oem exhaust mani/header

Orr89RocZ · 12-31-2011, 08:26 PM

Got one side just about done. Tacked up, ready to weld and then I gotta do the downpipe and wastegate stuff.

Guideplates on the heads are all adjusted and rocker studs torqued in. Ready for pushrods and I can start buttoning up the top end of the motor. Water pump is on, just waiting to do the rest of the exhaust before I put everything back on.

one92rs · 12-31-2011, 09:02 PM

darnit orr i sure wish that car could make it to houston one time.

34blazer · 12-31-2011, 09:38 PM

1989GTATransAm · 12-31-2011, 09:48 PM

Amazing work. You have many skills.

Orr89RocZ · 01-01-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by one92rs

darnit orr i sure wish that car could make it to houston one time.

Yeah, i'd love to have it down here but for now, I just dont have the space for it and its definately not a highway car which Houston seeems to be 90% highway driving. Oh well, the rebuild is far from done so if I expect to get this running before 2012 ends, then I may need to move the car south

Its only pushrods away from being able to run all motor. If I had a pair of shorty headers for it I could drive it around as is which I had planned on doing but now that may wait.

gta324 · 01-01-2012, 02:22 PM

nice job!

1bad91Z · 01-01-2012, 02:59 PM

Are you in PA at the moment?

Orr89RocZ · 01-02-2012, 12:12 AM

Car remains in PA.. I just went up last week and a half for the holidays to see the family. Just got back to Houston tonight

11ellswray · 01-09-2012, 03:10 AM

subscribed! awesome thread, read the whole thing straight through.... got work tomorrow... Orr you are one crazy guy

FSTFBDY · 01-14-2012, 10:44 AM

Looking great man. Looking great. On a side note. Thermal coatings will hold up just fine. Ive done alot of headers and turbo housing in black and silver. (black is a 2 stage. Silver 1st and a black color top coat)

Can't wait to see this combo done.

Orr89RocZ · 01-15-2012, 11:06 PM

Thought about coating the headers but then again, if they start to crack or something, i'd have to scrape off that nice coating to reweld.

We shall see. I want these to last a while before I go quad turbo

1989GTATransAm · 01-15-2012, 11:11 PM

"I want these to last a while before I go quad turbo"

Quad Turbo????????

Orr89RocZ · 01-16-2012, 08:23 AM

Yep, thought about doing a quad turbo setup just to be different. Wouldnt be too hard to do, the turbos would be small enough I can fit them in the engine bay without much fuss. Driver side would be the tougher one to do, but I already have an idea how to do it.

I once saw a 57 or so chevy with a V8 with 8 turbos in the engine bay. Show car but still made like 700whp or something.

FSTFBDY · 01-17-2012, 07:56 PM

Didnt BBSD do a quad turbo set up on his gta?
I have a pic here of a v8 with 8turbos in a ols rat rod stye tbucket.

Orr89RocZ · 01-18-2012, 08:34 AM

I cant recall, I wanted to say that sounds familar but its been along time.

Street Lethal · 01-18-2012, 11:19 AM

TransAmGTA88 · 01-18-2012, 11:41 AM

Damn! I can honestly say I've never seen that before.

Orr89RocZ · 01-18-2012, 12:43 PM

Ok that does look familiar. Same kinda thing I want to do but on a larger scale

vortec350s10 · 01-18-2012, 01:39 PM

Haven't been following you for a while, apparently I've been spending too much time in the garage! You've been busy! I like the new setup. Question for ya- have you hear much about flex couplings failing pre-turbo? I did some research and couldn't find much. I am using the OBX racing ebay 2.5" flex joints 4 inches long. I hope they will hold up, being they have stainless mesh on the inside as well has me a little worried....but who knows.

Orr89RocZ · 01-18-2012, 03:30 PM

You know, i've read that they can fail pre turbo but have only seen one actually fail.

http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...ling-look.html

Havent searched for it often but then again I should have seen it while looking for advice on pre turbo flex pipes to begin with.

The ones I have from Treadstone are stainless steel with inner bellow lining that is suppose to be good for high heat and pressure in a pre turbo application. Hope to see how they last.

FSTFBDY · 01-18-2012, 08:02 PM

as with any flex . Its all about the quality in the piece.

Ya thats the picture I was looking for of the quad turbos.

vortec350s10 · 01-18-2012, 08:11 PM

Thanks for that link, that's pretty crazy. I guess I'll be checking mine every so often. The quad turbo is pretty sweet! Super fast spooling, not to mention the cool factor.

Orr89RocZ · 04-21-2012, 11:03 PM

Alright alot has been going on since last update.

