For everyone trying to use ES 35 mm bushings or other improperly sized aftermarket bushings for the 36 mm bar, there is a better answer. Moog sells a replacement bushing that is the correct size. Part number K6459 is a polyurethane bushing (blue in color) that fits the stock brackets, and the best part - they cost $13 for the pair.

THANKS!

Does Moog actually call it polyurethane? Or is it something different called thermoplastic?

I ask this because when Moog came out with it, it was actually a thermoplastic material...and I could never find the exact specs on it or how it compared to poly....

Anyone else know what I am talking about?

Not a dig on Spohn but when I recieved the "36mm" greasable swaybar bushing (prothane I think), it said 1 3/8" on it. Which if you do the math is only 34.925mm. I wasn't worried about it though. When I torqued everything down the bushings closesd right up.

polyurethane is a type of thermoplastic....they arent two separate things.

FWIW, the Moog bushing is spec'd as being for a 1 7/16" sway bar - which is just over 36mm. The sway bar is supposed to easily rotate in the frame bushings (which is one reason for greasing them) - using too small a bushing makes them act like clamps and induces bind which changes the effective sway bar rate in an unpredictable manner. Most people probably wont be able to tell the difference on a street car, but since the correct size bushings are available so cheap, you might as well use them....

That is because ES doesnot make a 36mm. Spohn uses the closest size and reams it out to 36mm and welds a new bracket together.

Does anyone have a link to their site?

www.guldstrand.com also sells poly bushings for the 36mm sway bar, i believe these are the bushings that spohn and TDS sell (making them greaseable), and they will also fit the stock brackets.

I did a search for "K6459 " on NAPA's site, and it shows up as a Rear Suspension Leaf Spring Bushing...

TDS sells the 36mm greasables.

I found some 36mm bushings on the advance auto site TRW PN#HB1679 and Mcquay Norris PN#FA7189.I ordered the TRW's will post what they are made out of rubber or poly when I get them.

Guldstrand has the graphite polyurethane bushing for 36mm(measures 1 7/16") that fits YOUR stock bracket(a new bracket is not included). It comes with grease to lube it up before you install it. It's probably the best--but...

TDS sells the same bushing but includes a replacement stock bracket that's been modified with a grease fitting to make it greaseable, and the bushing is modified to receive the grease.

So TDS makes the best even better.

I had the 36mm Guldstrand front sway bar bushings and they were great except for two things: they weren't greaseable and they caused more stress on the stock brackets than they could handle and one just snapped in half during normal street driving. They're for sale by the way... I now have the Spohn bushings and no complaints with those.

My votes for Spohns 36mm greasables, they come with thick brackets.

I got the greasable ones for my Formula from TDS (Lon), and they went on easily and work great. I like the third mounting hole on these as opposed to only 2 on the Spohn version. Nice thick brackets, too. Just my 2 cents worth.

Have a Great DaY!!!


- Vern

I was just looking at the sway bar bushing brackets on Lon's web site and I only see two mounting holes. They look just like the stock mounts with the little tabs on one corner to locate it on the frame. Also it looks like he just drills a hole through the bushing and mount, puts a zerk fitting on and calls it greasable. The bushings from Spohn have channels cut into the ID of the bushing for the grease. Maybe the TDS ones do, but it doesn't look like it from the picture.

OOPS!!! The 3 hole brackets were on their WonderBar.

My Bad, Sorry!

I installed their WonderBar at the same time as I replaced my factory bushings with Lon's greasable ones. Guess I'm showing how old I'm getting, eh? Already 52, got dentures, bifocals, hearing aids, aches & pains, almost no hair, yep, definitely an Old Phart!

You know what they say: You come into this world bald, with no teeth, don't know your name, and can't talk - and you go out the same way!

Anyway, back on topic, you're right, there are only 2 holes on the bracket. And now you've got me questioning my memory on the grease groove in the bushing itself. I honestly can't remember if they did or not. Why not just ask him?

Sorry I wasn't much help...




- Vern

Yes I modify Guldstrand supplied bushings to make them greasable by drilling a hole in it and machining a groove in the ID for grease to flow.

Yes I modify stock GM brackets by drilling a hole and tapping it for a zerk fitting prior to sending it for yellow-zinc plating.

Lon

Is there any place I could get JUST the brackets and the "Exhaust" type brackets to hold the Rear Sway Bar? I got the Sway Bar kit from Spohn, and he gave me all the bushings and he gave me one pair of brackets and told me to use the stock hardware for the rear (I believe)...Any ideas? I'd use the stock ones, but don't know if they'll fall apart when I take them off, or if they are real ****** to begin with.

napa carries 36mm front bushings..,,,

part number 265-2176

the rear 24 mm bushings are part number 265-2010 iirc.

I just need the brackets, and not the bushings...I already have the bushings...

I don't understand what you mean by the term "Exhaust" type brackets. You can order just the front or rear sway bar retaining brackets by ordering the "NB" (no bushings) option.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

I meant the "U Bolts" and the Hangers that go beneath them.

Order TDS p/n 202170, specify the "NB" option.

Lon

Thanks...will the front and rear clamps fit a 1 5/16" front & 1" rear?

They are stock GM brackets that have been zinc plated. So long as the bushings are designed to fit the GM brackets you'll be fine.

Lon

Are the same brackets used for every size bushing? Stock came w/ 35/25 Bushings I believe...so, I believe it should fit...

Yes.

Lon

Lon,

Can you just get your greasable bushings, and not the brackets/bolts?

thanks, phil

BTW, Installed your "wonderbar" last night. Went on great.

Phil,
I just replied to your e-mail on this subject. I have added the "BD" bracket delete option to the front and rear greasable bushing kits. This allows you to order greasable bushings only, no brackets or mounting hardware.

