Suspension / ChassisQuestions about your suspension? Need chassis advice?
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Can anyone post some roll bar pics in there Z? Anyone that has done this whats the cost and how complicated. Links to any sites would be helpful too! I'm thinking I just want one in the back to the lower sides that come to floor. Any ideas would be great I would like to have it power coated black or red.
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You will have a Verry hard time Powdercoating it. Your gona have to use a IR light and have EVERYHTING removed out of the car. I'm a Coater and didnt even bother doing mine. I just painted it.
Originally posted by bjm323 Chris, I like those pics. you have saved. Maybe you would like to come over and finish mine up. I can't seem to get off my dead aZZ. LOL!
Come on now.. You need to GET ER DONE!!!!! I want to see more pic's. Your the one who made me start to mini tub mine.
__________________ 92 Vert | 383 LT1 | Novi 2000 supercharger | 125 Shot Nitrous | Alloy Engineering Strut Mounts |spohon adj. trq arm & cross member | 9bolt with 3.45's
here's a quick few. competition engineering 8 point kit. cost was a few tanks of welding gas and 2 small rolls of welding wire.
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
Kandieds Side bars arnt legal. they are to low. just like mine.
I dont plan to hit the track much anyways. but when I do I'll take the chance of getting tossed out. or told to keep it above 12.0
I didnt want to comprimise the getting in and out this time around. Ya I need the cage as Im building a 400+ cube Turbo small block and mini tubbin the car. But This time around Its gona be show and go..
kandied- where did you purchase your cage? i love the low door bars. i drive my car everywhere, and im a big guy..... kenny brown used to make one like that, but he has gone all 4th gen and mustang the last couple of years.
looks very good with the seats and the harness. matches very well. :hail:
why is it that snksknrz28 and xpndbl3 both have the CE 8 point kit, but the side bars look different? interesting that xpndbl3's bars clear the door handles too, I thought there was a separate part nuber for that
just a home made unit....the price of chromoly is outrageous and i wouldn't recommend it. same thing could be done in mild steel but you would have to go larger on the size of tubing which wasn't an option. i like not noticing the cage. in fact i have to point it out most of the time unless i open the hatch.
as far as legal.........does it look like i race the car competitavely? just like TPl383 said, it's there more for structure and function, however i'm prepared to deal with it the 2 track days a year i attend. it's the other 6 months of driving the car i don't want to comprimise.
Originally posted by 1320 Right Ln. why is it that snksknrz28 and xpndbl3 both have the CE 8 point kit, but the side bars look different? interesting that xpndbl3's bars clear the door handles too, I thought there was a separate part nuber for that
Both of them and mine are the same cage. CE's 8point. Diff use of diff bars in diff places. I used the ones he used on his Doors to go ALL the way back instead of right above the gass tank.
TP383 is correct, the bars are all long enough so that you can place them however you like. I had them laid out a few different ways. The reason behind the way i did it is cuz i tied all my bars into the frame and sub frame connectors, the hoop has been boxed on the bottem and welded, the two inner braces tie into the frame of the car, the two going back tie into some bracing that is above the gas tank, and the two door bars go through the floor and are welded to the sub frame connectors, I used the bends in the door bars to go around the seat because at the bottom the bar is welded a tad bit inward to line up on the top of the subframe, if i went straight with the bar it would have been pressing on the seat. Gotta make the car strong when ur pushin' 800 ponies :tup:
Here are some pix of it primed and b4 i put the interior back in..
I've got a vert and the CE 8 point sitting in my garage; where should the rear bars be put? If I put them on top of the gas tank like snksknr, I wouldn't be able to close my top/put it all the way down...
ah, thnx for the clarification. so u're saying that the side and rear bars are interchangeable depending on where you want the ends to wind up? n' i'd love to see some pics of how you tied the front bars to the SFC, and the bracing you made above the gas tank snksknr.
Originally posted by iansane I've got a vert and the CE 8 point sitting in my garage; where should the rear bars be put? If I put them on top of the gas tank like snksknr, I wouldn't be able to close my top/put it all the way down...
with the vert your gona have to go more forward and cut the bars really short. Something like this is how I plan to do mine.
if u have your gas tank removed, look up from the bottom, u can see to braces underneath, i placed the 6x6in plate directly on top of them, it makes the rear more rigid, you could also go all the way back into the 'well' area but i did't like the looks of it, personal thing, and it wouldn't have ended up straight unless you do some fabbing.
For the side bars, first i cut a 6x6 inch hole through the floor, directly on top of the sub frame connector with my plasma cutter, after the bar was cut to length and trimmed, put it in place and tacked it down. The drivers side is welded directly to the subframe, the passenger side is welded to a 2x2 piece of square stock (both ends are capped), and then welded to the subframe, the sub frames on either side are at different hieghts, which the purpose for the 2x2 inch piece on the passenger side. Next i covered the holes that i cut through the floor, i took the 6x6 inch plate, cut it in half, trimmed it till if fit around the bar and welded it down, and all around. Heres some pix, now mind some of these pix are progress pix, the ones underneath were cleaned up and painted
__________________ 1988 Camaro IROC-Z
99' LS1/T56 swap.. now rumbling..