I basically finished mocking up the hotside to the turbo but have to do downpipes and wastegates yet. Shouldnt take too long but the main headers are welded up and ready to go.

Motor I had some issues with. I decided to go with Morel lifters instead of the LS7's just for safety really. Big valve, with big boost hopefully and aggressive cam just puts a beating on lifters. Dont want to have the ls7's start collapsing on me and lose hp. So i'll put them in my 99 TA when I do heads/cam.

Heads I have now originally come with a 68cc chamber. My AFR's were 65, so I wanted to shave these down to 64 to keep 9 to 1. Well that leaves head port abit thin on the base.

So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.

So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face.

So I bolted the heads down again....later to find out the Morel lifters with the extra tall body with the link bars cannot be installed with the heads on the car! So off goes the heads again, installed the lifters and retorqued the heads again. Hopefully for the last time! Interesting things I've learned from doing this build...or rebuild

So intake is on, snugged down, doing final retorque tomorrow morning to let the RightStuff set up abit. Hope to have it all assembled and ready to fire open headers tomorrow just to see how the car sounds with the heads/cam. Also to set up the valvetrain, check for leaks, etc before getting the turbos on and dealing with all that.

Making progress...shouldnt be too much longer before I can get everything together and start driving it again

Orr89RocZ · 04-29-2012, 07:43 PM

Motor fired...sounded good for the few seconds I ran it.. Now doing downpipes to finish the exhaust as open header is WAY to loud.

Rough layout is done. Need to start drivers side. I was able to use my old downpipes and just run new pipe to connect to them

gbayfisher · 04-29-2012, 09:28 PM

Thats quite the feat thus far, good work and looking forward to see the end result. You think it'll get finished for this summer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ

Motor fired...sounded good for the few seconds I ran it.. Now doing downpipes to finish the exhaust as open header is WAY to loud.

Rough layout is done. Need to start drivers side. I was able to use my old downpipes and just run new pipe to connect to them

1989GTATransAm · 04-29-2012, 10:14 PM

"I was able to use my old downpipes and just run new pipe to connect to them"

That will save some time and money.

customblackbird · 04-29-2012, 11:30 PM

I Love how the turbo setup is run in the engine bay. looks mean. Get it done! Looks good man

Orr89RocZ · 04-30-2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Thats quite the feat thus far, good work and looking forward to see the end result. You think it'll get finished for this summer?

Oh yeah, it will be up and running within a month. First plan is to run all motor..i'm gonna run thru a empty turbine housing as a bypass pipe.... I want to work the tune that way and get an idea where my powerband will be with the new heads and cam. I'll put it on the dyno since one opened up just few miles from where my car is stored.
Then I'll put the turbos in and start tuning that.

I got a 12 bolt rear coming...bought one off a friend but it has a spool and 3.73 gears. I want to change out to a posi of some sort and 3.08's. So i'll probably run the 10 bolt for now until I can get this 12 bolt rebuilt.

Some minor odds and ends that I want to do to the car but not imperative at this time... just need to get it running again and then I'll do the minor things.

Quote:

That will save some time and money.

I bought enough pipe that if I needed to do new sections, I could...but it does save alot on time thats for sure. I will need to modify the exhaust under the car to hook up to the v-bands on the downpipes since they changed position but not a big deal. I need to tuck things up higher anyway for better clearance.

skinny z · 04-30-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ

Interesting things I've learned from doing this build...or rebuild.

Something we can all say.
Good luck.

skinny z · 04-30-2012, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ

....later to find out the Morel lifters with the extra tall body with the link bars cannot be installed with the heads on the car!

Really? Which model did you get?
Do you know if they are different from the Comp short travel lifters? 15853-16.
I don't recall which block you're using. Is it a tall lifter boss type?
I'm about to drop the coin on a new set of lifters and there's no way I'm interested in pulling the heads.

Orr89RocZ · 04-30-2012, 09:12 PM

Well they are the 4602's which are suppose to be for sbc and high performance lifters..its the only part number i see available thats not limited travel lifter.

My block is a SHP, finished at 9.020" deck...its zero decked with the JE pistons coming in at a taller compression height, and with .041" gasket. I had to unbolt the heads and lift them up slightly to get the lifters in. I've asked Chris Straub who is a dealer and he was surprised to hear that. I've browsed around and saw LT1 guys saying they needed to pull heads too, so it MAY be a oem roller block that has trouble. Are the lifter areas where the dog bones sit taller than non roller blocks? I'm not sure. My block is basically a beefed up version of the oem hyd roller dog bone setup blocks.

