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Hey Kevin, or anyone wlese that know and can help,
I talked to you dad about repinning my truck with a Camaro V8 tuneport computer and then having it reprogrammed but his response was pretty much like last time I asked 6 months ago that he is swamped with other projects. Can you give me any recommendation to anyone that can do this for me? What I have is the truck is comverted to an Eldebrock aftermarket MPFI EFI system (eight injectors) instead of the original 2 injector TB application. Each bank fires at the same time since the system runs off of the original four wires leading to the two original injectors- it plugs into a harness that now feeds all 8 injectors (four on one, four on the other).
I am so sick and tired of the crap Edelbrock has been sending me. I am on my fourth prom in two years and am right now having problems even smogging the truck because the voltage being sent to the MAP sensor is too high. Thomas over ar Toma Smog says he has never seen the CO levels react on his equipment like my truck is producing. It is jumping erratically and staying in the high voltage range yeilding it to run rich. He thinks it has to be in the prom since we have changed and tried 4 different MAP sensors, and replaced the 02 sensor also.
Any help please? I am getting desperate to get this thing in tune and running better. I am about ready to round file the whole system and go back to my original TB injection and Hypertech chip which gave better power for 18 years than I have now with this Edelbrock crap.
I do not mind paying the price to have this work done, I just can not find anyone to do it.
Help....Nobody with any references or recommendations? THere has to be other people out there doing backyard tuning or even professional shops- I just do not know of any even with my connections I am coming up dry.
I hate this new age computer crap- only because I do not know how to program it myself and have to rely on others. If its mechanical, I can fix it.
I even have Edelbrock shaken up enough they are going to some guy back east to try and resolve this issue to get it smogged. I have them real nervous because I have laid out alot of money now trying to get this thing reliable and legal and they sold it advertised as a smog legal conversion. I will most likely be hitting them with a small claims suit next. I am on my fourth prom with them and total cost of sensor repairs, etc in trying to trouble shoot this thing plus failed smog attempts is adding up quick. I am thinking about going to a smog referee and proclaiming my trouble with Edelbrocks ignorance and the fact I have every part under the hood legal and their chip yet it is not passing even with their EO# conversion.
Sounds like an issue with the prom, that may have fried your ecm. Just a guess. Had the ecm tested? Supposedly Autozoo can do that, but I dont know how reliable that is. That kit sounds like a hackjob, proprietary chip/programming to convert a TBI ecm to their MPFI. Scary.
Dont go to the referee. You'll end up tagged as a gross polluter and Edelbrock cant and wont help you there. Thats just a can of worms. The referee solution to failing is put it ALL back to stock. EO just means its been approved but if it fails, the first suspect and first thing they will tell you to do is remove the EO'd parts.
Oh, almost forgot, Edelcrock Sucks!
Last edited by madmax; 05-01-2008 at 10:40 PM.
Reason: Edelcrock sucks
Its a brand spanking new ECM in their also. I figured I would change it since the old one was 19 yrs old. The problem is the same with either ECM in there.
History-
1st prom 2 years ago would not smog- EGR signal turned off.
2nd prom a week later, everthing the smae only they activated the EGR signal- truck ran decent for 2 years ...until..truck dies on the freeway, would start and run very erratic like it was out of fuel.
I replaced both the prom AND the ECM and the truck ran decent only it has been loading up at idle running on the rich side-Thats the current 3rd prom- It now will not smog because the voltage going to the map sensor is too high. THe smog tech and Gordon both tell me they speculate it is faulty prom programing.
Now- I have Edelbrock working on a potential solution trying to get a guy back east that used to do their programing find my file and duplicate my old chip because obviously their new source for chips is not working.
In the mean time- I am ALSO trying to find somebody who can do custom tunning for me so I never have this problem again AND I get my truck running better to its "full potential" rather than a generic "just get it running and pass smog" chip
Gotta love Edlecrock.
Surprised they didnt tell you to pound sand like another guy thatr had problems with their junk.
Like everything else the good parts makers get bought up by the junkers and the only thing left is junk.
Happened to the car industry in the early part of the last century.
Thank you Kevin, but that link is only good back to a lightduty '93 C/K 1500. I have an '89.
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Chris, Thanks for the links. I tried emailing Jprevost- waiting to see if he responds.
Unfortunately for me, I sold all my old crap about 6 months ago to a buddy with a truck simular to mine. I figured I would never use it again SINCE this truck did pass smog when I originaly installed the Edelbrock MPFI 2 years ago.
When you say EBL, I assume you mean the original prom and TBI?
Last edited by Vetruck; 05-02-2008 at 11:57 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Yes, its the original prom and TBI with a different program on there, with some of the code issues fixed that GM was nice enough to leave in there. I dont know too much about it except people that have changed are extremely happy.
Sounds like those injectors you got with the kit might be junk. Kind of fits your story too.
Well, Edelbrock came through today and had the guy back east contact me about my problem. He asked me a few questions on a confrerence call and said he would get right on it and promised he'd have a prom burned and in the mail 2day air to me today.
Hopefully, that will just at least get me through smog.
Then, I do have two different sources that both geave me about the same quote on putting a 7730 ECU into my truck and repinn it, then program it to run to my specs. Found out from one of them who is very familiar with Edelbrocks crap that the castings on the Edelbrock stuff routes the EGR BACKWARDS and causes minor but inherent vacuum issues. Lovely. He told me he actually machined a plate mount under one once to re-reverse the flow to the proper direction.
Anyways, both parties stated it is highly illegal to do this but will do it on the side. since they know people I do and know I am not the feds.
One shop is local and is well known for Turbo and TBI applications- No names though.
