Suspension / ChassisQuestions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?
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Originally posted by camaro_junkie I don't see any reference above to two adjusters. I'm fairly certain there is just the one adjuster on the top for adjusting the lash.
It's on the outside, the spanner wrench is used on the input shaft of the steering box. You'll notice there is a HUGE hex sided lock nut. That needs to be loosened and then behind that is the lash adjustment which needs the spanner wrench. Don't do this adjustment without indexing the original position AND having a torque wrench. I could give you a better description but just look in any Chiltons manual and they'll explain the process.
im using a flaming river steering shaft, it gets rid of the crappy rag joint and it looks pimp. and yup it goes to the factory steering box and column.
Originally posted by 84 1LE Arent those U-joints like $60 something apiece? Not including the price of the shaft.
yup, that shaft is actually for 79-93 mustangs with power rack, mustangs use the same splines for the input shaft and the same coupling for the column, however i had to purchase the extra DD shaft so i can cut it to the right length. it cost me a little under 200 bux. its billet steel so its heavy duty and it looks awesome.
i was going to use it for my power rack setup but im going to stick with teh stock style steering, it works for either.
Does it collapse.Also the astro van BIG u-joint has a built in vibration dampner.Thats what that big section in front of the U-joint is(i think its filled with rubber or ?)
Originally posted by 84 1LE Does it collapse.Also the astro van BIG u-joint has a built in vibration dampner.Thats what that big section in front of the U-joint is(i think its filled with rubber or ?)
Originally posted by SLP IROC-Z nah it doesnt collapse.
I didn't look like it would.
Looks nice but I'd want a collapse in anything I drive.
The astro van unit is rather nice but the piecing together and disassembly is rather annoying. It isn't as easy as some member think .
yeah, im not really worried about having it collapsable. i suppose it could be made to. some people think its nuts to spend that much on a steering shaft but ull have to see my car when its done to understand the extent of detail that im putting into it.
Originally posted by JPrevost I didn't look like it would.
Looks nice but I'd want a collapse in anything I drive.
The astro van unit is rather nice but the piecing together and disassembly is rather annoying. It isn't as easy as some member think .
My first try at this astro van U-joint deal took about 3 hours.The second on took a little less.I still have the first one i made.Best thing about it.It cost me $6 from the pick-your-part.I priced the flaming river stuff,but Im too cheap to spend $200+ on that & i still wouldnt have the collapseable shaft or the vibration dampning.
Originally posted by SLP IROC-Z yeah, im not really worried about having it collapsable. i suppose it could be made to. some people think its nuts to spend that much on a steering shaft but ull have to see my car when its done to understand the extent of detail that im putting into it.
I like the shaft and do think its well worth the money for the control factor- as for colasping, I would not worry about it. The amount of impact it would take to stuff that culumn into your nose, the occupant would be dead before then anyways.
SLP- One request PLEASE- Could you take down the intrusive picture in your siginture, It really gets annoying seeing it after every post and the threads take longer and longer to load. Thank you.
Originally posted by vsixtoy I like the shaft and do think its well worth the money for the control factor- as for colasping, I would not worry about it. The amount of impact it would take to stuff that culumn into your nose, the occupant would be dead before then anyways.
SLP- One request PLEASE- Could you take down the intrusive picture in your siginture, It really gets annoying seeing it after every post and the threads take longer and longer to load. Thank you.
i feel the same way about teh collapsing issue, it would take an extremely hard impact.
If memory serves me right.The 4th gen steering shafts i had didnt collapse.Dont know however if that isnt incorporated in another part of the steering system?
hmm, i dunno, i doubt the steering column is collapsable, they use the same columns as our cars dont they? or atleast the same style.
id like to find an aluminum power steering box that has a comparable ratio to the "z" box that came stock, anyone know of one? ive looked online but only come up with vega style boxes that are manual.
Nope completely different.Thats where i got the idea for the U-joint set-up.4th gens use U-joints on both ends of the steering shaft.They are different than astros,but about the same length.Both are shorter than 3rd gens.My set-up uses 4th gens steering column coupler with the astros U-joints & the stock 3rd gen shaft.basically!!!
It's on the outside, the spanner wrench is used on the input shaft of the steering box. You'll notice there is a HUGE hex sided lock nut. That needs to be loosened and then behind that is the lash adjustment which needs the spanner wrench. Don't do this adjustment without indexing the original position AND having a torque wrench. I could give you a better description but just look in any Chiltons manual and they'll explain the process.
Umm I'm gonna need a better discription of this. I need a Chiltons Manual! I see the BIG hex nut which is about the size of the casting of the box. And whats a spanner wrench?
I guess some people value their lives more than others.
Not that I'm going to change anybody's mind but GM doesn't do things that cost them money. Adding a collapsing steering shaft costs more and I have a feeling that if GM could have gotten rid of it they would have.
If the accident is bad I'd still like to have 1% more chance of living than not... that's just my
These van shafts are awesome. Full needle bearing u-joints and litterally zero lash. The stock unit is also very tight but the rag joint kills the feel for the road.