Originally posted by Kandied91z i love the color of those new nitrous bottles. they still painting them or is it a coating?
It came like that when i ordered the kit, i love it too Only thing is i'm afraid i'm not gonna be able to keep it where i have it mounted because its right in front of the rear window, it might get way to hot there in the summer, i might have to tuck it away somewhere else I go to alot of car shows so i'd like to keep it visible and show off.. we'll see i guess..
yeah, i had planned on putting both of mine up top like this....however here in michigan it's illegal to have the lines connected on city roads so i changed their location.
Here's mine in my firebird... basic same idea, it's just a roll bar. I used the 8 point S&W Race Car base kit, then order dual swing outs and clearance bars. Pretty nice just swing them and you're ready to get in.
If I did it over again I think I would buy my swingout kit from Comp. Engineering they offer a kit now that is already 1 piece. The S&W kit I got had 2 pieces for each bar so you had to align both the top pin hole and the bottom before welding them which was a pita.
I used the regular straight bars for the parts for the X-brace. You still get the straight and clearance bars that's why it costs a little bit for the clearance option.
I had some minor mods like moving the hoop back to the rear seat humps like the other pics (I'm 6'4+ and I wanted the seat all the way back). I also went ahead and had all my tabs I should need Mig'd on for harnesses. Sadly I didn't get the rear bars attached to the gas hump. The welder threw a fit about the tank being in there so, I'll just do that on the next fuel pump swap probably.
I had $280 total on the roll bar purchase and shipment (more in options than the base kit cost ), then another 300 bucks for the welding (I did all the interior removal and installation + helped out the shop when I could), and then another 30 bucks for the Por-15 Black glass paint. So right around $600 total not a bad deal in my book.
I have since ditched the cargo cover and moved to a subwoofer setup... now the x-brace also serves as an amp rack.
Hey guys on the competition eng. 8-point cage does anything come welded together or do you have to do the entire this yourself?? Also If I was lookign at getting one put in what kind of place would I be looking for and about how much should I expect to pay?? thanks
Originally posted by 89formula#1 Hey guys on the competition eng. 8-point cage does anything come welded together or do you have to do the entire this yourself?? Also If I was lookign at getting one put in what kind of place would I be looking for and about how much should I expect to pay?? thanks
Nothing come pre assembled. and you have to fit the tubes.(fish eye some of them)
Look for any local performance shops that do chassis work. You can expect to pay anywhere from $300+ to have it put in by a shop.
I'm sure he won't mind. This is a link to Karl Hunters Roll Cage for Road Racing. Local builder. Very nice job. Note the tie in's for the rear weight jacks.
Yeah that does look pretty nice! I like how he put the rear plates right by the shock area. Sometimes they say if you get the rear bars that far apart it's a little more prone to collapse, but I highly doubt that with the way he made intermediate connectors for the halo and main hoop.
About the only thing that is done for you is a few of the bars are already "fish eyed" for fitment. Course it takes a little more grinding sometime to get them right. But yeah there is a lot of work: interior removal, plate forming, cutting bars to right length and cutting all the angles into them.
I guess I can also point out there isn't a need to go full out with the floor modifications to weld the roll bar or cage to the sub frames. In our cars since there unibody we can get away with just using 6 inch x 6 inch 1/8" steel plates for mounts. But if you feel the need go for it.
awsome thread. this will definitly help me with my design. in the next few months/year i am getting a 3rd gen and slapping a l67 engine in it. i race grand prix and the engines are so damn good that it should be easy to hit 11 or better with the similar setup i have in my 12sec gtp. i just miss rwd. i see you all have 8points. any specific reason? i was thinking a 4 point. is the rear seat still accesable? or at least for a carseat? im gathering from the pics that you just weld some plate steel to the floorpan and weld the bar to it. would it be better to weld a plate across the top of the tank area and fit to each wheel well for more stability? i have been welding for about 2 years. no huge projects mostly exhaust and a floorpan in one car. i use a mig setup. will that be effective on welding a cage? what is basic turnaround time for install? the car will be a daily driver. im not going to built the engine until the car is 100% ready for it. i want to get everything all set so i can pull the motor and slide the l67 in.
thanks guys
__________________ Comparing Domestic cars to imports is like comparing men to women. You know which has the balls and which doesn't. -D
Basically most of us agree that as long as the rear bars are mounted close to the shock area on the body it'll work best. As for Mig yes that will be fine for mild steel. If you plan on going full out race, such as chromemoly setup you'll need to Tig that.
Took me acouple weeks for the full project to be done, but I helped the welding guy and I was in school still at the time so we worked around that. Should be possible to knock out the full install in a weekend if you try, I bet.
