ringo234

only problem with Modot is you have to live in Missouri (not that there is anything wrong with that).

BretD 88GTA

Made another trip to the smog shop today. A new air diverter, minor adjustment to the timing, some fresh 91 octane and a few ounces of Sea Foam in the tank — I passed!

New numbers @ 15mph/25mph:
HC: 18/8
CO: 0.00/0.00
NOx: 535/195


The smog tech asked me what repairs I made since the last test. I told him I changed the air diverter. He right away didn't think that would affect anything, but said he'd test it if that's what I want.

I said test it and let's see what happens. Either way it will give me info. to work with. He says OK, but this is the last $20 re-test. I said I'm fine with that.

He ran the car, came back in the office and said "You did it. It passed. What repair did you do again?" I repeated "changed the air diverter" and explained what my diagnostics were showing and what my reference books said.

He says "Your research paid off. The car did good this time."

Renew the registration and the GTA is officially ready to hit the road again.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Good news Bret. With our older cars it is always good news when we pass smog.

BretD 88GTA

Thanks Alan. Now I can start thinking about finally installing my set of Don's headers.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

With a 25 year old Formula, "historical" status sounds good. But that link is from 2002, when all 30+ year old vehicles were smog exempt, and most would've been considered historic anyway. But if there was a provision that referenced "Historical Vehicles" as being smog exempt, I don't see it now.

Looking at the DMV's website today, VC Section 5004, "Vehicles of Historical Value," verifies the requirements as: manufactured after 1922, at least 25 years old, and is of historical interest. "Of historical interest" seems to be the subjective disclaimer, but Camaros and Firebirds shouldn't have any issues because the names are synonymous with automotive history and collectibility. The Firebird, literally, IS history, existing now only as a part of automotive history. That, alone, should define the Firebird as a "Vehicle of Historical Value."

It further states that a 25+ year old vehicle is "historical" if you're a "collector or hobbyist"(hobbyist covering everyone), "principally for the purposes of exhibition or historic vehicle club activities." And with thirdgens already dating back 30 years, your club is "historic," and you do "exhibit" your cars at "club activities."

So the code defines a "Vehicle of Historical Value," and it describes the license plates and licensing fees. But it doesn't address any benefits or restrictions, and there's no mention of a "Vehicle of Historical Value" being smog exempt; they're not on the list of smog exempt vehicles, and I've found nothing anywhere else to say they're exempt.

So unless there's an obscure code that only a few people are aware of and can find, "Vehicles of Historical Value" produced after 1975 are no more smog exempt than any other vehicle produced after 1975: they're NOT smog exempt. I hope someone can show proof to the contrary.

BretD 88GTA

You are correct that there's NO smog exemption for historical vehicle status.

In digging around, I did find a Ferrari club message board that was discussing this same topic at one point. It seems a couple of their members acquired historical plates for their late 70's era cars and they mentioned that they were no longing getting smog notifications on their registration renewals.

What seems to be the loop hole (emphasis on seems), is that under historical vehicle status one of the requirements is that the vehicle is driven no more than 2,500 miles per year.

With the low mileage requirement, it appears the DMV is not enforcing the bi-annual smog check.

It's worth mentioning that one of the posts did mention keeping this loophole a secret, because – "we don't want a bunch of guys with Camaros and Mustangs lining up for historical plates and blow it for everyone."

pvr007

iTrader: (1)

Ill just export my car to mexico... I have dual nationality.. So if i get pulled over ill flash out my mexican license

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

In VC Section 5004 "Vehicles of Historical Value," there's no numerical value placed on mileage, just limits for types of usage: "may be driven in historical exhibitions, parades, or historic club activities." Nothing says the vehicle can be smog exempt.

In Special License Plates, App REG 17A, no numerical mileage limits are stated either, again, just limits for types of usage: "may be driven in historical exhibitions, parades, or historic club activites only." Again, nothing says the vehicle can be smog exempt.

In 12.090 "Historic Value Vehicles" there's a little more detail, but again, no numerical value placed on mileage, just limits for types of usage: "limited to operation or movement over the highway primarily for the purpose of historical exhibition or other similar, noncommercial purposes, such as parades or historic vehicle club activities." Also again, nothing says the vehicle can be smog exempt.

I saw the statement about the "secret" loophole, but that was in 2002, and a lot of the smog laws have been rewritten since then. I can see where common sense would tell you the vehicle will see very limited use, but I just don't see anything written that even hints toward a loophole for granting a smog exemption based on that. And if we're relying on amiguities, there would have to be contradicting statements on the issue. But it all seems very black-and-white, with the DMV appearing to have its bases covered against something like that.

