1983Fbody

Fender well delete..

Ahneatah dash now..


More pics of rollcage..
http://www.81x.com/Authors/83fbody/DCP_2263.JPG
http://www.81x.com/Authors/83fbody/DCP_2268.JPG

I wish I could've taken pic's since I painted some of the stuff, that's about when the batterys go dead in the camera though.

18inchboyds

is that gonna hold up , the way it is now it doesnt look like it wil be strong enough to hold the weight .

colonboy14

iTrader: (7)

Why would you do that?

1983Fbody

Why would you do that?

More room for exhaust piping, intake, etc. eventually this will be a tturbo car once the chassis is done. Lost a little weight off the front end as well.

is that gonna hold up , the way it is now it doesnt look like it wil be strong enough to hold the weight .

The strut doesnt really hold any weight, well I suppose there is some side load since it acts like an upper ball joint- the springs handle the brunt of the load. It's all the braking, pot holes, hard cornering, et.c. that will put force on that mount. Anyway I know what you mean, it's a work in progress before the batterz died in my camera I did reinforce it more since that pic was taken.

1983Fbody

Not my car, looks similar to this now...

Karps TA

iTrader: (2)

Wow. You really should win some kind of prize.....

Daz

iTrader: (1)

Where do you think the spring and strut pushes when you hit a bump?..lol..hellooooooooooo "strut tower"?

Red Devil

This has GOT to be some sort of joke right? I hope to heaven that you in no way are in an engineering type of job, and that that car never makes it to the road like that. And what in the hell did you use to weld that?!?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I sure as hell hope your plan to finish it off with a complete tube chassissupport like Eddie did. he has about 1000hrs in design and work in the white RS. and nowheres near done.

Its prob getting a 1piece front glass clip to go along with all the work put into it.

BTW I like the site you got the pic from..lol.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

BTW, heres a better pic if you plan to finish it off right.

Meatwad

Good job! I wonder how much weight you lost off the front?

1983Fbody

Thanks for the other pic TPI383, thems the kinda photos that started my whole project@! I don't have time to 'glass the fenders yet, I almost have the hood done though. Instead of a 1piece frontend I made some brackets to hang the fenders off the outer frame rails.

The two pipes that support the strut tower mounts.. do those go thru the frame or just welded to the top? That frame's pretty thin stuff and I wasn't sure if I shoulda used a plate between the "strut tower supports" and the frame to better distribute the load.

ZBRA

Dewey316

Where do you think all the stored energy in the spring goes when it rebounds?

when you hit a pot hole, where do you think all the force to control the spring from compressing goes. The 'jolt' and rebound forces are actualy pretty significant.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I'm just hoping this isn't for a street car. Gonna get all kinds of things (rain, dirt, leaves, small animals etc) pulled into the well cut outs on the street.

Definitely unique compared to the cars around in my area, for that I give you an A.

You could also use a little better album organization on the website.

spartyon

aww...come on chris. you know what some of those yocums are capable of out by us. definitely not streetworthy by the looks of it.

AlkyIROC

Didn't you watch Horsepower TV when they were strip testing a car they built? A car builder told them to put inner fenders on to keep the turbulence out from under the hood.

1983Fbody

Still no further progress on the car, still sitting in the garage looking pretty much like the camaro pic.. fenders hanging off a couple pipes, no radiator, no bumper support. Hope to have some updated pic's in the next couple weeks after school papers are done handed' in then I can get get back over to the garage!

Dewey316- I didn't mean for this to turn into a techinical discussion, it's more than welcome though. I have to admit I wasn't thinking the spring is actually storing energy at all times. I originally thought that the shock (strut ) only dealt with the weight of the aarm, wheel, tire, hub, and spindle when driving over road kill, potholes, etc.. uhmm at the same time I wanna say that at least some of the springs stored energy is distributed by the xmember's upper spring mount. I'm no suspension or math expert and I can tell that you know your stuff by reading some of your other posts on here.

