So. I was under my car, looking at the front end stuff, and I determined that it doesn't look all too hard to replace with the front end in the air. The rearend stuff doesn't look to hard to replace either. My question is this though: Where to use poly, where to use rubber, where to use other? Assuming a totally stock-style suspension, no aftermarket parts. Transmission Mount: Poly. Hands down. AFAIK, solid will crack the housing, and binding is not an issue. Engine Mount: Solid or Poly. Depends on how much you want to feel your engine. Torque Arm: Poly. It doesn't move, just lets the torque arm slide in and out. Keep it greased. Would Del-Alum bushings be a good/bad idea here? Panhard bar: Some people say poly binds, others say poly's fine. Any definitive answer? Lower Control Arms: I've heard a lot of people say that rod ends on one side and poly on the other, but with a stock suspension would you want rubber on one end and poly on the other? Sway Bars: They don't seem like they move much, so I'd venture a guess on poly, maybe even Del-Alums? End links: Everyone says poly, but they also say that the hardest is the best. I guess the 1lE links are nylon. So Del-Alums are the hardest I can think of. They'd be good here? A-Arm bushings: Poly or rubber? Can't really find a definitive answer here either. Tie-Rod Boots: Seems that you'd want these to be able to move, and I know new moog parts come with their Thermoplastic bushings, so just leave those as is until another rebuild? Ball Joint Boots: Similar here. I would love commentary on this. Anyone has anything to say about which bushings should go where and why would be appreciated. I'd even edit the thread to add in new information. Thanks for all of your help!

Im interested to see some answers too.

As for the rear LCA's, have you looked into the tubular ones Hotpart makes? They use a special poly bushing that *supposedly* fixes the problem.

Well, eventually I'm gonna get some Spohn double rod ended LCA's. But that's in the future. Was wondering what I could do with the stock stuff.

I used poly on everything except the front A-arms. For those I used Napa Chassis rubber. Feels nice, street driven car. Also went with stock replacement rubber strut mounts.

i went with poly everything the only rubber left on my car are the motor mounts and when i drop in the 383HSR thats gona be poly too. the poly made a big diff in performance and i can live with the squeeks. as far as performance goes, poly on stock stuff is fine if u want more performance but the stock suspension flexes so much increases will be minimul. if u want softest ride posible get a caddy... softest on a 3rd gen without performance keep it rubber, next step up is poly, then comes poly one side and sperical end on the other... esp in the rear LCA;s and panhard rod. (i have an adjustable UMI panhard rod one side spherical end) and hand made tubular LCA's with poly. max for the street is poly on the frame side and sperical on the other... once u go to spherical on both sides its gona be rough shake ur teeth ride.

sperical on both ends would be good for track use. poly isnt bad for the street but the best for the street would be poly at the frame and sperical.

big diff when i did front control arms with poly. of course everything is done on my car except the strut tower brace and tubular tq arm... i got the jegster shorty tubular tq arm ready for the engine swap and im making my own strut brace. this thing corners like a beast

Eh. Willie ran spherical everything. I'm gonna dynamat the car. I don't care about noise. :P

But this is to get everything to a good state of being. And I know some people say "Poly everything" but is that really a good idea? I know with the end links I'm gonna find whatever's hardest and use it, because no matter what sway bars I run, the end links are the same. But I don't want poly bind in any of the suspension parts, so I'd use rubber there. I just don't know what will bind.

ive heard that the LCA's bind in side to side movements and thats what causes the rear to whip back and loose traction. panhard rod doesnt. and i would think the tq arm would bind as well... i would think of it as a suspension part that is design to take a straight on force like the LCA and then put a sideways force on it.... maybe

AFAIK, the torque arm only has significant movement forwards and backwards while the LCA's and the panhard handle the left to right movement of the rear. Could be wrong though.

Are Del-a-Lums used on anything other than A-arms?