My car is 25, and I'm ready to do this. But I'm not walking into the DMV unarmed, guessing or hoping, without evidenciary proof to defend a smog exemption request. Even if it is written somewhere, if I can't cite it, the DMV will probably deny it. So I guess I'll just keep researching.

EDIT: And I've done more research already, and it appears that California did, indeed, cover all bases when the laws were rewritten in 2005, and all previous loopholes and exemptions were closed. So at this time, there are absolutely NO smog exemptions for any gasoline powered vehicles newer than 1975, doesn't matter how "historical," doesn't matter how little it's driven(except PNO, of course). But if someone comes on here and posts otherwise, based on his own personal experience, not from something he heard from someone else, then I might believe an exemption for historic vehicles exists.

BretD 88GTA

Yeah, there's nothing I can find that says historical plates = smog exempt. Even with historical vehicle status, you have still to maintain the factory smog equipment on the car.

The Ferrari message board thread I found is from last year - 2011. There's 2 or 3 guys swearing that once they got their HV plates, the smog notices stopped. Whether that's actually true or not is anybody's guess.

The only thing I could see possibly happening is maybe some kind of computer error when the registration renewals are being sent. Stranger things have happened. We used to have a guy in the SC3GFB club with a 1983 Daytona Edition TA. Somehow the DMV had his registration info. as being 1908.

Here's a link to the Ferrari thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...=310576&page=4

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

That Ferrari forum thread link was good reading, Bret, thanks for post it. The future might look bright after all.

I just read through every post in it, and not one link posted by any of the members verifies smog exemption, even though each time someone posted a link, they said: "it's right here." But it's not right there! Other members in that forum keep posting that they're not seeing it either. Duh, that's because it's not there, not anywhere! These guys are on crack lol.

Ironically though, they claim they're getting exemptions for being historic. Go figure! One guy checked it out first, through a friend at the DMV, and it turned out to be true: exempt. And he just got his exemption as recently as last month.

Anyone know anyone who works for the DMV?

One guy posted a link to 3 code sections(which I had read earlier, yet they don't have anything to do with smog), and those sections say that historic vehicles must have mirrors, muffler and fenders. And according to him, that's the loophole right there. That's ALL that's required of an historic vehicle. It is not required to meet any other regulations or restrictions, which apparently includes smog testing because that's a restriction, not one that's required to be met. If that's the case, it's pretty loose lol.

One possible requirement to qualify as "documentation" for "certification" might be having classic car insurance. I'm not sure about this, but that seems to be what I'm getting from some of these guys' posts.

Apparently the annual registration fees go toward an environmental fund. So historic car "collectors"(us) are giving the state minimal use, therefore minimizing pollution, and we're also helping to provide funds for environment issues. So in return, the state is waiving smog testing, seeing itself as winning all the way around. Hey, I'm fine with that!

But everyone seems to all be in agreement that this is very subjective within the DMV, and you could have a fight on your hands. So this might be working only because the DMV, itself, doesn't seem to understand it either.

I have a headache.

EDIT: However, an historic vehicle is still required to meet federal restrictions regarding equipment, per its model year. So even though you won't have to pass an emissions test, if you're pulled over and inspected, the officer better find what he's looking for, which would probably just be a catalytic converter.

injdinjn

With the new rules passed last week by CARB and moonbeams statement that "Cap and Trade" will pay for the bullet train to nowhere expect to see a tightening of the rules to get old cars replaced with electric.

Now if we only had the power plants in place to charge all those electric cars on a August day.

1 DwnCam

This is good stuff.

ZexGX

Mine didn't get smog checked at the Ref, I had to take it to a smog shop to get it smogged after the inspection and certification. The inspection they did was of the overall engine, OBD-II system, PCM, PCV, AIS (aka AIR), various emissions solenoids, CATs (used stock F-body ones) serial/part numbers, and that's it (they used a GM Tech-II scanner, and mirrors to check part numbers). He asked if I replaced the EVAP system with the one from the donor car (since it's in the gas tank on 4th gens) and I said yes. I had the bone stock (for the donor car year) exhaust on it at the time... He told me I should throw a nice true dual catback on it. lol.

I read that starting Jan 1st 2013 if you get a motor from a 2000 or newer vehicle, you won't even need to do the sniffer any more, just the OBD-II check.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

That's Actually good news !