That said, can you or anyone tell me why a strut would put more shock, force, stress on a mount than a shock? I only ask this 'cause I look at rear axle shock mounts and they aren't exactly tuff sheet. a couple factory zap welds and one 9/16's nut hold it together... same with front shock cars like my '66 el camino (when it was still a 2wd), '70 chevelle, etc.. the older double aarm kinda suspentions had the shocks held on with two little bolts and a little strip of 1/8" steel- not very stout looking either, yet they seemed to hold up to off roading type abuse pretty well ;-)

fireturd350- This car was a daily driver, I have a feeling it will be seeing more garage time after all this. At the same time I believe there's no sense in having a decent car if you don't plan on driving it, showing it, or racing it. Heck, this is the best MPG vehicle I own. Aluminum sheet would make some nice inner fenders and cure the rain/leaves/dirt.. hmm...

TPI383- I don't know where that camaro will be drawing air into the engine- I've heard that having an open engine bay like my car or that camaro will create a vacume and actually try to suck air out of the engine, thus creating a lean condition at speed. I don't know how much truth there is to this on 3rdgen's because these cars sit pretty low and block most air that would enter SaY- a 70's car with similar tube frontend.

Meatwad- The stock fenders, battery trays, radiator/headlight support, "outer frame rails" don't weight that much- If I had to guess the tube style frontend might save 20-30lbs. tops. I also got rid of the heater box, core, etc. and will run a small electric heater with rainx anti fog incase I need a little defrost on a cold summer morning.

-Ben

1983Fbody

ah stephen you beat me too it!

Apeiron

A shock only dampens out the motion of the springs. A strut also has to partially support the weight of the car.

Take a shock out and the car will sit at the same height but will ride terribly. Take out a strut, and you won't be going far.

Also, take a look at where the force is transmitted into the frame at the top of the front springs, compared to the rear springs. Right into the strut mount.

1983Fbody

Have you had the springs out of a car before? strut or shock type suspension- it will still hit the ground at least bottom out the suspension.. Or driven a car with completely worn out shocks/struts? THis "strut holds the weight of the car" theory could also be applied to say.. the sway bar? I'm sure if I hit a pot hole while rounding a tight corner the sway bar is mathematically supporting the weight of the vehicle at some point? Sorry, maybe I'm just having trouble picturing this because of my rhedneck background afterall, I am a yocum, right, spartyon??

Is it right to say that the strut acts as an upper control arm AnD a shock? so it sees' more stresses than if it was a shock on a double Aarm setup?

1983Fbody

Ok, it's making a little more sense now..

Apeiron

THat's pretty much it.

Part of what I said before about supporting the weight of the car isnt' quite right. I was thinking of a real Macpherson strut suspension when I said it instead of the bastardized version these cars have.

1983Fbody

Okay you've got the gears spinnin' in my head again, which is kooL-

I know 3rd gen's were some of the best handling - if not the best - handling cars of the 80's according to magazine lore. What are the shortcomings? Or did I just find it, the strut mounts? I really need to pic up one of those suspension handbooks I see in jegs and summit if I keep messing with this kinda stuff. For now though I'd just like to fix this frontend up!

When I hit a bump-
Most of the stress, force, movement imparted on the strut tower is going to be trying to force the strut mount UP and IN towards the engine, correct? that's the way I vision the aarm to be moving anywayz.. so it would be best to concentrate on reinforcing that area the most while trying to distribute the shock to other areas from that point.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

That was just Spartyon's jab about our awesome neighbors. We get to see a lot of interesting things out here. We live in red neck central (no broadband offered unless you want to pay $55 /month to phone company). LOL, we're surround'd by amish and farmland. Nothing really surprises me anymore, if it's using a car to push down a tree right next to your house... etc.

But I'm getting off topic. I would recommend a inner liner at the very least. Just in case you were thinking about doing fiberglass it would have to be an attachment since fiberglass to steel contact with bondo will eventually crack overtime.

Apeiron

There are cornering forces to consider too.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Uh, if it's trying to suck air <i>out</i> of the engine, wouldnt that create a rich condition?

1983Fbody

Should have some newer pic's after this weekend, hopefully the pipe bender has shown up by now (two weeks waiting..). I might just cut out the two square tubes and do something similar to the camaro for that area. I like the looks of that setup better, not to mention it will be stronger. Still, with as much effort he has put into that design I hate to copy the guys work so I'll try and do something a little different with the tubing angles or something.

creating a rich condition?
I'd think it would, I'm sure they said it actually sucked air out of the motor though. Now that I think about it I find that statement really far fetched, no way any under the hood air turbulence would over power the suction from a BBC piston dropping down. Maybe they should have said it limits the available air for the engine? - not actually sucking it out of the intake tract, etc..