JamesC

Just put in a new Rear End in mine finally. Used poly on everthing to include installing Hotchkis control arms, edelbrock torque arm, and pan hard bar. Really stiffened up everything nicely. I really couldn't believe the factory stuff was so weak that you can actually twist it with you hands when it was in the car.

Hell I just replaced my torque arm mount with a ES mount, the tranny mount with a NAPA rubber mount and my ride quality has DRASTICALLY improved. But I could live the rest of my life and not replace the torque arm mount again, that sucked.

Hey Robertfrank,

I cant seem to send you a PM, so I was wondering how you liked your Powertrax Locker? There was a thread on it a few days ago, and everybody had mixed opinions. But I dont think anybody had actually tried it in an f-body. Maybe you could answer there as not to hi-jack this thread any more.

Sorry, to the origional poster for that...

Are they even used on those anymore? I tried like crazy last year to get my hands on a set. The e-mail and phone numbers from their site didn't work and Thunderracing didn't carry them anymore. So I just gave up and got a set of poly from Energy Suspension. Haven't installed them yet though so if anyone's got a line on some Del-a-lums let me know.

Oops. I meant to quote James C's post about the Del-a-lum bushings.

Del-A-Lums on the A-arms, rod end or heavy duty or HotPart on the LCAs, and poly on everything else. May squeak. Some does, some do not. Avoid colored poly is what I've heard. I think you can still get Del-A-Lums. I hope you can...

Yup. That's right. I don't know if the torque arm will do it or not. It's rubber.
My car did the whole whipping things a few times. It was interesting

Hey slow check your PM's

Go here for Del-a-Lums:

http://www.globalwest.net/

JamesC

hahaha yea i never wanna do a tq arm mount again! that suckedddd. thats why i got a jester shorty

yea stay away from colored poly.... the black has graphite impregnated in it so it helps with the squeeks. thats all i have in my car and its not bad at all.

and yea robertfrank!!! let us kno bout the locker... i WANT ONE!!! im sick of posi. ive contacted them bout there locker a year back and i'll prob be getting one. course by then i'll prob have installed a ford 8.8"

Several members have mentioned poly and squeaking, but I've never experienced it. Check my Car Details below for my set-up.

JamesC

I have "colored" poly, and it doesn't squeak. Only have it in my tranny mount and torque arm though. I greased that stuff up REALLY good. I got 'em in red back when I wanted to get all of the aftermarket parts in red, now I've changed my mind and am going to get everything in black. Looks more stealth I figure.

Eventually I'm gonna go rod ended on everything and then every 50k just drop the $400 or whatever it'll be on new rod ends. Looks like I'm gonna start buying poly everything other than the LCA's. Just refresh them with new rubber until I can afford a set of rod-ends.

Oh, and what about end links? Are there harder materials than the poly? Like the 1LE nylon?

I've used both. I prefer the ES poly because I wasn't particularly satisfied with the GM version's fit. The latter seems to allow the end link rod to rub the a-arm, which elongates the hole. I suggest that that's the case with most a-arms (I had mine fixed).

JamesC

I went to their website when I tried to buy them and none of their contac information worked. I will try again to see if it will work now, 'cause I haven't installed the ES bushings that I bought yet. As soon as I get a break in my schedule I am going to finally install all the front suspension parts I have sitting in my garage (new ball joints, Spohn upper strut tower mounts, ES sway bar bushings, & TDS wonderbar). I'm looking forward to the project.

OK. Just tried their phone number. It works now. Don't I look like an idiot? Anybody interested in some brand new ES A-arm bushings? Still in the box.