Amy track times with the new motor ? See u at the meet.

o2sscamaro

Smog it's not a big deal in Los Angeles, just go to some smog shops in the ghetto and they will pass it for about 150. Never have done a legit smog check in my cars.

o2sscamaro

Talked to my guy today and can pass any car. Just need your registration and miles. Will fax your certificate.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I just received a phone call from a co-worker about a worker at work. This guy just paid $5500 to get his Prius smog. 2 Cats cost $3000 and the batteries $2500 and can only be done at the Toyota dealer. What a rip off to own that crap!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Oh my! $5500 is a ton of money. Good Grief! I stay far away from the so called "green" cars such as those. There are plenty of other models that get pretty good gas milage.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Thank you for continuing the stereotype that car guys are a bunch of illegal polluting rednecks who dont care about the environment or other people.

Attitudes like this are what cause the smog laws to get tougher and tougher as they close all these loopholes. There's a new statute I heard from my smog guy, that if you get caught with illegal modifications on your car, they go back to where you got your last smog check and investigate that guy. They dont care that you might have made these illegal mods after getting smogged, the tech is still in trouble.

injdinjn

o2sscamaro - That's not the kind of info you post on a public board. There are smog ****'s and greenies that read these boards just to find statements like that. A member of CARB is a member of turbobuick.org.

Vincent & Allen - $5500 that's why they call them green cars. And personally I think anyone who bought into that Prius crap deserves that and more. Sometime google where they make those batteries in Canada - looks like Chernobyl.

Guest

These newer cars are barely putting out any emissions. I know that from my 04 Malibu. The performance of Hybrid is coming. Check out the 2013 Acura Nsx, all wheel drive putting out 400 hp. These third gens are now becoming a thing of the pass. You gotta step up in todays world if you wanna play with the big girls an boys.

http://www.acura.com/future/NSX?from=fb#6

TTA579

I'm doing everything I can to be sure my car passes smog. On the other hand, I wish CARB had a little more sense.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"I'm doing everything I can to be sure my car passes smog. On the other hand, I wish CARB had a little more sense."

I think CARB and the people above them who we keep electing to office have an ulterior motive.

injdinjn

Forcing older cars off the road creates more revenue for the State, sales tax and higher registration fees.

The CA Cap & Trade law will generate billions every year for the State, until all the business leave and the unemployed leave behind their homes to find work in a sensible State.

I wonder when the day will come when only govt employees are left and they have to give 100% of their checks back to the State in taxes.

Guest

Every one that has mentioned there smog numbers is like chinese. Mine and Julie smog results are the only test that we can clearly understand.

Now for a 04 malibu the smog requirements are much stricter than our 3rdgens.
I tried to get why, and info regards to this from my smog tech but he could not tell me. Now from 2004-2007 for our 3rdgens the smog requirements have not changed, The smog tech said there getting stricter every year though. He could not give me any info on the 3rdgen regards to say just rumors in a better way of the 2012 smog requirements. So if your stating your smog results please state it like I have and Julie please. And the title of this post was very negative Im not saying who it is nor I care. But a Good Luck Passing Smog is not very polite.

Now for the dual cats where are you all getting your new obd2 dual converters. The installers are going by the vin and what they come with. What are an where are you getting your 2.5" cats because the dual cats are a 2.25". They say it's not a problem maybe they expand the cat to fit Im unsure with the 2.5" Y pipe. The best price I have found is Plaza Mufflers and there qoute is 245.00 usd.

85gulstrandTA

Four things come to mind in reading...most every post here. Just points of interest.

1) If your car fails smog, and the repairs are more than a (?)percentage of it's valve. then take the estimate of the repairs to the dmv and you will be able to complete the registration. Now I'm unclear on the details and hear this only applies 2 times in a row. That would be 4 yrs worth...on bi annual test.

2) A little off topic...but will save you cash. If you have back fees due on a car that is 25 yrs or older you can get out of paying them....now that I have your attention.
Tell dmv you want to register it as a classic and late fees will no longer be due. Now on this one you may have to speak to a superviser as some clerk may not know this. this alone would have saved me thousands over the years if I had known this. a side note is a guy or a freind selling his car because it is not worth the late fees. you can advise them or buy it and make it current.

3) Many think that becuase they have a 75 or older car/truck they can do anything they want. I have seen ads on older car stating "put any motor in it you want" this is far from true and please "beware"

4) Fuel and smog test. I've heard E85, ethanol,methanol burn super clean.
It seams to me the higher octane fuel will burn slower than lower octane fuel ie 87vs89vs91. so would lower octane be better for a complete burn on a smog test?

ok one more new cars do not need smog for 5 years.

ok ok one more how green is a car run on batteries when everything around the place the batteries are made is a vacant waste land...and toxic dump

just a few thoughts...hope it helps.
If anyone can clearify for me and others, please do.

90IROC1

iTrader: (4)

Go to pepboys and get some cataclean it's really supposed to clean out the engine and cats. Look it up on youtube.