I know I'm repeating myself but it would be really nice if there was a shaft that had splines and was the right length.
i was under the impression GM made the shaft collapsable so it was easy to take in and out. if it was solid like mine then ud have to unbolt the column or steering box to remove it.
JPrevost--If you give up on this & you want.Send me all the parts .Ill make it for you.If you pay shipping both ways & a little for me too..Your right though the feel with the U-joints is much better & smooth too.The bearing for the tube out of the firewall helps too.
Originally posted by SLP IROC-Z i was under the impression GM made the shaft collapsable so it was easy to take in and out. if it was solid like mine then ud have to unbolt the column or steering box to remove it.
That makes it easier to remove,but the main reason is safety.If the column doesnt collapse or give it could act like a solid rod & shove the steering wheel into the drivers face or worse.
That telescoping part of the shaft only "colapses" 2" at most. Last I checked the wheel was about 2 feet from my face. I just am not buying the idea of safety. That tilt assembly on the column will bust away far faster than any telescoping feature when you are hanging onto it on impact. Ever broken a GM tilt assembly- I have broken many just from hard driving. And I'm not talking just the screws looseing, I'm talking busting the entire aluminum column.
84 1LE, Where are you in So Cal? And is that your rod in the avatar? I know I've seen that Camaro before.
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/32202/
Just a good read.
As for the only 2" collapsing, that's actually more important than you're giving it credit.
When you get into an accident the last thing you want is the steering column busting off the firewall and where is your head when you get into an accident? It's usually inchs away from the steering wheel if not hitting it. The air bags do a great job so if you've got one, then I might see where you have a point. Or if you always use a 4 or more point harness.
Also by having a few inchs of collapse it gives the box enough movement to go to either side of the steering column axis. This will effectively reduse the hammer or "impact" force on the column itself and allow for it to fold over.
It was designed for safety even if you don't believe it works.
It just makes sence to keep it if it's there, especially if it effects your safety. The same thing can be said about scatter shields on transmissions. If GM designed a car to use a scatter shield don't you think it might be because they believe it necessary?
Originally posted by 84 1LE JPrevost--If you give up on this & you want.Send me all the parts .Ill make it for you.If you pay shipping both ways & a little for me too..Your right though the feel with the U-joints is much better & smooth too.The bearing for the tube out of the firewall helps too.
Thanks for the offer but I'm almost done. I just need to get it welded and then I'm going to have it beed blasted and painted. I've got an extra astro van shaft sitting here that I might take apart and clean up. I'll sell it for what I paid for it, $15 plus shipping to anybody interested.
84 1LE, I bet you could make a bunch and sell them here with a disclaimer. I really like this shaft idea, works better than expected and I'm LOVIN the damper that's built in! Very cool from an engineering stand point.
Originally posted by vsixtoy That telescoping part of the shaft only "colapses" 2" at most. Last I checked the wheel was about 2 feet from my face. I just am not buying the idea of safety. That tilt assembly on the column will bust away far faster than any telescoping feature when you are hanging onto it on impact. Ever broken a GM tilt assembly- I have broken many just from hard driving. And I'm not talking just the screws looseing, I'm talking busting the entire aluminum column.
84 1LE, Where are you in So Cal? And is that your rod in the avatar? I know I've seen that Camaro before.
But when was the last( or first for that matter) time you busted the steering shaft,Not so easy.The tilt assembly will shatter if that STEEL steering shaft doesnt give(collapse).Possibly allowing it to go right into your passenger compartment.Right thru that PLASTIC horn button.Just as JPrevost said your face is usually only inches away from the steering wheel.Ill admit the chances are pretty slim,but all it takes is one lawsuit.....As for me.Im located in tustin.You might have seen my car(the 84),but the one in the avatar is a 1:18 scale diecast from muscle machines.........JP,Im way ahead of you on selling theseeven on ebay.I gathered a few of those astro units & some 3rd gen too,but the 4th gen piece is harder to find.I would definately have to put a disclaimer if a ever decided to sell these.Making them though(just me) would be a slower process.
Just like the article reads, the more joints in the column, the more the steering shaft will colapse on itself and fold. That tilt mechanism is in fact a joint and will colapse- that is my point. Now you also have two more joint down lower.
Originally posted by camaro_junkie This thread has a load of good information on the steering shaft. Perhaps it should become a sticky or something.
I've got a 4th gen rack on the way, which when ti shows up i'm gonna bring the shaft over Joe's (SLP) house and see how it lines up with the mustang rack on his car. Hopefully in about 3 weeks I'll have his setup on my car.
As far as the colapsing column, Joe would have to stuff something pretty damn hard for that column to pin his chest. The concern is valid, but its sorta unlikely.
Well the steering linkage is a little of topic, but on the other hand I've been reading threads on converting to r&p and although few people have done it (I think a few have), it seems not too difficult and probably worth it.