Update... After the truck being at Turbo City for two days and still failing the smog sniffer, Edelbrock is going to do one final hurrah and have me bring it down to Torrance to thier own dyno where they are going to bring in house a specialist to work with their own techs and see what they can do to get this thing not only smogged, but running good- Otherwise, I have demanded they completely compensate me for "ALL" my expenses and I am going back to TBI setup.
They are going to have a rental car waiting for me Monday.
It is unfortunate that you have to deal with Edelbrock, but since they sold this stuff as being smog legal for light trucks, you have them by the short hairs. If they can't get it to pass smog, and don't want to refund your money so you can go back to stock, I think you are in position to get them investigated by the EPA. Just think "Steve Saleen," fined a few million by the feds for falsifying smog tests on his new Saleen Mustangs.
Yep, So true Russ. And they know I know that. I told them I am approx $3200 into this mess and I have a $50,000 truck I can not use right now because of their misleadings.
I also told them straight up that I will be putting "Edelbrock Sucks" on the side of my racecar and advertising it to 8000 fans at Toyota Speedway- as well as small claims court. I advised them that this problem is not going away and they are just fortunate that I have yet to be cited for expired tags.
They called me today verifying that I had long reach plugs in my Vortec heads- I responded by saying "just get your damn computer guy ready and don't insult me again."
That is SO typical of them. Their first and next responses are always "Its not us!" Thats the same type of dumb response I got from them when I called about a totally miscast and mismachined manifold I bought that had their worthless name on it... my block was "machined improperly." I guess they need to take that up with GM then, because the factory manifold fit fine and the block had never been machined since it was built in 1985.
I dont know that many people that buy aftermarket parts but I know of 3 intakes that were sent back to Edlecrock because they were machined wrong.
Someone must have had an off day on the CNC machine.
"Edelbrock uses the finest equipment for machining and quality control. With over 55 CNC machines and hundreds of dedicated men and women, the Edelbrock facilities have earned the world recognized ISO 9001 certifications for quality. Our Coordinate Measuring Machines (CMM) in the Edelbrock Quality Control department check all machined products. Edelbrock exhaust products are fabricated from high quality pieces that are bent, cut and welded using the latest precision equipment."
No word from Dean. I thought we would hear something by now.
Allen, Its going into Edelbrock on Monday. They are going to have a rental car waiting for me to trash on.
ps- we are racing this Saturday night. 5th of 27 right now in points and coming strong. I donbated my old surfboard to a marketing sckeem I thought up and will be promoting it for a few races and then a free giveaway to boost fan base and attendance.
I am building the makeshift racecar surfboard rack as we speak.
To quote Tom, quoting Kelly's Heroes, "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves."
Hey, all I'm saying is it's possible that a bad batch left the factory. Now, should they have told Chris to return his manifold and they would give him a new one, rather than telling him he must have machined his block — you bet. Sounds like they need to improve their customer service.
The other point I was trying to make is that that QC statement is a pretty bold thing to publish if they intend it as nothing but BS.
You guys have never dealt with corporate lawyers. In my line of work, you should see some of the silly things a client's legal dept. will mandate in order to be sure their bases are covered.
They are scratching their heads. After having it for a day, they sumised that "the data logging looks good and the fuel tables are in tact' so I responded on the phone to him to run it down to his smog guy and get it passed for me.
He got real quiet.
I drive there...
So I said, what now
He was still quiet and said that logically it should be passing.
I said "its not, so what are you going to do now"
He asked, what do you want us to do.
I replaied, "It pisses me off that I have to be the one to ask, give me a check for $3200 and I go away."
Wagner responds," I am not authorized to do that" so I say "Why the **** am I dealing with you then, get you boss out here right now"
He says he is the boss of his deptment and the one that authorises claims and warrenties will be back Wednesday (today) and he doesn't think they will cut me a check for that amount.
Dean,"then I am going straight to the courthouse and filing small claims" I had my folder in my hand and patted it.
he then offered the suggestion of a partial parts exchange so I laid out my offer of 200cc E-tec heads, The Gm TBI Vortec manifold they make for GM, and a check for $1000. You have till Noon on Thursday to accept my FINAL offer , I repeat my final offer, I am done playing games with your ***.
Wagnor is suppose to get back to me by tonight via his promise.
To quote Tom, quoting Kelly's Heroes, "Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves."
Hey, all I'm saying is it's possible that a bad batch left the factory. Now, should they have told Chris to return his manifold and they would give him a new one, rather than telling him he must have machined his block — you bet. Sounds like they need to improve their customer service.
The other point I was trying to make is that that QC statement is a pretty bold thing to publish if they intend it as nothing but BS.
You guys have never dealt with corporate lawyers. In my line of work, you should see some of the silly things a client's legal dept. will mandate in order to be sure their bases are covered.
Actually they told me their manifold was fine (after I told them exactly what was wrong) and that my factory block and heads were machined wrong. They also refused to look at it, or exchange it for me... even in person at their location. So I sent it back to Summit. Guess who I will not be buying products from anymore?
They're pretty useless. Another worthless tech on the phone told me all their water pump bearings are 'quality made in the USA Pioneer brand bearings." That explains the foreign country name stamped on the shaft... and I still have that POS to prove it.
you should see some of the silly things a client's legal dept. will mandate in order to be sure their bases are covered
Bret
Would not surprise me at all.
I had a guy send me a contract (~$6.00 in postage) for a $4K job. The last ~20 pages were 17 items/page "attached hereto for reference only". No explanation at all as to what they were.
I round filed the contract and sent him a email "I am sure there is some hungry sole out here that will sign that but Im not that stupid."
And many of the national corps contracts, 4+pages, require I give up some of my legal rights, such as "not suing them for payment until they have been paid". F that.
Needless to say there are a lot people in my profession that will sign anything to get the job.