They are nice lifters but extremely pricey... I dont think Comp lifters are the same. I think howards and lunati used to sell Morel lifters as their own but not sure anymore.

skinny z · 04-30-2012, 10:22 PM

Seems to me the lifter bosses in an OEM configured block are taller than a conventional Gen 1. That could be the issue.
And yes the Morels are pricey! I've checked out some of Morels distributors and they all sell their own brands (Lunati, Howards) so I suspect they're Morels with different branding. I'd like to know for sure though.
My deadline to place an order is tomorrow due to scheduling restraints on the delivery dates and I've yet to spec a new cam which will have to be custom made, shipped and delivered by the 12th. Lifters ordered at the same time.
Thanks for the info.

Street Lethal · 05-01-2012, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ

Heads I have now originally come with a 68cc chamber. My AFR's were 65, so I wanted to shave these down to 64 to keep 9 to 1. Well that leaves head port abit thin on the base.

So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.

So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face...

I feel your pain, did the same damn thing with my heads, ported too high though...

Orr89RocZ · 05-01-2012, 08:08 AM

Its truely amazing how this stuff snowballs out of control. It started as a simple heads/cam swap. Suppose to reuse everything else in my build. Same turbo manifolds/piping/etc. Then I find the heads need special rockers, which then I notice the valvetrain sits up high due to higher spring install height so I needed taller covers which wont allow my turbo manifolds to work without modifications.

At that point, I figured, hell might as well redo everything the way I really wanted it. Here I am, whole new build, lots of new parts.

TwinTurboROC · 05-01-2012, 04:00 PM

We should have collected stamps instead. I think it would have been a cheaper hobby.

Orr89RocZ · 05-01-2012, 08:33 PM

Got the downpipes finished, now welding them up. Then do the wastegates and hook up the rest of the dual exhaust to the downpipes

always tinkerin · 05-03-2012, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinTurboROC

We should have collected stamps instead. I think it would have been a cheaper hobby.

Yeah! What he said!
Except stamps are less exciting and don't spool well, LOL!

Orr89RocZ · 05-10-2012, 07:50 AM

Downpipes are done and installed, just need to do the wastegate plumbing. Holding off on that for the moment as I plan to start hooking up the rest of the exhaust first to see if I need to move the downpipes at all, or mod them further. I doubt it tho, I should have enough room under there. Right now I'm running thru an empty turbine housing with blockoff plate on the other side so I can run naturally aspirated to dial in the tune and rpm range to see where this setup is gonna pull. Hopefully the old tune is close enough for this setup to make this a quick easy process so I can put the turbos on.

I set base timing yesterday, car wouldnt start with EST disconnected but started right up fairly easily and smoothly to my surprise with full timing in. Luckily for me, the distributor was in at 11 deg base timing and what looked to be 29-30 deg overall which is what I think I have in the bin file for cold start. I didnt have to move a thing but will verify again after I let it heat up. It idled great at about 1000 rpm but only was showing 10-11 inch of vacuum compared to my old 15" so it may need a canister. Cant complain for a 246/252 .640" lift cam and 245cc heads. Its gonna be a beast

I had short video on my phone but I cant get it off the phone. Wont allow me to send it. Says its beyond the file size limit but its only 4.7mb? Oh well...will get update video with the good camera later.

Orr89RocZ · 05-12-2012, 07:18 PM

Short teaser vid.... open pipe idle. Not finished but getting there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7el97r-Tlmg&feature=plcp

TORN · 05-12-2012, 09:20 PM

Sounds good!

1989GTATransAm · 05-12-2012, 09:53 PM

I agree. It sounds pretty good.

Sojer · 05-13-2012, 10:19 AM

I thought this car was done if u don't mine me asking what was changed

Jupiter · 05-13-2012, 10:39 AM

Sounds great! So i take it your changing the hood too?
I can't see in the pics but, did you insulate the break lines coming
off the m/c?

I bet your gladd to be back home and almost done with your
engine mods. Looking good bud. Keep us updated.

Orr89RocZ · 05-13-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sojer

I thought this car was done if u don't mine me asking what was changed

Was done 2 yrs ago and then I changed turbos. Was not happy with its performance so I changed heads cam and ported intake. With the new stuff I was forced to redesign headers and exhaust. So this was a second build

Orr89RocZ · 05-13-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jupiter

Sounds great! So i take it your changing the hood too?
I can't see in the pics but, did you insulate the break lines coming
off the m/c?

I bet your gladd to be back home and almost done with your
engine mods. Looking good bud. Keep us updated.

Most likely gonna buy another harwood 4". I wanted glasstek but dont wanna pay the shipping which I heard can be abit high with those guys. Summit deals harwood and they are only 1.5 hrs from me so I'll just pick it up.

I wanted a 2-3" cowl but dont like harwoods 3" and would have to change things around to fit the intake under the small cowl.