Guest

Most of our cars are not stock so we dont qualify for the state repair.
None of us are not that far behind in registration, ppl put them on non op under modifications etc. A must to do thing when your car is parked an the tags are due.

Not sure if our cars can even run on e85. And where is the fuel? There is only a few in the state.

Higher octane does not always result in a better way to pass smog. You use what your car has been tuned to use.

85gulstrandTA

We used water in a spray bottle to raise temps and clean the engine of carbon. The first time I did it I was thinking "is this ok to do" but a trusted friend showed me you can put alot of water in a motor and it still runs fine. I would get a large spray bottle 16-24oz and get a nice even spray going till the bottle was empty, just get a fast idle going and easy does it. the cost is just a good spray bottle and the cardon will be cleaned up.This may help clean the cat too.

I have used sea foam before, now if I was in this situation again, I would do the water first then the sea foam. Putting the sea form in the tank first, then water spray, then sea foam the motor.

jrfidencio

iTrader: (1)

its time to get those tree huggers out of cali!!!!!!!!! all they want is to get rid of all the nice cars and have us stuck with hybrids. fml

keeslinger31

^^ lol ya i don't have egr cats or air pump. I bet it still runs pretty clean considering the smell.

ZZ3 Z28

Every time I read a post here about Cali smog I'm glad I don't live there. Illinois isn't such a great place either but at least I don't have emissions any more on my '86. I really feel sorry for you guys.

Burnout91

I hope you don't feel sorry for me....dig the sig...and the car passes the feared smog test just as easily as it would pass your car

Seriously, all of the baddazzz cars on this board, the TPI's, the alternative intake cars, the LT / LS swaps, etc., all of the cars that are built 'right' are getting certified, and I believe they are getting certified 'above-board' for the most part. You don't hear the owners of these cars moaning about emissions tests.

Seems it is the more run-of-the-mill (but still cherished and loved) ThirdGens whose owners are afraid of emissions testing, can't get their car to pass, go to a 'ghetto' smog shop and pay 3x what I pay, or move to / register their car in a test-free county / state.

If my car passes, well, you get it.

ZZ3 Z28

Thanks...good to know.

injdinjn

It's not so much the tree huggers but the State looking for money - sales tax and higher registration fees.

E-85. Not good for our cars, SEMA is saying it's bad for any pre 2001 vehicle. Ethanol = a form of alcohol which eats rubber; hoses, seals in injectors, etc.

Time to defund govt.

Guest

I have paid my dues for this State. In one year I have paid nearly 1,500 to the State. And I still have to get my Taxes prepped oh it's going to be very bad my wife and I are going to owe big time. How much do these suckers want now.

Injdinjn No putting you down for your Tittle but your right your only speaking the truth. But come on this cant be that bad.

TTA579

Passed smog in LA county (15mph/25mph): HC 80/43, CO 0.03/0, NO 0/0

Now I need tires.

Guest

Next month Im getting my new cats and smoging my Z.. I seen the other day a Mustang and 2012 Camaro and the Camaro took the mustang by a car length.. Oh do I want to take care of some business. This is the first time I have seen a new Camaro using it's performance on the street.

Guest

Your smog is probably different than the 350's?

TTA579

Indeed, my maximums are HC: 80/62, CO 0.52/0.42, NO 549/507.

If anyone wants to complain about emissions requirements, they can cry me a river.

Also, don't know where you plan on getting your new cats, but I had mine replaced for $200. Lowered my HC count enough to pass as my old cat was damaged by the previous owner.

Guest

Im a dual cat converter with a 2.5 Y pipe. Im getting both replaced for 245.00, years ago the prices were 500.00 when they made the california cat. I ruined my brand new cats with 115 octane. I was close to passing the Hc but I was so close. I since then had the car re tuned and it probably pass now but Im going the convertor way.

Guest

I got a letter from Nissan for 4,000 to retire my Iroc, Dream on Nissan and your trash can.

TTA579

If someone wants my car, they better be offering me enough to replace it with a new equivalent. $4k would be a joke.

Guest

Kevin in the future there probably wont even have Test Only stations. And for the reason you don't like, that's why they will be changing. Life has to be tough first before it gets better. And the strict test only stations have cameras all over. I would not even be concerned with what people have to say. At least the smog test are better than having a newer car. And in most of your cases with illegal intake mods your smog guy would be the one getting in trouble. Sometimes play it smarter don't say anything let life go as it is.

Guest

Yeah no kidding. A Vette or something better.

Diggler86

Just barely passed {wipes brow}.. the max are same as 2010, but my car did have worse values this time.

1BADDAM

E85 worked great for me last time. Good thing is there won't be a next time