I'm a little too defensive sometimes, It's bad enough I'm profiled 'cause my daily driver is a 4wd el camino- a red neck stereotype I guess. I don't mind playin' along a little bit though, 'git er dun' We use a bulldozer to pull trees away from cabins/houses all the time. The one thing that really says I live in the "sticks" has to be the snowmobile my dad's friend made a couple summers back. With atv tires, an axle, and a 440 free air w/comet clutch. I got scared at 55mph on that thing and let off. I guess he put a fan on it and let his kid run it through the 4th of July parade before it blew up from the heat, shoulda went liquid cooled@! lol

-Ben

FirehawkSS

iTrader: (2)

Dude you are taking the long way around on this one. You are putting far too much work into this project and its not worth it. If you are going to hack the crap out of the car you should just retro fit a corvette unequal lenght double a-arm front suspension into your bird. This is the best type of suspension you can have. Far superior to the modified macpherson strut that our birds have on them.

If you want to make the stock suspension better the best youre gonna do is a strut tower brace and a wonder bar. The crappy flimsy sheetmetal that is used stock on these cars acts as a shear panel and actually gives the shock tower mount pretty good support. The only place it needs more support is with the strut tower brace. You could go the long way around if you want but why when the parts are all ready out there.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Heres the rest of the pic's everyone is missing...

AGAIN. This car is NOT finished. The under hood is gona be redone in Sheetmetal.

A 32V Twin Turbo NorthStart motor will rest on a Tubular K member and A arms also....
http://www.cecoatings.com/images/oth...p/000_0324.jpg

FirehawkSS

iTrader: (2)

Looks awesome. Keep it up!

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Actually in my Barry Grant book they do mention problems from air sweeping over the carb after a cowl hood installation without an air pan. Something about it can acutally siphon fuel out of the boosters and away from the butterflies. I might dig out the exact statement later today.

--Edit--

Demon Carbuertion by Ray T. Bohacz page 137-

"For the best result with a hood scoop or external air intake system, it needs to be sealed to the carburetor. If this is not done, the air will flow across the top of the carburetor and away from the airhorn assembly. If the air is forced past the carburetor, it can cause a siphoning of fuel, making tuning very difficult. Windshield snorkels are especially notorious for this unless the forward facing section is sealed....."

bottledbird68

I'm not normally a big camaro fan, but every now and then one comes along that I fall in love with. That there is one of them
As a side note, now I really can't wait to get the ZO6 wheels on my formula....

1983Fbody

Here's an updated pic-


I will have to get some close ups with the fenders off, you can see I cut out the thin walled square tubing and borrowed a pipe bender from a buddy (ours is on back order). I messed up on the drivers side, one of the pipes is in the way of the brake booster so I'll have to chop that out and bend up another one, repaint it and then finally be done with it!

1983Fbody

Here's sorta what the front will look like... I'm not sure if I like the "pissed off fish" look-

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

1983Fbody

I guess that's what I get for posting that pic.. anywayz not to stray off topic too far- What do you think of the work on the strut towers?

Rather than try to fit the brake booster back in there I'm converting to a manual brake setup. I've been contemplating this for awhile, just wasn't sure until now.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Back From the Dead.......

anything new with your car?

AutoX86Z28

yea i saw the pics of the finished front end, but i wanna see some of under the hood.

how much weight do you think you lost?

im considering on doing this with my "race car"

AutoX86Z28

also what size tubing did you guys use for this ?

PhLaXuS

Haha! I know this one! A few years ago, I had this total POS car that sat over the south Florida grass for about two years before I got it. Due to this, most of the really important metal rusted out. I got a call to meet a girl in South Beach and I was on my way home to get ready. About 2/10th of a mile before I got home, the right upper strut mount cracked off the car!

So I get home and assess the situation: It didn't look so bad at first (and maybe it wasn't). Now, I'm a guy...so of course I had to meet the girl and this was my only ride. I get on I-95 south and everything's cool for about the first half of the drive...then...I had to hit my brakes. The car wanted to go into a counter-clockwise spin. Fun. From that point on (maybe I broke the upper mount completely off?), the car only drove in large arcs -- trying to push me off the side of the road.