Yes

JamesC

I have stated it in the past and I hate this damn thing. In straight line performance it's great, it works as advertised. But I like to do some corner carving now and then and it makes that nigh impossible. On turns it clicks and pops and sometimes if I brake and turn hard enough I get treated to a big hard BANG in the rear end. So If I had a choice when I got this damn thing I would have spent the extra coin and got a trutrac or a real posi.

lockers are for the drag strip...i wouldn't think it would be safe at all at any reasonable speed in a turn.

oh... i just hate how posi's burn/wear out. not to mention they come burnout challenged after a while. id rather a locker and then just not worry bout it but yea i heard about lockers popping and clicking in the turns which isnt cool

The only other good thing I do have to say about the locker is it's strong as hell and even though it's been in my car for 3 years and taken alot of abuse. it still looks like a just put it in there. i guess by now I have just gotten used to it. The way I drive now with it in I really can't tell it's there anymore unless I turn real hard.

So, I'm going to throw in a set of SFCs in my car when it warms up, and this thread has me thinking about replacing my LCA bushings while I'm there - because I have better things to upgrade for now.

We all know the factory pieces are weak and can flex. I also know (you guys may not have seen this) that UMI has recommended people with street cars double poly LCAs. Here's my question: think it would be a good idea to replace my 20 year old rubber LCA bushings with a nice set of poly?

Sorry to steal the thread a little bit, but it's part of what the OP was asking.

The problem with poly in the LCA's is that poly will cause binding in the motion that they travel in. Which is bad. I think you want poly at the diff, but something that doesn't bind on the body.

Since the LCA's are SO EASY to get to, if you have the cash, get a set of rod-end LCA's. Steve Spohn told me that they'd last about 50k in a street car, and then you spend the $25/end and get new ones. Yea. That's a $100 maintenance down the road, but it's not terribly hard to do, and how often do you put 50k on your odo?

Edit:
And if you can't afford the rod-ends, I dunno wether to go poly or rubber. I'll probably wind up just doing them in rubber and saving the $10 I'd spend on poly and put it towards rod-ends. I'd rather have no bind and a little softer bushing than suspension bind and a little harder. But I honestly don't know which way is right.

Me either. I did poly throughout. To my knowledge, I've never experienced binding, but then I don't drive as if I'm on a full-out road course either. For my type of driving, I have no complaints, whatsoever.

JamesC

All your questions about poly will be answered in the link provided. There is a lot of info...so start reading.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70313

Doesn't seem like a lot of info. Just a lot of opinions.

This suspension guru says this.
This suspension guru says that.
"Real autocrossers use rod-ends!"
"Real autocrossers have no need for anything more than rubber." O.o

That board seems more catty than this board. That's pretty bad. I'm just gonna do poly everything except the LCA's, then replace those with rod ends when I get the chance. Then slowly replace everything else. Might do solid motor mounts though.

The reason that the board seems chatty is becasue there are drag racers, autoxers, road racers, etc. And some of them do that full time. So you get different opinions for different uses.

I like that board because you get answers in 10 mins no matter what question you post. This board it can take you up to ...oh wait I have had threads go unanswered on this board. A lot more adults on that site also.

I like thirdgen for the technical articles and troubleshooting. NastyZ for everything else.

But if you really were a serious racer most bushings would be solid..road car not racing rubber, in between poly. If you are not a professional dont worry about it, just go poly. I went all poly, but when I go for subframe connectors I have to get solid body mounts..but that is down the line. That would be for my 78 so dont worry about that.

Not chatty. Catty. As in cat fights. But yea. There's a lot of stuff there. Food for thought.

Yea, I read, "body mounts" and I'm like... "Third gens don't have body mounts. " O.o I have a buddy whose building up a '79. The late second gens are harder to find parts for than our third gens! It's ridiculous.

I had dual poly LCAs from Spohn for a while. I experienced the bind that has been discussed on several occasions. Mosty in hard turning situations such as tight off-ramps. That's why I built my combo ended LCAs (rubber on the body and rod end on the axle). You get the best of both worlds, in my opinion.

My mistake I read too fast. But yeah it can be a pain for my 78 getting parts. The only advantage I have is not worrying about emissions for it.

But my 3rd gen is so easily upgradeable suspension wise. @nd gen is a pain, you have to be more of a fabricator to get things to work rather than the fun bolt on stuff for the 3rd gens.

