Okay, so Moog's got two... K6145 - ball joint K6145T - ball joint, improved design. A while ago, Jza said that K6145 is the "heavy duty light truck" design. The Moog online catalog spec's it for our control arms. Is there a benefit to either? Whats so improved about the design? And even more curious; Summit Racing sells K6145 for $24.39 - and the "improved design" K6145T for $20.39! Wouldn't the improved version cost more? Thanks! I'd like to order some of this stuff up tomorrow. Either way, I can't believe I can buy a balljoint for under $25.

Tom, I can't say what the improved design is, but I'm using the K6145's and they are working great. I have had no problems from them at all. Try searching through the archives, I kinda remember a thread a while back about the K6145T's.

I don't know how much this helps but I recall two design changes/improvments that Moog was making to their ball joints:

a) To reduce the use of plastics and increase the use of metal (bronze). This was for the ball joints of SUVs and light trucks. The goal was a longer lasting ball joint.

b) To reduce the initial (as new installed) effort required to move the joint as the vehicle was steered. (Apparently too many soccer moms complaining or something).

I did a search for this info and couldn't find much. Car Quest's site did have some info on the greater use of metal.

As an aside, I recently (well, about a year ago), opened up a 1st gen pitman arm (has a rotary joint in it) and was surprised to find a plastic bushing. This is on an OEM GM piece. So all that was worn out was a piece of plastic. Hmm, an oilite bronze bushing and I'll have a better then new pitman arm (and ~ $90 more in my wallet).

RBob.

Yeah; that's the bummer, aklaim, I did a search, and all I found was Jza's message. Someone else said they used the K6145T with no problems.

And what Jza said matches what you said, RBob... the mention of light trucks. I don't really have any complaints about the current GM balljoints (mileage is 246,700 on them), but maybe I'll go after the 6145T's. Maybe Summit goofed with their pricing. I'll go check some of the online sites and see what their price difference is.

Although- I guess our cars are heavier than a light truck would be. I guess I can't go wrong with the original K6145 design... decisions, decisions.

RBob, can a regular Pitman arm (like our f-body's) wear out?

Not the 3rd gen pitmans, no joint (interesting that it is also the same pitman arm used on '78-'87 ElCaminos). The 3rd gen center link has two joints and is a wear item. The 3rd gen idler has one joint and is a wear item.

The 1st gen center link has no joints and is a non-wear item. The 1st gen pitman arm has one joint and the idler arm has two joints, both are wear items.

RBob.

I used the improved version with 0 problems...

On a related topic (improved design)...I called up Autozone and they carry Perfect Circle steering components for half the price of Moog with a lifetime warranty.

Normally, I have used Moog in the past, but at close to half the price, is Perfect Circle THAT cheap of a part?

Anyone have experience?

Pepboys sales Perfect Circle too. I believe they are manufactured by the Dana Corporation. I dunno, I could be wrong about that. I believe Moog is a better piece but for normal use there's nothing wrong with them.

I used the standard K6145 on my rebuild, didn't know what the improved design thing was. Mine are great.

Ed, adding to confusion