Since I was pretty close anyway, I met the girl and drove back home @ 3:00AM the next morning. Man was I wired, it was like surgery trying to keep that thing on the road.

When I got home, I saw the wheel had ~30* camber which was dynamically changing as the strut got knocked around the strut tower.

So...yes, I am a total tool for not understanding the importance of the upper mount, but it was a learning experience. NOTE: This was before I was into cars, so I was a bit aloof at the time.

Apeiron

As long as this is back from the dead... He's talking about a snorkel or "ram air" scoop hood, not a cowl hood.

1983Fbody

I posted a few pic's of the bodywork I've been doing lately, haven't had a chance to do much else. Made a different hood skin out of carbonfiber/ kevlar, the pic is with the steel hood..also installed a jegster adj. TA. I haven't put the car on the scale since the lighter hood. I weighed it several times before the new hood. With the lighter hood it should be about 3400 with me, full tank of gas, two large subs, amps, and a box of tools.



steel tube 1" by 1/8" wall would be close, I just bought some pipe that matched the rollcage size.

I don't think I lost more than 30lbs off the frontend, using less tubes and a design like the white camaro would probably drop another 20lbs?

PhLaXuS

I like the looks of the front end. Kinda like a BMW mixed with w 4th gen.

1983Fbody

Thanks! I plan on making the radiator hole a little wider and welding up some kind of small tube aluminum grill for the opening. All of the frontend work has been holding up well, the only thing that has me worried is the profab a-arms. I'll have to beef those up this winter I think.

I would have done things differently, there's a tube fronthalf available from coleman racing for 600.00 plus aarms, etc. would have been easier and cheaper though probably heavier the coleman setup would be more rigid. I could have went with the jegster style front as well for all the money invested into the stock suspension on my car. The jegster is more of a drag style suspension, lighter for sure. So if anyone plans on going into this much work, consider buying a prefabbed front or graft in a C5 front suspension? There's better ways to spend time and money, I just didn't want to do any measuring that involved more than a tape measure. By replacing the fenders one tube at a time the stock suspension geometry was for the most part retained. The alignment guy was able to use factory specs which was a bonus, no spacers or hours spent on the alignment rack getting the angles right. The strut mounts ended up pretty close to factory placement, one side sits about 3/4" higher than the other, I could have elongated the holes if needed wasn't really necessary though. I put roughly 3500 miles on the car before I even took it in for alignment.

edit- here's a couple more pics..
Old bumper cover, good view of the suspension..

Dash and autometer ultralite guages..

Out having some fun..

the first attempt at a rear roll pan and the rough finished cf/'glass fenders..

FirehawkSS

iTrader: (2)

Well I'm impressed by all the work you've done. It looks like its coming together very nicely. Tell us a little about the ride quality and if you notice a big change after doing these mods. And I hope you beat that mustang in the picture LOL!

Red Devil

I hope you never get in a head-on collision.

rocluvr0013

That goes for any third gen owner....

Zedsled

Good job on doing all the work..but personally i think the Sunfire lights and turn down exhaust tips have gotta go!


Make the rear end accept Corvette tail lights and you'd really throw some people off..The side profile reminds me alot of a C5..maybe it's just the "wagon wheel"(as i've heard them called) rims. but it looks pretty Corvetteish in the rear.

1983Fbody

Ride quality, I am pleased with the ride it's not that bad at all considering the ride height, shocks, etc. The jegster tq arm and removing the rubber spring isolators are the only mods I would consider going without (if ride quality is a major concern). It's comfortable on long hauls and the cornering is unreal- more than I expected from the mods! The car handles so much differently now, all the suspension work makes the car feel under-powered in the corners. The mustang won by a half car length at the 1/4! Things would have been different with the bottle

The sunfire lights will stay, it was too much pita working them in! The turn downs won't be on for too much longer, no worry there. I wanted to get a C5 rear panel with lights off of ebay they make them in fiberglass so it would be easy enough, cost would be around 250.00 last time I checked. I would really like to swap the whole C5 rear cover and lights just trim and mold to fit. As it is I have my hands full with the rest of the body work (cf doors, gfx) and my dad's getting sick of all the dust in his garage. It's still a possibility though, I can't see the car being ready for paint till next spring at the earliest.