Lon

if you want to save even more money go to www.guldstrand.com , im pretty sure those are the bushings that TDS uses in their kits and they are onlly $19.95 a pair, then just drill a hole in it. They are made to fit stock brackets.

Thanks, Lon. But I think you need to add:

36mm BD
34mm BD
32mm BD

so I can select which bushings I want.

nobody wants to listen to me, LOL, oh well, its your money

There is no guessing required to know that I modify Guldstrand poly & poly-graphite bushings for my kits. I state it in the description of the product. But there is more to my method of modifying the front bushings than simply drilling a hole for the grease. I also machine a groove in the ID for the grease to flow around the sway bar. Yes of course you can buy the bushings from GS and modify them yourself. That is what I did years before I began selling them. Of course my method was a bit more crude back then compared to now, since I didn't have the special tooling I now use to cut the groove.

Lon

ok, i see, i thought that there was just a hole drilled into them, i guess you are the way to go if you want greaseable bushings. Thanks for clearing that up

I got the TRW/federal mogul 36mm bushings today I cant tell what there made of.They are black and look like rubber but they are hard like poly maybe they are that thermoplastic stuff.Also they they are a true 36mm and
have "RAMCOA made in U.S.A." on them.

The ones i got where blue.

Are the TRW/Moog ones greasable? Do they fit the stock brackets? Where did you get them?

thanks

Mine are non greasable and i got them at the local autopart store.
stock bracket

non-greasable fits stock bracket ordered from PartsAmerica.com

I have been looking for these part numbers for a long time. Thanks for all the info and all your help.

Yeah I called spohn out on that a while ago about when he first came out with them. He said he modifies the bracket so they work and "hones out" the bushing so it fits properly. Yeah it fits ok, but that was kind of a "WTF is this?" moment when I realized what it was.

from the picture on the spohn site it looks like their 36mm bushing does not use the stock bracket. Spohn Performance, Inc.

I bought something that looks a lot like this from energy suspension and I wasn't happy with the thickness of the rubber and the holes weren't offset like the stock brackets. In fact the rubber was so thick that it looked like it should go on a bus. It had to be 3x thicker than the stock bushing, which would make it much less stiff. I decided to keep the 34 mm bar with a thin bushing since it will be stiffer than that monster bushing and a 36mm bar. Now that I know that a good bushing exhist I will order it. Thanks for the help.

Hey guys, I happen to have a friend that works at Federal Mogul who owns Moog. I asked about him to ask about these bushings. Here is what the Moog guy said:

This might not be the best performance pushing out there, but we really don't have much choice when it comes to the 36mm. The other thing we have going for is that the 36mm hole doesn't leave much rubber, which means the bushing is going to be more stiff than a bushing that holds a smaller bar.

Ok everyone! I UNDERSTAND YOU ALL GOT THE RIGHT PARTS AND ARE FINE AND DANDY WITH THEM!! BUT WHeRE THE HELL DID YOU GUYS PURCHASE the damn bushings!!!??? and how much did they cost!!!!!!! pleeease!!

Bought my Moog blue bushings at O"Reillys. Drilled and tapped the bracket and inserted my own grease zerk.Cost for bushings was $21.00 plus about $5.00 for the tap and zerks. Hope this helps. Badman

Top Down Specialties (TDS - TGO sponsor), Lon is on this board, too.

Wow I replaced the bushings and now the my turns are much more stiff and softer!!!!!!!! yesss!!!

According to RockAuto, Moog K6459 is a 1 7/16" [1.44"] bushing whereas 36mm translates to 1.41 inches. Maybe .3" isn't an issue and will compress under the clamp but I would just like to know who is using this p/n and have you noticed any type of play in the bracket at all?

Yes I know this is an old post - but I've come across it several times.. so I suppose adding tidbits may be good. I'm not sure if it's a GM thing but the swaybars never measure out to what they should be - and I'm not using a cheapy ruler. Obviously at different points the dimensions will be different. However, they never seem to match the spec. I had a Beretta back in the day and everyone said the largest front bar was 30MM - mine was 32mm and measured 32.8mm - of course those fools on the Bnet boards failed to read the GM specs.. there was a rare 32mm bar.

Anyhow, on my Firebird the rear was swapped to an 88 from the original 89.. Gear Ratio got better, brakes and swaybar got worse - however, finding the right size bushings for it wasn't much fun. Measuring where the bushings went (no rust there) I forget the exact spec but it was 24mm..

Unfortunately 24mm bushings were too large, even though the numbers didn't match I ended up with 23mm bushings I believe.

Anyhow, the point that I am making is that a bushing's measurement isn't going to be exact to the bar it fits. The bar will probably be larger than the published number and the bushing smaller. Which leads to guessing - or more or less attempting a snug yet pleasant fit.

I'm going to try the RAMCOA bushings supplied by MOOG/TRW, I think that they are a great product. (They are Thermoplastic Rubber) From past experiences they seem quite a bit better than rubber, though it would be difficult to determine how much (if any) different they are than Polyurethane.

If noone has experienced them, they are very stiff material - though they have a slight soft feel to the material like a rubber. Though the material itself is quite firm. I like them very much over rubber, and think that they are definitely better than trying to use Energy Suspension Poly, or something as annoying.

On a scale of 1 - 100, if Poly was 100% and rubber 50%; I'd have to imagine the Thermoplastic to be at least 85-90% as stiff as Polyurethane. Though my guesses are in no way scientific.

Anyhow, anyone ever find an acceptable way to measure a swaybar and get intelligible data? or perhaps the X139 stamped in the bar mean 1.39"? lol that would be too easy!