1. What is the difference between poly and Del-a-lum?
2. Is it cheaper to build your own rod end LCA's or buy them?

For autocrossing I was thinking the best thing to do on a tight budget would be box the stock panhard rod (free), build some rod end LCA's ($300 I think I read somewhere), put on new springs (I think $200), install some Koni yellows ($700), Spohn/hotpart strut mounts ($250), Spohn/UMI sfc ($200), and poly on everything else ($250). Right? How much do you think all that would cost me... about $1900 just for suspension upgrade?

I think I experienced bind one time while autocrossing. I was turning to the right and it felt like the back end was about to break loose then it just whipped back so the car was straight. My passenger wasn't expecting such a violent whiplash effect to take place and smacked his head on the plastic molding at the top of the window. He was fine since we all had helmets on but I can't believe the plastic didn't crack... I mean the sound it made... such a load cracking sound...

ive had poly on my LCA on both sides... and i have yet to have bind. my cars rear breaks loose so frigin fast i cant expereince bind lol. i somtimes get alil nutty and take corners really hard and ive had no probs so i would say that poly on both sides are fine. dont stick poly on stock LCA... the stocker twist in ur hands... poly wouldnt make much a diff since the LCA will flex more.

poly should be used at the body side to help absorb road vibration and spherical ends at the other(rear end side)... most daily drivers will not use or need spherical ends on both sides due to excessive road noise and vibrations... bascially it would suck on a daily driver. could even elongate the bolt holes or weaken metal.

im not sure if u want to run solid motor mounts.... they are extremely loud on our cars. many ppl have tried and have switched to poly... the engine creats alot of vibrations that are absorbed by the stock rubber mounts... when u swtich to the stiffer poly... the engine is restricted more in movement which increases throttle response etc due to less engine twist... but when poly is used it increases engine vibration into the cabin and throughout the car. GMHP did this to a 89 formula and they hated the increased engine vibration/noise and stated that they where gona go back to rubber. course they are older than ur average 3rd gen owner. solid mounts will totally kill any engine movement. u are guarennteed lots and lots of engine noise and vibration. this can break lots of parts (windshield,ttops, fatige metal, loosen bolts, etc) u want the engine to flex and u want more than just a tranny mount to help absorb engine vibration. id say the most radical to do would be poly everything, i dont believe that any sold mount should be used in the drivetrain components... but thats just my .02

I think the Del A Lum is a multi-piece bushing, but I'll have to look into it some more. I used to know exactly, but I forget things often.
Let me find the page where I listed the prices, but I think it's cheaper to DYI.
That sounds like a good plan, as long as you have already replaced all the stock bushings and anything else that will have worn out. Don't forget some good rubber(tires, not condems ), too. All the modding in the world is about useless without it. Just remember that all those mods will change the class your vehicle runs in and make it harder to be competitive (time-wise).
What you decribe sounds alot like what happened in my car with the old Spohn LCAs. I knew to expect it, so my friend in the car was ready though...lol
If you haven't encountered the binding, maybe you are pushing the car too much for the set-up/balance of your car, or you have sh*tty tires, or you don't know where/how to keep your foot out of it when cornering, or any combination of the three. If almost all auto-crossers and road course racers say it's not a good idea, just because you have it on your car doesn't make it a good one

While I agree that something softer than a rod end should be on the body side of the LCA to absorb road noise (such as a nice heavy duty rubber bushing), I don't think that a rod end on the axle causes excessive road noise and vibrations. I have it on my car, and I drive the car every day. I've had the stockers and the dual polp ended LCAs, and I prefer the rod/rubber end LCAs I have now to either set-up for both comfort, and performance... as all of my friends who've ridden in the car enough to know the difference.

With this, I agree completely.

The following is included in the link I provide above for all those who are interested:

http://www.globalwest.net/Del-a-lum%...bal%20West.htm

JamesC