I've been looking for a quick ratio steering box for my red Camaro for a while now. I did some research and found most people said that if the box in question has number 26000525 stamped on it along with a "Z" cast on it somewhere it must be a quick ratio 2.25 turn lock to lock box. I found just that on a '88 RS LO3 a neighbor was parting out. I pulled it and brought it home. I set it up on the workbench and turned the input shaft counting as I turned lock to lock. I found I have the standard 2.75 turn LTL box, not the sought after 2.25 turn box. Just thought I'd share the numbers have NOTHING to do with the ratio of the box. I am still looking for a 2.25 turn box right now.

John, I feel that the box you have is either A: A previously rebuilt part or B: Off another vehicle and then put on the camaro. I have had three of the box # 26000525. All three were 2.25 turns from lock to lock. I am 99.9% sure if a 26000525 box that comes off of a 3rd gen Fbody will have the 2.25 turns you're looking for. During my times searching for a used one from a junk yard, I found none with 2.25 turns that were numbered any different from a 26000525. On another note, I did find a 26000525 box that was 2.75 turns. The box came off my brother's '95 S10 PU. This is why I believe the box you have is rebuilt or from another vehicle. Just a little info from my experience. I personally have had at least 12 Boxes in my hands from 3rd gen fbodies. Hope I was able to help you for a change.

Are the 2 1/4 turn LTL boxes installed or sitting on the bench during testing? When installed the spindles can hit the lower control arm stops before the internal stops of the steering box does.


I am 99% certain this is the orginal box for the car it was on, a '88 RS LO3 with 15" wheels. The car was sitting in a garage for 3 years (paperwork problem) and was finally just parted out. It has 70K miles on it and was all orginal. The 305 was blown (overheated).

Since there have been other 26000525 boxes on other cars then it isn't 3rd gen specific and may have any ratio GM felt was needed. The ink code on the front seems to be the only real way to tell them apart. The ink code off the front of mine was worn off.

The 2.25 turns is both at the bench and in the car. None of the boxes I had that were more than 2.25 turns ever hit the bump stops in the car until it hit the locks in the box. I can verify this because all the boxes turned the same amount in the car and on the bench. From what I have experienced, all of the boxes had the same degree of pitman arm travel. The only differance was the number of turns from the input.
I still feel very confident that if one pulls the box number 26000525 off a car they will get the 2.25 box. Aftermarket rebuilders seem to only have the 2.75 turn boxes. As for other vehicles and the said box #, I don't know. I think the odds are in our favor that the 26000525 boxes found on 3rd gen cars will be 2.25. I think you just happen to have a 1 in a million box. I just got a new 87 Vert last week, I'll check the box # tomorrow and see if I can make it 4 for 4.

I better go buy a lottery ticket because I beat the odds. I do have a 26000525 box from a 3rd gen and it is not a 2.25 turn LTL box.

Anyone else want to check their steering boxes? Check the number on it and count the turns lock to lock then post the info please.

Here's a picture of the box I picked up.

I have that same # box on my car from the factory. I has never been changed- it is in fact the original box and has never been out of the car.

The car is a limited edition (Calif only) '87 RS V6 that came with a sport suspension package but had the 15x7 RS rims originally.

With the original A-arms equipped with the 15x7 steering stop, the wheel would turn lock to lock about 2.6 turns. with the now 16" rims on it and A-arms with the 16" stops it will turn only 2.25 turns lock to lock. The box will turn further that the steering stops. The stops are different on the 15" car to the 16" car to limmit the wider 16" factory wheels and tires from hitting the inner fenderells at full lock making a u-turn. The 15"rim cars will turn sharper because the 7" wide 15's will allow for more clearence.

RE: number 26000525 stamped on it along with a "Z" cast on it somewhere it must be a quick ratio 2.25 turn lock to lock box.

I am not sure why this myth persists. I have posted several times that the raised letter Z is a casting mark and appears on a wide variety of boxes. Having access to a number of vehicles that run this series box plus a loose one I checked them all. First item I found was that the number 26000525 is not stamped, it is cast in. This is the same with the raised letter Z, cast in.

The fact that these are casting numbers means that it defines the casting, not the internals. The internals can be anything. Here is a list of the boxes I just checked:

Stock '92 RS: raised Z and 26000525 cast in

'91 Formula w/16" wheels: raised Z and 26000525 cast in

Box from a truck, GM replacement (painted black with AM ink code, junk yard find): raised Z and 26000525 cast in

'87 Buick Regal: raised Z and didn't clean the grime off for the casting number (wanna' bet?).

Box from '92 TransAm, purchased in '91 from wreak with 400 miles on it: raised Z and 26000525 cast in

The only way to know the ratio is to put a degree wheel on the pitman shaft and measure the arc through one full turn of the input shaft. Or, disassemble the box and check the parts.

Boxes can be built with different stops, different ratios, and even a variable ratio versus a linear ratio.

RBob.

I totally agree with you Rob. I searched for many hours for a couple days and could not believe the replys as to what a "quick ratio" steering box was. Some said if it had a "Z" somewhere on it it was for sure a quick ratio. Others said if it had the magic number 26000525 it was 100% sure you had a quick ratio box.