Just don't expect your 4 point setup to be legal at a track. There's some pretty strict rules on the placement of the bars and stuff.
ok, so then an 8 is a better choice im guessing. ill have to toss in a swingout bar for the wife. im not an all out racer i compete like 4 times a year maybe 6 depending. roadcourse is new to me. they just put one in at my local track it isnt open yet. any install tips are apriciated. dont want to be tossed at tech
__________________ Comparing Domestic cars to imports is like comparing men to women. You know which has the balls and which doesn't. -D
I would recommend you check the rule books. Seems like every organization can be a little different. Usually basic rules go crossmember bar (bar that goes between the main hoop posts) no lower than 3 inches below your shoulders. I don't believe it can be above your shoulders either. Door bars have to cross between your shoulder and elbow while you sit in the car. The main hoop has to be around 3" above your head... or something like that.
Like I said I would check out the offical rule books you can find most online even! Plus, they give you nice nifty little pictures and diagrams to follow.
I would like a roll cage for the looks and structural support.
But is it worth it for stock L98? my suspension only has panhard bar and shocks/springs and some sway bar bushings. i do plan on modding out the rest of it later but am saving for a motor too. This most likely be down the road
How much will the cage help in handling and drag launches? I know for launches with high hp would help to have cage but if i can get it done for under 700 is it worth it? i guess I lose back seat acess too then. dont mean to highjack but its a good thread.
mine was only expensive because of the material mainly. i prefered to have it custom built in the car so it was as out of the way as possible, however because my side bars are bent for easy access i would not be nhra legal........but that isn't a concern to me. the flexing in my hardtop was. got so bad my paint was cracking. the cage stopped all of that.
for a stock motor you can probably get away with subframe connectors. all the f bodys and my nova i had i put them in. its like night and day. plus you reduce risk of twisting the body. im not a crazy compeditor, i like to have fun with my car. but from talking with the company that puts out all the products for the engine im going to use, we are trying to figure out gearing cause its originally a fwd motor. it puts my 3800lb grand prix into the 12's on mild mods. i going a little heavier with this engine so i can only imagine 10's or better depending on gears and chassis setup. i want to road it too so i got to keep the body ok so i dont get busted at tech. if anyone has a link to the rules of cages id apriciate it much. i'd hate to have a badass car and not be able to use it legally
__________________ Comparing Domestic cars to imports is like comparing men to women. You know which has the balls and which doesn't. -D
wow i like those pict's of that setup up top and kandied always seem to have all the goodies :hail: anyway i'm goging to targe the top in a few months and am looking into the whole roll cage but i want to keep my back seat what would you all recomend
If you must keep the back seat I wouldnt even bother with a hop cross bar. but then your not goning to get all the support of putting a roll bar in. If your not worried about NHRA rules and racing make it bolt in.
One question for SnkSknrZ28 do you plan on running at NHRA race tracks
Jerry
__________________ 92 Z28 5.7 TPI AUTO 105k on factory stock heads, cam and short block.
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Now Super ram 350+ and more.
Originally posted by flyboy367 if anyone has a link to the rules of cages id apriciate it much. i'd hate to have a badass car and not be able to use it legally
Originally posted by KagA152 anybody know about welding? a guy i know told me the cage has to be TIG to be NHRA certified? also, how to they go about certifying a cage?
Pretty much goes MIG or TIG for mild steel or Only TIG if you want to use chrome-moly.
Actually you and make the bar mounts to floor bolt in and make it NHRA legal. Pretty much have to double plate everything and used a crap load of bolts. They should be in the rules somewhere. I definitly noticed a difference after the roll bar install on the handling. The car seemed a lot tighter. ( I had SFCs and a wonder bar on (I think) at the time of the install also).
If there were some closer to me, i would. However there are about 4-5 race tracks close by and they are all IHRA tracks, I really only race at 3 out of the 5. Lancaster Motorsports Park (primary, every weekend), New York International Raceway Park (secondary, only a few times per year), and Norwalk Raceway Park (once per year, IHRA Bracket Finals)
Mike
Quote:
Originally posted by JERRYWHO One question for SnkSknrZ28 do you plan on running at NHRA race tracks
anyone got any pics of a cage that the back seat can still be used ?i have my 2 seater already lol a 82 rx7 wide body runnin a ls6 and t56 want my 89 rs to kinda keep the rear seats functional for sitting and folding down etc
My pet peeve with most cages I see in third and fourth gens is that the rear braces do not go to the spring/shock mounts. For some reason, folks like to bring it further back to the trunk well or top of the gas tank "shelf", where it does almost nothing to stiffen the suspension pickup points. Why run it to the brace back there, if everything is mounted a bit more forwards (Except panhard rod)? It seems mostly drag racers do it that way... I guess it would help for a rear-end crash. The link to Karl Hunter's cage is good. Everything is tied in and triangulated very nicely.
If I could throw in a couple of observations here. These cage pics are really nice and are well designed, but I do have one question. If possible, why doesn't anyone tab off of the roof area to the bar? I realize that you have to work around the interior, but if you can do that, it really makes a big difference especially in t-top cars. Also, if possible, and you can afford it, you may want to use a chromoly(spl) cage, you will have to have it tigged in order to be legal, but molly is a lot lighter, although harder to work with than DOM tubing.
Just a couple of ideas.
Maybe you would like to come over and finish mine up. I can't seem to get off my dead aZZ. LOL! 
, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
:tup:
I go to alot of car shows so i'd like to keep it visible and show off.. we'll see i guess..