I just installed the shaft off of a '97 Astro van. It's pretty much a direct bolt-in. No rag joint at all, just 2 u-joints and a collapsable shaft. The only part that needed to be modified was the connection from the upper u-joint to the steering column by the firewall, and all it needed was a hole drilled through the middle and a new bolt.
The only problem I ran into is that now my steering wheel is turned 90 degrees to the right. I was gonna just pull my steering wheel and rotate it on the spline, but it's a Dino leather racing wheel which was on the car when I bought it, and I can't get the damn thing off for the life of me. Guess I'll just fix it by adjusting my tie rods for now.
Edit: Can't get nearly that much toe out of my tie rods, so I guess I'll have to live with it until I can find just the right wheel puller.
I just clocked my u-joints to get the wheel straight. I believe it 90* is how much I clocked it. Now in perspective it isn't a good idea to have the 2 joints on the intermediate shaft on different angles BUT, the shaft is pretty straight and I checked to see if there was any movement and I couldn't see any from lock to lock... so that's how I corrected the steering wheel angle problem. When your wheel is off by that much, does it effect the auto off of the turning indicators? I'd think it would but maybe not...
found the bearing setup and a shaft from an 80's early 90's safari
the bearing kit went right in:
The shaft is cool.
As far as the upper connection to the steering column shaft:
I could have used my stocker but it had the same "shredded CV boot" and nasty rag joint issues that others have had. This new shaft has the same size reception hole for it as the original steeing shaft. The proper "notching" of the steering column shaft like the donor vans have, is required to get the bolt that holds the upper mount in a "pinch" fitting like the lower half of the shaft does. I did mine with a "wizzer" cut off wheel, but a die grinder and carbide burr or dremel could be used I am sure.
the shaft will be legthened 4.0 inches bu cutting it high on the shaft (3/4" from the joint) and sliding both halves of it into a 5.5 inch long 0.750 - 0.760 inch id steel wall tubing, and clocking the steering wheel and steering boxes to thier center positions and welding the "extension" in the proper clocked position. With paint and full clean welds I feel this will allow for a clean finish, and a versatile, removable and servicable new steering shaft that still retains its "collapsable/extendable" feature. I will post final pictures of the finished product.
a view there of my manual steering box swap can be seen. it is roughly or maybe exactly the same length as the power steering box (from mounting bolt holes to shaft splines). 6.5 turns from lock to lock is not for the faint hearted at high speed.
Originally posted by JPrevost Tom, it doesn't look like you've clocked the shaft yet. You're going to need to do that to avoid having the steering wheel problem.
from post right above you
Quote:
Originally posted by B4Ctom1 found the bearing setup and a shaft from an 80's early 90's safari..........the shaft will be legthened 4.0 inches bu cutting it high on the shaft (3/4" from the joint) and sliding both halves of it into a 5.5 inch long 0.750 - 0.760 inch id steel wall tubing, and clocking the steering wheel and steering boxes to thier center positions and welding the "extension" in the proper clocked position. With paint and full clean welds I feel this will allow for a clean finish, and a versatile, removable and servicable new steering shaft that still retains its "collapsable/extendable" feature. I will post final pictures of the finished product........
Originally posted by JPrevost When your wheel is off by that much, does it effect the auto off of the turning indicators? I'd think it would but maybe not...
Thats the exact same problem i had with the first steering shaft i built...
hey guyz im having a problem with all this , my steering shaft from the steerin wheel is moving, has about 1/2in play or more in out, is this normal? , becasue i just installed new sterring colum berings and when i put it back together, the shaft comes out of the bearing casueing the wheel to flop around .
then i looked again the fist bearing has a shim, that u put in to make the colum tight , then i comperssed the spring with the plate turn the wheel a few times comes again i am very confused,
NEOMASTERZ28, start a new thread and be more exact on the parts you're playing with. Pictures or detailed descriptions of the shape and location helps us visualize your problem.
I haven't completed the shaft as I took it to a welding shop to have the 5.5" piece welded to it and they ruined it. Instead of finding me a piece of stock which was ~0.750" id, they found something larger, the result was a crooked weld of the extension. By the time it was ground off the piece was ruined. I haven't made it to the wrecking yard to get another shaft to start over.
I'm bringing this one back from the dead because I want everyone to know that Unbalanced Engineering has a rag joint eliminator kit for 3rd gens, $41 shipped. All I have left undone for my steering is to rebuild my steering box. I'll let you know how it goes.
With that said, there is obviously a reason why I am not using mine, they bind. The rag joint eliminator makes that second joint stiff and creates bind. I went to a full flaming river shaft. It is beautiful
With that said, there is obviously a reason why I am not using mine, they bind. The rag joint eliminator makes that second joint stiff and creates bind. I went to a full flaming river shaft. It is beautiful
well that sucks, I guess it's too late now. I looked all over TGO for a review and nothing.
. 
.Your right though the feel with the U-joints is much better & smooth too.The bearing for the tube out of the firewall helps too. 