I will come out to say like Rob has said the is NO WAY you can tell a quick ratio box just by looking at it.

Do you (or anyone) have a picture of a front control arm for 15" wheels and a front control arm for 16" wheels?

I would like to see the difference and possibly modify my front control arms with the 16" wheel turn stops.

Well actually to explain things more accurately what I did, I didn't exactly find a set of 16" rim factory A-arms. I welded my 15" rim stops with mure weld bead material and then grinded them into original shape. I added about 1/8" to them. I also welded bracing to the underside. I don't have a picture of the stops but I did snap a shot of the bracing I did.

This subject of the different stops has been brought up before a few times in the past here on TGO. I tried searching but did not come up with any pictures that anyone has posted. I just positively remember people stating this in the past- One of my few post that I am going off of hearsay- But I can somewhat confirm this having owned a 15" rim car that turned sharper than the several V8 IROC's I have driven over the years that did not turn as sharp. Now niether does mine with the now added wider 16x8 rims. Mine did rub the fenderwells inside until I welded a little material to the stops. The IROC's from the factory never rubbed. I am running identical offset as the factory IROC's.

I checked the box on my '87 Irov Vert. Wanna bet what I found??? Four for Four. I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you all. I believe that if you find a 26000525 box off a 3rd generation Fbody, you will get your 2.25 turn box. That's the key though. It needs to come off a 3rd gen fbody. However. I cannot explain your find. It is well established that the box number 26000525 can be found in other vehicle lines. I am not talking about the other car lines. In my opinion and from my experience, you will not find the 2.25 turn box on a 3rd gen Fbody without the number 26000525.

I will respectfully tell you you are wrong on your info. You need to read my post above again. I have a factory original box stamped 2600525 and when I pull the tierods off it will in fact turn more than 2.25 turns lock to lock. I tried to snap a picture of the #'s to prove what I have but I am sorry to say my camara will not focus in on that small of numbering so you will have to respect my credibility around here.

Well, I guess that's where it ends. I'm wrong and will have to respect your credibility around here.

From my previous post: Stock '92 RS: raised Z and 26000525 cast in

To fill in the blanks: 15" wheels, 2.75 turns L2L.

There is a CarCraft article that was done with the help of Lee Manufacturing. I'll see if I can find it. There is one picture that shows how to tell which ratio the box is by examining the markings on the worm shaft.

RBob.

Further research says the casting number 26000525 does NOT make a steering box a 2 1/4 turn box. GM identified these quick ratio 2 1/4 turn boxes by an ink stamped 2 letter code on the front of the box. The correct code for a 3rd gen 2 1/4 turn box is "HX" or "XH" depending on which way you view it. I got this data from the GM dealership. Here's a chart showing all quick ratio 12.7:1 boxes.



The code from the 26000525 box i pulled off the '88 RS LO3 is "JL" and is a 2 3/4 turn box. Here's a picture what the ink stamp looks like.

To sum it all up, if you find a 3rd gen with 16" wheels from the factory you can be assured it is a quick ratio box if orginal.

just FYI... the number of turns it does lock to lock is depenant on where the stops are set in the box.

it is NOT a indicator of the ratio... the amount of turn compared to the amount of pitman arm movement is.

True but a 2 1/4 turn box will be a 12.7:1 ratio (quick ratio) steering box.

Well, the facts speak for themself. I must admit that the 26000525 number appears to not be the indicator for the magic box. Hopefully you all can understand that I was only speaking from my experience. I mean, I only have had about 12 different Fbody boxes in my hands. And I installed around 5 different boxes in one of my cars. In that time, I never came across a fbody 26000525 box with more than 2.25 turns. :shrug: I can also say I never came across a box that had 2.25 turns that wasn't the said#. So I based my conclusion on my personal findings. What can else can I say.:shrug:

I was not aiming the corrections at you OneBad but to all the TGO members. I got so much wrong info when i searched for how to identify a quick ratio box it was silly. the people actually believed they were correct when they said a "Z" on the box meant it was quick ratio. Others said teh magic number 26000525 was for sure it.

I was shopping for one and I had to do a little more research to really determine how they are different without opening it up.

I just hope I helped someone looking for one.

John, I am well aware that you were not aiming the corrections at me. I thought it was important that I acknowledge that I was incorrect and how I came to my opinion. I find it interesting that it took so long to finally debunk the whole 26000525 myth. You think someone would have chimed in years ago and said "hey I got that box # on my fbody and it aint 2.25 turns."

is there a company where we could order brand new units or super nice remanufactured 2 1/4 turns...like maybe from newvettes or somethin....

If I were to go with a new/rebuilt box I would deal with Lee:

Lee Manufacturing (818)768-0371

RBob.

Cleaning up the office and I found the article, actually stumbled across it. The pic is from Car Craft March 2000, p 56, by Marlin Davis. The grooves are a little hard to see in the pic, however, they are on the main or outer most surface of the ball screw.

RBob.

I'd go with http://www.circletracksteering.com/products.htm $125 for a rebuild, or buy a gear outright for $230.

But really, why shop for a new gear when you can have your stock gear rebuilt to be the quick ratio. :shrug:

Yes, exactly… I hate when this topic comes up and it seems to come up on every 3rd gen list and board from time to time.

The turns lock to lock are dependant on the stops setup in the box, not the ratio of the box. The quick ratio box was available with either set of stops depending on the wheels that he car came with. At one point I measured angles, counted turns and took pictures of both my 83 TA and my ’87 formula 350 just to prove this. The formula has the 2.25 turn box, the TA does not, but turn the wheel in both cars a set ammount and the front wheels turned exactly the same amount.

From a practical standpoint (when you’re driving down the road) there is no difference between the fast ratio 15” wheel and 16” wheel box, they will respond exactly the same with the same input, give the same feedback to the wheel… you will just be able to turn the 15” wheel box further, allowing a tire wider then a 215 65 15 (stock early 15” tire) on a ½” offset wheel to rub the inner fender before you stall the steering box against it’s stops (which by the way is a bad thing, you should never crank the wheel all the way over against it’s stops with either box anyway, on the flip side, I’ve never seen a tire damaged from it rubbing the inner fender when turned too far, I put well over 150K miles on my 83 with 2 shiny spots on the inner fenders where the tires were occasionally allowed to touch with no problems).

Considering that, and the fact that most people that seem to be looking for this box are running something wider then a stock tire anyway so the tire will rub a little if cranked all the way with either box you’re really just wasting your money swapping from one fast ratio box to the other, and since it appears that most models were available with one fast ratio box or the other…. Real world, if you have either you’ll be able to turn the wheel exactly the same amount before the tires hit and that’s it, and it will make no difference what stops you have in the box, in other words, the 2 boxes will be functionally identical in every way.

Now what I have wondered and never confirmed is what did the later 3rd gens that came with original style 15”, ½” offset wheels and 235 60 15 tires come with in their boxes (like some of the later RS’s)? Those tires should be more prone to rubbing then any of the other factory wheel/tire combinations and if GM was consistent should have come with stops that even had less LTL turns then the 16” wheel boxes, and may be an off the shelf solution for the truly anal retentive out there that are running wider then stock tires and don’t want to be able to turn their wheel far enough for the tires to rub.

FWIW, if your tires rub when the wheel is turned all the way often you can get rid of it all together by using a roughly 3/16” thick spacer behind the wheel

I am actually looking to buy a re-built box for my front suspension rebuild and brake upgrade. I already have a quick ratio box but it needs a rebuilt.

I found from www.rockauto.com the part number for AC-Delco rebuilt quick ratio box's...
AC-Delco Part number: 36-0516561
GM part number: 88991244
Description: "(REMAN) With RPO RIDE & HANDLING SUSP(FE2) ^ FIRM RIDE & HANDLING SUSP(F41) ^ IROC-Z PKG(Z28) 2 TO 2 1/2 TURNS LOCK TO LOCK"

Crossed Number to other brands...
Napa auto parts: NSP276550


Non quick ratio part number...
GM part# 88991227 (REMAN 3 to 3-1/2 turns lock to lock box) standard S-10

This is an old but relevant post and I'm glad I finally ran across it. If any of you original posters pick this up; my question has to do with the actual rubbing of the tire on the fenderwheel AND the bottom of the strut.

Now that I've replaced the entire suspension, including a set of Hotchkis springs, the factory 16'' wheels and tires rub significantly. The bottom inch of the front struts press up against the side of the sway-bar end-links, catching hard and throwing the front end in the air like the Ackerman issue from hell.

Once I install a set of 1/8 or 3/16 inch spacers on the front, do I need to put any on the rear wheels for alignment tracking??? This is the factory 16'' IROC with the original 88-89 wheels & original tyre sizes.
Nitro

Catching what hard???

I can’t figure out how you could end up with serious interference with stock size wheels/tires to be described like that without having something misassembled or broken, even if it’s severely lowered. I can’t even imagine what could possibly come close to hitting the bottom of the strut, it’s behind the spindle so nothing can even come close to it.

My ’83 TA had about the worst combination possible, larger tires on a car that was lowered MUCH more than most 3rd gens with what was originally a 15” tire car (the close ratio steering box has different stops allowing you to turn the wheel farther, the 16” wheel cars didn’t have a tigher box, the lock to lock turns were just fewer because they used thicker stops in the box so the steering radius was just larger/you couldn’t turn the wheel as far to prevent the tires from rubbing). Even that combination just rubbed a little on the inside if I turned the wheel all the way to the locks. Putting ¼” spacers behind the wheels pretty much fixed that but caused slight rubbing on the plastic wheel well liners front and back when with the wheels turned to the locks, which was fixed by a little hammering (to move the metal behind the plastic) and heat, but even without that it really wasn’t bad enough to really worry about.

But to answer your actual question, no, putting spacers behind the front tires shouldn’t require you to do anything on the back

I just got a replacement box for my car from a 16" wheel car, now I measure LTL, and i'm getting exactly 2.5 turns LTL. Is this fast ratio?

no, 2.25 is